UsernameFatigue

I was actually disgusted with this episode as it seemed to be yet another attempt to point fingers at the parents, twenty years after the fact. I have never believed that John and/or Patsy, or even Burke for that matter were involved. This show just reinforced that opinion for me. Besides the unknown male DNA on JonBenet's PJs, so many other unknowns - the rest of the paintbrush that was never found, the ligature source was never found, the duct tape source was never found, the suitcase, the flashlight that was not theirs, the footprint that could not be identified, etc. No to mention the marks that look like they come from a stun gun on JonBenet. Hardly something the parents would be using on their daughter. But actually the interview with Burke that was for some reason kept secret for 18 years just reinforced it for me. He says that Patsy came into his room saying "oh my gosh, oh my gosh' (I think it was). She was obviously looking for JonBenet when she did not find her in her bed. If she had killed her there would be no reason to go into Burke's room as she would know she was not there. And it isn't like she was trying to create an alibi, as she thought Burke was asleep and did not wake him. Then when he heard his father tell his mother to stay calm and call the police (I think it was along those lines) - again makes total sense and not something they would need to stage, not knowing that Burke was awake and listening. I was totally disgusted with the police woman they interviewed. She said at the first of the show that she came on to defend her police dept as they have been under attack for almost 20 years for doing a sloppy job. Then the show actually reinforces that they did a sloppy job. Sheesh. And she doesn't think the parents would have been convicted but thinks they (or at least Patsy) is guilty. No wonder the Ramsey's were leary of the police. And why would they have hired outside investigators to find the killer if they were the killers? They would have been like OJ and not done a damn thing if they were really guilty as they would know who the killer was. I also was disgusted by Mankiewicz saying that JonBenet's life was not normal due to being in pageants. I don't understand the interest in them, but then where I come from they don't exist. But then again neither does worshiping high school football players and cheerleaders. Obviously Patsy grew up in the pageant culture, and JonBenet seemed to love it so as an interviewer who should be impartial I found his statement to be very unprofessional.

10/10 KungFuBunny. Jules seemed to be proud of how clueless she was as a mother and dependent on the nanny. She even made comments that her own mother didn't have to do certain things, so she should not have to either. And the trip to their McMansion where there was a huge partition in the car separating she and Michael from the kids and nanny? Just plain weird. Add in her comment at the Berkshires where all the ladies were fighting but to her it was the best weekend ever because she was away from her children? Hardly mother of the year material. And many people have commented previously on her continual chatter at being Jewish, but that she often did not follow simple traditions that one would think would be important to someone who talks about her faith often. As far as being a business woman, I don't remember her even talking about her cleanse until she and Michael went to test it. Any business woman I know is in from the ground up and totally involved. We never saw that with Jules, and in fact she said that she never wanted to be a business woman. Seems like it just feel into her lap while she was busy directing the nanny to stand in lines for her. I wish Jules well, but have no interest in seeing her on my screen next season.

Good point about the age of graduation. Where I went to HS (Ontario Canada) at that time there was an optional grade 13 which took the place of the first year of university, so if you wanted to go to university you had to take grade 13. So many were actually 19 when they finished high school depending on when their birthday fell in the year. I didn't think Carole's comment was that big of a deal. I think most people do not think or feel they are as old as they are, and likely Carole having a younger boyfriend contributes to that. I know my mother in law hates being 82 as she feels 60. I at 59 feel like I am still in my 30s (most days). However the Howives lack of maturity is what keeps them on the show. And Jules has certainly shown a lack of maturity in her inability to do simply things related to her children, and whining about how hard life is without a nanny. Pot. Kettle. Black.

You actually proved my point. You got married at 20 and had a child at 26 with one miscarriage earlier. To be a mother at 18 you would pretty much be knocked up in HS and giving birth at graduation, if indeed you even graduated. I too had a few friends who did not go to college and instead got married and were mothers by the time they were 21. Not 18. I don't have any friends who were mothers at 18.

I think the whole thing about Jules being young enough to be most cast members' daughter is just dumb. Even in my generation (I am 59) most of my friends were going to college at 18 and planning a career, not getting married and/or having children right away. In my mother's generation that was common, but things changed alot a mere generation later. But following the line of reasoning that Carole is 18 years older than Jules and could be her mother, Jules herself could be a grandmother, had she had a child at 18 who then had a child at 17. Wadda ya think about that, Bubbe Jules? I find Jules and her continual talk of being Jewish to be more of something she seemed to cling to as an identity for the show, and less something that she seems to really live. Several other Howives have been Jewish but didn't need to talk about it constantly but for Jules, there wasn't a lot else there there. I did find her line at the reunion that she is single now so could date Tom, hilarious. Even if you don't want to date him but just play tonsil hockey Jules, he is available. He could be free to date before the end of the year, and if not pretty much certainly within a couple of years. However one funny line a season is not enough for me to care about Jules sticking around. Maybe when you are older you will be more interesting, Jules. The other funny line was Andy saying how awkward it was on the boat when Sonja and TomCat saw each other. LuLu said something along the lines of what was awkward about it, and Andy said what wasn't? Too funny. At this point though LuLu doesn't care that TomCat is a serial liar. Maybe because LieAnn recognizes a kindred spirit (soulmate and all). Really, in the end those two need to take each other off the market (or as much as either will ever really be off the market) and make the streets safe for the other UES singles.

Lol. As I have said before, this site is way more entertaining than the show itself. I know many people who have never divorced. Two relatives including my brother who have been separated from their exes since 1990, and 1999. They are hardly fucking assholes - lol. If there is no intent to remarry there is no reason to divorce. Bethy's boyfriend and his ex may never divorce if neither plans to remarry. My one relative's ex has been with his current partner since 1999 - they are perfectly happy as is my relative in her relationship. But it is touching that you are concerned about Bethy's future and apparently want her in a happy marriage. BTW, I saw a pic of Bethy and her boyfriend taken a couple of weeks ago. She looked fabulous, and was not wearing a ring on her left hand. I think she was just playing with those whose heads she thought would explode at the site of a rock on her left hand. One of the reasons I get such a kick out of her.

You missed the point - LieAnn claims she did not steal Tom from the woman he was on a date with and take him home. However the woman TomCat was playing tonsil hockey with was responsible for the fact that he could not stay faithful to his fiance 10 days after he got engaged. See the difference? LieAnn - not responsible for what TomCat did. Tonsil hockey partner - totally responsible for what TomCat did. And yes, as you pointed out, TomCat has proven that LieAnn cannot trust him, and she should be worried. And I am sure she is.

I can't believe that no one (at least that I have seen) has posted what I thought was the funniest line of the whole epi, when at the first of the show Andy said hello to Lu and said "This may be your last reunion as a countess." Could he be any more obvious that he doesn't think the wedding is going to take place - lol. I fully expected LuLu to fly off the handle and say "What do you mean, Andy? I have a ring and three dresses!". Nope - I think LuLu is unsure as well. I also loved when she said "Once a countess always a countess" and Carole said "I don't think that is true". Hilarious. I would say from the other Howives' reactions - namely Sonja and LuLu - that Dorinda does do coke. And they likely do as well (or at least LuLu for sure) which is why the topic got shut down. LuLu seemed particularly anxious to get off the topic. And I have no idea why Dorinda thinks her adult daughter (and yes, I thought she moved out too) would be a reason one would believe she doesn't do coke. For all we know Hannah could be her supplier. I love that LieAnn (love that!) once again stated that a man cannot be stolen. But apparently a woman is responsible when an engaged man sticks his tongue down her throat. I am sure that will make it into LuLu's next book. Though I am not sure Tom's last name will give her enough pull to get another book published.

At least once an episode Vicki says something that makes me roll my eyes. There were many times in this epi, but her statement that her and Don's vow renewal didn't work made me laugh out loud as well. The fact that they were both in ongoing long term relationships with other people I am sure had nothing to do with it. Sheesh. She must be seething that Shannon is not only not making David pay forever for his affair, but that they are happier than ever. Not to mention David looked pretty hot getting into that water sans bathing suit. Karma, and all that. I actually like Michael (which would not be hard compared to his sister and mother) and loved the motion he made to Ragey Ryan when Krazy Kelly was droning on. I believe it was meant to signal that KK is a fruit loop, which isn't far from the truth. I also loved Ragey Ryan's reply that it is always something. No kidding. Is it just me or did Briana not seem all that thrilled that RR was back? I think she was happy for her kids (eventually) but I think she quite likes hanging out with her mother sans hubby. They are more alike than the are different. Though I did give her points for rolling her eyes at Kelly in the kitchen as Kelly droned on about something or other. If Heather is so concerned about the time that Terry is not spending with his kids, instead of her taking up his time why not give her date night to her kids to each go on a date night with daddy. Mind you that would cut down on Heather and Terry's screen time and help solve what appears to be their only problem. Then they would have no story line. So that will never happen.

I think there is more of a need for Grant to be taken aside and warned about Lace than Amanda warned about Josh. At least Amanda and Josh appear to be into each other. Lace is just a bitch and Grant deserves much better. She did totally disrespect him, and then he is the one who turns around and apologies to her? They are only a few weeks into a relationship - if it is this much work now Grant, it is only going to get worse. I have never watched this show before, so I am wondering if it is normal for people to leave whenever they feel like it? Not that that is a bad thing. I am totally annoyed though that Ashley was allowed to come back and continue to sabotage Calia and Jared. Since they didn't show Jared and Ashley in next week's preview I hope that means that Jared left. Are the people who come to paradise after the first week really a surprise? When Nick told Ashley that Jami had arrived, her response was "Oh". When Jami showed up on my screen my response was "Who the heck is Jami?", and I watched Ben's season. Wasn't she gone in the first week or two? So how in the world would Ashley know who Jami was (I assume there has been more than one in the history of the Bachelor?) unless they know ahead of time who is coming?

I rolled my eyes at that as well. At the point that this was filmed, TomCat had been dating Lu for less than three months, and engaged for a couple of weeks. I doubt even the dog considered Tom to be a part of the family, let alone her adult children. Did make me wonder though if Lu considered the woman that the count dumped her for to be her children's new co-mummy? Must have, as I think the count was in a relationship longer with the mistress at that point than Lu has been with TomCat. But again, that is Lu trying create an insta family in a matter of weeks.

Just a few minutes into the show the fellow whose property David lived on, Donny, said that when David did not come home they phoned his friend Marvin to see if he had seen David. Marvin answered that he had seen David on Monday and that he thought he was now in Michigan. When Donny said David was not in Michigan, Marvin said that David's truck was in the parking lot of the Dollar store. So why would Marvin think David was in Michigan when his truck, which he would be driving to Michigan, was still in town? I expected that to be followed up on but it never was. I would be suspicious of Marvin as his statements did not make sense.

Hard to say - could be a promise ring. Hubby gave me a diamond engagement ring three years before we got engaged. Then gave me another one when he proposed. But I wore the first one on my right hand as I didn't want people constantly assuming I was engaged because I wasn't. Just like when I was given my grandmother's wedding ring. I wore it on my right hand as I didn't want people to assume I was married when I wasn't. OTOH (no pun intended), I can see Beth wearing it just to tick people off. For all we know she bought it herself. I would really miss Bethy if she left the show as how she gets some people riled up is as entertaining - if not more so - than the show itself. Lol.

Ummmmmm, yes?

From what I remember the Turks and Caicos guy was wearing a wedding ring. So ya, I would think he was married and cheating on his wife. As to whether Lu slept with him? I would believe Lu as much as I believe that TomCat forgot he played tonsil hockey with a woman who was not Lu. As for Beth's boyfriend filing for divorce? Maybe he never will. He hasn't lived with his ex for a year. My brother is still legally married to his ex and they have been apart since 1990. Neither has had any interest in remarrying, hence they never bothered to divorce. Another relative's ex has lived with the woman he was cheating on her with since 1999. The relative and her ex never divorced. Does she consider herself to be a married woman? Not on your life. Personally I would want the divorce papers but for some people, unless they plan to remarry, it just isn't important.

I love every sentence in this post except for the one about Lu coming guns blazing for Beth being involved with a married man. I have never understood that when someone is separated from their wife/husband but not yet finalized their divorce they are 'married'. On paper yes, but not in any other way. I have two friends who are currently 'married' but have not lived with their husbands as married couples for almost 2 years and just over one year respectively. The second even stayed in the same home for over a year for financial reasons. The first has not yet even formally separated due to an unwillingness of the hubby to formally agree to an amount of support (though he is paying her but whatever he feels like whenever he feels like it) and her tiredness over the fighting. But he moved in with the woman he was having an affair with over a year ago. My friend is hardly 'married' to the guy. If anything, Lu was more married to the guy she was living with when she dumped him with no notice for the count. Edited to add - if the guy was married and having an affair with Beth that is a different thing. But I have never heard that that is the case unless I missed it.....

I think I will ask a couple of the ladies next time I see them if they remember who it was who worked with Daniel's ex. Then I will ask her as I am curious. It may take me a bit of time to track down who it was (and to see if she asked for any more info) but if/when I find out anything I will report back here.

The pics had times attached - 10:45, 11:30 and 12:39. So whether it was steady for two hours, the tonsil hockey went on for two hours. Regardless - if it was one kiss lasting a minute and that was my fiance he would be my ex as soon as I found out. But then again, I have self respect. But then I would also never give the time of day to a guy who would happily dump a woman he is on a date with for me. So there is that.

Actually in her TH Dorinda DID say that she was not going to lie for Tom. And that Tom could bring over whoever he wanted (it was two waiters) but there was still the smoking gun- the pictures. And considering that he and the woman were playing tonsil hockey at the bar for two hours one would think the bartenders would be the ones who would know best.

Love your first line, Ms Blue Jay! It also reminds me of how often, when I am travelling in the states, an American will ask me if I know some random person at the other end of the country just because we are both Canadian. I am sure it has happened to many other Canadians on this board. Which leads me to my second comment, which is rather funny. After many years of not watching the Bachelor/Bachelorette I watched Ben's season, then watched Jo-Jo's with a bunch of ladies on my street who have been watching as a group for several years. As it turns out, Daniel's hometown is an hour away from mine. Within the first couple of epis one of the ladies told us that one of her co-workers used to date Daniel. None of us commented much on it as Daniel didn't have much to say or do and was gone fairly quickly. Now I am watching BIP for the first time ever and would love to know if Daniel has always been this odd/funny or if he is putting on an act. However I don't remember which neighbour told us about her co-worker, and I don't want anyone to know I am watching BIP - lol. Though I have to say I do find it much more entertaining that the other two series.

I'd love to know what the lawyer in you thinks about TomCat then trying to get Dorinda to lie for him? And does anyone even understand what that was all about? Was Tom going to pay off waitresses/bartenders to say it didn't happen that night? And what would Dorinda have to do with it?

I agree, though in the case of the woman TomCat was playing tonsil hockey with, it is doubtful that she knew he was 'committed'. Lu said Tom had not seen this woman in awhile, and a mere 10 days previously he wasn't engaged, and several weeks previously was not even dating Lu. I love though that Lu said Tom could not resist this woman's clutches - didn't Lu at one point say that no one can steal someone from someone else? In any case TomCat is either a huge liar, or has a big drinking problem. He was with this woman for almost 2 hours and doesn't remember any of it? Sure TomCat. Also he and Lu went out to dinner, went home, had a fight, and by 10:45 he is already back at the bar and starting an almost two hour make out session. I call B.S. on the 'too drunk to know what I was doing' excuse. And then to top it off sticks the woman with the bill. Real catch, that Tom. Very interesting that Lu admitted that she may have more money than TomCat. I have read estimations of anywhere from 3 million to 15 million as Lu's net worth. Even 15 million is not a lot for her lifestyle and 3 million I would consider upper middle class even where I come from which is nowhere near as expensive as NYC. I did laugh when the ladies pointed out that TomCat's last girlfriend was very wealthy and he didn't give her a ring. Doesn't mean he didn't try - she might have had better sense and a better bulls**t meter. Lu has neither.

THIS!!!! All day long. I would not wish TomCat on my worst enemy, so I am amazed that people think Lu has won some sort of prize. I agree, that either dumping Tom or being dumped by Tom would be a win for Luann. I actually laughed out loud when Lu claimed that she is afraid that one of the Howives will trip her as she is walking down the isle. Ya got your soulmate for that, honey. By the looks of it he'll be tripping you plenty before that. But you will just pick yourself up, dust yourself off and continue that walk. Because lets face it, the wedding is the goal, not the marriage.

Totally agree with everything you have posted Ryebread. And it is pretty much what several of us have been saying all along. Lu isn't surprised or upset that TomCat cheated, just that he did it in public. She made it quite clear both in the scene in this epi and the previews for the next - he embarassed her in public and that is not acceptable. I find it amusing that Bethenny is the one apparently ruining Lu's happiness. I think TomCat is doing a great job of that all on his own. I also found it interesting that Lu keeps changing the definition of what an open marriage is. She had one with the count. And then she didn't- only he cheated and she wasn't happy. I guess that is the European definition? Wouldn't surprise me but again Lu went along with it and would still be 'married' (if that is what you want to call it) to the count if he hadn't dumped her via email. Ya, lovely charming man. But then she has shown with Tom that she has pretty low standards. I think if the wedding is called off it will be Tom doing the calling. I don't think Lu has any self respect so I don't know that TomCat can do anything that would make her dump him. In any case Lu gave off several vibes of desperation during this epi, bascially saying she hopes to last long enough to get down the isle. Sad, really.

Totally agree with everything you have posted Ryebread. And it is pretty much what several of us have been saying all along. Lu isn't surprised or upset that TomCat cheated, just that he did it in public. She made it quite clear both in the scene in this epi and the previews for the next - he embarassed her in public and that is not acceptable. I find it amusing that Bethenny is the one apparently ruining Lu's happiness. I think TomCat is doing a great job of that all on his own. I also found it interesting that Lu keeps changing the definition of what an open marriage is. She had one with the count. And then she didn't- only he cheated and she wasn't happy. I guess that is the European definition? Wouldn't surprise me but again Lu went along with it and would still be 'married' (if that is what you want to call it) to the count if he hadn't dumped her via email. Ya, lovely charming man. But then she has shown with Tom that she has pretty low standards. I think if the wedding is called off it will be Tom doing the calling. I don't think Lu has any self respect so I don't know that TomCat can do anything that would make her dump him. In any case Lu gave off several vibes of desperation during this epi, bascially saying she hopes to last long enough to get down the isle. Sad, really.