ReadMeLattice

Yeah, I do know he manages rental properties or something and that is absolutely work, but he waited a long-ass time to start doing that. Vee doesn't work full time either, I don't think. Now, I totally hate Kail (and, uh, she doesn't work full-time either) and I'm absolutely Team Vee/Jo on this one and hope they get everything they ask for...but I've always gotten a bit of a lazy/wanting a payday thing from former aspiring rapper Jo. Again, Kail is WAY worse so nobody needs to jump on me, but I'm not feeling some deep sympathy for Jo or anything in this case. I just hate PFA-every-time-someone-doesn't-do-my-bidding, Suburban-shaming, cultural-appropriation-queen Kailyn enough to want her to lose. Badly.

I forgot about Luis! Dude sure talked a good game but he was a straight-up deadbeat. Roxanne also seems to have somewhat chilled out so far? Anybody else notice that?

Yes for sure (I didn't think you were saying he was controlling either, just to be clear), Doris is right. And they're right to be worried. I'd be terrified about the legal ramifications, because Adam as the default parent would be a NIGHTMARE. I'm just always a little weirded out by the number of kind of unnecessary conversations that happen with Aubree/in front of Aubree- seems like a lot for her.

For real...I'm not saying people can't have pride, but you didn't exactly grow up as royalty or work your way piecemeal out of poverty. You're rich mostly out of pure luck? Calm down about "just having a Suburban," if you hadn't gotten pregnant at 16 you'd probably have a lot less than that.

That's a good point, @Scarlett45- he seems to have a touch of possessiveness towards either Aubree or Chelsea or both, which is perfectly healthy and normal so I didn't want to say it as he's clearly not a controlling person (Chelsea seems to run that relationship, if anybody). That's a perfectly fine impulse, but he should definitely make sure it's not affecting Aubree in some way. She has to come to a decision about Cole/Adam with time and zero pressure, not even slight.

OMG, you know she will, though. I'm happy for Chelsea but dear God, I've never seen someone so eager to pretend to the world that she never had a child by somebody else. Just live with it and be happy that you've made something great out of your life regardless! You found a great guy, you made a bunch of money from the show, just be chill with it.

Yeah, I've always felt that the maturity levels there went Vee, then Jo, then Kailyn. I noticed that Vee jumped in to say "well, we just have normal lives," to tone down his slight drama. Vee has a good effect on him as she's naturally more mature, while Jo (while better than Kailyn, obviously) has the capacity to be dragged down somewhat, especially in conflicts.

I think his thing about "a different lifestyle" was a little dramatic- what, he lives a middle-class lifestyle with you and an upper middle-class lifestyle with Kailyn? Yeah, I think Isaac is fine, lol. Still, he should get whatever child support he's owed, just like any mom should. Kailyn always thinks the rules magically don't apply to her.

For real- I love how the show showed us her version first to make us go "hmmm...." and then Jo was very clearly the one telling the truth. I do think both of them are a little materialistic. I doubt Jo is truly "struggling" in any real way, and he was a little too indignant about child support before and insisted they not go to court (though I do believe that he probably did bring it up with Kailyn while she most likely didn't before filing. She LOVES filing court orders willy-nilly). And sorry but 9 months of back child support seems a little...off. But she should have dropped the child support long ago once she figured out that she was obviously making a lot more and it could be turned around on her easily- that's just smart. But Kail...isn't.

I know that Cole is really a good guy but he likes to signal that to us a little too often to seem realistic. I get that he probably feels awkward on camera and he's genuinely sweet, but every single scene just feels like he and Chelsea are just informing us again of how awesome he is.

Does anyone else think Javi isn't into Lauren at all? She was second runner-up in his summer of apparently unprotected sex and she was the one who happened to be ovulating that month. He's a bigger mess than I thought, and she's trying way too hard to pretend it's more than that. OMG Kailyn is now whining about driving a Suburban and living in a "not great" house, I fucking hate this girl.

OK, so at first I was like "hmm..." about Kailyn because yes, Jo *was* the one to initially say that they shouldn't go to court and should instead talk things out. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, etc. Kailyn presented it as him just going to his lawyer with no precedent, which, given their history, wouldn't have been great of him. But then he spills the tea and actually she's still been getting child support from HIM every month while Isaac sleeps on a couch?! Lady, come on, you have to know your lies are going to be exposed.

Nathan really showed his ass in that scene when he hung up on his mom. His mom DARED to suggest that he ever plays any role in the conflicts between him and Jenelle (I think all she said was "it takes two" or "you all don't get along..." hardly insulting) and he called it belittling and hung up on her? What a narcissistic baby. I wish some of these kids had actual adults in their lives. Kaiser doesn't have a single one.

never mind

At most that I've seen, yes. !!!!

The head attire is a huge thing now. I had a hard time choosing newborn photos because the bows, poses, and props are all SO over the top to me. Don't get me started on gender reveal parties complete with gifts and cakes- I'm a curmudgeon.

Honestly seems like Javi was the trapper in this situation, though both are dumb. I’m sure he told each of them whatever they wanted to hear. Sleeping with 3 women and begging at least 2 of them to have a baby with you screams desperate ho. He really seems to have some sort of addiction. I agree, it’s not an either/or situation. Growing up means you’re accountable for your actions but it doesn’t mean that trauma and damage go away. The point where people lose me is when they try to say Kail treated or treats *Suzi* badly... Suzi is owed about as much by Kail as Jenelle is by her kids, honestly, in my book. Aka absolutely fuck all. If Jenelle’s kids treat her poorly she’ll deserve every second.

Yeah, TMZ is not exactly high end journalism but gotta hand it to them, they’re usually correct. These bitches with their Starbucks cups and Klassy Kourt heels, man...

I personally believe that Ali’s protests are related to her family’s attitude. Where did she learn them from? We get most of our attitudes from our families. Unconsciously or consciously, she picks up their beliefs. We learn how to think about virtually everything from our parents. and yes, i know why you asked and these are conversations I have a lot because that “compromise of daily life” is an everyday reality for my family- quite frankly I just thought your tone was a bit unnecessarily aggressive for an online conversation about people we don’t know and didn’t appreciate it so didn’t feel like answering. I don’t “think restrictions should be placed on her 24/7,” I think her family should listen to the specialists they’ve hired if they continue to see them, and I know what the “she’ll walk no matter what” attitude does to folks. It’s not good, ever, except maybe for the family’s morale, but not for the disabled person themselves. I agree that the attitude is common and pervasive. That’s why it’s so harmful.

Not to mention he cheated on Miranda himself.

I do agree with you that Corey is worse with regard to the disability, actually. That used to not get a very good reaction around here, lol-it was basically taboo to say because Corey was very heavily beloved, perhaps because Leah was doing a bit of hot-mess dangerous driving and cheating at the time. I've never personally seen Ali protesting, but we are all free to have our own opinions. As for the disabilities in my immediate family (husband, niece & brother), yes. They are similar. I'm not sure why that is specifically relevant and that frankly feels a little personal to me, so I will just say- yes. I have direct experience with this, though certainly not this exact type of MD. I think the posts from Papa Joe that they were 'proving doctors wrong' with images of Ali playing sports were very clearly pushing the idea that they could somehow conquer the disorder through prayer alone, and pushing the sports on her. I do not agree that there is more of a quality of life to not using the wheelchair rather than using it, given what Dr. Tsao has said about the deterioration of her muscles and how it works (use it and lose it, essentially). On the contrary, I know many wheelchair using adults who were relieved when the adults in their lives finally let them use mobility aids without judgment. Without the wheelchair, she falls regularly; with it, she could have more freedom. I've seen in real time the long-term effects of Corey's 'she WILL walk down the aisle, I KNOW IT' attitude, and it's not pretty. It's understandable, but it hurts people.

Yes, exactly. I think people can often relate to the nondisabled parents more than to the actual disabled person, but the person actually having to deal with this the most is Ali, not her parents. They are suffering, yes, but she’s the person who will actually have to navigate a life with MD, whether it’s short or long. They have to give her the tools to do that, not just focus on their own pain, however real it is.

I certainly *knew,* I’m saying that scene made it more immediate and visceral. I don’t think it’s nitpicking to say that both parents should obey medical orders after seeing a specialist, get a properly accessible home, not act like using a wheelchair is a shameful sign of failure when it’s her primary means of future mobility and freedom from atrophy, and not push her to play sports regularly (this isn’t one trick or treating episode or a single birthday party- both Corey and Leah have acted like they can somehow “prove the doctors wrong” if they just push enough T-ball and cheerleading, when those are far from the only available fun after-school activities). I also just don’t understand seeing the specialist at all if they don’t plan on listening to him. It seems contradictory to spend all that time and money to visit him if they truly think that following his advice would make for a lower quality of life for Ali anyway and aren’t going to do what he says. Leah straight up lied to Dr. Tsao's face. That's really doing a disservice to her daughter. Maybe it’s because disability is an everyday part of my life so I have a different perspective, but I’ll never think those things are ok or excusable. I do see what you’re saying, though- I don’t judge her for her addiction (I think that must be common in high stress scenarios like this) or them for their suffering, but I do judge them both for medical neglect. I feel for them deeply, but at the end of the day it can’t all be about their pain. Ali is the one who has the disorder, not them, and it has to be about her.

Yes, in some ways I really don’t see that Chelsea has moved far beyond 18-19. She hid behind Randy and now Cole. It’s all very high school.

Our daughter had lung surgery earlier this year for a congenital lung issue (thankfully went perfectly and she’ll never have to deal with it again!)- hospitals are actually much more wheelchair inaccessible than you might think. It’s ridiculous but true. So I believe it. I know it’s not a popular opinion but Chelsea’s behavior was so childish and immature. This is your child’s safety and a court order, not a catty fight with a mother in law.