Retired at last

Yep, they knew all along. It's kind of funny that people are now going back and watching from the beginning to see when it became clear that this was happening. It looks like it was pretty early. We know they started working out during the honeymoon. I don't know if there were tacos at that point.

I think it is interesting that in the past, it seems like many more couples were consummating their "marriages" on their honeymoons. I like it that they are waiting now. I don't think the success rates were higher when they just had sex right away. And I especially like it when the men don't jump right in if they aren't feeling attracted, even if their new spouses were willing. This season, Ick could have had Emem, Juan could have had Karla, and I think Tom was probably jumped on by Camille, so I am glad that worked - although it seems they have cooled off. Camille mentioned showing him the fancy lingerie she bought AFTER D Day, so they have definitely cooled off.

I don't think that Juan was a good candidate for this show, other than his looks, because he is so focused on his business. IF Karla had been more focused and down to earth, he may have been more attracted, but he could tell that she was very high maintenance (especially when she quit her job to open her own business but didn't have a clue how to do that). So, he was there to get business and have fun and make a little money. She wanted someone to cuddle with and support her as she went into her many different ideas for her own businesses. Neither of them have ever discussed the type of person they wanted, I don't think. Just that they aren't feeling attraction - well, Juan isn't so Karla mostly stayed quiet and looked sad.

I don't remember anything about Karla going topless, but if she did, it would be very much within her whole persona and I am sure she is very comfortable in her own body and this would be no big deal. Especially remembering her bus lecture on the power of the penis, or whatever it was.

Juan has said many times that he is not attracted to Karla. He has said this around her and said they were working on "attraction." I think he is amused by her and he did seem to enjoy it when she was asking him questions about making a business plan, although she didn't know what one was. He has been a good sport trying the things she enjoys. He has said many times that he is there to have fun and she has mentioned that he doesn't seem to be affectionate with her and doesn't have any physical intimacy with her.

While horrible as a person, I also think Michelle is much prettier than fake Madison. She is more feminine and does look nice on AP. I also agree with the comments that said that Madison is not nearly into David as much as he is into her. Serves him right. How does she do that? First, Allen is gaga for her and now David. Just my theory, but I have always thought that producers interview the applicants and pick the few they like and then they let the experts match them from those selected. I don't think the experts do much more than that.

I was looking forward to this show - silly me - and was disappointed. Except for Karla. The way she was dancing around while making baskets was hysterical. Madison is a worthless pig. Her speech about staying true to herself said it all. She doesn't think she did anything wrong because she did what she wanted to do. IF that clip we saw was the truth (which I seriously doubt), she told David ON CAMERA one week before the show was over that she liked him. NO woman, even as "beautiful" as Madison is going to do that in front of a camera for the first time. They both lie easily, but badly. I will say that David did actually appear to be happy, which we haven't seen. IF that tape was true, then Madison initiated the "true wuv" - not David. And, I still don't blame David as much as I do Madison. David had to deal with that cold bitch of a "wife" and I had no problem with him getting some positive attention. I know that Michelle is riding the wave of a victim, which she is not. She is not some amazing detective. She had one question she kept hammering at him and that was all she said to him. The text was stupid, but I also wouldn't be surprised if she was maybe fed some info from one of the producers - maybe just a hint. Considering that they didn't live together, how would she know when he came home? While sweet Allen was sleeping on the couch, waiting for his wife. I HATED Emem's letter to Ick. She has had that same look of disgust and superiority the whole show. I know some people bought that she wanted to make it work, but I never did. First of all, if she is as smart as she appears, then she would have written him off immediately. She wanted everyone to know that this failure was not her doing. Pastor Cal is an ass. His insistence that this IS A REAL MARRIAGE was ridiculous. So, is D Day next week? This will be a short one - just 2 couples left. I still am not a fan of Camille's. It sounded like she and Tom were not having sex anymore, when she hinted at showing him the sexy lingerie AFTER D Day. She also looked like she has gained a lot of weight. The show-in-place-of-Afterparty was OK. Amani and Woody looked great - she looked exquisite and classy. You know who I would love to see in a deep conversation about all these mumbo jumbo philosophies - Karla and Chloe. They can both throw those words around, but I think Karla believes it and lives it. Chloe likes to sound like she does. Paige looked pretty - she now has a baby girl and a fiancee. The others were from before I started watching. Anyway, see you all next week. Countdown to Peacock. . .

That bleeping really bothered me last week, too. I know that Allen was upset, but I had no idea what he was saying except for "bleep." The show isn't on here for 3 more hours, so keep posting please!!!!

It will be interesting to see if the Ick man appears again or if he is kicked out since he "served his wife" with phony divorce paper. And, does he get fined? Does Emem? She kept saying that she wanted to make it work, but clearly she didn't (no blame there). She is still part of the group, but he has taken off. But, I am sure he will be back. I wonder how the move to Peacock will change the format or number of couples or the rules they have to follow. Unfortunately, like many here, I sure won't be paying to see it.

I kind of agree that David didn't cheat - there was NO marriage and his "wife" wanted nothing to do with him. Madison had an obligation to spell it out to Allen that it wasn't going anywhere and not to get his hopes up. Instead, she kept saying they were growing closer and other things to keep him encouraged, although, deep down, he knew. I did have to laugh when you said as a newlywed, you would not let your new wife hang out with a guy in the gym. This is the same girl who left her husband alone at home while she went out to party the night they got home from their honeymoon, and many nights thereafter. There is no "letting" Madison do or not do anything she doesn't want to do - and what she wants to do is drink and party.

I assume that the show pays for divorces if it is announced at D Day. If they say yes then, if they get a divorce later, I also assume that the individuals pay for that. Anyone know? I believe there have been a few annulments - like Michael and I forgot her name, but she proved that he had lied the whole time.

Well, since we now all know how terrible a liar David is, it might be interesting to go back and watch from the beginning if anyone really cared, but I don't. I believe that David gave it a try with Michelle for a few weeks - at least through the honeymoon. When they got home and Michelle still gave him absolutely no hope for a future, then he may have started staying out late with the partiers and eating tacos. I think Madison would have gone for it from Day 1, since she did not like Allen because of his looks. I don't know that David and Madison are in this for life - I think they are both happy to have someone to go play with with no strings. David will always be a player and Madison will always want someone who looks a certain way. Maybe after she fixes David's teeth and hair, she will grow tired of him. Maybe not. If they are still together by the reunion show, it will be because they want to prove something. I don't know that Michelle deserves any awards for her investigating skills. She knew what she suspected and kept after David trying to get him to admit it. Her interrogation tactics were non-existent because all she did was ask the same question over and over with her arms crossed and the smirk of superiority and condescension on her face. If WE were tired of it, I'm sure David caved just to be done with it. Also, we also know that when the cameras weren't there, they never spoke or spent time together. For all we know, maybe Michelle had someone on the side. Maybe she was dating someone before the show and used this show to make him jealous (that has happened on past seasons) and went back to him? We have NO idea what happens off-camera. We can barely believe what we see ON-camera. As far as most people not liking Michelle, I think that if we had seen even a tiny bit of kindness from her, we might be able to better relate to someone who was not attracted to their match. But, her constant attitude of superiority was enough to make me write her off as a cold bitch. PLUS, the fact that even her friends said that it takes her a long time to warm up shows that she should never have been selected for this show - they don't have a long time!

Good morning, all. Here are my thoughts on this disaster of a show: I DO NOT believe that Madison decided at this time for the first time, to tell David, WITH THE CAMERAS ON, that she "wuvs him." And, I DO NOT believe that David has never heard this before and was so happily surprised because, what do you know - he "WUVS her,"too. I DO NOT believe that Michelle cares for even a second that she is a victim and has been wronged. She only cared about being right and not looking like such a cold bitch. There was NO reason for her to go to Allen and ask/tell him her thoughts. Allen did know, deep down, and it was so sad to see him have to accept the fact on camera. I DO believe that his reactions were real. I DO believe that if Michelle had shown a modicum of decency to David, he would not have jumped into this relationship. I DO believe that it did start with the two of them commiserating about the terrible matches that were made and that neither of them were in a good place. I think that David was truly interested in the beginning, but there are only so many times you can be shut down. Michelle knew she would never want him, so I really don't fault David. But, Michelle is not a victim - Allen is. I actually think it is kind of amusing that almost all of us here have the same thoughts about Michelle - she is just looking for a way to not get the villain edit, but it backfired. Most of us still don't like her or her attitude and don't have empathy towards her. On a lighter note - I DO believe that if we ever see Juan with a guitar again, it should come with a warning that what we are about to see will damage our ears and our psyche - FOREVER. (Unless they want to provide us with whatever they were smoking or drinking.) I also believe that we need to provide Karla with the actual meaning of "being on the same page." She can say that as much as she wants, but they aren't even reading the same book, much less being on the same page! All she does is try to agree with whatever he says, as long as she can work in that they are being "vulnerable and open." And Juan needs to get his original facial hair back ASAP. In looking at the previews, I DO NOT believe it when Cal asks if they have been intimate and David said they hadn't. They most certainly have. I DO believe that Madison is an even worse liar than David is. Maybe because she is younger. No more Afterparty for 3 weeks! And the next one will be after D Day. What I am wondering. . . is Emem now unhappy that she is not the person getting the most sympathy (although I didn't feel bad for her as long as she insisted that she wanted to stay married)? Is Camille going to see what she could have ended up with and start being nicer to Tom?

OK, FINALLY something to see tomorrow night! And, no way do I believe they are just platonic. I hope that when the rest of the group finds out, all of their compassion goes to Allen. Michelle treated David like crap from the wedding night on, so while she will carry on that she was a victim, she wasn't. And she deserves no empathy.

It seems like they always have trouble getting men to appear, so they are recruited, but it still seems to me that some of these women did originally want to be married. I think Emem may have wanted to really find a husband, so that's why she is clinging to following the process and saying that she wants the "marriage" to work. But, she doesn't, if she has two working brain cells. I think we have other women who just wanted to find a reasonable plus-one to add to their existing lives. We get a lot of those women. They don't want to change or compromise, but they want a permanent date to adore them. I am afraid that with the move to Peacock, they will all be a bunch of people who want SM or influencer points and no one will take this seriously. Maybe they will all just be put in a room and let them decide on their own matches from the ones who have been picked. Couldn't end up any worse. I think if they went back to not doing things (living, activities) in the total group, they would have better results.

I actually think it's funny, in a pathetic way, that Allen, and maybe David are changing their looks and style all to attempt to win the heart of a heartless woman. Madison is immature and selfish and only cares about surface-level things, like teeth. And partying. She is not the glamour girl she thinks she is and I still think she looks very masculine and has stupid extensions. Michelle, as much as I detest her, usually looks good on Afterparty and she does have a nice figure. Other than that, she is horrible, personality-wise. And both of them laugh WAY too much!

Every time I think my level of disdain and dislike for Michelle has reached a peak, she finds a way to make me even more disgusted. She is so insistent that we all see her as the victim, but she is badly misjudging her own behavior, which she has done the whole show, which is why she is going to remain a single, lonely bitch until she dies. And Madison and her laugh can just go home. Her tantrums that end up going away need to stop. But, I really need Allen to grow up and acknowledge that he is going nowhere with her, which is good for him - she will never love him. I do hope we get some answers about the reported hook-up with Madison and David or find out it was just the best teaser they could come up for this crappy season. NO, Juan - please grow back your beard. Someone referred to his "porn stache' and that's what it is. He is a handsome man, but not liking the new look. I imagine that after 8 weeks of Karla, the next woman he meets who is even semi-normal will be able to get him. He keeps saying he came on the show for fun, and that's what he is having. For Em to insist that she wants to remain married to Ick makes me totally disgusted with HER. She is supposedly a smart woman, but this is not doing her any favors. She seems to speak realistically about him when she is with the group, but I would be surprised if any of them would support her need to stay married, just to meet her goal. The thing with goals is that you need to be smart enough to realize when you set a stupid, harmful goal and be willing to CHANGE IT! My dislike for Camille continues to grow and fester. She is a very selfish woman and Tom is a great guy. He and Allen need to get together and decide that they both deserve better women in their lives. And they both will easily get them. I have yet to see why they seem so enamored with their wives. I am glad that Allen told Madison that he was NOT in love with her. She already has enough power over him. Maybe he is feeling paternal and likes caring about someone. She isn't done partying. Camille just needs an AI doll or robot to make over the way she wants since she doesn't seem to care about Tom's needs or interests. I agree that Tom and Camille will be the sole couple who say yes on Decision Day, but I hope they have split by the Reunion. Here are my predictions - Michelle will come to the Reunion saying that she has a wonderful man in her life who appreciates her - which will be a complete lie. Karla will say that her many businesses are thriving, but will still be unable to describe what those businesses are. Em will say that she is still healing from the trauma inflicted by Ick (although she inflicted it on herself) and is not looking for a partner right now. Madison and David will announce that they are living together in David's basement and going out to party every night. Allen and Tom will say that they are going on a singles cruise to meet women this summer. Juan will be back at work.

I don't believe her for a minute, but Michelle did claim on Afterparty that after the cameras left, she and David went to a bar and had a very nice time. Not buying it. Any time David has spoken, he says how she doesn't speak to him at all, and while his "player" ways seem to have returned, I do believe he did give it a good try before she just rejected him once too often. And for the show to try to make these people do those intimacy exercises is ridiculous. I am sure it is part of the playbook where we see the same things every year - on their anniversary, they get their vows and wedding albums, etc., followed shortly by a visit from the sex dr. Well, the majority of these couples don't even hold hands, much less anything else. Several haven't kissed since the wedding, so to ask them to become intimate is just plain stupid. And we know that "intimacy" is their code word for sex. Or, the ever popular, "vulnerable." PLEASE let something interesting happen tonight, show gods!!!!!

In addition to the move to Peacock, which I don't think will help them, it has been renewed for 3 more seasons! I don't know if Peacock will allow even more salacious discussions than Lifetime, but I already think there is TMI on these shows. So, along with many of you, I choose a Divorce on D Day. And, I agree with @Jeanne222 that Camille and Tom will be done by the reunion. She will grow tired of her "project" to make Tom into something he is not and he will finally realize that she is way too much for him to handle. I think she is trying to make him into something that she herself is not, which is amusing, but sad. She is NOT cool, swag, or trendy, and if she likes rough sex, whatever. I just don't want to hear about it.

I think this season that ALL of the women seem to think that they are better than their spouses - and some of them are. But, they aren't likable at all, especially the blondes. I wonder if that is why the show was so delayed almost a year before they started showing it. Maybe they tried to edit and fix it the best they could, but there was nothing they could do to make this season successful. But, other than Ick-man, and this latest David story, there hasn't even been any drama. Just a bunch of people who were paired with people they never should have been paired with. Sometimes that brings drama, other times, like here, they are just boring.

He truly must feel intimidated by her if he doesn't want to show her the best part of him. But, why would that woman date him for 2 years????? And why would he talk about being on the show, unless it was about how he wants to be on the show since he wasn't selected in Houston, right?

She whines and cries about not being taken seriously because of her beauty, but I think that is all she sees of herself. I have never known a beautiful woman to refer to herself as 'beautiful.' If she wants to complain about her looks, she could refer to herself as 'attractive' (kind of), but not beautiful, which we have seen and heard her say several times. And she is actually zquite masculine in her looks and body type, so I even asked myself if she may have been trans?

The more I see of the "real" Camille, the more I dislike her even more than I already did. She is not a nice person - she is cold and mean. She enjoyed "punishing" Tom when he was late to the anniversary thing (because he was buying her something) and she was happy to punish him by making him run sprints. Last night, she showed how she truly does like being in charge and punishing him with pain or power or whatever she felt like. I am not interested in 50 shades of MAFS, and I do not like Camille. She has had a smirk of condescending attitude towards him since the beginning. If they do say yes on D Day, it will be because the show made it worth their while and they will be done by the Reunion. Tom will be fine and he will have lots of kinder options. Even though David is truly the liar in this last scenario, Michelle going on and on about cheating on her is making her look foolish to me. She doesn't want him, she will never say yes, so stop with the act. Don't like her. Madison is very masculine looking, despite her claims of being such a great beauty. Allen is finally starting to show his true feelings and I am so glad he didn't tell her that he loves her. He realizes she will never want him and will use any excuse she can find to keep her distance. She has ALWAYS been a party girl and she has been proud of it. The night they came back from the honeymoon, she ran off to party, so I don't know what her issue is now. Yes, I do - she wants to party without him. He will be fine. She needs to grow up. Don't like her. Em and Ick - are ridiculous. The more she tries to pretend to be offended by "her husband," the more ridiculous SHE looks. This is not a marriage, there is nothing there, and I don't think she likes him anymore than he likes her. She even said that if this was a date, there wouldn't be a second one. That said, there is no way she should sign his divorce papers on the spot. She needs her lawyer and the show's lawyers to get it settled. I just need her to stop calling him her husband. I hope they don't go to the retreat. Don't like either of them. Karla and Juan are just silly. He is just laughing it up and having fun the best way he can. He isn't interested in her and she just mopes and looks pathetic that he doesn't appreciate her beauty and magnificence. The weird woman was just bizarre. WHY would the show keep trying to force intimacy this season where they are doing their best not to kill each other??? And the fact that they are not required to stay together gives these couples no hope at all. I can watch them because they are too silly to have strong feelings about. I do hope we finally see something at the retreat that they have been hinting at all season and it better be worth it!

Kind of OT, but not sure where to post it - does anyone know what happened to the SalemSpectator.com site? It just disappeared and I am wondering if they changed their URL? Thanks for any help.

I agree with you, @Jodyj, 100%.