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Wow, I don't even remember that or I just filed it away as one of the many reasons I have never liked Jo-Jo. As much as others have talked about Caila's problems, Jo-Jo to me has always come across as desperate. I also cringed when she said that Ben made her feel safe. Safe from what? It reminded me of when I got married, and our minister wanted to include as part of our ceremony a passage about it being a man's job to take care of his wife. I refused and told him that we take care of each other and are equal partners, so he rewrote the ceremony to include that. As far as wanting people to be jealous of her relationship? How juvenille. I have many girlfriends (both single and married) who have told me either that they wish they could find a guy like my hubby or were married to a guy like my hubby. It has never made me feel happy that they don't have what I have - it has made me feel blessed that I am lucky to be married to such a wonderful man. As far as Jo-Jo's look, I agree with others who have said she needs to get a new hair style. I detest middle parts that are crooked and Jo-Jo's hair part in the last epi was jutting out all over the place. When she had her head down when Ben was dumping her all I could think was that she got all dressed up for what might be the day she gets engaged and she couldn't even part her hair straight. Ugh.

Ben and Lauren look very happy to me, and I also loved the families together on ATFR. Though Ben's parents may have had reservations about Lauren I would think that seeing her nice and normal family on the show. as opposed to Jo-Jo's rude, obnoxious brothers made them glad they would be his inlaws as opposed to Jo-Jo's family. Funny that Jo-Jo's brothers were not at the ATFR show (though not unexpected). Mind you even if he had picked Jo-Jo I doubt they would have been there. So Jo-Jo is the new bachlorette. Yawn. I would rather have had Caila even with her problems opening up. At least she brings the pretty. Oh well, I guess as soon as they dangled the bachlorette title in front of Jo-Jo her heart healed pretty quickly. But then I always thought Jo-Jo was more in love with being in love than with Ben. As she said, she was tired of being rejected (to paraphrase). I will try to watch, but if she spends too much time jumping into every Tom, Dick and Harry's arms I am out. Does seem though like she and her family like reality TV life.

AND you would think that would be the father's first question to the person on the phone! They just laid there like it was a situation where the body had already been found and now an arrest has been made, rather than what supposedly happened which was the neighour 'confessed' to killing Adam after he was arrested. So was it just sloppy writing or as we supposed to notice that the scene made no sense given what we have been told so far?

Ugh, just read the link to his appeal posted above. He is way more twisted that they even portrayed on the episode. Wow, this guy was really delusional. I wonder why he didn't speculate that his wife was pregnant with twin girls and give them names? Sheesh, the girlfriend never was pregnant with twins - apparently he just thought wishing it would make it so. But then, he decided they weren't his after all. His girlfriend got off lucky - she may have been his next victim if she decided to pursue child support when he got quickly tired of the idea of the latest R's, Ripley and Raven. Rot, you monster.

As soon as they said at the first of the show that she was pregnant I knew her hubby had killer her. It is pretty much always the hubby when a woman is pregnant. (Or in this case had her killed - result is the same). And I am in no way blaming the victim here but in pretty much every case when this happens the couple has a shaky marriage, and often the guy has cheated. Why do women get pregnant under those circumstances? And yes, I realize that he is half to blame but I just don't get it. Even her friend didn't understand why she didn't just walk away - Lynn said she wanted to save her marriage at all costs. Unfortuntely it cost her her life. Not to say he wouldn't have killed her anyway even if she wasn't pregnant but when the guy is having an affair with someone who is a teenager and that is the age of the new friends he is hanging out with, he isn't looking for more responsiblity. I didn't think his saying her name on the phone call was odd. Often my hubby uses my first name when he leaves a message even though we have pet names for each other. I think it is because he makes so many calls in a day it is just automatic to say his name. He also says his name when he is calling stores to ask a question and the person on the other end has no clue who he is. (My brother also does the same thing). I find it funny but know it is just an automatic habit. What I did find suspicious was the number of calls he made which seems to be a MO for these murderers in order to bolster their alibi. I also hope he rots in jail if for no other reason than he took his 4 year old son into the house knowing that the boy's mother would be in there dead. All to set up his alibi. It seems like maybe the son didn't see anything as he said his father took him out quickly but still - what a disgusting thing to do. But then he killed the kid's mom (not to mention sibling) and took the chance that his son would also grow up without a dad (as he did) if he was caught so I guess I should not be surprised that he would use his own child in that fashion.

Ok, I just can't with Shawn. Why does she keep questioning whether Herb and Nick are a stable couple? Do a little research hon. You would quickly find out that babymama-wannabe was married to her brother in law for a New York minute (and for money to boot). You might even find out that she helped said brother in law change his appearance and hide his identity from, well, pretty much everyone. And while you are at it check out the stability husband-wise of babydaddy- not-so-wannabe. You'd find that he has three children from two different women. You might even find out that he conceived his second child while cheating on his first wife and his third child by cheating on his second wife with his first wife. Oh, and that he was about to remarry his first wife when his second ex wife appeared at the church and ruined the ceremony. Add in another almost wedding where he got left at the alter by his fiance (who was neither his first or second wife), and the fact that Herb and Nick only got together because she was preggers, and you've got a couple that really should not be able to adopt a dog, let alone a kid. You're welcome Shawn.

I have always preferred Lauren to Jo-Jo so I have to say I am surprised by Ben's mother's pick. But I am also surprised that she is so tactless as to actually say which one she prefers. I admit that I haven't watched for several seasons - is this normal? On the other hand maybe she deserves to have her son marry into a family where the brothers are rude control freaks. Birds of a feather....... I always remember the season with Trista and Ryan. I thought for sure she was going to pick Charlie (even though I preferred Ryan) as she gave every indication of leaning that way. Ben has always seemed to be way more into Lauren than Jo-Jo but maybe I (and I presume many others) will be surprised, and he will pick Jo-Jo. If his mother though has influenced his decision based on the flimsy reasons she gave in the clip , Lauren will have escaped the monster in law.

Regarding Lauren H, I liked her on the show up until Leah went to Ben to tell lies regarding Lauren B in hopes of derailing their relationship. From what I could see, Lauren knew exactly why Leah was going to see Ben. That is where she lost my respect. But I didn't for a minute think Lauren H's comment regarding soccer moms had anything to do with race. I am white and would make a terrible soccer mom. I find them to be cliquey and often their whole lives revolve around their kids and schlepping them from one activity to another. Yawn. It brings to mind my hubby's cousin. She and her hubby for several years spent every weekend for six months of the year taking their son to hockey games and tournaments, on top of the weekly practices etc. Then their son decided that he no longer wanted to play hockey at that competitive level. They were devestated - because they would no longer have the other hockey parents to hang out with every weekend. Ugh. I hope Calia is the next bachlorette. As much as I still think some of her 'crying' in the limo was an act (in the replay they showed despite the continual sobbing sounds there were no tears wiped away - in fact her hands were not even at her eyes but at one point were on her forehead) one would think she would have to play the game to some extent to be chosen. And I do think she did like Ben. But most of all I hope she is chosen as I don't like Jo-Jo (either looks or personality wise) and Calia is at least pretty to look at. And I loved her family. Jo-Jo's frightened me except for her dad who I thought was sweet.

That is certainly the only thing that makes sense given the autopsy results. But as others have said there is no way I would convict him based on what we were told in the episode. The insurance money wouldn't convince me since they had insurance on each other and it was taken out after the baby was born - hardly an unusual thing. It sounds like the insurance money was never paid out and I guess won't be until the case is decided? I was surprised to read upthread that he had a first wife in China? Was this brought up on the show (I must have dozed off as I don't remember it). I found that interesting as when he was interviewed and asked why he went to China after Rhonda's death he said he had been there before and liked it. But sounds like he had an ex and a child(ren) there? Given that there were four people who had died on that trail (I think they said within the year that Rhonda died) not to mention how many close calls (like the woman they interviewed) I can't see how he can be convicted with really no evidence. I am puzzled though about the drugs in Rhonda's system. It looks like a fair climb to get to the area where she fell. Who in their right mind would take drugs before going to such a treacherous place? But if he gave her the drugs, why would she consent to going up there knowing she was not feeling 'normal'? I have done quite a bit of hiking (even heli-hiking) and I would never go on a trail that is that narrow with a sheer drop on one side and only a cable to hang onto on the other. Yikes. Edited to add - the missing evidence would seal the deal for me. Just too many unanswered questions as well as seemingly police that wanted to make the case fit their opinion. We certainly see a lot of that when the person is innocent. So while this guy may be guilty evidence tampering is evidence tampering and should not be rewarded.

As others have said, there is no way I could have convicted based on a blind being closed in a picture. Also it would have made sense to me that if the guy was guilty of murdering his girlfriend's parents he was doing it for her, so he would have turned on her for lesser sentence. After all they had split long before he was convicted. But he never did - because he didn't kill the parents in the first place. I am amazed at how many of these shows have a prosecutor and /or police officers that are incapable of admitting they are wrong. It would certainly give me pause if I was living in a jurisdiction where these people had power.

So what is everyone's take on the insta adoption storyline? Will baby mama change her mind and Herb kidnap Sully as a substitute? Is that how they will get rid of Herb? Because she has never and will never be leading lady material. And why does baby mama have such a horrible hairdo? That is how I looked 40 years ago but I can't say I have seen it much since then. Sad that that is my main concern regarding this whole storyline. Thank goodness the judge finally stopped the Newmans from holding her bad taste in lovers over her head. One would think though she would be investigated both for letting Adam go free and giving Noah a slap on the wrist. I don't care though as long as we are no longer expected to believe that anyone would care who the judge slept with years ago. Unfortunately (or fortunately?) I ff through much of the other storylines so really don't know or care what is going on with Billy, Phyllis, Swiss Miss, Dummer, the Hamiltons, etc. The only couple who have any chemisty at the moment are Ashley and Dr Neville. ED and MEK are magical.

The only performances I liked tonight were Trent, Avalon and Tristan. Though Tristan's age really showed when she was crying because Scott didn't like her song choice. Aren't she and Lee the only really young contestants left? After the discussion of Keith eating cauliflower, when I saw that La'Porsha had dyed her hair black all I could think when she was singing was that it was a good thing she didn't go for a platinum blonde colour or Keith may have tried to snack on it. Dalton is normally my fav but I hated his performance tonight. But then again I hate that song. I did really like Harry's performance though.

My now hubby and I never discussed this before we got engaged. He found out after that I had no intention of changing my name, and he was a bit miffed. I told him that after so many years of having the same name (45 when I got engaged but truthfully I felt the same at 20) I saw no reason to change it, but if after the same number of years of having the same name he would like to change his last name to mine, to be my guest. He never mentioned it again. I have always felt this way about that tradition. By the time I married my father had passed, so had he been alive since I was the only daughter I likely would have done this but for his sake not mine. But since he was gone I walked down the aisle alone which would have been my preference. I am amazed how many people asked me though who was going to give me away. I told them all that no one was giving me away as I wasn't anyones to give away. (My mother in law to be actually said "You can do that?" Sheesh!). I have a couple of friends who have been married multiple times, one twice and the other three times. It amazed me that they went through the whole 'father giving away the bride' thingy at all of their weddings. My friend who was marrying for the third time had her father tell her that he hoped this was the last time because he was tired of them continually giving her back - lol.

I am totally amused at how many people are up in arms about Bambi stealing a potato, but say nothing about the often badly behaved Portia. At dinner she was not sitting in her chair properly but was standing on it, didn't appear to be eating and had no table manners whatsoever. And as we have seen in other epis, she rarely does what Kyle asks her to do. I'd think having a well behaved child is more important than a well behaved dog. But since Kyle is lax with Portia why wouldn't she be with Bambi? (Though attempting to take the potato out of Bambi's mouth was more of a correction than I have ever seen her attempt with her child).

The biggest take away I got from that epi was that Bambi is so much cuter than Portia. And has more personality. I know it isn't PC to talk about kids but that is how I see it. I actually really enjoyed Erika shutting down LisaV and I am not an Erika fan. And I see LisaV is back to looking a decade older than she is. The only time she has looked her age of 55 was last week at the spin class. The hideous makeup she usually wears does her no favours. I know that Erika and Kathryn were being filmed when Erika made the comment regarding LisaV in the previous epi, so she had to know that it would be used. My beef with Kathryn is that from what I remember Kathryn told Erika that she wanted to be her friend, wanted to get to know her and that she could tell her anything. So when Erika does, Kathryn does the one thing that would make someone doubt that you really want to be their friend. So I don't blame Erika (can't believe again that I am defending her!) for being annoyed and I think Kathryn is rather dumb. I ff'd past Kyle and Kim. I just don't care about their relationship or where Kim is in her life at the moment.

How so? A dress on the floor means nothing to me. Why would someone want to sleep in a dress? Each had other clothes with them that they were wearing in the morning. It isn't like the FS is a surprise so each had other clothes for that purpose. Or they could have slept in bra and panties, or in the buff. Doesn't mean they had intercourse. Like saber5055 said above, I have done it myself. It reallly isn't that hard (no pun intended).

Yes, I realized that after I posted and as another poster pointed out that was the whole reason for Mary to tell Bertie. If he was just a lowly agent she would not care. But I still do believe that the scene was not believable that Bertie would telll Mary and Tom before Edith's parents. And that he would announce it without OK'ing it with Edith first. He has been portrayed up until that point as a much more thoughtful person.

By 'shed an actual tear' I meant tear(s) rolling down her cheeks. Maybe she is just a very controlled, pretty crier. When I cry I produce many tears and over that length of time and would also need to blow my nose a couple of times. But maybe the wet eyes and cheeks were actually producer driven (eye drops). As others have said maybe this was her tryout for the Bachelorette. I wonder why TPTB changed the order that the visits were shown? That Jo-Jo was second makes more sense though. (And how does the poster who posted this know?). I think he got caught up in the moment and told Jo-Jo, whereas I think he really does love Lauren. (And think it is quite possible that they have actually said those words to each other before). Or the Jo-Jo scene is a set up to create drama, and maybe Jo-Jo was promised the Bachelorette spot to play along. I don't know if I could watch if Jo-Jo as the next bachelorette. All that running and jumping into arms makes me stabby. I predict that Ben proposes to Lauren and then has to go into a witness protection type program to escape the wrath of Jo-Jo's brothers. Edited to add: why do a lot of people assume that all three women had intercourse with Ben? Don't all the last women standing (so to speak) spend the night in the FSs? I haven't watched for several years but they certainly used to. One can certainly spend the night without 'going all the way' to use an oldfashioned term. Also isn't this pretty much the only time they get to spend alone without cameras in tow? One would think at this point in the game each would want that time for that reason alone.

I thought that Lauren B is 25? And that Jo-Jo and Calia are both a year younger at 24. They are all too young (including Ben) but I don't think any of the contestants are as young as 22.

I just don't believe that Calia was all that into Ben, let alone in love with him. She spent at least 5 minutes boo-hooing in the car yet didn't shed an actual tear. Not one. The whole surprise visit/breakup seemed to be producer driven, and someone in the car really should have put some eye drops in Calia's eyes to make the crying look at least a little bit real. I will admit that I haven't watched a Bachelor season in awhile, but aren't there always two women that the guy is in love with and are in love with him? Though I don't recall them declaring their love to each other before at this point. However I have to say I really don't see the connection between Ben and Jo-Jo. Maybe that is because I don't like Jo-Jo and think she resembles a pug (as I believe poster JudyObscure pointed out previously) but in their kissing scenes they just do not appear to be sincere feelings but rather an act for the camera. Could their mutual 'I love you's' also be producer driven? Has their ever been a bachelor season where the last two women standing don't claim to love the bachelor? Otherwise how can you have 'the most shocking rose ceremony ever' if there is only one women he claims to love and one women that claims to love him? I just can't imagine that he will end up with Jo-Jo and her dysfunctional family. And of course I figured the double rainbow that came out during Ben and Lauren's date while they were in the water is a sign. Even the producers can't rig that. But then I have always been a Lauren fan. Though at this point Ben might be right - maybe he doesn't deserve her?

Good point sandyskybue regarding Bertie announcing their engagement at breakfast without Cora and Robert there. And maybe this is a more recent custom (or at least more recent than the mid 1920s) but would Bertie not have discussed this with Robert beforehand? And especially since at the time he made the announcement the family did not know that he was in line for a title - he was simply an agent. The whole scene does not ring true but you are right, Mary would not have said what she did in front of her parents so JF had to write an unrealistic scene to ruin Edith's happiness. I am starting to think though that Edith might be better off if Bertie doesn't return. She will have her magazine and a wonderful, progressive life in London. If she marries Bertie she will be stuck carrying on the traditions of a life that for many is going by the wayside. Albeit on a grander scale than her sister. On the other hand Mary will be stuck at Downton trying to keep it afloat and married to someone that despite taking him as her hubby she will never consider her equal. Either way I think Edith will come out ahead of Mary in the end, but I won't mind if she stays foot loose and fancy free in London.

Your post reminded me growing up in southern Ontario. Despite the fact that where I lived was further south than all or part of a dozen or so states, we would often see Americans in the summer pulling trailers carrying snowmobiles and expecting to find snow, just because they were crossing into Canada. I kid you not. Leo seems to be just about as bright.

I am thrilled that Spotlight won for best picture, and that Mark Rylance won for his wonderful performance in Bridge of Spies. (I would have been happy with a Mark Ruffalo win as well). I don't care about Leo one way or the other. I did love a comment I read today though that last night he was playing the part of someone who is an expert on climate change - lol. Many Canadians, myself included, gave him the side eye when he described the 'terrifying' evidence he saw of climate change while filming The Renevant in Alberta when in fact what he was witnessing was a perfectly normal weather condition called a Chinook. In any case I will take Leo seriously when he stops flying on private jets and holidaying on mega yachts. I detest when Hollyweird elites preach to us little people. I thought Chris Rock did a pretty good job, though I do think carrying the diversity problem through the whole show diluted the cause a bit. The best part though was his dissing of the insufferable Jada so that was a big plus in my book.

Oh I totally agree that they would encourage the stupid, over the top applicants. I was thinking more of the ones who actually do have a good product but value their companies at such outrageous numbers that the sharks cannot possibly invest. Seems like a waste of time for the sharks and pitchers, and an annoyance for the viewer at times.

It seems like more and more ST (and Dragon's Den in Canada) is featuring businesses that have barely gotten off the ground (if at all) and in addition the pitchers are making ridiculous claims of valuations. Do they not get any guidance from producers, or never watch the show beforehand to know that they are wasting their time if the sharks think they are out to lunch with their request/valuation? It really makes for an uninteresting show when every shark is out (understandably) from the start due to stupidity and or greed of the pitcher. I think the only reason they were still listening to the tea lady is because she was alone, thin and pretty. She had a terrible presentation so I can't agree it was an 'off day'. She had no focus, which as Robert said normally would have had the sharks shutting her down much sooner than they did. I did laugh at Kevin's comparison of her to a dishwasher (I think it was - I no longer have the show on my PVR). Though Kevin can be mean at least he can also be funny and has a sense of humour even about himself. Mark has none - he can be replaced any time and I would not miss him.