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Retweeted by the Arrow Production Office... https://twitter.com/ArrowProdOffice https://twitter.com/Titta1706

jbuffyangel's review of "The Climb" (as usual, it's great)... The Brightest Light Before The Dark: The Climb Arrow 3×09 Review December 14th,2014 | jbuffyangel http://www.oliverandfelicity.com/2014/12/14/the-brightest-light-before-the-dark-the-climb-arrow-3x09-review/#more-4576 Heartbreaking!

This reviewer pointed out another hint of the Lazarus Pit: http://www.newsarama.com/22961-arrow-fall-finale-who-killed-sara-lance-oh-and-about-that-ending-and-what-s-next-spoilers.html So we've seen the following clues pointing toward Oliver's survival via some type of Lazarus Pit and/or magical herbs: Ra's first appearance on the show was emerging from water Oliver packed some herbs when he left Ra's last challenge was 67 years ago Fight took place on LOA consecrated ground There is steam rising nearby Ra's didn't skewer Oliver through the heart It was freezing cold, which would slow blood flow Maseo, a former friend/ally, was conveniently present at the fight Someone approached Oliver's body

As someone who never read the comics, I found this article on the Lazarus Pit informative. But I'll leave it to the comics experts to point out any errors. (It's only spoilery if you haven't watched "The Climb" yet.) Arrow SPOILERS Here! Everything you need to know about the Lazarus Pit! by Rose Moore ⋅ Posted on December 11th, 2014 at 9:56pm http://moviepilot.com/posts/2014/12/12/arrow-spoilers-here-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-lazarus-pit-2501848?lt_source=external,manual

I went back and re-watched this episode. This time, I skipped over all the Ray Palmer scenes and Laurel family drama scenes. I just focused on Oliver's story and tried to watch with a positive and unjaded outlook. I also now had the benefit of reading other people's comments and insights. The result? What a big difference. I could now appreciate the beauty of Oliver's story when viewed on its own. I could also appreciate the wonderful acting nuances (esp. by SA and EBR), the irony of the Oliver-Thea scenes, the poignancy of the Oliver-Team Arrow goodbye scene, the bittersweet intimacy of the final Oliver-Felicity scene, and the stunning cinematography & choreography of the mountaintop trial-by-combat duel between Oliver and Ra's. Too bad my original viewing of this episode had Oliver's emotional journey undercut by the Ray and Laurel B plots.

I'm putting this review of "The Climb" in this thread because it includes a great analysis of Oliver's relationship with Felicity that explains how it affected Oliver's character development and how it's different from his past relationships. Other relationships are also discussed. It also includes the writer's perspective on why Oliver kissed Felicity on the forehead and why Felicity didn't say ILY back. If you like the O/F relationship, then you'll love this review. If you don't, then you may want to skip it. Arrow 3x09 "The Climb" (The Unmerited Favor) http://www.itsjustaboutwrite.com/2014/12/arrow-3x09-climb-unmerited-favor.html

Also from BuddyTV... TV's 17 Sexiest Scenes of 2014 By Chrissa Hardy on Thursday, December 11, 2014 http://www.buddytv.com/slideshows/arrow/17-sexiest-scenes-on-tv-in-2014-31429.aspx

I think this is a great analysis of Oliver Queen, and I also agree with the writer's praise for SA's acting (I've quoted excerpts below but the entire article is worth reading)... Who Is Arrow’s Oliver Queen? By Chris King on Dec 12, 2014 - Written by Laura Schinner (@lschin12), guest contributor to TVOvermind http://www.tvovermind.com/arrow/arrows-oliver-queen-246576 Also includes this brief analysis of Oliver & Felicity:

I'm still trying to understand why Felicity didn't say ILY back to Oliver. So I'm speculating that maybe it had something to do with her father. Maybe the last time she saw him, he was leaving for a work trip and said ILY to her and little Felicity said ILY back. Then he never returned and Mama Smoak believed that he had abandoned his family. So when Oliver was leaving and said ILY to her, maybe she had a sudden deja vu moment and wanted to say ILY back but couldn't because she was irrationally afraid that if she said it, he wouldn't return.

Has Thea ever met Felicity (other than that casual introduction by Oliver in the hospital as a friend when they were visiting Walter)? Why would she know to go to Felicity for this kind of help? Thea may only know Felicity as Oliver's former EA. Maybe Felicity will be the one to tell Thea about Oliver, while Diggle will be the one to tell Laurel. Laurel: "I don't believe Oliver's dead because I know him to his bones. And his bones tell me that he's not dead.... Of course, his bones did lie to me before when he went off on that boat trip with my sister, and I thought he was dead then. And his bones didn't tell me he was the vigilante, so I had to find out from Slade Wilson. But that's all past. Now his bones and I are BFFs." I hope Marc Singer's acting has improved since Beastmaster and V. Right after watching "The Climb", I had some incentive again for tuning in to Episode 10 when it returned in January. But with each successive spoiler coming out lately, my enthusiasm is plummeting... again.

I love these...

Reading reviews of "The Climb" actually makes me view that episode more positively (I now think I was a little harsh in my initial review)... Arrow: The Climb review Review Mike Cecchini 12/10/2014 at 9:50PM http://www.denofgeek.us/tv/arrow/242044/arrow-the-climb-review Arrow: “The Climb” In which Oliver dies the way he lived: shirtless and befuddled... By Alasdair Wilkins Dec 10, 2014 11:50 PM http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/arrow-climb-212881 ARROW: "THE CLIMB" REVIEW "SEE YOU ON THE MOUNTAIN." JESSE SCHEDEEN→ DECEMBER 10, 2014 http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/12/11/arrow-the-climb-review Arrow recap: 'The Climb' Oliver faces his toughest opponent yet: Ra's al Ghul. Ep. 09 | Aired Dec 10, 2014 Chancellor Agard on Dec 10, 2014 at 11:58PM http://tvrecaps.ew.com/recap/arrow-season-3-episode-9/

The only thing I can think of is that Laurel blurted out the secret to Thea in a moment of weakness and then immediately regretted it. She didn't want Oliver to know that she told Thea because she knew he wouldn't be happy about it, so she told Thea not to tell Oliver the secret.

Did we know that this was the inspiration for Diggle's name? From article about DC easter eggs in "The Climb" - linked in Green Arrow In Comics thread here.

Arrow: Easter Eggs and DC Comics References In "The Climb" By Russ Burlingame 12/11/2014 http://comicbook.com/2014/12/11/arrow-easter-eggs-and-dc-comics-references-in-the-climb/

Here's Alan Sepinwall's review of "The Climb"... Review: 'Arrow' - 'The Climb': Cliffhanger 'ARROW' SAYS GOODBYE TO 2014 WITH SOME TERRIFIC FIGHT SCENES, BUT ALSO SOME SLUGGISHNESS By Alan Sepinwall @Sepinwall | WEDNESDAY, DEC 10, 2014 10:49 PM http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/review-arrow-the-climb-cliffhanger

This article contains not spoilers but spoilery speculation, so I'm putting this here. Warning... this article includes some pretty graphic photos of exactly where Ra's skewered Oliver... ‘Arrow’ Mid-Season 3 Finale: Oliver Queen’s Fate Explained Published 4 hours ago by Andrew Dyce http://screenrant.com/arrow-mid-season-3-finale-oliver-dead-explained/

Keeping Sara's death a BIG SECRET never made any sense to me. After watching "The Climb" episode, I finally realized why it was kept secret. It's a plot convenience, nothing more. If it wasn't a secret, then Quentin Lance would know - and the first half of this season would be Quentin's story arc about a parent tracking down his child's killer (just like Liam Neeson's character tracked down his child's kidnapper in Taken). Quentin would be using all of the resources of the SCPD, and asking the Arrow and Felicity for help. Someone here once posted that Sara was likely closer to her father, while Laurel was closer to their mother. I agree. The first time Sara 'died', Quentin became an alcoholic. This time, I don't think he would turn to drink, but he would become obssessed with searching for Sara's killer. When Dinah found out, she would be urging Quentin - not Laurel - to make the killer pay. (Dinah: "Quentin, promise me that you'll find our child's murderer and make him pay!") DInah turning to her ex-husband, a cop, rather than her daughter, a lawyer, for retribution would make more sense. But then Laurel would have someone to share her grief and rage with - her father. Laurel would not feel cut off, alone, and burdened by this secret. She would not take center stage. She would be helping her father in his investigation. Oliver would likely share the results of the DNA analysis and Malcolm's manipulation of Thea with Quentin and Laurel, who both have known Thea since she was a child and would not blame Thea. Laurel would not have the same motivation and need to become a vigilante. Oliver's story arc would not have to change. Ra's al Ghul would still give his 48-hour ultimatum, and Oliver would still surrender himself to protect Thea and save the citizens of Starling City. Quentin and Laurel would likely accept and respect his decision. Quentin already knows about Nyssa, the LOA and Sara's role as an assassin. He would likely have to be told that Oliver was the Arrow (just like Batman revealed he was Bruce Wayne to Gordon right before he went off with the bomb in TDKR), but Quentin likely suspected anyway. Then when Oliver 'dies', Quentin would work with Team Arrow to bring down Malcolm and protect Thea. So not only Sara's death but also keeping Sara's death a secret was just a plot contrivance to effect Laurel's journey toward becoming For the same reason, Quentin's bad health was just a plot device to sideline him and keep him out of what would his natural story arc as the parent of a murdered child. I'm sure the EPs considered killing him off when he collapsed at the end of last season, but knowing they were killing off Sara, they probably thought two Lance deaths would be too much. Laurel would be too griefstricken to do anything. Instead of taking boxing lessons, she'd be headed to Central City to be with her mother - her only surviving family member.

From John Campea (he had some of the same reactions as I did after watching this episode)... Arrow After Show Season 3 Episode 9 "The Climb" Streamed live on Dec 10, 2014, by thestreamtv

Five Major Questions After Arrow’s Mid-Season Finale By Andy on Dec 11, 2014 http://www.tvovermind.com/arrow/five-major-questions-arrows-mid-season-finale-246447

I agree with what you say. It does make sense. My comment was more a reflection of my immense distrust of the EPs right now - that I don't trust them to follow through or make sense or not to change horses midstream. Editing gag or not, it's what viewers saw on screen and what misled them. Regarding Oliver leaving Thea in Malcolm's control - I just think Oliver was prioritizing. He can't do everything. First priority was dealing with Ra's al Ghul's 48-hour ultimatum and saving Thea's life, as well as the lives of 50 citizens of Starling City. He didn't have time or any plan other than to sacrifice himself. Yes, Thea is still in Malcolm's control but at least she's alive. If he survives Ra's, then he'll return and deal with Malcolm. Hopefully, he did leave a letter or instructions or something - or he'll just trust Team Arrow to protect Thea and deal with Malcolm. It seems a lot of what has happened this season is just an EP plot contrivance - Sara's death, Oliver's absence, Felicity not saying ILY back, etc. Even Maseo's presence with the LOA is probably just a plot device to save Oliver.

I'm hoping that the success of The Flash and the great ratings for the Arrow crossover episode will cause the EPs to lighten up Arrow in the future. I don't want Arrow to be as lighthearted as The Flash, but it doesn't have to be so dark all the time.

I liked that Oliver's 'last' thoughts were of his parents, his sister and Felicity - that is, the people he loves the most in the world. However, I wouldn't put too much stock in it. Last midwinter finale, we had a shot of Felicity when Slade promised to corrupt someone Oliver loved, and that never happened. But not much else in this episode made sense. Malcolm's manipulative plan to use Thea to get Oliver to kill Ra's made no sense because Malcolm would've known that Oliver had no chance of defeating Ra's. So what would Malcolm accomplish, except to kill Oliver - someone who, according to JB's interview comments, Malcolm regards like a son. Oliver's death still wouldn't square Malcolm with the LOA. Incidentally, I think Oliver went to Ra's not necessarily expecting to win (despite what he said), but, as he said, to protect Thea from LOA retribution, which he would still do even if he died. But I would also go with what Bkwurm1 said above. He's also had kind of a death wish since he returned to Starling City, so maybe this "death" will get that out of his system and he can return with a new outlook on life. Forcing the LOA trial by combat challenger to climb that cliff made no sense. I assume that Ra's had to make the same climb - otherwise it's a cheat to make Oliver climb and then fight while tired from the climb. But what's the point of the climb? Having Ra's mention that he hasn't been challenged in 67 years made no sense. Many viewers (like myself) have no comic book background, so that comment just comes across as either curious or a mistake. Incidentally, I didn't find MN's Ra's frightening at all - no presence or charisma, plus he talked too much and looked a bit flabby. Thea's loyalty to Malcolm made no sense. He's responsible for the deaths of hundreds of people, including Tommy. Balancing that against Oliver's lying to protect her, I'd think Oliver would have the edge on her loyalty. I'd subscribe to the theory that she's been brainwashed by Malcolm. But most likely not, in this season of inconsistencies and OOC moments. Maybe Thea finding out what Malcolm has done will be what turns her against him and onto Oliver's side. I actually found Thea's fighting kinda awkward as well . Having Ray Palmer's ATOM origin story included in this episode made no sense. It was like watching two different shows roughly edited together. To be honest, his sad Anna story left me cold - maybe it was BR's acting, but I was not touched. Ray still comes across like a creepy stalker. Laurel's different explanations of why Sara's death must be kept secret (first to Thea and then to Dinah) made no sense. Having Thea come upon Laurel at the cemetery and saying something like "hey, Sara is alive" made no sense. It just seemed like retconning by the EPs - like when they first killed off Sara and made her death this big secret, they forgot about the welcome home party thrown for Sara last season, and then they remembered, but since they already had the first half of the season plotted out as Laurel's motivational journey, they just retconned why it had to be a big secret. So you have Thea making the odd "Sara is alive" comment (directed to viewers as a 'yes, we didn't forget that everyone in the city knows Sara was alive last season') and then two lame-ass explanations for keeping the secret - Sara was murdered and it has to be kept secret until we find out what happened, and Sara's dead but it has to be kept secret because of Quentin's health. Ugh. Incidentally, if I had a secret, I would never tell Laurel in a million years. She just picks and chooses when and to whom to tell secrets. She won't tell the secret to someone who should know (Quentin). But she blabs the secret to people she just met or who shouldn't know (Ted Grant, Thea). And let's not forget that last season she was ready to tell her father that Oliver was the Arrow before her father indicated that he didn't want to know. Whatever the EPs' intention, she just comes across as self-centered. Now she's put the burden on Thea to lie to her brother - even though Laurel knows Oliver already knows about Sara; and she's put the burden on her mother to lie to her father. Another bit that seemed awkward and more a plot device for Laurel's motivation for her journey was that scene with Laurel and her mother at Sara's grave, when Dinah tells Laurel that she must make Sara's killer pay. Normally, when a child is murdered, isn't the parent the one who wants to exact revenge? The parent usually doesn't tell another child to do it. I guess Laurel inherited her crazy/selfish gene from her mother. Incidentally, we haven't seen Laurel doing anything to look for Sara's killer lately. She's back at her DA job. Is she relying on Team Arrow to do the investigating before she sweeps in for the kill? But enough about Laurel. Finally - and I know that this has already been debated - but Felicity not saying "I love you" back to Oliver made no sense to me. Despite the bravado of everyone on Team Arrow saying that he'll beat Ra's and return (what else are they going to say?), they all know - including Felicity - that there's a very strong possibility that he'll die. Although I like that Felicity knows Oliver well enough to know there'd be point in arguing with him about going, if she loves him and there's even a chance that he won't return, she should've said "I love you" back to him and not just stand there silently while he leaves. In any event, they better not show Felicity getting romantically involved with Ray Palmer out of grief (because they each lost someone they loved). I just don't like Ray. Maseo's presence as a LOA member made no sense. I thought Oliver met Maseo through ARGUS in the Hong Kong flashbacks. Did I miss something? It's possible, since I zoned out during some of those interminable flashbacks. Or is it just that easy to leave ARGUS and join the LOA? Maybe he's working undercover. It's hard to be too upset about Oliver's 'death' since we know he's not dead - the show is called Arrow after all. I don't think Oliver will be revived by the Lazarus Pit or at least not the comic book version of the Lazarus Pit (as I understand it). He was skewered by Ra's, but not skewered through the heart (as someone else noted above). Plus the freezing cold will have slowed the bleeding. And in the preview shot, they showed the word "SURVIVE" and then someone coming toward Oliver's body. It could be Maseo or someone else coming to rescue and revive Oliver. Then he'll spend a month healing with the help of more magical herbs. Kudos to SA's acting - he was the standout of this episode. Him, and the visual look of the episode. Damn... I might have to watch Episode 10 in January just to see Team Arrow's reactions to the news of Oliver's 'death'.

Comparing The Flash midwinter finale and the Arrow midwinter finale... Even though I prefer Arrow to The Flash as a show, I have to admit that the Arrow finale was worse than the Flash finale. The Flash episode was tightly scripted and all the characters seem to be part of the same show - connected in some way even though some of the characters (Iris, Eddie) don't know that Barry is the Flash. The Arrow episode seemed like three different TV shows roughly edited together to fit into one hour - the Oliver/Ra's plot, the Lance family drama, and the Ray Palmer/ATOM origin story.

I think these guys are either spread too thin or just aren't capable of keeping up with more than one show at a time. A previous Guggenheim interview (http://www.accesshollywood.com/marc-guggenheim-how-ras-al-ghul-will-change-arrow_video_2501937) said that episode "10 and beyond" would also include more on Malcolm's back story and a flashback. So the trilogy is all about Team Arrow, but without Oliver, and with lots of Laurel, Roy and Malcolm... uh, no, not about Team Arrow at all. Also from the IGN interview: Not sure I'm satisfied with his explanation. Diggle wasn't wearing a balaclava or any kind of mask when he confronted those Bratva bad guys, even though he was with costumed Arsenal and Arrow. I agree with whoever here said it's really because Diggle doesn't have a superhero comic identity, so they have no idea what costume to put on him. Still, it would've been nice if they could have thrown in some dialogue between Oliver and Diggle regarding what Diggle wears when he's out in the field.