statsgirl

Here is the interview: It looks it was Susanna Thompson who admired Felicity rather than Moira. Doesn't look like there were any scenes cut, just not enough time for Moira and Felicity to share a scene again, since Slade showed up and there was more of Laurel's drama. There are a couple of parallel discussions going on right now, here as to whether it was okay for Laurel to treat Felicity as she did because she didn't think Felicity was important, and on the Keep Your Enemies closer episode thread, whether Isabel treated Felicity badly dismissing her as a secretary who slept her way into her job. I think it's worth mentioning that Felicity was not the only woman treated this way by Isabel and Laurel. Isabel treated Moira with the same disdain (it's just that Moira was better equipped to claw back), and Laurel dismissed Sara both in flashbacks and when she first got back to town because she considered Oliver her property.. It can be argued that Isabel resented Moira because Robert stayed with her, and Laurel had a lot of sister history with Sara, but I don't think the point with how they treated Felicity is Felicity herself, but how they treat other women in general. Two points do make a line.

I think the parallel was that Deadshot was Diggle's enemy but he helped Diggle out, Oliver didn't consider Isabel an enemy but that's what it ended up as. When they were having drinks in Russia? I saw that as an exchange rather rather than bonding. What did Oliver know of Isabel? That her specialty was taking over companies and gutting them, and she wanted to do the same to QC. After Walter stepped in to help save the company, Isabel stayed around but it was never clear if she really wanted to save QC or if she she was biding her time. She treated Oliver like a spoiled child, and she showed up on the tarmac to accompany Oliver to Russia without prior notice and only because she thought, so she said, that Oliver was going to take his secretary away for a sex trip. That should have set up red flags for Oliver. She was also on The List, you know, The List that Oliver knows everyone on it has failed the city and he wants everyone to pay. Isabel also bad-mouthed Felicity and treated her like a bimbo who was only in her job because she was sleeping with Oliver. (It's impossible that she didn't know how efficient Felicity really was because she'd been working with Oliver and Felicity for two months by that point. You can't work with Felicity for five minutes before realizing how organized and how good she is.) Walking out of Oliver's hotel room with her dress unzipped and telling him to give Felicity the night off because his sexual needs were already met was foul. A decent person never, ever treats someone else like that, especially someone who is an underling and has never done them any harm. Oliver was a complete douche to let her get away with that. In The Scientist, Isabel treated Moira pretty badly so presumably she did the same before Russia too. So whether Oliver knew Isabel was an enemy or not, there were plenty of indications by that point that he shouldn't trust her. Maybe it was an itch he was scratching, maybe he was trying to distract Isabel, maybe he thought he didn't deserve better than a woman who treated other people the way Isabel did. For whatever reason, he's not James Bond and he was an idiot to sleep with her.

This is the crux of it for me. Felicity sees Isabel as a manipulative, untrustworthy woman and she thinks Oliver deserves better in a relationship. She's not jealous, any more than she's jealous of Sara, it's just that she sees Oliver's blindness or self-hate making this choice and because she is his friend, she thinks he deserves better. There are a lot of secrets in this show that get people into trouble, and one of the secrets Moira kept was about Isabel and Robert. If she had told Oliver, he might not have slept with Isabel and he probably wouldn't have signed over QC to her later. With Felicity and Isabel, it's like season 1 when Diggle warned Oliver that sleeping with Helena was only going to turn out badly, and Oliver didn't listen to him. Later Diggle tried to warn him that having Laurel as his blind spot was going to turn out badly, and Oliver didn't listen at first either. For me, it works out to the same thing, that both Diggle and Felicity are Oliver's friends, and when they see him making a bad relationship or sleeping companion choice, they tell him. Oliver was consistently bad at relationships until he got together with Sara.

Laurel has a big reason not to like Felicity -- Felicity has been in the know about Oliver being the Arrow for more than a year before Laurel knew, and Oliver was the one voluntarily who told her, not Slade. Given how possessive Laurel has been about Oliver (starting back from from Sara had a crush on him) and how convinced she is that no one knows Oliver as well as she does, that's not going to endear Felicity to her. I think Laurel was rude to Felicity every time Felicity addressed her and Laurel refused to acknowledge her, from their first meeting when Felicity was friendly and all Laurel said to her was "Who are you?" (she could have said "Nice to meet you" instead of addressing all her further remarks to Oliver) to the party scene where Felicity as Oliver's EA asked to speak to him privately (Laurel had no lines butshe could still have smiled at her and nodded) to the scene in the lair where Laurel as good as told Diggle and Felicity to leave without even a 'please' even though it was their home ground and not Laurel's. Rudeness doesn't only mean what you say to someone, it also encompasses how you treat them in general. To me, Laurel's behaviour towards Felicity and Diggle has been the very definition of rude every time they met. But another reason is that there are two kinds of people in the world, those who are pleasant and caring about everyone just because they are people, and those who are only considerate if they deem the other person to be important. (There are other kinds too but I'm keeping it simple for our purposes.) Felicity is someone who cares about everyone, and Laurel cares about people only if they are important or useful to her. That's why I can't see them every being real friends, they're too different. I have a friend who has to walk with a wheelie cart because of a disability and every time someone does something nice for her, like hold a door open, she tells them "Has anyone told you today that you're wonderful?" She's limited in her ability to do things but this is something that she can do, make a complete stranger's day better, and so she does and it gives her pleasure. That's something I can see Felicity doing, wanting to make a stranger's day better just because she can be nice to someone else. As you have argued, Laurel wouldn't because she feel like she has to people unless they're important or she can use them in some way. (That's a big part of why I don't like the character.) If not for the artificial constraint of them both being on Team Arrow, I can't see Felicity and Laurel ever being friends, and if the show does try to push it, it's going to end up being fake and not true to either person's character.

Didn't she at some point tell Sara that her life stopped when the boat went down? (She forgot about law school and CNRI and her relationship with Tommy, I guess.) I agree that emotionally Laurel never seemed to move on. As soon as Oliver returned to Starling City, Laurel was right back in the midst of the hurt and anger issues, and she never really let go of them until late in the season. She always seemed to be Ollie's first and Tommy's second, after crying all night and then determining she was going to fight for Tommy, she was sleeping with Oliver in the next episode. (It makes me wonder if the crying was about being dumped rather than about Tommy himself.) Then she says that she and Oliver are over forever as a relationship, and four episodes later she's expecting Oliver to sleep with her when he walks her to her door. Fourteen episodes after that, she's telling Oliver that no one knows him like she does, even though she barely knows him since his return from the island, and several times she's told him he's worthless or she hates him. It's interesting that in an early episode Thea told Oliver that people have moved on with their lives while he's been away, but it seems that Laurel never did emotionally.

I don't think Malcolm would make Thea kill Walter, she's not as badly traumatized as Oliver was in Hong Kong when Amanda Waller probably did order him to kill Tommy, and she wouldn't do it. However, I wouldn't put it past Malcolm to kill Walter when Thea disobeys him, to bring her back in line. John Barrowman has said that Malcolm wants to control Thea emotionally but he may have his reasoning all screwed up and just as he cut Tommy off financially, he may think that cutting off Thea emotionally from everyone she loves is going to help her control him.

I can fanwank that it was confronting Moira that finally turned Moira around with respect to Felicity. Until then, Felicity was just IT girl who had a crush on Oliver, like just about every other young woman who worked at QC, and which Oliver used to his advantage when he made her his EA. Moira is a very controlled and calculating woman and not the type to be enchanted by Felicity's babbling. I always thought that Moira liked Laurel because she saw Laurel as someone she could mold into what she wanted her to be.

I think Oliver/Sara do count as a friendship because Sara is the only one who really understood what Oliver went through. FWB for a while but it seems like that has ended and now they're just friends. Laurel already hates Felicity, when she deigns to notice her. Isn't that enough? While I don't want there to be a catfight in the lair, I really can't buy Laurel and Felicity being friends. Too different, too much water under the bridge. It makes more sense for Sara to be friends with Felicity. If Sara weren't Laurel's sister, I'd have a hard time buying them as friends too. Thea has been okay with Roy having outside female friendships. since she doesn't hate Sin for it, why would she hate Felicity? From the Felicity thread: Yes, that's what I meant. I think if they had left Oliver/Felicity as purely friendship, as Diggle/Felicity is, or Beckett/Esposito/Ryan on Castle, or Tony/Abby on NCIS, it could have gone on indefinitely, never moving anywhere, nothing ever there but friendship. But it's too late now for Oliver and Felicity because they've teased that they are more to each other than purely platonic friends, and they've been doing it for 43 episodes. It's impossible to pull back on them now to being "just friends" and banter that doesn't have a second meaning. If they don't move them forward, the Oliver/Felicity banter is going to get as flat as Tony/Ziva on the latter seasons of NCIS. I think it's worth noting that Felicity has always done double entendres about Oliver that were somewhat sexual in nature, about his body and his sexuality, and he was the one she spent her time looking at, not Diggle. She even saved Sally because she liked seeing Oliver do her. So Oliver and Felicity were never "just friends", it was always heading towards something more, even if only the way Garcia crushes on Derek (which I have always hated since it was so obvious it was never going anywhere since he was a hot guy and she was comic relief). The other problem is the chemistry that Amell and Rickards have with each other. Even if the producers could permanently friend-zone Oliver and Felicity, both character would be spoiled for future relationships with other characters because a sizable portion of the audience would always be thinking "If only they had put Oliver and Felicity together, now that would have been amazing." I think they have to try Olicity within the next two seasons or have it hanging over the show as a huge black hole. That was from an interview Susanna Thompson gave after Heir to the Demon but we never actually saw it on the show. I don't think Moira and Felicity shared a scene after Heir, and before that, in The Undertaking and The Scientist, Moira didn't look like she appreciated Felicity's babbling faux pas although her real hatred was justifiably reserved for Isabel. Isabel really hated Felicity. I always thought it would have been a nice touch if she did because she was Felicity as Oliver's Moira, Moira being the woman she lost Robert to.

I don't think the writers would deliberately mess up Felicity. But .... The problem is that it will go away anyway if they don't put them together. From Bones to Castle to NCIS, the TV landscape is littered with couples that lost their spark because they were kept apart for too long. For some, like Bones and Castle, they recovered. Others didn't and what was great about them withered and died, especially if either or both of the couple got other love interests. For me, the question is whether the EPs recognize what makes Felicity and Olicity work. Given their inability to understand what the problems with Laurel are and why the addiction arc wasn't a huge success for the character, and MG's reference to the Moonlighting Curse (like Genki, I hate it and what it has done to a number of TV shows), I don't think they do get it. One of the reasons I think Felicity has worked is because they often use her as a grace note, either humorously or to motivate Oliver. Put the spotlight on her, and it gets harder. However, I will remain hopeful unless I see it tank.

Yes, I agree. The producers seem to have a real fondness for Felicity themselves (it helps that she is their creation) so hopefully that also will protect her. (On the other hand, Andrew Marlowe's fondness for Beckett and Castle didn't prevent him from messing them up for three seasons so my fingers are still crossed.)

Given these EPs and their delusion of the great love that was Oliver/Laurel, the opportunity to screw this up is huge. When I remember MG talking about how they want Oliver and Laurel to get together and than apart and then together because of the Moonlighting Curse, and think of them applying that to Oliver/Felicity, I get nightmares. I think that along with EBR's willingness to fight for her character, the thing that may save Felicity is that she is a fan favourite and a reason for many to watch the show, and Team Arrow (O/D/F) is an even bigger reason. It would be shooting themselves in the foot to ruin with that.

To me, most of what happened from Heir to The Demon to Seeing Red was filler. But I have a feeling that the EPs didn't see it that way, they thought of the episodes as stories they really wanted to tell and tell in depth. Stephen Amell was so hyped up for The Promise as the best episode they'd done up to then and I can see his point -- it was full of action and must have been a good challenge to shoot. But for me, as a viewer, it was 45 minutes spent on something I could have have done with in 15. Or maybe 5. I wonder how much the perception of filler for other people, like Sepinwall, has to do with the O/D/F Team Arrow combo, and especially Diggle and Felicity, pretty much dropping out of the picture for 8 episodes and the stories focusing on Slade and the Lance Family Drama (the latter coming from an attempt to make Laurel relevant to the show). For Birds of Prey, I already didn't care much about Helena (she won the Worst Character in s1;s Green Arrow fansite poll), I didn't care about Laurel, and between the flashbacks and current Slade story where she was the only one who Oliver could talk to, I already had enough of Sara. An episode focusing on Helena, Laurel and Sara was pretty much all filler for me. If this was an attempt to get a BoP spin-off, their timing was awful. It would have been better placed amongst a series of O/D/F Team Arrow episodes where we could appreciate the break for another storyline.

I was talking to someone about the scene in s1 where Laurel and Felicity first meet, and the other person talked about Laurel's "Caroline Bingley smile", and I thought, that's it. She's the person who takes prior claim to Oliver/Mr. Darcy, doesn't think anyone else is as good as she is, and treats Felicity like a servant. I didn't come to the show from the section of the comics that had GA/BC married to each other (I had read earlier comics though) so I have no investment in either Laurel being with Oliver or in being BC. And I would gladly have sacrificed her for Oliver's growth than Tommy or Moira. I have two main problems with Laurel: how KC plays her; and how the writers push her into the show when she doesn't need to be there and takes time away from characters I do like. I don't think anything can make KC's acting in line with Laurel Lance unless the producers finally let her become less-than-perfect and acknowledge that she acts entitled, and become Blackmail Canary. I almost stopped watching last season because Felicity and Diggle got lost and I was prepared to give up on the show altogether this season but they pulled it together in the last bunch of episodes. Thinking back, if only they had dropped the Laurel storylines except for finding out about Blood and taking it to Oliver, without the "I know you like I know my morning cereal" stuff, then I would have liked s2b much more. So really, what it's going to take to get me to accept Laurel is writing more in line with KC's abilities, and keeping her role small, like helping out occasionally but not being a full fledged member of Team Arrow. I have much more interest in Thea/Merlyn, or Diggle's family, or Sara and Nyssa, or Roy's growth or even Quentin dealing with a desk job than I have in seeing Laurel fighting with the Team.

I was never that enthralled by the Nolan Batman movies and I'm not that thrilled with Gotham either. All the actors do good work but it's overly violent for me and the only character I care about and want to see what happens to her is Catween. Even young Bruce Wayne is a budding psychopath with the burning so harden himself. (Does he grow up to be Gordon Liddy?) They need a new name for their narcotic drug. ATP is adenosinetriphosphate, which fuels mitochondria and lets RNA reproduce and everytime they said ATP, all I could think about was my grade 12 biology class. Thank you for that, I would have been lost in yesterday's OUaT episode without it. (I still don't see the point of including Frozen though, it's kind of a dead storyline.)

In one of the promo reels, they have a bit of Ray in front of a picture of a billboard, wanting to re-brand Starling into Star City. I can't see that going over well with the residents.

I loved all of those. I even quit watching when Ethan/Kristina and Jax/V came to nothing. Right now, I'm only hanging in for Alexis/Julian and the reveal of AJ's murder but sometimes I wonder if they will ever happen. I like Ned/Olivia because it's pleasant and while it's not Julexis fire, at least I'm getting it. And please, can Jason go defrost-roid-ragey and take out Sonny and Shawn? That would help my viewing a lot. I loved all of those. I even quit watching when Ethan/Kristina and Jax/V came to nothing. Right now, I'm only hanging in for Alexis/Julian and the reveal of AJ's murder but sometimes I wonder if they will ever happen. I like Ned/Olivia because it's pleasant and while it's not Julexis fire, at least I'm getting it. And please, can Jason go defrost-roid-ragey and take out Sonny and Shawn? That would help my viewing a lot.

I think Ray's storyline could also be good for Oliver in terms of QC/what he wants out of life. Right now, it seems like he only wants QC because it's his family's company. But what does he really want to do? It sounds like Ray wants to be a scientist/businessman/vigilante because he's chosen to be all of those. Oliver's only fallen into being a vigilante because of his father and then Tommy, it's not something that he would have chosen for himself. Nor does he seem to want to be a businessman, given Felicity's question if he even remembers where his other suit is. So what does Oliver Queen really want for his life, for himself? Maybe seeing Ray can help him figure it out.

I thought that's what he meant too. But like the line 'it's time we got back to the three of us', no sooner do they decide to focus on the main three of Team Arrow than they start throwing in all the other characters too. Since most of us identify the "I can't be with Felicity because it would put her in danger" line as ridiculous, I'm hoping the writers can see it too, and that if means Oliver feels that he can't be with someone he cares about because it takes away his Arrow-edge whereas it's okay to have ONSs with people like Isabel. Then he can learn through the season that other people can make heroism and famiy work, Diggle with Lyla and baby, Ray dating Felicity while still setting up to be a superhero and that he doesn't have to give up one to get the other.

Well, now with his no-kill rule he has to capture them instead. That's an arrow to pin down teeny tiny foes.

J Michael Strazynski had a five year plan for Bablyon 5 and at the end of five years, the station shut down. (There was a spin-off but it got cancelled after half a season.) All the subsequent Star Trek shows were planned to go seven seasons, and they did except for the last one which was pretty bad. I would hate to say goodbye to Oliver, Felicity, Diggle and everyone else at the end of five seasons, but I also don't want the show to be drawn out till it's not fun any more, like Bones or NCIS. But I too really want at least five seasons.l

Let It Be Me is now completed. (Have I mentioned how much I hate starting a WIP only to find that the author lost interest and left it dangling?) It starts out as a 'drunk and married in Las Vegas' fic but moves into a really good, realistic study of feelings and how we can screw things up even as we're trying to fix them.

I think they were planning to use Ted Kord, hence all the references to him in the first two seasons. But I've heard DC said "no but here, have Ray Palmer instead." Poor Brandon Routh, destined to be a plot device and a stall ship. He'll get a superhero suit and be the catalyst for Oliver to change into CEO by day, Arrow by night and relationship-attempter but Ray will probably be gone before it's time for shrinking. I can see a Suicide Squad or Birds of Prey spin-off before I can see one for The Atom. In this picture of SA and GG watching the fight being worked out, they're standing almost exactly identically. Must be the superhero stance.

I never understood where or how Slade got the films of Shado. It's always bugged me. Such a waste of Sean Mahr/Shrapnel. I think they already reprised that, in Unthinkable, to show that Oliver has learned this at least. told Oliver that she wanted to stay and fight Slade, just as Sara had done on the island, and after first pushing her away, Oliver agrees to let fight, resulting in Sara who just got in more trouble. . I'm putting this down to addled thinking by the mirakuru. Slade was fixated on Oliver being in love with Laurel, and sacrificing Shado for someone he doesn't even love (Sara) just shows how awful a person he is, and how worthy of revenge.

Felicity pointed out to him that he needed Diggle, but he refused to go to Digg until he needed him for the Undertaking so he doesn't listen to her. Thea told him he needed to open up to somebody and he took her advice but went to Laurel. Diggle told him not to trust his mother but Oliver fought him all the way. I'm beginning to think that what Oliver needs to do is the exact opposite of what he actually does.