ReadMeLattice

This is such a good point. My husband and I actually do post on social media often--usually HAPPY pictures of our baby in different outfits, fun outings, our anniversary dinner, etc. Everyone goes through hard times. But if every post about your being a fairly new husband (they haven't been married for 20 years, they're basically newlyweds!) and a dad to a little girl is misery and slog, doubt and despair, and if you consistently use battlefield metaphors to describe your marriage...that's a really bad sign. I know that's because his relationship is legitimately difficult, but he also parlays it into this narrative of him as a hero conquering all. Dude, you're married and have one little kid, and you don't have a 9-to-5, much less three minimum wage jobs like probably many folks in your community. And neither does your wife. How horrific can your day to day actually be?

Damn, she's gonna be blinded by all that light AND sunshine?! lol. @druzy thanks for your timelines. I've said it before, but: you are doing God's work. Well, maybe not *God.* But some sort of reality television deity.

Yes, that's my point--that no one is saying it's abuse or as serious as the abuse on this show, just that it is worth critique. I personally think 11:30 daily is ridiculous, but I do understand that health conditions or particular work schedules (night shifts and such, as others have pointed out) could change that, of course. The thing is, we pretty much 100% know those things are not the case for Maci. Nor does she care for her children during the day. So what is she doing that she needs to sleep in? I think we all know the answer.

I don't think it's a big deal, it's not like it's abuse or something, I just think it's lazy. I also snarked on Chelsea for taking 17 years to complete her GED, I snark on Amber for having her butt permanently glued to the couch, I snark on Catelynn for the same thing, I snarked on Leah for quitting school 83 times...I'm not trying to be mean to Maci in particular, I just don't understand how she doesn't get bored and sick of it herself? You homeschool! You're clearly doing a lot! She's not a stay-at-home mom, much less work-at-home or homeschooling; she sends them to daycare. I just don't "get" the lazy thing. Aren't they interested in anything? Their kids, art, politics, even just going to the park? Cooking? Working? School? Reading? Do ANY of them read? I swear they found the laziest bunch of girls (and partners) possible for this show. Chelsea was lazy at first, but it seems like she's improved a lot. I thought Maci had also grown beyond her partying and lazing around stage, but this sort of changed my mind. And she doesn't seem depressed...it's not like she's been through major trauma like some of the others that, in my opinion, at least makes some of their behavior a little more understandable. I can feel bad for Cate, for example, while recognizing that she also doesn't do anything to help herself. Maci seems to have had a normal life except for being involved with Ryan. I swear that except for Chelsea, they've all majorly regressed. It's like they're 14 and MTV is their collective babysitter/Daddy with handouts.

Omg, if someone on this show calls themselves a "real man" or "real woman" one more effing time...

druzy, you do God's work bringing all this social media stuff to us. ;)

This! I HATE how a show that's ostensibly about teen pregnancy and subsequent parenting regularly makes a mockery of adoption and pretends that abortion doesn't exist. I thought at some point he quit his job to run TTM? Anybody know? All I can say is, I would be bored AF if all I did was sleep while my husband watched the kids and then spend all day not working, not going to school, and not taking care of my multiple children. I can see that being fun for a few days or when I was sick, maybe? Don't these people ever get bored or feel guilty?!

I'm THRILLED when I can sleep until 7 with an 8 month old. I have no problem with one parent taking the 'morning shift' and letting the other parent sleep until 9 or so if the other parent takes on bedtime or nighttime feedings or something, but nearly noon is inappropriate with 3 kids no matter your schedule, IMO.

Older foster kids in particular deserve a better family than Maci and Taylor...

I agree that it was immature, but I don't know if I'd be able to keep quiet if Ryan was my stepson's dad. I think I'd say worse. It's good I'm not on TV!

After all, it's not just a matter of "ok that's done, now you don't see Ryan and that's safer." That's Bentley's dad and this is sure to hurt him even if it's right. I'm sure he loves him and wants to spend time with Ryan even if he knows he isn't reliable. I don't know if she made the right decision, I just know that that would be an incredibly hard one to make. Chelsea had some of the same struggles...the line between "he's a fuckup but I'll let my kid see him sometimes for their own happiness" and "he is an active danger" can be a fine one, especially with folks like Jen and Larry in the mix enabling and lying for him.

On the one hand I don't get why Maci didn't do this earlier. This seems like a long time to wait for me. Maybe in TN it's harder to get a restraining order? On the other hand, I assume Jen and Larry have worked overtime to hide the worst of it from her, so even though she was likely aware of some of the issues, I doubt she knew the extent. Someone struggling with drug use doesn't necessarily mean they shouldn't see their child at all, and it seems like he was barely around much of the time anyway. Maybe it would take sh*t really hitting the fan to finally make that decision. Whatever the case, at least she's finally doing it now.

For real! And DAMN, what a sociopath. One can only hope they're granted the orders of protection! Harming animals is one of the truest signs of a monster.

Maybe at the gym? Or he took it at home and waited to send it to her until he was out and wanting to sext? Those are the only non sketchy options...everything else is suspect.

I don't have any idea what the answer is to the nature vs. nurture, blame vs. no blame, "when do we become accountable adults" debate, but I do often wonder what would change the path they're on. Once a week therapy ain't gonna cut it, nor is resort therapy. They'd have to find experts who specialize in... -witnessing DV as a child -growing up in a family of addicts -families of incarcerated individuals -being abused yourself as a child -adoption, specifically open adoption -teen pregnancy -the long term psychological effects of growing up on reality TV, being in the public eye in general -postpartum depression -codependent relationships and trauma bonding -substance abuse -binge eating Then they'd also have to be able to get Catelynn to admit her dependency on Tyler and for Tyler to see past his narcissism. Like holy shit who would this clinician or team of clinicians be, because I'd love for them to help solve my problems too. Lol!

Yes, this is important, too. Threatening to 'expose' Maci and talking shit about her, trying to start fights with Taylor, etc., when they knew damn good and well what their son was up to. Very disturbing.

I agree but think she might not even know what she's doing because the toxicity runs *that* deep. I don't think she and Tyler have ever matured past the age when they had Carly and are still locked in a 16 year old mindset--a *troubled* 16 year old mindset, not even an age-appropriate teenage mindset. I think she does try to manipulate, partly because it gives her an excuse and partly because she understandably likely had to learn how to get attention in her abusive home life with neglectful addict parents. I don't know how much either of them is aware that they're lying or hiding anything, because there's not much awareness there at all, just dysfunction...they're just like troubled children trying to be parents. They would really almost have to be reparented through intensive outpatient or constant monitoring, imo, to make any real difference. Like a special program for people who come from broken homes or out of the foster care system. I don't think simple outpatient therapy once a week is going to do the trick, or resort stays or state hospitals. Like, are they even smart enough to know what they're doing or to cover it up? The last thing they should be doing is having kids of their own, but here we are.

This is a good point that I hadn't thought of. They're obviously pretty much only filmed when being prompted by MTV to discuss Amber, so their choices are to lie and basically support her terrible behavior or tell the truth and risk her wrath.

Yeah, no wonder Jen was crying... For real, the first time I read this I thought, WOW that wouldn't have happened if he wasn't white.

Love how Ty Ty made sure to let everybody know he slept on the floor. He REALLY wants people to know what a gentleman he is.

Baby haircuts are scary!!! I'm so nervous about taking mine for hers. Aubree's getting very pretty--she looks a lot like Adam, though. I also see a lot of Randy there.

I assume the more dramatic ones (Jenelle, Amber, Kail) are better for ratings? I wonder if folks would watch if it was the Chelsea, Gary, Cole, Kristina, Barb, Vee and Jo show? Some people would include Maci, but meh.

Yes, I respect him so much. I wish he'd lose weight too. I know it's hard, but I hate to think of Leah going back to Amber if something happened to him. My God, can you imagine? He obviously isn't lazy, so I wonder if he relies on food for comfort.

Someone else said Chelsea's thread was their happy spot...it made me think what mine was. Gary, Barb, and Vee are my favorites. Totally respect her for her drive and maturity! She could easily "go off" on Kail but she doesn't, and she has ambition and smarts. She'll do well. Seems like a family person and independent at the same time. Jo must thank his lucky stars that he didn't end up marrying Kail.

I feel you, I'm all over the place on her too. I'm never really sure about the course this thread will take...sometimes it seems to me like people will be mad at Chelsea no matter what and criticize her, and sometimes it seems the tiniest joke means you're a jealous hater. I don't see why the thread *has* to be 100% positive from every poster, that's a bit unreasonable (and nobody is perfect), but I do think sometimes it gets overly negative in ways she doesn't deserve (jmho, I respect everybody else's, different or not). For the chillest member, she evokes a lot of strong emotions from people! Maybe that's a sign that MTV doesn't need to only highlight abusers and felons to get strong fan reactions. *Hint hint* And her house isn't that messy, it seems perfectly fine. People should see mine on its worst days!!