statsgirl

It would be a lot for Oliver to take, although he lost his father 7 years ago and Tommy last year. But on the plus side, it would give him a clean slate with respect to the past. He'd still have to take care of Thea, probably fighting Malcolm for her, but a huge burden of the past would be lifted from him, and he could start to truly re-make himself as the character Diggle and Felicity know on his hero's journey, not the frat boy douche boyfriend of Laurel..

I had the same thought. But it's not just Diggle and Felicity. Laurel also treated her mother when she blamed Dinah for leaving her, and she was pretty nasty with her father at the beginning too. And from the flashback before the boat trip, it looked like Sara was always treated as the family screw-up and Laurel the amazing child wonder. If they would just let Laurel be a self-absorbed and selfish person, not bothering with people she thinks aren't good enough for her to pay attention to (I can see her as a Mean Girl) and refusing to pay attention to anything that doesn't fit her world-view, it would fit the Arrow universe that they've created very well. Bonus, it would also play to Katie Cassidy's acting strengths. I don't think those scenes make Laurel superfluous, I worry that the producers are setting up Laurel to replace those other characters. She probably won't replace Diggle as Oliver's bodyguard or Felicity as his hacker, but she can be written to replace them as his Voice of Reason or Person He Leans On. The threat is already there that she's going to replace Sara as the Black Canary.

They never are. That's how they get defeated. I don't have much to add to what everyone else has said. The best scenes were anything with Diggle and Felicity in them and Thea's scenes with Walter and Oliver. The worst was the logic that Oliver and Thea are now broke with their shares of QC rising, the fact that the shares actually are rising with Isabel in charge, and any scene with Laurel starting when she showed up at the Arrow Cave. I also thought she was condescending with Thea but that could just be because I've completely had it with the character. Kreisburg and Guggenheim have bought me a ticket on the Laurel hate train, packed me a lunch and waved me off. The "Hi! I'll be your interrogator." scene was just so perfect because it was funny, true to the characters, and advanced the action. Laurel being the only one who could save Oliver was awful for the opposite reasons. It made me cheer too. And then it turned out that Laurel was taking over there and replacing Sara as Oliver's fighting partner. When Anatoli (who will always be Zelinka for me) said that Oliver and Sara are perfect for each other because they both like blowing things up, my viewing partner said "Hey, it was Felicity's plan to blow up Star Labs!" The ship pandering was all over the show this episode. Don't be sorry at all. It's the only way to take Laurel, either that or drinking. The question for me is whether they're serious with all the Laurel propping, or whether they're leading us down a garden path for a big twist. I suspect the former, and if it's true, not even Diggle and Felicity will be able to save the show for me.

Letting Laurel go evil would be the solution to so many problems. They wouldn't need to keep coming up with ways to write her into the show because she would be working with the bad guys and naturally part of the stories, they wouldn't have to keep forcing her chemistry with Amell, and she could start to do the physical parts of being a super without being in competition with Caity Lotz. The question is, do the producers have enough of an objective view of their show to do it, or are they too in love with KC? You don't really fall in love with money, that's a decision you make to go after this person who has it. Maybe you can fall in love with really good sex, I dunno. Oliver was so selfish in the flashbacks, it's hard to believe the sex could have been that good. It's not that Laurel and Oliver are wrong for each other (which they are), it's that it's such a stretch for me to see Laurel as actually being in love with Oliver even in the flashbacks. She's presented as someone smart and ambitious and middle-class; he's a rich boy who keeps getting kicked out of schools and is a douche. Did she even know he cheated on her? I'm guessing she had to have a clue because she went to extraordinary lengths to keep Sara away from him so she must have had an inkling he wouldn't be faithful to her. I have the impression that Oliver liked Laurel because she was pretty and smart and available, and that Laurel liked Oliver because she had made a life plan for herself, he fit into it real good, and she wasn't going to let anything keep her from getting what she wanted..

I think it was supposed to show that Blood knew even before Moira's rally that she was going to die i.e. that Slade was going to kill her, proving that Blood was working with Slade and giving Laurel a reason to say "I told you so" after she had apologized to everyone for going after Blood for no reason.. Which not only makes Moira sacrificing herself to save Thea meaningless, it makes me wonder what would have happened if Thea had been killed first, either in the car accident or by jumping on to Slade's gun. Would Slade have killed Moira anyway? Or would he have assumed she would drop out of the mayoralty race because of grief over Thea? (Still doesn't explain Blood saying Moira died though.) That's what makes me think that Slade kidnaps Laurel and not Felicity. But if he were kidnapping Laurel, there wouldn't need to be this stupid reason to get her into the storyline so maybe it is Felicity after all. Apparently they're related to the people who caused the Queen fortune to disappear in spite of all the stocks and trust accounts and off shore assets they hold. Maybe they still think Laurel is a reason people tune in to watch.

When Sara came home from college before the ill-fated boat trip, it seemed like Quentin was expecting to hear that she had come home because she was failing, not just to have a weekend off. Between pushing Laurel into either law school or academia like her mother, I just got the impression that Laurel was the shining academic light of the Lance family. Not that Sara wasn't smart, just that she wasn't academically oriented like Laurel. Even having to go home to help Sara with her trig makes it appear that Laurel is the smart one in the family. He really doesn't. I can understand why they would want to do that, to highlight the chance in him, but I can't understand why Laurel would want to move in with and marry him. I can see Sara wanting to have fun and party with him, but not Laurel's motivation.

What interests me about Laurel is the disconnect between what they tell us about her, and what they show. From Seeing Red: Laurel: I have to go help Sara with her trigonometry. Oliver: I don't even know what that is. Laurel :You're so cute. Aside from wondering why Sara would even be taking trigonometry since she's been portrayed as not being the academic type, I don't understand Laurel in this scene. She's been presented as smart and focused but I can't imagine Anaything that would be a bigger turn-off to a character like that than having Oliver say "I don't even know what trigonometry is." (One of the things that makes Benedict Cumberbatch so sexy as Sherlock is his brain.) So is what attracts Laurel to Oliver his body? Would that be enough to put up with his behaviour? Because if not, then it's his money and that makes her a gold-digger. Not to mention that she still doesn't seem to know that he's cheating on her. What's the reason for writing her this way? It certainly doesn't make it any easier to make her the Black Canary.

Moira said told the pregnant girl to go back to Central City, saying that she had family there. If she was Oliver's age, she'd still be under 30 now, which would make her parents in their 50s or 60s. There is probably someone, either her parents or maybe a sibling, who would take Connor if she died. But in books and movies, when the mother dies she usually leaves a note for the birth father saying "Oh, by the way, I never told you but...." Yeah. I remember last season when Oliver had to tell her that Thea required more disciplined parenting. But at least she can learn -- this week when Thea went all teen angst and said Moira couldn't contaminate Verdant too, Moira reminded her there she had signed a contract. Grow up, Thea. I'm really going to miss Susanna Thompson. She brought everyone's game up, especially Stephen Amell.

I think it's great that she's nominated and I wish her luck in her career but I don't think there's any way she can win this because even though she's in Three Ghosts a fair bit, she doesn't have that much to do. Kristin Lehman is nominated for an episode in which she tries to take down a very creepy Amanda Tapping playing a psychologist and Erica Durrance submitted an episode where she reacts to her brother dying and finally finding out her fiance's deep dark secret. (I don't know Carmen Moore's episode because my cable company cut me off APTN.) You can't compare EBR to either of them because Arrow has never asked her to do much more than 'quirky' or 'worried'. So while part of me is worried at Felicity being a damsel in distress given what they've done to Laurel, another part would like to see her being given the chance to show whether she has some real acting chops as Susannah Thompson and even Willa Holland has been given lately. But if it is Felicity that Slade kidnaps, what is Laurel doing on the island?

I really liked the doctor dude. That was a nice touch, and a call-back to the earlier episode. I think Sara went to Nyssa and the LoA for help. It was clear they couldn't do anything to Roy much less Slade and his army so it would be time to call out the very big guns. I will truly miss Moira. Not only was Susannah Thompson an actor who could make a silk purse out of the very hackneyed dialogue they gave her, I loved her Lady Macbeth ruthlessness to get what she wanted. She was a good counterpoint to the flat-out craziness of Slade and Malcolm Merlyn. I think it would have been too dangerous to see the grandchild because someone would have figured it out. With the paparazzi after Playboy Oliver, some enterprising tabloid reported would have done some digging if Moira had been paying visits to a baby. I would, however, be upset if she didn't hold a watching brief over the child since she kept talking about important family is. It's possible that having a baby would have changed Oliver but I think that's more true in fiction than in real life.

Since Laurel gave up on Oliver in disgust a number of times in the past two seasons, I would have expected her to be more concerned with Sara's scars than with hugging Oliver. Stalking Arrow and Canary outside the labs was just creepy. I don't understand why Kreisburg thought we would be so in love with Laurel when we found out how she handled knowing Oliver was the Arrow. She thought about it, talked to her father, bought his reasoning, and didn't tell. Those are the actions of a rational intelligent person. Why should we be sending up fireworks when Laurel finally behaves like a normal person would?

Diggle manipulated him into paying for the guard's medical bills early in season 1. Not saying that what Diggle did was wrong because it was a lesson Oliver needed to learn, but it was a manipulation.

I "needed" Oliver and Laurel together in season 1 to end it for good. (I shipped Tommy/Laurel because Tommy made Laurel likable, with Oliver she was a pain.) Now I need them to be blue dead as a relationship. Shakespeare couldn't find a believable way to write them together again.

I think I'm watching a different show than Andrew Kreisburg is making. http://www.greenarrowtv.com/arrow-andrew-kreisberg-talks-about-the-state-of-oliver-laurel/16823 Does he think that I am are rooting for Oliver and Laurel to get together in the end? Or even to share scenes together?

It wouldn't be too many people if the writers could write for multiple characters. Unfortunately they can't. Roy got Mirakuru-ed just before Sara came back and it would have been the perfect time to explore the effect on Roy and the people around him. But instead he just about disappeared for 4 episodes, and then he's back in the middle of a story with Thea. Isabel was prominent in the first part of the season and then disappeared, only to re-surface as Slade's associate. (Even if Summer Glau weren't available, they should still have been referencing her working at QC.) Thea who? until Slade kidnapped her. And Diggle and Felicity, part of the original Team Arrow which for many people was the best part of the show, have barely been there between Blast Radius and Deathstroke other than Suicide Squad for Diggle and ostensibly Time of Death for Felicity (which was more about the Lance sisters than Felicity herself). Sara is a strong character with ties to multiple characters and she's played by an actress who is great in the Black Canary persona. But unfortunately when Sara's in the present storyline as well as the flashbacks, she tends to take over the show. More balanced writing might be able to fix it but it hasn't so far..

This is actually the only part of it that makes sense to me. (Slade telling her that is, not Slade showing up at her apartment and Laurel opening the door to him.) Slade wants Oliver vulnerable and weak and part of that to have Oliver fighting on as many fronts as possible. Moira is already estranged from him, Thea is now angry at him because she believes Oliver kept the secret of her paternity from her for years, and Quentin is in jail. Not to mention Isabel is running QC for Slade. So if Laurel freaks out about Oliver = The Vigilante, as Slade is hoping she'll do, then Oliver will have to contend with her too, and he'll have no time to do anything about Slade. That said, I think they've tried just about everything to incorporate Laurel into the show and none of it has really worked, either because Laurel/KC doesn't fit or because it was handled sloppily (Laurel suspecting Sebastian Blood). Maybe I'm missing something but right now the only solution I can see for Laurel is to have her join Slade's side for the next season. It would provide storylines for Quentin, Sara and Thea as well as Oliver, and then maybe later they can bring her to Team Arrow in some form.

Is the show willing to explore a real darkness in Laurel? Or are they only throwing the idea in to see if the audience will buy it? I agree, addiction isn't a real darkness, it's an illness. And while believing that Oliver and Sara had died was traumatic, it's wasn't the sort of thing that should have stopped her life, the way losing both parents and going into foster care would for a younger person, or being raped could. Nor did it stop Laurel's life, she continued on to law school, passed the bar, got a good job and her own apartment and life. Sara, on the other hand, with the shipwreck, year with Ivo, League of Assassins and goodness knows what else, I could truly believe that she has a darkness if the show told me so. As Anatoli said "When did you get so scary?" It feels like the show wants us to sympathize with Laurel without her actually showing a darkness or going through what it takes to get it. Roy has his Mirakiru and his mother's addiction, Thea is learning about her parentage, Diggle had Afghanistan, Sara, Oliver and Slade all had their terrors, but the show is doing a half-assed job with Laurel. If they wanted her addiction to be a real crucible, it should have lasted longer, and brought her lower. As it was, it feels like it was just a hand-wave.

Oliver was set on doing something. In my experience, when someone is determined like that, telling them outright not to do a thing is a waste of breath. In terms of plotting, they needed Oliver at the trap and distracted, and also it was time for some more fight scenes. But if they wanted to write Oliver/Sara as a viable relationship, they should have had her strategizing with Oliver over what to do to get Thea back and fight Slade, Sara suggesting an alternative plan than going to the warehouse and the two of them do that. Sara and Oliver are good when it comes to fighting as a team but for strategizing, Diggle has been a better partner for him. But then, Oliver doesn't always listen to Diggle either. In which case Diggle tags along to clean up the mess.

They do have a history, and an understanding of each other that no one else has so I completely understand why they might fall into a relationship with each for comfort and support especially given the stress of dinner at Laurel's and Slade being in town. It may be the writing but while I can see that they care for each other a lot, I don't see them as loving each other, not the way Roy loves Thea or even as Moira loves Walter. Paul Blackthorne's non-verbal acting in one short scene in Salvation let me know how much Quentin still loves Dinah. With Sara and Oliver, it feels like it's comfortable sleeping with the other, like an old pair of slippers, rather than a real love. I also got the impression from the first part of s2 that Sara thinks she's too damaged to be in a relationship, or to be worthy of a relationship, so the show appears to have skipped a few beats and several conversations getting her from there to a relationship with Oliver.

If Laurel is any kind of a lawyer, or even if she has any common sense, she will realize that the police have no case against her father and won't give up Oliver to get Quentin out of jail. But I really don't hold out much hope of that. The Feb 5th interview at TVLine: As for whether Sara and Oliver are a couple now, “That’s actually part of the journey of these next five episodes,” reveals Kreisberg. “Oliver has not had many successful relationships, and part of him and Sara moving forward is [the question of], ‘Is this something that can work given both of our [pasts]?’” But you're right. We haven't really seen yet how Oliver and Sara function as a couple as opposed to a crime fighting duo, although the writers could have done something with their differences of opinion in Birds of Prey that would have let us know something more about both characters. If they break up now, it will remain a big hole in the story. And because it cannot be said too much, more Diggle please.

Maybe Oliver sleeping on a cot in the Arrow Cave was supposed to show how worried he was about Slade and wanting to be close to his weapons all the time. Even though Moira kicked him out, it's not like he couldn't afford a hotel room for a few weeks. One of the reasons that I really liked this episode was because it seemed to be spread out more equitably over most of the cast. Not only did Moira and Thea get some long overdue screen time, Roy got to call out Oliver, and Diggle and Felicity were back as more than background support for Team Arrow. Even Quentin had a role. I don't know if it's on purpose or because the writers have a hard time getting a grip on Sara's role on the show, or because they're setting up something specific, but since Sara got together with Oliver in Heir to the Demon, it's pretty much been about the two of them with a side of Slade, and the rest of the cast far behind. This show doesn't do relationships well. I think the best I've seen so far has been Diggle with Lyla and we've barely seen them. But somehow I didn't find Oliver and Sara being in a relationship to be that interesting in terms of the characters. It may have been because of the way they interact with each other (since they are pretty much two sides of the same character there not much conflict) or it may have been the storylines but while I thought they were great fighting partners, as an emotional couple it felt flat. If this was a trial run for a few years down the line, I hope they can find a way to make them as a couple more interesting and to give other characters more time, keeping it from becoming the Oliver And Sara Action Hour. I'm not expecting Oliver to break up with Sara just yet. The producers did say the next five episodes would explore their relationship but I took that to mean the penultimate block of five episodes, before the final block of five. Maybe Oliver and Sara will break up before the end of the season but I can't see anything that happened in this episode foreshadowing it. Laurel might be willing to spill Oliver's secret to the police to free Quentin (I wonder if Slade/Blood suggested that deal to the DA), but I can't see Sara doing it, especially as she herself is vulnerable to being caught.

Or the writers have been looking at their social media because I've noticed a lot of comments at various sites wanting more time spent on the original Team Arrow back again, and I wouldn't be surprised if their twitter reads the same. It made sense for Sara to be concerned about what was happening to her father though. What made no sense is for them to arrest Quentin instead of going after Slade. The news program at Laurel's apartment was saying there was a warrant out for Slade, and yet he still walks about town impervious.

When you wrote "I don't think he's at the point where he should be in a relationship with someone like that", I thought of AA and how you need to be wary of being in a relationship with another addict. Maybe their need to be a vigilante, for Oliver to right the wrong's of his parents and save the city, and for Sara to protect vulnerable women, is a form of addiction. I think Sara/Caity Lotz was another stroke of serendipity for them. She's like a strong spice which can make the food taste better but too much can also overwhelm the dish. I like your scenario of Sara and Oliver operating independently and occasionally teaming up. Laurel would be good on the villain side but I fear Marc Guggenheim loves her too much to turn her dar,