statsgirl

I was at an alumni committee meeting Tuesday and this question came up. The college is really hard to get into and everyone who made it in was at the top of their class. One of the questions raised at the meeting was that why was it only men standing for governance positions when there were more women admitted than men? There are various hypotheses but my guess is that even though women know they're very smart, most haven't been encouraged to take leadership roles or maybe to believe that they're worthy of them. Which would be in keeping for someone like Felicity. She had enough self-esteem and courage to get out of Las Vegas and into MIT, maybe with the encouragement of her teachers, but she doesn't think she's good enough to be management material. Maybe working for Ray will help her realize just how good she can be, and not just in terms of hacking.

This is why I find it mind-boggling that they want to turn Laurel into a Good Vigilante, instead of having her Amanda Waller shades of grey.

This episode felt like a chess game to me -- the pieces were moved into position for the next season of the show, and we are left to fanwank the thinking and emotions behind them. That said..... I think that's a good way of putting it. Unlike Oliver, Laurel and Sara, she (like Sin) had a lot of grief and pain when she was growing up. Felicity chose to deal with it by being positive and striving for more, and so when Sara died and she was so upset, she needed to deal with it by finding something positive. It wasn't Oliver who was in self-blame mode, or Laurel who was out for vengeance, or Roy or Diggle who were just doing what they think needed to be done. Positive was a new job and a boss so actively wanted her, he bought the company she was working for. IIRC, the QC offices at the end were the only sunlight place for her in this whole episode. LOL at Oliver coming to realize he's not a character in a Greek tragedy, even if AK and MG think he is. That's a good theory. Didn't Tommy go bad in the comics? Maybe he ended up in the Lazarus Pit and went bad. Every time there's a lot of Laurel interacting with the regular cast, they all go OCC. (Time of Death, anyone?) I guess it just points out how she doesn't fit into the A storyline of the show. When Oliver gets near Laurel, he becomes his most prissy, self-egregious ass self. I attribute it to Laurel always propping him, saying either he's the bestest boyfriend ever (while he's cheating on her) or tearing him down when he's been off doing Arrow things. After all that has happened to him over the past seven years, I can accept that Oliver can't grieve any more, that well is all dried up at the moment. Saying he needed to be the leader so others could grieve? An excuse, and an ass of one too. Yes. What makes it worse is that this show was shot in Canada. Somebody should have stopped them, especially since it was established that yes, his mother lives in Quebec, not Louisiana. But she's not giving up her job on Team Arrow, which is the 'more' she was talking about last season. She's still staying on the vigilante job. Or maybe she secretly meant more in terms of knowing Oliver even though at that point she thought he was in love with Laurel? I assume that she took the job at Tech Town (?) ( I only think of it was Buy More) as a temporary measure because she wanted to be available for Oliver when he got back QC. Well, he doesn't want QC any more, or at least not right now. And he doesn't want a relationship with her, again not now. What he wants her for is the Team Arrow equivalent of her old IT job at QC -- hack into data bases and phones and be yelled at when Oliver's life isn't going the way he wants it to. Ray wanted her for her IT skills but he really appreciates them (hence the $1.2 billion buyout to get her working for him). It's doubtful he wants to put her back into the same old job she was in back in season 1. Maybe she's intrigued to see why he wants her so much. Or maybe she just needs to get out of the dark lair and into the light of some hope. She's not giving up the Arrow mission but she needs more in her life than just that and a shut-down Oliver right now. It's her way to grief Sara's death. It was a Laurel/Oliver episode. Symbolism. waves to Actionmage, a fellow Forever Knight fan

You are right. And to avoid politics, I'm pretty sure that Condeleeza Rice would too. Sarah Palin probably would have a loaded back-up shot-gun with her.. I think this was less Ray, because that's in the future, than to have Oliver's arms free for Laurel to fling herself into. You know, I think I would have preferred it if Laurel had been crying in Felicity's arms instead of Oliver's because Felicity cared for Sara too, and Oliver was all stoic and apart from them. It would have been consistent with him being shut off this episode, and it wouldn't have brought up the shadow of Lauriver, which, as you say, is really unfair to Lauriver fans if they are not going to do it. Also it would have progressed the Laurel/Felicity bonding they seem to be trying for more than Laurel barking orders at her and calling her in to the lair to work. Whether Ray is smarmy or not, which we will probably find out, I like his grand gestures of spending $1.2 billion to get a company so Felicity would work for him, in contrast to Oliver forcing her to be his EA (although I'm sure Ray will make a profit out it), or taking only $1 as salary to get the city moving. (It reminded me that Mark Zuckerburg just donated another $25 million to help Africa with the Ebola crisis.) It's such a contrast to the closed-off Oliver. And on a positive note, I like that Felicity said that she admired Sara for being fearless. Felicity is so often having to fight her own fears and I appreciate the continuity.

I wonder if Laurel's pantsuits are to give her a Hilary Clinton-esque vibe. Smart, capable woman lawyer. Telling her to bring her 'A;' game was a really douchey thing to do, as if she wasn't going to try as hard as she could for Sara's sake. I understand it from his perspective, that he was feeling sad and helpless and wanted to be pointed in a direction, and I understand it from hers, she was grieving and feeling helpless, and I understand it from MG and AK's view because they wanted to put a wedge between Oliver and Felicity so Laurel could have Oliver's arms around her, but it doesn't make it any better. Good points. I can't believe that the real Felicity would have walked out on Oliver like that rather than comforting him. (Or even that she went to Roy to be held rather than Oliver.) This is bringing back nightmares of last season when they decided to halt Oliver/Felicity and did it by having Oliver out of the blue start sleeping with Sara again. Apparently, the only way they know how to slow down a relationship is to have one of the pair start seeing a third party, just as the only way they know how to motivate Oliver is through a dead loved one. I missed that but yes, she must have been hanging on to hope that he would come out of his exile. Maybe that's why they weren't uncomfortable with each other in the opening episode. LOL at your write-up of Roy's thoughts "Are you hugging her or should I? 'Cause she really needs one of us to hug her right now. No? OK, I'll do it."

I wouldn't put it past her, but that's because I don't like the character. Not telling her father because he would steal her thunder is pretty small. Maybe she didn't tell him because she didn't want Sara to steal her thunder again?

That makes a kind of sense... and I think I could like psycho Laurel more than this version. But, as Oliver said, Sara's fighting skills were way more than Laurel's. Does Laurel really think she can take Sara's place?

Putting Laurel in Felicity's episode.... the shape of things to come?

I was shocked that Oliver was so brutal with the guy in the warehouse. And then I saw Laurel with the guy in the hospital bed, and said "snap". Laurel makes Oliver more vicious. And now I have this vision of Laurel prowling through the lair during those five months, opening drawers, asking question and storing it all away for future use. Yeah, Sara died for this. What a waste. Yes to the eye-rolling but I understand why Oliver said it to Diggle. He's not ready to say it to Felicity (3x22?) but at least he's thinking about what he wants from life, and Diggle is the rock that grounds him.

I hope Thea is just playing Malcolm. She's Moira's daughter, after all. I hate that Laurel didn't tell Quentin. He deserved to be there when they buried Sara because he had missed the chance to grieve last time, but it's consistent with her that she thinks she knows better than everyone else what's right. What kind of medication is he on anyway, that needs to be taken every hour? Did he get a heart transplant as well? That opening scene was pretty bad. It was dark when Sara was killed, and morning when the Team got the the lair. Was Laurel just standing there all night looking at Sara's body? Did she not think to call an ambulance? Even if they found out that Sara was the vigilante, maybe she could have lived. When Oliver was dangling hope in front of Felicity in the hospital last episode, he was basically asking her to live down in the dark with him until he was ready to move into the light, if ever. I don't like how they did it, but at least Felicity was honest about not wanting to entomb herself with him on the off chance something happens. Felicity was a better friend to Sara than Laurel was in her last stay in Starling City. (Sara helped her with training and sewed her up when Felicity took the bullet for Sara.) I'm glad they honored that, and also Sara's relationship with Roy. To be honest, four scenes of Oliver/Laurel supporting each other was enough for me.

Okay, after watching that I have zero interest in finding out who killed Sara. It was Plot contrivance. And of course Oliver and Felicity are at loggerheads. They need Oliver free to cuddle Laurel. Stephen Amell killed it this episode. Second place to David Ramsey, and Colton Haynes did a decent job. And I like Ray better now, not only did he spent $1.8 to get Felicity to work for him, he backed down when he saw she was upset. What a waste of Komodo. One thing this show has always been consistent on -- when Oliver gets close to Laurel, he turns into a dick. You have to hand it to them. Can't be said enough. Although when when they had Laurel and Oliver fighting, she did a decent enough job.

Me too. So I can prepare myself.

And the more KC gets interviewed, the more this is reinforced.

How can they? The truth is either A) Everyone loved Sara so much they would never have bought Laurel as the Black Canary unless we killed Sara blue dead and we're obsessed with making Laurel the Black Canary just like in the comic books we wrote; . or b) It's in Katie Cassidy's contract, no matter how badly Laurel sucks.

No wonder he likes playing scenes with Felicity/EBR. He gets to bring a lot more to the show, and different things than the stoic, shut-down Oliver he usually plays. And since she does comedy well, they can bounce off of each other. One of the problems for me is that Laurel brings out the worst in Oliver; the douchiest, lyingest, most selfish version of him even now. I'll see how they play it in the episodes till Christmas but nothing about their relationship to this point makes me ever want to see them in a scene together again.

I really like the way in all her interviews that she's grateful for having the opportunity to play Felicity, even though without her, there would not have been Felicity Smoak-member-of-Team-Arrow, and how she's always so gracious about the other members of the cast.

From the TV Line interview: She sees everything only from her point of view. It's kind of fascinating really. Not how Laurel is going to be impressed by Ted Grant, but how he and Nyssa will be impressed by her. How Brave&Strong Laurel is. The only thing she says about Sara is that Sara motivates her. Not how good Caity Lotz was, not what a tough act to follow, it's all and always about Laurel and Laurel/Oliver. Laurel always blames other people, never herself. If Oliver hadn't taken Sara on the boat, she never would have been up on that rooftop in black leather being shot. Yeah, and Oliver needs her because she stands up to him. Which one is it, babe? And no, she didn't struggle with the playboy side at all, she willfully shut her eyes to it.

I think for many people it will be too fast but there will also be many who either don't care because they're in it for Oliver and Ra's, or people will be happy she's become the Black Canary like her comic book destiny. From the IGN interview. Posted here because my reaction is bitterness rather than media or the character of Laurel: I know, but it always hits me again. Zero empathy. Does she really think that flashbacks watching Sara grow into an awesome Canary or seeing her in Laurel's dreams is going to take away the bitterness that now she's dead so Laurel can have her leathers and mask? Does she think they created the show for her? Maybe that explains her delusions of Laurel and Oliver/Laurel. (Hopefully she's not right and she isn't that important that they would create for her, or even the character, for her.) The words "the writers plan for Laurel" and "genius plan" do not belong in the same universe.

From every KC interview I've seen or read, yeap, this is entirely how she sees Laurel's relationship with Oliver. In the middle of everything else going on, teenage gril Oliver would totes phone up his BFF and talk about that. Laurel would take the time away from interrogating the suspect to support him because bad Felicity walked away.

At a guess, that's the only way she can connect to the show. Laurel and her great love for Oliver, platonic and otherwise. And Laurel is this really strong warrior that Nyssa and Ted Grand see and respect. The rest of the show is just a blur for her. I wonder if she even watches the episodes because in her interviews, she doesn't seem to have an idea of what is going on.

Colin Donnell only shot for one day and no scenes with Oliver. Can I bear the Laurel angst to see the episode live, or should I wait for his scenes on youtube? If they're trying to reset Laurel, they have to have wonderful scenes with her and Oliver because the last time we saw them together other than the brief scene in The Calm, Oliver was all "Do what you have to Slade, I don't care" about Laurel. Re-setting Laurel involves making her BFFs again with Oliver. Unfortunately. The timing, with Felicity becoming increasingly involved/intrigued by Ray is unmistakable. Get Felicity get swept up into Ray's world so Oliver can help Laurel become a vigilante superhero and it's not his fault, Felicity is interacting with another guy.. Yes. Pretty please may I have that for Christmas?

Someone, I think it was Bkwurm1 but I can't find the post right now. speculated that this season was going to be Oliver realizing that he can be both Oliver Queen and the Arrow, and then at the end of the season, with Roy as Arsenal, Laurel as BC, Thea maybe taking on a superhero identity and , Oliver will step back from being the Arrow because the city is being taken care of and try just being Oliver Queen for the start of season 4 until he gets pulled back in. Which led me to my fear -- that with Roy, Laurel, maybe Thea and others assuming superhero roles, there will be two tier-status, in which there are those who are superheros like Arrow, Arsenal, Black Canary etc., and there will be below them those who don't have superhero identities like Diggle and Felicity. They would be important, yes, but still be below the ones in costumes and masks. And since Diggle and Felicity are two of my three remaining favorite characters, I wouldn't like them to be relegated to a lesser status. I agree that was the original plan. But in the way that they made Felicity a regular cast member, I thought they recognized the value they had in Sara as BC and would keep her, giving Laurel something else. With Sara's death and the way they killed her off, I don't trust any of these EPs as far as I can throw them, which not being Sara is not at all. And that includes making Oliver and Felicity a place-holder couple till Felicity dies mid-season 4 so Oliver can have even more manpain and end up with Laurel at the end.

Wow, KC is really blonde in that promo. And the more I heard Oliver say "it's up to me to lead. If I mourn no one else gets to", the more I want to smack him. Repeatedly. They should have known this wasn't going to work after KC's first few episodes. If people didn't buy her as a crusading lawyer, they weren't going to buy her as BC without some substantial work. I think a better way would have been to put Sara in a com and then in a wheelchair. It justifies Laurel getting revenge for who hurt her sister. gives Sara a chance to train her sister while making more poignant the Sara backstory, and they've got an Oracle ready if they get a BoP spin-off. I could be recalling incorrectly but I think they said that Sara being alive was planned. That made me suspect that Sara was going to be Raveger (which makes sense, given what happened to her and the LoA) but then they realized Laurel wasn't ready to be the Black Canary and patted themselves on the back for making Sara Canary as Yao Fei was the first to wear the Hood, or Billy Wintergreen the dual mask. You know they are so totally going to sell that story. It's the only way they can motivate Laurel because if she didn't turn vigilante for Tommy, why should she for what they've shown us between her and Sara?

I really don't think they know they're doing it. Master of the Universe is a comic book term, isn't it? Guggenheim was one of the writers on both those episodes so he could have just used a phrase he likes, in the same way the matching island scenes with Felicity doing the same things Oliver did earlier had the same director of photography. It's stupid if you're building Oliver to be with Laurel but I do think it's a co-incidence. I hated Oliver/Laurel long before Felicity showed up, and it wasn't because of the backstory because I could have got beyond that. It was the interactions between Oliver and Laurel and how unbelievably nasty Laurel was. That is a scene that killed me. Okay, she doesn't know he just got back from fighting to save Walter and his family and curing Diggle but wow, what a bitch. She's so superior. so enjoying being nasty to him. This is beyond anger for what he did with Sara, she's enjoying hurting him. She enjoys hurting other people, whether it's her father, her mother, Oliver or the scene in the trailer for tomorrow's episode. It's not just that we've seen how much Oliver has suffered and later Sara so we feel sorry for them and not Laurel. We didn't see much of how Quentin or Dinah suffered and wow, I feel sorry for them having a daughter like Laurel.

I tuned in today after several days off and I was pleasantly surprised. I could watch Liesl and Magda snark at each other all day. It's fighting but with wit, not guns or Shawn's goons throwing punches. Maxie and Natan were cute but this judge storyline is ridiculous. Still, they were cute. As much as I hate the FauxLuke storyline, I always love to see Sebastian Roche show up. Like Liesl and Magda, he's just so unrepentantly evil. The rest I pretty much skipped over although I have to agree with any potential judge, Anna is going after Olbrecht out of spite. Victor Cassadine kidnapped four people, don't you have real criminals to catch instead of the woman he was going to kill and who ended up killing him. Besides, we all know he isn't dead, Anna should know enough about Cassadines by now to know that.