statsgirl

That may not be such a bad thing, to have Oliver and Laurel try it again only to fail and then use that to shut it down completely. What I think would be a disaster for the show is to keep teasing them together for the next three or more seasons. That would be a black hole of suck. I can see using that horrible 'Will they/won't they' trope but I really hope they don't. It seems that WB like Felicity and Oliver is the star of the show and hopefully the EPs will remember this is supposed to be an adventure show and not a soapy drama.

The camera probably wouldn't pick it up if he said it softly and that suggests it was for Felicity herself, which may be why on the island she was asking if it was true or not. SA has been hinting in interviews that it wasn't entirely a fake-out.... but October is a long time to wait to find out.

That's what Susanna Thompson said in an interview later, that Moira respected Felicity even though she lost Moira Oliver's affection. I'd like to think that some day Moira would have realized that Felicity was more than Oliver's 'bit on the side' and first respected and then grew fond of her even though, or maybe because she couldn't manipulate her, because Felicity cared for and supported Oliver.

Another scene when Felicity brings a plant to Walter's hospital room and Moira is all "Just who are you and what are you doing here?" And when Moira showed up at QC, she was pretty cold to Felicity. I can understand why we didn't get scene of Felicity and Slade (because he had to underestimate her to make the plan work) but I regret that Moira never did get to like Felicity. She supported Thea's relationship with Roy but she never had time for Felicity.

Moira said she figured out Oliver's secret when he told her that someone in the family had to take responsibility for the Undertaking, so I doubt she knew he was The Hood when she shot him. She probably assumed that Diggle was helping him since Diggle stopped complaining that Oliver was always disappearing on him but I doubt that she knew about Felicity, As much as I wish they had been on the same side, Moira never did have much time for her. Maybe she equated Felicity with the women Robert had cheated on her with.

They should have made it Caity Lotz, although she may not be eligible until she's regular cast on the show. (Yes, I'm still hoping) Kayak relay -- awesome.

From the Laurel Lance thread: I think Moira and Felicity would have a number of things in common -- intelligence, fierce loyalty to those they loved (in Moira's case her children), independence of thought, courage (although for different reasons). I would have liked to have seen more scenes between them; Felicity might have grown in self-confidence after tangling with Moira and hopefully Moira would have grown to appreciate Felicity in the end, because she never really had time for her on the show, unlike her appreciation of what Roy did for Thea..

Please let Felicity meet him in the role of an IT consultant (with her own company?) and not as his EA or other kind of employee. Good point. I'm iffy about this (maybe because I wanted Luke Mitchell, maybe because I'm still not over that Matt Bomer got fired from the Superman movie and Brandon Routh got the gig) and his whole purpose in Chuck was to stall the ship (yuck). I hate characters who are brought on to stall the ship with the fire of a thousand suns. I try to tell myself that he'll also be a business and vigilante rival of Oliver and take deep calming breaths. Not that impressed with is acting but maybe if they give him a circumscribed role he'll do. Maybe that's the reason I'm not thrilled, because I can see him in the love interest role but not more than that as someone else (Zachary Levi) could have done, and that makes me worried they'll make it about Oliver being jealous about Felicity and now more. Mostly I'm afraid of them messing it up.

In Canada, unless you're teaching in a separate business or law faculty, rate of pay is based on seniority, independent of faculty. (I don't know how it works in the US but if Starling City U is a state school, it probably works the same way.) If you're a superstar, you can negotiate something better, like tenure as soon as you're hired and a better salary, but that between the individual and the faculty. Dinah's in her early to mid fifties, and by the time she was looking for a teaching job, you had to have a PhD to teach in a good university. The people who got in with an MA are in their 70s now. When Ryerson went from a Polytechnic to a university in 1993 (Laurel would have been 8), there was a mad scramble for everyone who didn't have a doctorate to get one in a hurry. It's very hard these days to get hired for a university position, especially when you can't move around the country to get a job that's available as Dinah wouldn't be able to because Quentin would be fixed at Starling City. I know one woman who took a job at a private school that offered reduced tuition for her kids while she looked around for a university job she didn't have to move away to do. The school was happy to have her because she was a PhD and they could brag about having a university prof on staff. I agree. Laurel was someone Moira could 'influence' because she was involved with Oliver for reasons of prestige and money as well as feelings for Oliver himself. She was the type of person who would hush up a cheating scandal because she wanted to keep her marriage intact for the money and the status. (Felicity, on the other hand, was a wild card.)

Laurel's mother is a university professor and her father is a police detective so I'd say she was middle class rather than blue collar. We know that Laurel, Oliver and Tommy were in high school together and maybe earlier than that ("I've loved you half my life"). I can fanwank that Dinah thought that education was so important that they scrimped to put the girls into a ritzy private school, but that's not the same as the show actually telling me why Laurel was in school with Tommy and Oliver and how they got together.

It would be great for Felicity to have a female friend but unfortunately every time they bring on a new character, the roles of the existing characters shrink to give room to the new one (e.g. Diggle was more of Oliver's confidante before Felicity came into the cave). And having her as a romantic rival would be worse. Would it be possible to give Naomi some of the role of the original Felilcity Smoak and have her run a tech company outside of the daily interactions with Oliver?

I don't think that Oliver is being a dick to Laurel, I think SA is playing it that Laurel knowing is a relief because Oliver doesn't have to lie to her any more, but it's a complication that he doesn't need and more importantly, doesn't want whereas as Diggle, Felicity and Sara knowing were all good things. I think he felt the same about Roy pursuing who the Arrow was, a complication he didn't want but then he wasn't supposed to be in love with Roy.

If Laurel actually believed Oliver's lies and his excuses, I'd say she was clueless; if she purposely looked the other way because she wanted him to stay with her, she was shallow.

I can imagine what Laurel saw in Oliver -- he was attractive, charismatic (with all the money), rich, and he liked spending money on good things, good food, good wine. His parents were rich and very important people in Starling City, owning QC, running charity boards, having people suck up to them. And even with the hair, Oliver was cute, and probably a sensualist. Laurel came from a middle class background where they probably had to think twice about spending money and there was the expectation that she would help with the dishes and cleaning which Oliver didn't have to do. It's doubtful she have got a car for her 18th birthday without earning the money herself.. And Laurel always liked nice things and to be the centre of attention. That's what Oliver would give her, and if the cost was him cheating on her, she was willing to ignore that (as probably Moira was unhappy with Robert cheating on her but still not willing to divorce him). Unfortunately that makes her out to be a shallow person. Maybe she is.

I think that Oliver could have been softer with Laurel, even though she crashed the party and things had been awkward between them if Oliver still had love feelings towards her. He might even have felt relief that finally he could let the walls down and be all of who he is with her, if he really thought about telling her every day. But SA plays it as Oliver closed off and even a bit 'don't bother me right now', suggesting the OTP between them is over. In any case the scene would have been awkward because Oliver was focused on Slade and he hadn't given permission for Laurel to be in the cave but SA is good enough that he could have put in undertones of relief that Laurel now knows and a bit of yearning for her but he doesn't.

When Oliver was asked how he got Steve Aoki to be the DJ at the opening of Verdant, he replied "I dated his sister." Now that Devon Aoki has been cast for the Hong Kong flashbacks, will that be an easter egg?

Tommy watching the armoured car heist: "And that's why I keep your money off-shore" Tommy is so great. Trust but verify, says Moira to Malcolm Nice parallel with Diggle not wanting to believe Gaynor is bad, and Oliver not wanting to believe Moira is either. Thea, on the other hand, doesn't trust and doesn't verify. "My father left me a message telling me what the book is.." Diggle is sceptical since it was after Oliver found the book on his father's dead body. I hope the show doesn't forget they said that like they forgot about Felicity's wine. Lots of hinting -- Thea wants a green or black car; Fyers tells Oliver "you do seem a little green" "Is that your way of saying you miss me?" "No, but if it works for you, go with it." (And that is why Felicity is so good for him.) And then she calls him "Mr. Queen" when she phones. I like that they had Oliver try to get past the encryption first and then take it to Felicity when he failed. Laurel is good with Tommy. Maybe the best I've seen her, except when she tries to convince Tommy that his father is really okay at the end. Laurel tells Tommy maybe Malcolm has changed; Gaynor tells Diggle Knox has changed. "You haven't changed and you never will. It's about time I learned that and stop letting you disappoint me" Tommy tells his father. Oh, Tommy, you are so much better than being the hero's sidekick. Gaynor: "If I hadn't got Knox this job, chances are he'd be knocking over liquor stores and robbing banks." And because you got him the job, he's robbing armoured cars. Good move. "Right after Gaynor got you hired, someone hacked our system. First person to ever make it through the firewall. Want to tell me how you did it?" Diggle has a Felicity. Carly's turned to be kidnapped. Glad to know they're spreading it around. Don't they even give Diggle a kevlar vest to wear? And Carly forgives Diggle after all that. This is a woman worth keeping around. Oliver tells Diggle that he chose him "because you see the best in people." Has Laurel has been replaced? Then he handed Diggle the book so Diggle could be the one to cross Gaynor's name off .

IF Ra's al Ghil is coming on, everyone would be sworn to secrecy. I'm still hoping that CL can't release any details because they want to announce her becoming main cast at SDCC.

Oliver's track record was preferring whichever woman was at hand and willing..... It irritated me extremely too, but the guy was cuckoo crazy by then. To be fair though, he always valued the ability to fight more than the ability to think even before the mirakuru. I figure Slade took the evaluation of his inside agent, Isabel, and thought Felicity was a bit of fluff on the side even though by then he knew she was working in the Arrow cave. He knew and loved Shado and she was a very strong woman, he knew Oliver cared about Sara and she was a strong woman, and he probably assumed that Laurel was strong as well. Felicity was the blonde who Oliver had jumped up from her IT cubicle to make her appointments, the girl who stayed in the Arrow cave when Oliver, Sara, Diggle and Roy went out fighting. After she showed Felicity how to put her feet and said 'Wing Chun is better for small people like us', Felicity remarked that Sara didn't seem to have any problem taking care of herself and CL got a hurt expression on her face. I was mad at Felicity for that because even though she had a right to be upset because she felt she was being pushed aside, Sara was just trying to help. And then Stupid Oliver came in and said 'What are you wearing?" and why aren't you at the computer and made it a hundred times worse.

There's not nearly enough Diggle and Felicity.

I was just wondering how much they tell the actors about their upcoming seasons, other than SA who seems to know a lot about what's going to happen.

I don't think Stephen Amell gets nearly enough credit for his acting (unlike for his body). Oliver is in pain in both those scenes, but with Felicity, it's out there, directed towards her and shared with her, while with Laurel it's all bottled up inside him. Poor Tommy really got a rough shake from everyone. His wasn't psycho enough for his father (who abandoned him for years right after his mother died), he was never good enough for Laurel because he wasn't Oliver, and when he saved Oliver's ass by paying off the inspector to not look into the basement lair, Oliver though he was stealing money for drugs. No wonder I like the AU fic where Tommy is still around and appreciated.

I wonder if one of the reasons Tommy seemed so much better for Laurel is because SA was playing Oliver as closed off and PTSD'd in the pilot and early episodes, and Tommy was fun and engaging, someone who lightened up the angry and obsessive Laurel. Opposites work better as romantic partners on TV; I can see why someone coming to the show not having read the comics would see Tommy, who drops in on Laurel and tales her out for a break and makes her smile, would be a better romantic choice for her than Oliver. If that were true, they would have saved me from a lot of frustration as Laurel bounced back and forth between wanting Oliver and not wanting him, loving him and hating him. Such a waste of showtime and my anxiety as I dreaded the Oliver would end up with Laurel. I wonder what made them decide it had to be Tommy that was killed off to trigger the next stage of Oliver's journey. I think they were promoting Barry as an 'impediment' because Felicity was interested in another guy (as if!) and a catalyst because Oliver got jealous and Diggle pointed it out to him. Most fanfic do it better.

Answering in the relationships thread.

In the panel clip, EBR says that when they get back in season 2, there's a lot of tension between the three again and that will span over the season. SA referred to the scene in Unthinkable being a culmination of Oliver and Felicity's arc through the season so it sounds like the EPs told her that part of the plan at least for Felicity by then.