tv echo

I had to double-check my memory, so here's a correction to my post above. Oliver doesn't tell Felicity outright that he sees himself as the dead body in the foundry in the future. He tells her that he was looking at Sara's body earlier and realized that "one of these days, it's going to be me. This life that I've chosen, it only ends one way." Arrow: Oliver and Felicity 3x02 Scenes(You're Still a Human Being Oliver) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANNDoxbMGL0

I see what you're saying, but I see it a bit differently. ; ) I thought Oliver's interactions with Laurel were not about making himself emotionally available to her, but about doing what he felt he should be doing as a supportive friend. He felt he had to stay strong and stay the leader. He couldn't afford to break down and become emotional and griefstricken. So he makes himself physically available to Laurel and tries to comfort her and look out for her. That first hug felt more obligatory than heartfelt on his part. As I said in the other thread, I felt that Oliver's real emotions only leaked out to Diggle and Felicity when he confided his fear of being the dead body in the foundry. He did not confide this to Laurel. He first told Felicity that he saw himself as the dead body in the foundry in the future. He later told Diggle that he didn't want to die there. That was the real, raw Oliver.

She wanted to see Oliver, so Felicity turned on the surveillance camera feeds so she could see the video of what was happening with Oliver in the field.

A little spoilery... 'The Walking Dead' creator Robert Kirkman breaks down the violent and emotional premiere By Dalton Ross on Oct 13, 2014 at 1:00AM http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/10/13/walking-dead-premiere-robert-kirkman-season-5/

The Walking Dead Taps Horror Story Alum Alexandra Breckenridge By Rebecca Iannucci / October 15 2014, 4:06 PM PDT http://tvline.com/2014/10/15/the-walking-dead-alexandra-breckenridge-season-5-cast-amc/

Looks like they've cast several assholes this season - including the Shia LaBeouf look-a-like (Adam?) who insisted on prepping the lobster and then took forever to finish.

Interview with Ming-Na Wen (no spoilers)... 'Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.': Will Melinda May be forced to kill Coulson? By Natalie Abrams on Oct 15, 2014 at 1:00AM http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/10/15/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-will-melinda-may-be-forced-to-kill-coulson/ Pure speculation, but I think it would be neat if Coulson died on AOS before the Avengers 2 movie came out. Since Coulson's 'death' in the first Avengers movie was the catalyst to get the Avengers all motivated to work together as a team, his resurrection really undercut that. If Coulson died for real on AOS, it would not only shake up the team dynamic on the show, it would make it unnecessary for the Avengers to find out that he was ever alive again for a period of time.

This was one of the stupidest episodes - if not the stupidest episode - of Arrow ever! A huge disappointment after "The Calm" (well, the first 48 minutes of "The Calm"). Were the EPs so distracted by their shiny new toy, The Flash, that they weren't even trying for consistency and realism? The beginning scene with Sara's dead body on the slab in the foundry should have been gutwrenching. Instead, like others here, I was dumbfounded at the ridiculousness of the show trying to make me believe that Laurel(!) managed to carry Sara's dead body from the alley to the Arrowcave (unless Laurel has been taking secret doses of mirakuru). Sara probably weighs more than Laurel. Then the episode ends with Team Arrow burying Sara secretly in her old grave with its headstone that says she died in 2007. Why is her headstone even still there when there was that big party last season welcoming Sara back from the dead? The secrecy of Sara's death made no sense whatsoever, considering the whole city knew Sara was alive. When Laurel finished her wailing in the alley, she should've called her father, the police captain(!), or Oliver. Sara's death would be out in the open. She, as the blonde vigilante who saved people last season, could be hailed as a hero without revealing her ties to the League of Assassins. Then she could be properly buried in a new grave with a new, correct headstone. The stupidity of this episode makes it a big FAIL for me. As expected, tons of Laurel. She and Oliver had several emotional scenes, including two hugs, but I still felt little warmth and no chemistry between KC and SA. I would've found Laurel's grief more believable if I hadn't watched last season. But the EPs are certainly trying hard to do major retconning on her character - that throwaway line about how when Laurel thought Sara had died on The Gambit, she could only feel anger, felt directed to the viewers who complained about the lack of sisterly love shown by Laurel when Sara turned up alive. Laurel's little Sara story about the stuffed toy whale?porpoise?, and the later scene with Laurel clutching that toy (while eyeing the jacket), just seemed like overkill. Instead of feeling touched, I felt like rolling my eyes. Of course, Laurel reverts to form - she gets past the police guard to see the injured Kelso by threatening the lowly police officers with her father, their boss, the police captain. What a surprise. Does Laurel have any ethics as a DA? And when Lance finds out, he just chastises Laurel for putting herself in danger, not for her name-dropping him in order to bully his subordinates. Felicity is a human being. She's not a Mary Sue and can be bitchy on occasion. She's still feeling residual bitterness over Oliver's raising her hopes that they could have a relationship and then abruptly dashing her hopes even while kissing her. However, Felicity realizes when she is being bitchy and apologizes for it. Laurel doesn't seem to recognize when she's being bitchy and never apologizes for it. (And before anyone asks, why am I bringing up Laurel here? Because bitchiness has been a Laurel trait for the past two seasons.) SA and EBR portray grief really, really well. Oliver and Felicity reacted to Sara's death in different ways but still completely in character. Oliver shut down again emotionally, but not as successfully as before. His emotions leaked out to the two people he most trusts - to Felicity when he said that he saw himself dead in the future, and later to Diggle when he said he didn't want to die down there in the foundry. These moments were especially poignant and heartbreaking because you can tell Oliver feels trapped in a way. Felicity's reaction was that life is precious and she wants a life outside the Arrowcave. She is pro-active and accepts a job with Ray Palmer - likely doing all sorts of geeky stuff that will utilize her MIT-trained skills. Oh, Oliver! Go, Felicity! Diggle names his baby girl Sara (eye roll). At this point, I hope that little Sara Diggle grows up and becomes the Black Canary.

KC is giving interviews all over the place now. You can tell she is deliriously happy about Sara's death. From her interviews, it sounds like she signed onto this show with the understanding that she was going to play an action hero. I wouldn't be surprised if part of the reason that Laurel had to become the BC was because the EPs feared a breach of contract lawsuit. The rest of the reason, as I've speculated before, is producer ego. I see ratings dropping this season, and different groups of fans blaming different things for the ratings drop. I think the EPs grew complacent with Arrow's success and the go-ahead for The Flash spin-off, and got lazy with Arrow's storytelling - make Laurel the BC! introduce

I think the viewers will be expected to handwave a lot of the training. We've already seen how proficient Roy has become (esp. shooting arrows) after only several months' training. Then at the end of the last episode, we saw Thea looking pretty good fighting after only five months' training. Inevitably, we'll see Laurel taking some boxing lessons and then becoming battle-ready. So what if Oliver had five years of training and Sara was trained by the LOA. The EPs don't seem to care. They probably believe that all viewers want to see are costumed super-heroes fighting bad guys, and all will be forgiven.

There always seems to be a disconnect between the Laurel described by KC in her interviews and the Laurel depicted on the show. KC's laughing and joking about Sara's death showed incredible insensitivity. Regardless, reading those recent KC interviews makes me less enthusiastic about watching this season. Suddenly, I'm less optimistic that Arrow will make it to five seasons.

Twitter results... Nielsen Twitter TV Ratings - Top 10 - 6th October - 12th October Posted by DarkUFO at Tuesday, October 14, 2014 http://www.spoilertv.com/2014/10/nielsen-twitter-tv-ratings-top-10-6th.html

Also, how could Laurel move the body? I find it hard to believe that skinny Laurel can carry Sara's dead body all the way from the alley to the foundry.

I really, really hope you guys are right. But I remember a time when some fans were convinced that the EPs had committed to Sara as the Black Canary and dropped their plans to have Laurel take over that role. Yet here we are - Sara's dead and her jacket & mask have literally been handed to Laurel. That's why I'm afraid that a fully evolved Oliver will also be handed to Laurel as the endgame. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst!

I like this show. There's something just a little different - a little off (in a good way) - about it. Maybe it's the stylized visuals or maybe it's the characters who are just all a little strange looking. So far, I think that Gordon and Oswald are the MVPs of this show, with honorable mentions to Bruce and Selina. At first, Gordon's partnership with Bullock was the most interesting relationship on this show because I think, over time, Gordon will end up getting his hands a little dirty as he is influenced by Bullock, while Bullock will end up doing a few good things as he is influenced by Gordon. But now, Gordon's relationship with Oswald is the most interesting relationship on this show. Gordon cannot trust Oswald but he cannot reveal his presence in Gotham either because he was supposed to have killed him. On Oswald's part, it would be interesting if he really did feel gratitude to Gordon and really did want to help him save the city (in his own evil, twisted way). When I first heard the premise of this show being about the young Jim Gordon, I was skeptical. But now I'm intrigued by the story of how Gordon managed to stay a (relatively) good cop in such a corrupt city for so many years and why he would be willing to help a law-breaking vigilante like Batman. Ben Mackenzie is great at portraying Gordon. When he was making small talk with Oswald in front of Barbara, his eyes were sending different messages and conveyed what he was feeling. When he pushed Oswald up against the wall, his repressed violence demonstrated the desperation of a man who knows he's walking a tightrope. Oswald is by far the most intriguing villain on this show. He is just so devious and manipulative and evil, and played so well by Robin Lord Taylor. Fish Mooney is so OTT that it's sometimes hard to take her seriously. Falcone and Mulroney are just ciphers at this point. Oh Barbara, giving ultimatums rarely helps a relationship. I'm glad Gordon stood his ground. He wants to protect her and not make her an accomplice to his possibly criminal actions - or have any of the corruption at his workplace touch her. He also doesn't completely trust her now that she's revealed her secret about Montoya. Have we ever seen Barbara work or do anything other than hang around the apartment? Maybe she'll move out now and get a life. I didn't have a problem with Gordon talking to Bruce. The issue involved the Wayne parents' proposal for Arkham. Yay, no appearance by the Major Crimes team. I'm not sure that Gladwell was hired by Falcone and Mulroney. He was killed so he can't say. I think someone else might have hired him, in order to start the mob war.

I continue to enjoy the partnership between Ichabod and Abby. They both know their mission and are willing to risk their lives to accomplish it. When Abby proposes that she become entranced and lead them to the Pied Piper, you can tell he is initially reluctant ("act as bait?") but he trusts her and will be there to back her up. Abby trusts him to pull her back and remove the earbuds when needed. At the end when Abby tells Ichabod to "go get" the Piper while she is comforting Sara, she's sending him into danger alone but trusts him to do so. When he is losing his fight with the Piper, I half-expected Hawley to return and save him - but it was Abby who came after him as back-up and saved him. While the Piper is distracted fighting with Ichabod, Abby comes up behind him and pierces him through the back. It is fitting that it takes both Ichabod and Abby as a team to defeat the Piper - each one alone could not have done so. Of course, you have to hand-wave the fact that a Piper who easily defeated a contingent of soldiers was taken down by two people. Ichabod's teasing of Abby and their banter continue to amuse - the driving lesson, the flute versus cello remark, etc. I am still on the fence about Nick Hawley. While I like the different dynamic he brings to the team (his skepticism, his self-interest, calling Ichabod "Shakespeare"), his involvement in this case seemed a bit contrived. But he did serve as a plot device to deliver the bone flute to Parrish. When Abby broke the flute, I was relieved because it seemed like she had been too willing to hand over a powerful cursed object to someone she barely knows. I still can't believe she and Ichabod let him keep that cursed coin from last week. Poor Frank now knows that he's signed his soul over to the Horseman.

I was reading over on the Heartaches, Bromances & True Love thread about Oliver's relationship with Felicity. My fear is that the EPs will use Felicity in the same way that they've used Sara - to help Laurel. As we've all speculated, Sara's death will likely be used to start and motivate Laurel's journey to become the Black Canary. Once Laurel is fighting side-by-side with Oliver, they will likely bond. This season, Oliver has to come to grips with whether he can have a personal life and romantic relationship with someone he loves and still be the Arrow. We've speculated that by the end of the season, Oliver will resolve this conflict and decide that he can have a real relationship with Felicity. What if Felicity helps Oliver grow into this person who can commit to a real relationship only to have something happen to her so that Oliver turns to Laurel, and Laurel reaps the benefits of that as well (namely, Felicity helps Oliver become a better man, and Laurel gets that better man)? Then you have both Sara and Felicity being used to contribute to the growth of the two main superheros, Green Arrow & Black Canary, and to their ultimate reconciliation. That is one of my greatest fears with this show.

Take that, Batman v. Superman.... Robert Downey Jr And Chris Evans To Team Up In Captain America 3? BY AYEESHA WALSH ON OCTOBER 14, 2014 http://www.entertainmentwise.com/news/159982/Robert-Downey-Jr-And-Chris-Evans-To-Team-Up-In-Captain-America-3

Sounds to me like Gareth is returning... 'The Walking Dead' showrunner Scott M. Gimple answers premiere burning questions (like that secret scene) By Dalton Ross on Oct 13, 2014 at 1:00AM @DaltonRoss http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/10/13/walking-dead-scott-gimple-season-premiere/

My first impression after watching this episode should have been "what a great episode". Instead, my overall impression was "too many damn commercial interruptions". It was like 2 minutes of show, 5 minutes of commercials, 2 minutes of show, 5 minutes of commercials, etc. I know that AMC must be making a mint off of TWD, but can they please try to reduce the number of commercials and promos! That said, what a great episode. All of the reunion scenes were touching (the actors knocked them out of the park). Carol and Team Rick kicked ass and put the Termites down. I liked that Carol recognized and picked up Rick's watch (the one he had given Sam) and Darryl's crossbow. Although Carol saved the day in this episode, I still wouldn't trust her completely. I'd still take Rick as a leader over Carol. Did Michonne get her katana back? If not, it better not magically appear next week without an explanation. I still like Glenn and Maggie. The Termites took 4 men from car A (Rick, Glen, Darryl and Bob) and 4 men from car D (including Sam). The way the men were lined up at the trough - the show came up with a logical reason why the extras were killed but our guys were spared. Alex on the butcher block - now we know why, last season, when Alex was being held by Rick, he was pleading with Gareth. He knew that he was going to be sacrificed and eaten. Although the show wanted us to feel sympathy for the Termites and how they ended up this way, I didn't. There's a vast gulf between welcoming all visitors and luring them in to eat them. After their horrific experience, the Termites could have just killed visitors who posed a threat. I'm with those who think Gareth isn't dead and will show up later to take revenge on Rick's group. I also agree with others here who think that, most likely, Eugene just wants to get to Washington. D.C., for a personal reason and he's lying to everyone in order to use their protection to get himself there since he can't protect himself. His explanation of how he can 'cure' the zombie outbreak made no sense whatsover, and I still can't believe the others are letting him get away with skating on this BS. It just makes the others look incredibly stupid. I also find Eugene, Abraham and Rosita to be annoying additions to the cast and hope they're walker fodder. I like the originals and don't want them all killed off and replaced with newbies. Morgan returns - who carved the sign on the tree? I bet his storyline leads him to the group that has Beth. Question: the promos had shown a scene of Rick saying something like "These people are my family. If you hurt any of then, I'll kill you". But I didn't see that scene in this episode. Editing casualty or future episode? Pet peeve: In postapocalyptic TV shows, the men all wear comfortably loose clothes, but the women all have skintight pants. Given they're existing on starvation rations and walking all the time, the women's pants should be hanging on them by now.

I'm glad they didn't drag out the whole framing Elsa for freezing Marian plot (the way they did when Regina/Gold framed Mary Margaret for Katherine's 'death'). Elsa seems much less powerful in OUAT than she was in Frozen. Emma's reason for pushing Hook away made sense. I hope their reconciliation doesn't mean that Hook is doomed in a future episode. I like that Hook knew Gold well enough to guess that Gold was lying about the dagger. Elizabeth Mitchell surprised me. Her usual remote style of acting (which made her terrible in some other roles) actually fit the persona of the Snow Queen - coldly detached from everyone else. The Snow Queen's back story likely includes her being put in the urn by her sister (Elsa's mother) because the SQ was evil and endangered Arendelle, but her sister couldn't kill her outright. This would spur the SQ to seek revenge by pitting her dead sister's two daughters, Elsa and Anna, against each other. I therefore wouldn't be surprised if Anna really was the one who put Elsa in the urn - but it was probably done in desperation and to save Elsa from herself. I can see the SQ corrupting or bespelling Elsa to use her powers for selfish reasons in Arendelle to the point where Elsa is about to do something that Anna knows she will regret. So she puts Elsa in the urn and then sets out to find a way to save Elsa. So who's been ruling Arendelle while Elsa was trapped in the urn? And if Elsa can magically adorn herself in that blue dress, why can't she magically change her clothes?

but to give the good stuff to Nyssa would be so much more meaningful, It's a tempting thought but I can think of two reasons why it's not going to happen on the show. Nyssa is an assassin and they want to keep Laurel on the good side otherwise they might just as well have kept Sara. But the bigger reason is that it takes years to learn skills to that kind of level. Nyssa isn't going to hang around Starling City, putting her life on hold for 3 years to train Laurel, maybe longer since Laurel has a day job, and the EPs aren't going to send Laurel off the show to Nanda Parbat while she trains. A time jump for Laurel's character would make the viewers who care about all the other characters and want to see their development furious.I agree that Nyssa has neither the time nor any motivation to train Laurel. She is still an LOA member with obligations. Whatever limited time she can spend in Starling City, she'll be spending it tracking down Sara's killer, not training Laurel. She's already a trained assassin with fighting, killing and tracking skills. She doesn't need Laurel. And what's her motivation for training Laurel? She's not going to do it out of the goodness of her heart. She's a killer. The last time she saw Laurel she knocked her out with a dart. Ra's is not going to allow LOA training to be wasted on anyone other than someone joining the LOA - which brings me to my main point here. While I fear that Sara's death means that Laurel will become the Black Canary (duh), if that has to happen, then I hope that Laurel's becoming the Black Canary will mean her exit from the show. If for whatever half-baked reason the LOA wants to train 30-year-old lawyer Laurel, then have Nyssa agree to train her - whether in Starling City or somewhere else - in exchange for Laurel agreeing to join the LOA as an assassin. Then, after Sara's killer is caught, Laurel must leave Starling City (and the show) to join the LOA. That way, she'll only return to the show on a recurring basis or not at all.

I'm going to respond in the Hopes and Fears thread.

Sorry, foreverevolving, I try to read all previous posts carefully - but too many posts and limited time!

The Walking Dead Season 5 Panel - New York Comic Con 2014 Published on Oct 11, 2014 by carl poppa