Retired at last

I thought that the "deathbed" comment was abrupt and intentionally defensive, but Cam was about to be subjected to meeting/being grilled by a bunch of Emily's fellow therapists-in-training friends and he probably was not too thrilled about that and was on edge. As far as the wedding in NZ goes, if his dad was just chronically ill, he might be able to attend his son's wedding if they had it there and, even though divorced, both parents might attend, so I don't fault him with that comment. I still like/believe him way more than I do her. She has never been interested in him and she can't fake it. And, I also believe him when he was saying some of the things she says to him - off-camera. The fact that they BOTH took off their wedding rings pretty much says that they are done, and they know it.

I'm sorry, but to go back to John being The Pawn again makes no sense. Anyone who would have been in that story is already dead and John just needs to solve a few cases with Steve and hang out at home with Marlena. No more spy or action stories for him, please. What difference would it make at this point who he really is? Just pick a name he likes and there you go.

I just dread the fact that they are referring to "Abigail" way too much these days. That is generally a precursor to that character returning. And, did anyone actually call her by her full name? Didn't most people just call her Abby?

I was DEFINITELY not happy to see that preview where Orion (go home!) asked Lauren (go home!)if she would be open to trying again. Lauren bravely said she would be open to thinking about that. NO!!!! It didn't work and now you know that he is a complete coward who will gaslight her and make her think it is her fault, so why the hell would she want to go back with him? The only reasons are the paycheck and being on camera. They are both fame whores. Hopefully, when Michael agrees to be humiliated again, the Orion/Lauren retry will not be an option, but I guess with Cam and Clare taking their rings off (you go, Cam!), and absolutely zero chemistry with the last two couples, they must be desperate. So, after D Day is over this season, will they even bother with reunions and Where Are They Now shows? What are they going to ask - do you ever run into your ex- while shopping? This season is horrible.

Exactly. Then, all she would have to say is that she would be happy to skip the partying by herself, because she will be with him. I get it that he doesn't seem happy with her past and that he thinks that 30 is a bit old to be the life of the party (is it, really?), but if she can stop walking on eggshells to avoid any conflict, they MAY actually have a lot of things in common. But, that is not going to happen because he is already checked out. But, she already knows that. And, if he tells her it is because of her past (and maybe the bizarre faces she makes and her horrible hygeine/extensions), it would be very hard to hear and hard for him to say, but if things aren't going to work out with them, it could help her understand why some of her past relationships didn't work. ETA- she can't change her past, but she could start taking care of her hair and working on the bizarre faces if she understands that those things lead men to disappear. I would think that most men wouldn't mind a quickie with her, but not for real relationships, and no one is attracted to desperation.

@kristen111, I watched the episode yesterday on my lifetime.com. I wanted to see if I missed anything good while dozing off. I did manage to see the Afterparty on Wednesday, and, yes, it was a good one, although I can do without Lauren and her opinion. Sorry, you get a divorce, you are done and we don't need to see you again, even though it was not your choice.

That's interesting. I didn't watch the Golden Bachelor, since I have never watched one of those shows, but I might take a look at this one.

I have never liked Clare, past the first episode, but now I truly detest her. She has that smug facial expression and is completely cold to Cam. I am so glad he is taking care of himself and he is now seeing exactly who he was matched with. She is not the least bit attracted to him, which is a shame. I have NO idea what he finds so appealing and likable about her. She is cruel to him. It was interesting that they both took off their rings. I do have a request for the show - STOP BRINGING IN ORION AND LAUREN!!!! They are done, we all know they are done, so stop having them in group activities where they suck the life out of the room. Lauren, you can't be that upset about losing that man, so stop crying about it. It's good that they are going to try to bring back that Michael to add drama to the rest of the season (she said sarcastically). At least we won't have to look at both Orion and Michael's weird hairstyles, if they get Orion off. I am glad that Brennan finally said out loud what he refused to say to Emily, and, yes, we were all exactly right. I did think it was funny when Dr. Pia made a comment about the face she was making and Brennan just said that's how she always does (which goes to show that I am not the only one distracted by her constant strange facial expressions). And, he is already regretting his vow that there will not be a divorce. It appears to me that Becca and Austin is the only couple who seem to enjoy being with each other, but, I still think that he is regretting this choice. If he hasn't felt ready to sleep with her yet, he is not interested in her. I don't know what "else" they are going to try, but I am sure we will hear about it. They may be the only couple to come close to having sex this season. Becca is going to have her heart broken, thanks, experts.

Not a Sarah fan - ever - but, can't they find a bigger roll of paper towels to pretend is a real baby, who by now, is much larger. That just looks stupid. Paulina is now sick? Could it please be terminal, and then, of course, Abe will remember who she is as she takes her last breath? PLEASE don't let her need an organ that he can provide. Remember when they replaced someone's heart and it came with all of that person's memories? So dumb.

I don't remember - which woman has never been in a relationship? Becca? If so, that is why she is just assuming that Austin is her perfect soulmate and is just waiting for the fun to start. She has no clue that he isn't into her. If it is Emily, I personally don't think she is attractive/pretty. She makes too many weird faces. And, neither of their husbands are interested in either of them. Is Clare actually a therapist or is she just in school for it? I can't see her having an actual practice. And, I don't blame Cameron one bit for not being excited about having a bunch of therapists waiting to pounce on him. I do understand why Clare was shocked about his father, since he had mentioned going to his home for another wedding. I just don't see any happiness or joy in her face at all. She is not attracted to him, nor is she nice or kind to him. She is always analyzing him. I don't see her being successful as a counselor or whatever kind of therapist she claims to be (or be training for). I am just sorry we don't get any dogs this season. In past seasons, the pets were the best part. Now, we got nothing! I hope that we are done with the disaster that is/was Lauren/Orion. I did think it was interesting when Orion admitted on the Afterparty that he thinks now that he should have hung in there and tried to make it work. I certainly don't see a long line of women waiting for him, like we usually see when the couples break up.

LOL - I wonder what Dr. Pepper (or is it the new one this time) found in her bedside drawers when she did the home visit?

I think that whole sex conversation was horrible and cringey. I guess I don't understand why Lauren would state what she expected so graphically. It seemed to me like it didn't matter who her partner was - this is what she wanted to have done. Wouldn't she want to wait and see the chemistry between them and take it from there? Besides, maybe with his aforementioned "girth," there might be new things she could experience????? I do hope they are over soon. They get way too much screen time.

Well, if you consider that the brief meeting we saw with Orion and Dr. Pia was part of a 4 1/2 hour meeting, there is a lot happening between them that we won't see. But, I think you're right that since Emily has never been in a relationship (and therefore, had NO business being selected), she is just going to follow whatever clues he gives her, and yes, lose herself completely. I do think that the party girl persona is not what her husband is looking for, but that is the real persona, so, it's not looking good for them.

It's been interesting trying to figure out when the Afterparty episodes were filmed. For example, Orion clearly had his hair cut (and looks much better to me, although still not attractive in any way), and whoever had the arm cast (I get the women mixed up. Is it Emily?) Anyway, she was wearing the cast, even though she doesn't wear it on the show. And, I agree that having an extra guest who means nothing to us and whose opinion would be the same as having one of us on there, is a waste of time. A lot like those dumb panel shows that Kevin Frazier leads with sm influencers, which I never watch. It is also interesting that people can decline being on there - I had assumed it was part of their contract. So, as long as our couples are dwindling and most of the men won't appear, I guess we are stuck with those outsiders. I can't believe these people who don't want to be married, but want to continue "the process." What an idiot! (Orion) Did that work with the "f-ing good" person who wanted to still be included? I really like Cam and hate the way he is treated by Clare. She doesn't like him, doesn't want him, but wants to be on TV. She has a full-time smirk and she thinks she is so much better than he is. She isn't. It is sad seeing how little the men care about their wives. Especially when the wives are starting to really like them. It was hard watching Emily when Brennan couldn't say he wasn't attracted to her, which clearly says that he is not. Becca and Austin (I think - is he the good looking one?) seem ok, but we really haven't seen any romantic sparks there, either. But, he seems like a nice guy. I am guessing that we will see Orion and Lauren at least once more, to finalize things. Then, I don't want to see them again. Other than the times we saw Orion and Lauren making out, which were gross, I don't think anyone even kisses their partner. Certainly, no one has consummated their marriages. That might be a first.

Why would the fact that Leo knows the baby was alive help anything? He knows he gave him to Dimitri and, supposedly, Dimitri took him to the hospital and he then died. Does Leo know that Dimitri gave the baby to Sloan and Melinda?

I sure hope they just divorce that pair (Orion and Lauren). I can't listen to either one of them. As has been mentioned numerous times, they just suck the air out of a room. The show spends too much time on them, so just let them (and us) out of their misery. But, I don't know how quickly they will do that, considering that they are down 1 couple. I have heard they will bring Michael back and match him with another bride, so who knows? If they are down to the three very boring, no chemistry, matches, this will be more4 horrible than it already is. And, yes, I agree with @Racj82, that he is very intimidated by strong women (like his mother and Lauren). I really don't know what Lauren is upset about. He is horrible. And she is not easy to be with, either. His latest reason for not being committed was ridiculous. Why shouldn't she have sex after she applied to be on the show. She had no idea she would be chosen. It's like applying for a job - you don't stop looking after you apply someplace. You have no idea if you will be selected. He's looking for a way out. I hope he doesn't think that once he becomes single again, he will have many women out there just waiting for him. He is gross. Again, why these people were selected from the "thousands" of people who apply is telling. Poor Cam. She has zero interest in him at all. Even when he brought her all those flowers, he got nothing back from her. Her face is flat. She wants out. Emily tries too hard, and her husband is not interested or attracted to her. Same with Becca. I think they seem happy, but there is no chemistry.

I hope they are not all the same couple!

I know this makes me a horrible person, but I do enjoy seeing someone who thinks she is so sophisticated and intelligent say something stupid, like she did. That whole conversation was ridiculous, and if that is how they truly talk to each other when the cameras aren't there, they must be awful to be around. Also, the way she just wraps herself around him confuses me, since we really don't see any other physical or intimate actions. And that's fine, but they look like they are very comfortable with physical contact, but I don't think they have had much.

We all Know, or at least guess, that Nicole will see Eric's doll-in-blanket and KNOW that he is her son. But, everyone will just think she is still mourning and it is just the grief talking. Since Leo actually delivered him, maybe HE will see him and make the connection, and he will be the hero. Not sure what is going to happen with Dimitri. I guess he will attempt to blackmail Sloan and Melinda.

I did manage to see most of this without falling asleep. I really have a hard time believing that Clare is any kind of a therapist or counselor. Cam cannot do anything right. Heaven help him if they ever do have sex. Even when he says he feels like they are making good progress and things are good, she questions him and finds something negative. And, Emily really needs to stop with the faces she makes. Her constant "I've never been in a relationship," reminds me of the season of Iris constantly announcing her virginity. Neither of those women should have been selected for this show. I feel bad for Emily's husband having to constantly deal with a wife who has no experience in having any relationship. That has to be draining on him mentally. I can't believe how physical Lauren and Orion are in public, and then as soon as they start talking, it falls apart. Lauren is too focused on interviewing him. Orion is too much to deal with. There was NO reason for him to get all weirded out because she had sex before she even knew about him. I find both of them annoying. Even their technical discussions of what they want in bed seemed too much. Just jump in and start things, if that's what they want. They shouldn't need a step-by-step plan. If there is a preference and someone asks for something, fine, but see how you respond with THIS person and maybe there will be some changes. Becca seems happy and I hope they stay that way for a while. It was weird that she didn't wear her cast during the show, but she had it on for the AfterParty. I am still not really liking any of these couples. I don't know much about the men , so I guess it is the women I don't like or am interested in. Except for Orion, the guys seem OK.

I had read that not only do they not move in together, they are done before the honeymoon is over. The production team person makes more sense, so we will have to see. It's weird all the kissing they do, when all they seem to do is talk about serious things. When is there time for romance and kissing? They are a strange couple. If this is true, then they are down to three couples - no wonder they bring Michael back with a new selection.

But, from what we saw in the previews, Lauren said she slept with someone 2 months ago and that totally broke Orion and he said that sex was off the table. Why? Don't they usually get something like 2 weeks notice that they have been picked for the show? Why wouldn't she be living her life if she had no idea that she was going to be married to a stranger? I am not sure how he will explain his reaction - as far as I am concerned, there was no cheating. She didn't even know OF him, much less know him, when she slept with someone.

I am watching right now and I have to say that Clare is horrible. She totally ruins their nice dinner.

I see that many here have already posted what I came here to post. I saw parts of both shows here (in AZ, it doesn't start until 9, so I often fall asleep and wake up later to catch part of the replay. I haven't decided if it is worth recording or not. I think not). I came to the same conclusion - this has been incredibly boring. Yes, some of those conversations would be truly important to have (if these were REAL, UNSCRIPTED couples), but they are not good television to listen to. I was trying to decide if there are any women I like. I am thinking that possibly Becca is OK, but none of the others are even a tiny bit pleasant. Emily just wants to party; Lauren is too flat and focused; Clare is just too impressed with herself. She and Cam cannot even begin to communicate and she is too condescending to Cameron, who MIGHT be fun if he had a clue what she wants. I saw part of the afterparty show and was totally confused - I thought maybe one of the guys did something to his looks, but he reminded me of Clint. Then I heard Rudy Huxtable say Clint. Why was he there???? He's still adorable, but I just didn't get why he was there. I guess I will try to watch this online because it sounds like things happen next week, so I want to catch the foundation. I forgot which one of the women has never been in a relationship, but, it could have been any of them the way they seem to me. I still can't understand why so many of these people were selected for this show and matched with the people they were matched with. The only men I recognize are Orion and Cam. The other two I get mixed up. The one with Becca seems very tolerant, but I wonder how long that will last. Especially if he wants to have children. Emily's husband is going to bail when she keeps drinking him under the table and has no clue about living as a real adult.

So, since Nicole and Eric are still the writer's idea of endgame, and they want to give the people what they want, (or what they want FOR us), once Nicole gets the truth out of Sloan, what do you think will happen? 1. Sloan will try to run off with the baby and have Salem's finest track her down? 2. Sloan will try to run off with the baby and have Salem's finest track her down? 3. Sloan will try to run off with the baby and have Salem's finest track her down?