statsgirl

She was the apex of the triangle, and yet Laurel-the-character wasn't really necessary to it, any female who both Tommy and Oliver wanted. Yes, she was pretty and I'm told she's smart but I never understood why these guys wanted her in the present. Maybe Tommy because he didn't seem to know any nice women. The s1 finale didn't help because Oliver told her to stay out of the Glades, Moira told her to stay out of the Glades, Quentin told her to stay out of the Glades but she didn't listen to them so Tommy went down to save her and ended up getting killed. And then she turned around and blamed the Hood for not saving him, and her father for trying to take her to AA. Granted, it's tough to play but KC never got me to feel any sympathy for Laurel. That's a big problem for me with almost all of Laurel's scenes, that the self-entitlement and arrogance takes over. I don't know if it's in the character or KC's interpretation of her (I suspect the latter) but it's like she expects the world to revolve around her and when it doesn't (Dinah believing Sara is still alive), she takes revenge. Even with Oliver, she'd say it's over forever, and the next episode she'd be running to him with her emotional problems.

Would Isabel have even noticed her? As long as Lyla sat at the back and kept away from Oliver, I don't think Isabel would have bothered with her. (Yeah, I really don't like Isabel.) I don't think he needed to defend Felicity specifically, just as he should have done if Isabel had gone after Diggle*. Saying "Isabel, let's keep this [battle] between us" would have told her to fight fair. You should protect your people, not leave them to be to be cannon fodder. *i can't see Isabel going after Diggle though. For all her 'poor me, it's so hard to be a woman in the corporate world', Isabel is the kind of woman who goes after and puts down other women, but not men.

That made me laugh, because like much of Laurel's "transformation", it's totally superficial.

Yes, when Diggle was worried they couldn't do the mission because Isabel went along with them, Oliver said "I'll take care of Isabel". (Such an unselfish person to have your back!) I hadn't connected that to the title though. I guess Diggle saving Deadshot was his way of keeping his enemies closer. The reason Oliver sleeping with Isabel bothers me so much is because it feels like a throw-back to pre-island Oliver where sex was just another sport he played at. I understand that he wanted to keep Isabel from finding out what Diggle was up to but there were ways other than exchanging bodily fluids with her.

Great bumper sticker on the truck: Be Safe At Night. Sleep With a Fireman. One of my least favourite episodes, and I hated the conclusion where he walks back into the fire and dies. What I did like is Diggle pushing Oliver back into his groove. Oliver is so using Walter's disappearance as a way to avoid doing Hood stuff, and Diggle is practically stuffing him into his leathers. Nice continuity, because that's what Diggle said he would do for him when he signed on. I also like Thea kicking Moira's ass to get back to work. (parallel!) And I want Moira's suit. And then there's the 'A' story. sigh. Why did the fire investigation team not connect the turpentine on the outfit with the lack of turpentine in the warehouse? Are they as incompetent as the DA's office? The guy playing the fire chief was in an episode of House playing a mob lawyer with a closeted brother. Way to dismiss Joannah's idea, Laurel. You told yourself myths when Sara died and so Joanna is too? It's always about you. Laurel calls the Hood and he comes running. But..." I didn't trust that you'd come. Where have you been?" Social chit-chat before the mission. And Oliver is pouting because Laurel thinks he's a killer. I am so over their completely dysfunctional relationship. "That guy needed a swift kick in his lazy ass." I love Tommy. "I am not exactly the best example for healthy living" Startling self-awareness from Laurel. Oliver tells Laurel what he's found out and she replies "What shall I do with this information?" Seriously? What kind of a lawyer and cop's daughter are you? Are you sure you want to end up with her, Oliver? And then she does one thing and gives up and ask him for help again. Didn't Laurel tell Oliver that she was moving past him last episode? How many times do I have to sit through this conversation? I am so completely over their dysfunctional relationship... oh, I already said that. Did someone really think this push/pull would make me root for them as a couple? Also, she's so helpless in terms of solving the puzzle with him that's it's really irritating. Oliver, at least go around the corner so Laurel can't see you when she's talking on the phone to the vigilante. I am so with Quentin bugging the phone and giving it back to Laurel. At least someone in the Lance family thinks.

They also chose Ben Sokolowski, who I think is one of the better Arrow writers. He wrote Streets of Fire, Three Ghosts, Keep Your Enemies Closer, Identity and The Promise this season. So Diggle is in but not Felicity because she's another character in the comic-verse?

The Hart to Hart video was great work. And look, a series where the couple is happily together and all the drama is about the mystery!

His idea was to 'get a place' where they could both live, as roomies and bedmates. Her interpretation was of 'living together', a serious relationship thing, like a try-out for marriage and that's what stunned him. But the show seemed to be saying that he was jealous of Barry in ep 10, Blast Radius. Was it the circumstances that changed, or that Oliver changed his mind? It wasn't that he didn't have feelings for anyone and then Sara arrived up and he suddenly decided that he could be with someone he really cared about. Oliver realized he had feelings for Felicity and made the decision not to act on them, in line with what he had said and then he fell into a relationship with Sara when she decided to stay in Starling City.

I think that was because they hadn't planned on her being anything but someone Diggle went to for information. But the chemistry between David Ramsey and Audrey Marie Anderson made them write this back story for the characters. I know AK said that they hadn't decided if Isabel was going to be good or bad at that point but I thought she was such a Bitch (with a capital B) in this episode that I don't think I could have accepted her as a good guy later. She was like Laurel on steroids, judgmental, arrogant and the only person good enough to be treated with any kind of consideration by her was Oliver, probably because he was rich and powerful and sexy.

I really love this episode. Lots of Diggle, Diggle/Lyla, Diggle/Felicity/Oliver. Anatoli. (and no Laurel) Oliver could have gone back to Isabel after Felicity told him about Roy. It was his choice not to. It's a trace of pre-island Oliver, if he's not interested in it, he's not going to do it unless he has to. When Isabel asked him what qualitifications Felicity had, why didn't he say "A degree from MIT"? Oliver to Roy "You're completely exposed"... but, wasn't he he was behind the pillar? Amanda Waller wears only one style of shoe. I wonder if she has them in every colour. "As far as they're concerned, she's already a framed picture on our lobby wall." This episode really starts building a Lyla/Diggle relationship story. Another actress who was supposed to be an occasional bit player. "Lyla, you're always the exception." I love Quentin deciding to let Roy go when he uses the Arrow password. He's come a long way. Some really good conflicted acting by PB. "The catastrophic risk of turning on the accelerator".... remember that folks." Clueless Oliver: Lyla Michaels ("It's his spy girlfriend who works for ARGUS" fills in Felicity) Mirakuru is stem cell genetic therapy? Nice us of a trendy term but it makes no sense at all. Felicity is all perky when she gets out of the car to get on the plane to Russia.... and depressed when coming back. Such is the power of Isabel. Oliver: I'll take care of Isabel, Diggle. (No matter what extremes he has to go to, eh, Oliver?) Jean Loring telling Thea to break up with Roy because it could hurt Moira's case ...stupidest subplot ever. I will speak no more of it except to say, Moira rocks. And it was her turn to wear the blonde ponytail this episode. I like Anatoli. When can he come back? season 4? as a regular? "What crime fits your punishment?" A Gilbert & Sullivan fan in the gulag. What is Floyd Laugton doing there? Was he on a mission? Is that how Lyla found him? I'd forgotten the eyepatch is new, courtsey of the Hood. Oliver asking Isabel "Why does saving my family's company mean so much to you?" Oliver clearly didn't do any research on her, so shut up about Barry, Oliver. Isabel to Oliver "Underneath that swagger, I see you pretty clearly,.. You're intelligent, driven, pretty lonely". (And she's still accusing Felicity of being a brainless floozy.) And Oliver buys it. Fratboy dazzled by a pair of boobs still. My favourite line of the series: So we're not doing the 'what happens in Russia stays in Russia'? We're still in Russia. (the 'you idiot' implied) Since Diggle was arrested and in prison, how did the Russian authorities let him leave the country? Felicity couldn't have hacked the system since she doesn't speak Russian. I love the set-up for finding out why HIVE wanted Andy Diggle. Somthing to look forward to next season, I hope.

If the point of the characters is 1) grief sex with an attractive woman or 2) seeing someone can have both wife and children and still be a fighter, I vote for the latter, especially since the description reads "Maseo Yamashiro, who will be introduced in flashbacks as Oliver’s handler. Over time, he also will evolve into a teacher and a friend who helps Oliver step ever closer to becoming the superhero he is today." That sounds like he'll be in the show for a while. Yes, Oliver, you can have a wife, especially one who is able to fight alongside you, although if Oliver grows increasingly unhuman in Hong Kong, I don't know how much he'll be able to help.

I agree. When he said it, it was the truth and given what SA has said in interviews, it's still the truth. Oliver feels that he can't be with Felicity. But because Felicity didn't apply them to herself, it's possible that she's going to interpret them as a lie when she sees him with Sara. She heard "because of what I do, I can't be with someone I could really care about.. and so I spend my time with meaningless sex with women I don't respect" not "I can't be with you". So when she turns around and sees him with Sara, she's going to think that he lied about not being able to be with someone he cares about because it's clear he really cares about Sara. Or at best, she's going to think that Oliver cares about Sara so much that he's willing to chance a relationship with her against his own rules (and that he doesn't care about Felicity herself because he wouldn't break his rule for her).. Sara was also someone Felicity liked and admired. I don't think sleeping with Oliver was inconsequential to Felicity, it never is when you've got feelings for the other person. But it was one more area where Sara kicked ass and she didn't. Like I said, Sara was someone Oliver so cared much about, he was willing to break his rule for her and that had to have hurt.

Paul Blackthorne was on ER s10 playing Alex Kingston's love interest, a womanizing, arrogant, untrustworthy hotshot, rather like pre-island Ollie. (I wonder what his method preparation for that role was.

From the Relationships thread: That makes me wonder why they couldn't write something for Laurel as a character independent of her relationship with Oliver/Arrow. They did for Diggle, a character they had to create from scratch, giving him a military background, knowledge of PTSD. as assassinated brother, an ex-wife and the whole Suicide Squad set-up. They did for Sara and Thea, who also don't exist in the comics. Even Felicity, whose existence pretty much revolves around Oliver, we can see as a strong character in her own right. I think the problem is twofold. The first is KC's acting strengths. There's nothing wrong with a bitchy or unpleasant character, for example from Paul Blackthorne's old show ER which had both Kerry and Romano as anti-heroes the audience ended up caring about. KC is best when she's playing bitchy but they won't let her do it on this show. I don't know why, maybe it's the idea of Dinah Laurel Lance playing an anti-hero that is unacceptable. The second problem is who the Black Canary is, as Orion has talked about above. In the comics she's equal to or more important than the Green Arrow. But this is a TV show about the Green Arrow and it's hard to do the Black Canary justice if they want her as anything other than a sidekick and that will upset comic book fans even more than GA not ending up with BC. Even with Sara, who was still on guest star status, as soon as she joined the team, it became the Oliver & Sara Hour, instead of Arrow or Team Arrow. And people liked Sara. .Good point. The only way I can see keeping Laurel good and on "team Arrow" (as opposed to Team Arrow) is to give her a completely different skill set -- legal -- and away from the black leather jacket fighting squad. Otherwise, they're going to find themselves in an even bigger mess.

Oliver was the alpha guy, the hotshot who led, while Tommy was the follower, the Type B who wanted a good time but also worried that he would hurt the other person. I can see Tommy being Oliver's wing man because he could get the girls that Oliver didn't have room for. Laurel always went for the high status things.

Since fairly early in s1, Oliver has wanted to connect with other people and not wanted to connect because of who he had turned into, a person who couldn't afford to let others in because he was so broken and fixated in his mission and someone who might hurt anyone who did get too close He tried to open up to Helena and ended up not only being shot down (because he'd been in love with Laurel before? WTH?) and then had her hurt someone close to him. He tried with Laurel when he thought his mission would be over only to have his best friend die. So while part of him is telling Felicity "Keep away, I'm toxic", another part really wanted to connect and he thought he could do that with Sara who could understand him the way only Helena could before and yet who was someone he could trust, unlike Helena and maybe Isabel. Like Oliver, I think Sara wanted to go home again (as she said in League of Assasins). She wanted to be close to her parents, and Laurel, and have the old life back. While she never could, being with Oliver and fighting with him was probably the closest thing she felt she could get to it. From Sara's reactions when Oliver was stunned at the idea of them living together, and her breaking up with him at the end of the episode and saying that he needed someone with more light, I got the impression that she really did care about him, maybe loved him, and that she had wanted it to be a real relationship whereas for Oliver it was comfort and a warm body next to his. I agree that she didn't think of herself as someone Oliver could be talking about. But that's what he told her, and when she found that he was with Sara, it made a lie of it. I'm not sure how to explain it so I'll give an example. Back in high school, a friend of mine told me that she couldn't invite me to her confirmation because it wasn't going to be in English and she couldn't ask anyone who didn't speak her language. I later found out that she had invited some other uni-lingual English speaking friends from our class to come and I was really hurt. Not so much because she didn't invite me but because she lied to me. She didn't care enough about me or our friendship to tell me the truth. (She could have said "I can only invite two people and I knew them first".) I never really trusted what she said after that and it ruined the relationship. Felicity trusted Oliver completely when it came to their relationship. She was even willing to leave her IT job to be his PA. The show is probably never going to go there (although I'd love it to if Felicity starts dating someone else) but I can't see she could have felt as close to or as trusting of him after realizing he had lied to her.

I wondered if I was blowing the Laurel problem out of proportion but on re-watching season 1 and the first part of season 2 where she's minimized, I don't think I am. If I could believe that if they knew that a lot of the audience wasn't happy with that arc, and they knew exactly why it didn't work, I would feel better about the coming season. But with each interview that comes out, it seems like they don't get and they still don't get it. This could have been a show where I get the popcorn, put my feet up and know it's going to be thoroughly enjoyable. And yet, because of that s2 arc and all the publicity about Laurel and the bow and being BC, I approach each new episode with trepidation.

SA seems pretty excited about something that is going to be happening in the s3 premier. Probably something action-y because he gets the most excited about those. Most probably not about Oliver's upcoming conversation with Laurel. (Please show, have Oliver tell Laurel she's not allowed in the new lair yet.) Katie Cassidy's interview was for the product she was pitching (Genlux?) and not an Arrow PR department thing. In contrast, they sent EBR to Europe with the female stars to do the interview rounds for the CW shows. But I still don't trust the show. (My first connect with the on-line star thing was in a chat with Ben Browder in Farscape s2 when he answered my question. I was excited for days.)

I love Peter Weller's Lucian. I wish he were in all the episodes. When Vic went into Walt's office to talk, I thought she was going to tell him about Branch. Noooo, it's about her own problems. They are turning me off Walt/Vic faster than I could have believed. I liked Hector. I'm sorry he's gone. But what amazing timing, for Walt to get there just in time for his last words.

Another reason not to get naked with Isabel: she was part Russian, she was familiar with things Russian and he had a big 'ole Bratva tattoo. Did he think she wasn't going to ask questions about how he got it alone on the island? I think the reason Oliver didn't sleep with Isabel again is because Summer Glau wasn't available and then they put him together with Sara so he didn't need to sleep with Isabel, but we may never know. I think they did, there was a good set-up for Laurel as the crusading lawyer and a lot of backstory for her,more than for anyone else. My guess is that within a couple of episodes they found out it wasn't working and so they wrote what was working (Oliver/Diggle, Tommy going after Laurel, Oliver/Felicity, Walter/Felicity/Moira/Malcolm/Gambit/book). You can't say they didn't throw every bit of spaghetti at the wall for Laurel but the only thing that stuck were her relationships with Tommy and with her father. I think they came up with Sara as BC because they didn't think Laurel could do it believably in s2, and then Caity Lotz did such a good job in the first half of s2 that they continued with her in the second half. The only thing they didn't try with Laurel was to make her go dark, and that's the only thing I think would work. If I squint real hard and look at it from the side, I can still see it working in the sense that Oliver idealized her as the pure perfect woman he wanted to get back to. Even though he was sleeping with Shado, it looked more like recreation than love. I guess he thought about her for 5 years in the same way he thought about telling her he was the Arrow every day since he was back, I would have if I could have.

He wasn't aware of her working with Slade. But Moira had warned him against her, he'd seen her be very extremely rude to a number of people, and she'd tried to take his company away from him. When you sleep with someone, you need to trust them because you're making yourself vulnerable, not just physically but also emotionally. This is the guy who had fifty fits when Diggle and Felicity told Barry his secret to save his life. He wasn't going to tell Isabel he's the Arrow but if he wanted a ONS, there were lots of other women he could have had, fifty million of them in Russia alone, most of them more trustworthy. He was furious at Diggle and Felicity for not having checked out Barry but he obviously didn't check out Isabel either because if he had, he would have found her connection to QC and his father. He didn't even ask Moira why she didn't trust Isabel. I think it was phenomenally stupid to sleep with Isabel especially at that time. What if he couldn't get rid of her when it came time to get Diggle? What if she insisted on coming along, as she had insisted on coming to Russia with him?. I know the EPs said they didn't know if Isabel was going to be good or bad but I don't think I could have accepted her ending up good after how she was presented in the first half of s2. (I took a Miss Marple-like dislike to her.) No matter what they did to try to fix her because I never would have bought her as being a good guy after the way she treated Oliver, Felicity and Moira. Like Helena, the character was broken long before Oliver met her. Why is Oliver so attracted to these sociopathic women? I think it's more than a small crush but it's also something that she thinks isn't reciprocated and she probably feels she needs to move on. Find someone of her own since Oliver and her are unthinkable. With Isabel, I think she was hurt that someone who she thinks so highly of would stoop to having sex with Isabel. With Sara, she was conflicted because she liked Sara but I don't see how she wouldn't be at least a bit hurt that Oliver chose Sara instead of herself. Especially since it nullified that speech of not being able to be with someone he really cared about because it was obvious he cared about Sara. Who wouldn't be hurt to find out that the line the guy gave you to just be friends was a lie?

My issues with Oliver sleeping with Isabel are more about what a stupid thing it is to sleep with someone who is trying to take away his company because he shouldn't trust her at all (listen to Moira, Oliver) which makes him too stupid to root for, and second that he really should have been concentrating on helping Diggle. Isn't that what went wrong the last time, that he was supposed to back up Diggle but his hormones got in the way and he went to 'save' Laurel? The boy doesn't learn. What if Isabel had wanted to cuddle, or to order room service afterwards and he couldn't get away? (Also that she was mean to Felicity and I feel strongly about not associating with people who hurt my friend. Oliver letting Isabel keep doing it was a douche thing to do.) I was okay with him being with Sara but in the last couple of episodes there has been an indication that he had made an emotional commitment to Felicity so I'm not okay with him sleeping around next season. Felicity, on the other hand, tried to see if Oliver was interested in her and got shot down. She's free to look elsewhere since Oliver said no.

I was thinking, what an idiot. She tried to tried to take your company, your mother told you not to trust her, she's mean to Felicity, and now you're going to jump into bed with her??? Not to mention, shouldn't your mind be on getting Diggle out right now? I can understand that they want to show what a stud Oliver is by having him sleep with every available woman but a) I find it a turn-off; b) he's supposed to have real feelings for Felicity; and 3) that's twice Felicity has been hurt by Oliver sleeping with other women (Isabel and later Sara) and if he keeps doing it, sympathy is going to be for Felicity and not Oliver/Felicity. The first time I heard it in connection with the show was in the description when KC was cast as Laurel, I think. 'Ill-suited' and 'self-centered idiots' is a better description. Romeo and Juliet, although also lacking basic communication skills*, were at least star-crossed in the sense that their families hated each other. Laurel may not have been the person Moira Queen wanted for her baby boy, but she accepted her a lot better than either Felicity or Isabel. And Juliet was only 13, not 23. That's not the head he was using. In the flashbacks, it never looked like Oliver had feelings for Sara beyond having a good time until after the ship sank. Laurel was pressuring him, Sara was available, and Robert had been setting him a really bad example for years. If it cause Laurel to break up with him, well at least she'd stop pressuring him to move in together. Oliver probably thought he'd flash that grin and they'd get together again. *If anyone feels about Romeo and Juliet the way I do, I recommend Karel Capek's Apocryphal Tales.

Me too, which is why I think they're going to have him sleeping with Waller in the past. Or maybe someone we haven't met yet. They're not going to be able to resist showing what a stud he is. Oliver was either with Laurel or on one of their breaks when he got the other girl pregnant because when he told Moira, she assumed it was Laurel who was preggers. I really hope that when Laurel finds out that he was cheating on her (again) and got another girl pregnant, she slams the romance door in his face permanently, I fear however that she will excuse him because the Arrow is just so awesome.

I wish I could be as sure that the sun will shine tomorrow as I am that Oliver slept with Amanda Waller during Hong Kong, and that we'll see it on screen next season. On the other hand, it could be worse. He could sleep with her in the present s3. Or really, sleep with anyone else where the point is to stall O/F. I didn't enjoy Isabel's Russia With Love trip.