ReadMeLattice

DYING. Yes, it's always a performance that everybody has to know about, and woe betide the person (mom, boyfriend, friend, judge, MTV producer, cop, or otherwise) who sees her crying and doesn't immediately fall to their knees and do whatever she wants!

Yes, this. He is fucking trash. Who treats someone abusing their kid as if it's gossip/fodder for "getting back at his ex?" The way he talked about it was more about his own ego/"see, I'm better than Jenelle's new man" than anything. What the fuck is with these people? Sorry for all the swearing.

And we've seen the way these things...um..."work" based on that "trial" (I hesitate to use that word with sincerity) in Jenelle's neck of the woods.

Every time I watch this show I'm struck by how incredibly immature everyone is. I feel like we're still watching teenagers and they're my age...Leah creating drama and Briana and Kail living off of it like high school mean girls, Javi and Bri discussing MARRIAGE after 2 seconds of long-distance dating, Jenelle and David playing "in love 4ever" even though they live a nightmare...I would think they were 17/18 still if I didn't know better. Yes, she's truly heinous.

To be fair even though Nessa grates on my nerves, I think she (as an MTV rep) was probably just told the party lines on those issues. "We decided not to work together anymore" leaves less room for a lawsuit and public dragging than "Yes, we fired him." Yeah, very true, but my dislike for Javi has nothing to do with supporting Kail and everything to do with his thirsty famewhoring ass. lol.

No one could ever convince me that Dave isn't getting physically abusive with Kaiser. I don't trust Nathan to get anything done about it or be any better, though. Barb and Doris, and whoever Dave's mom is, must just be sick about their kids and how they turned out. I hate Kail with every bone in my body but I do believe her that Javi changes around the cameras. He and Bri are a fame whore match made in hell. Aubree seems smart and able to express herself very well! Cole is a gem. Adam is scary AF and hearing about the name change over and over was honestly a little tiresome. This is why kids shouldn't automatically get the dad's name anyway. He's never been a parent, why should Aubree have his name in the first place? They're really really trying with the storylines as usual, I see--why do I care about what Leah thinks about Kailyn's ex and the other TM2? It's too much of a clusterfuck to be interesting.

Yeah, I think it was much more about the viewers than the advertisers. I don't think most advertisers care much about legal porn or nude modeling/stripping unless they're explicitly a family brand. This is MTV, there's been far worse on all their shows. As far as the demographics of the average viewer/leghumper, from what I can tell many of them have multiple kids of their own by different partners and don't seem to be very successful themselves (obviously a generalization). Looking down on Farrah probably makes them feel better about themselves, while looking down on the others would be like condemning their own behavior.

Yeah, I get that it's not legal but I don't personally see it as different from drinking in terms of morality or harm to the body. If anything it's less severe. I do think the legality is important in that if he is ever arrested, they could potentially get investigated by CPS and IMO it's not fair to put your child at risk so you can smoke a J.

STOP CALLING HER BOOBOO

They are total cuties!

By the way, in my mind these people are all 19, mostly because of their behavior. I'm only about a year and a half older than Catelynn and Tyler. They're 26 years old! Dear Lord. I was in my fourth adult (not like Farrah adult) job by then, teaching college kids and over halfway through a PhD. And frankly, I don't think I'm that mature (I'm a terrible cook and a worse housekeeper). I thought I had it easy and knew people doing a lot more--folks who were firefighters, nurses, in med and law school, devoted parents of multiple kids, on their second grad degree, buying homes and apartments with money they'd actually *earned,* or just holding it down working multiple jobs. Even one foster parent! This is just embarrassing.

I definitely used to post like that about my partners...WHEN I HAD MY FIRST BOYFRIEND AT AGE 14. I also went through a bit of a sappy-online period when I first got engaged and married. A few months of excitement, then back to normal--kind of like how it's expected to post endless pics of your newborn, but 20 pics a day of a kindergartener (1 P.M. SHE DREW A THING!!!!!! 1:12 P.M. SHE ATE A SNACK!!!!) gets old. If it's suddenly happening constantly like this, what, 3? years into the marriage, my NonExpert Opinion is that something is wrong and they're headed straight for divorcetown. Man, the men in her family REALLY like that quote.

Yeah, I agree. Depression definitely made me unlikable and unattractive (as it does to most people, I would wager), and I only let a select few people see me go through it for that reason. I get that she's on TV and I'm not, so it's part of her "job" I guess...but it's hard in general to watch someone go through, and then when it's someone as lazy and ugh as Catelynn, it's difficult to watch without judging. I do appreciate the effects of long-term childhood trauma, but watching someone inflict it on their own kid in turn is...f*cked. And I DO judge because every time she talks about herself, I think of how bitchy she is towards Theresa.

YESS I am here for Jephte's open disdain for Ryan. Yeah, I get it--narcissism and lack of self esteem can present very similarly. They're kind of two sides of the same coin. I thought I saw some cocky moments from Jon, but I took it as more trying to cover up for 1) how embarrassed he was by Molly's treatment of him and 2) covering up for his general lack of self-esteem to begin with (he kept saying "I'm a loser" in this last episode, and I thought that was notable; not "Molly is a jerk" like Ryan, the person I really think is this show's narcissist, would have said). I just think it's really telling that Jon has never seemed to blame Molly, who seems to deserve at least the lion's share, while Ryan has blamed Jackie for everything, even things that are pretty inarguably his fault.

I agree, though I think there's a movement around it because it started off as a sexual harassment and rape-related thing, which women do experience at least somewhat disproportionately (from the evidence we currently have, anyway). It's seeming to take on other areas of abuse/harassment now, and I do hope that more men (and LGBT folks! I think they've been largely left out too) come forward with their stories as it expands. Regardless, yes, I agree wholeheartedly with you that Jon certainly didn't deserve that no matter what he did or how he acted behind the scenes. Molly is one nasty, mean-spirited person. I hope Jon breaks it off and never looks back. I've seen some people saying he has a big ego, but he actually seems to have low self-esteem to me. I'm also just curious about what the show left out in general. Not to blame Molly any less, she's a cold-hearted bitch, but just out of curiosity. I'm sure they crafted the story. If anything, I think they may have made her look a little better so the experts wouldn't look so bad.

I agree that that is messed up, but not necessarily that it's gendered. I've seen the same be said about many female victims of psychological AND sexual abuse...what was she wearing? Did she lead him on? Was she a tease/bitch/nagging? Was she being annoying? Did she ask for it? etc. I mean, that's pretty much constant for anyone who comes out about abuse. I think it's just hard in general, regardless of gender, to believe that some people are just plain shitty/evil and that it doesn't have to be mutual or caused by much of anything. It's much easier for most reasonable people to believe it's just a fight between two people rather than a perpetrator and victim. Add in a reality show known for purposely deceiving viewers and it gets really confusing. I personally do think MAFS is hiding some things from viewers, as usual and as in past seasons, but that it doesn't excuse Molly's behavior. She said what she said and she was exposed, as she should have been. However, I'd still like to know the full story...I always get the sense they leave the juiciest bits out.

I would be so embarrassed taking photos with Ryan when everyone knows he's not into her.

This is true, but when April was Cate's age, she was the same way or much worse. Cate's in her 20s. When April was in her 20s she was still doing drugs and letting her boyfriends beat up on her kids. If we were seeing her and Butch as young people, we'd be angry at them while feeling sorry for them at the same time, just as with Cate and Tyler. We're seeing April much later in life, with the benefit of some degree of hindsight, so comparing them either way really isn't fair. Cate was abused, but so was April, I'm sure, as you point out. April is better now, but she's many, many years older. Cate will probably go the same sad way...figuring out her sh*t far, far too late. The thing is, if anyone could figure out the magic secret to overcoming intergenerational trauma they'd be a billionaire. Nobody has so far.

I honestly feel nothing for April; she's a total abusive, disgusting POS and deserves whatever she gets IMO. Catelynn is "better" in that she doesn't seem to be exposing Nova to violence from partners (Cate was beaten up by April's boyfriends, yes? I'd honestly be shocked if she hadn't been molested) and isn't an addict (at least not to anything but pot), but the standards are so mind-numbingly low that it's...just so depressing. And that's basically luck, she really didn't do anything herself to get there. There are some things you can't be forgiven for. I don't think I'd ever forgive someone like April for abusing me that seriously...but Cate might just find herself in the same or a similar position with Nova if she doesn't straighten up. I truly hope she breaks the cycle, but it doesn't seem to be going in that direction. She really isn't ready or suited for motherhood, but Nova's already here. She actually seems to be getting worse and more selfish, not better. Such is the way of trauma, it actually gets worse with time, that's the bizarre truth--but when you have kids involved, you can't afford to go there, and it can't be about you. On the other hand, I'm sure that to be the way she was, April had to have experienced trauma as a child as well. Intergenerational trauma is such a depressing, complex mess. It takes someone practically superhuman, either very high IQ, very hard-working, or very devoted and abnormally compassionate, to break out of it. I frankly don't think Catelynn is that person. At all.

Yes, this. I think Cate absolutely does have PTSD from her childhood and the adoption (honestly, anyone would, and most people with PTSD are not vets) and, IMO, clearly suffers from depression. I'm sure she has triggers and panic attacks and flashbacks and that those are very real. However, it's not just that this doesn't excuse her bad behavior...I actually think they're not even related. Narcissism and selfishness are not symptoms of PTSD. Having a kid that you don't actually plan to care for (by far the worst thing she's done, imo--the way Nova is being treated breaks my heart) is not a symptom of PTSD. Not caring about your spouse's health and treating life as a permanent vacation is not a symptom of PTSD. Those things are just her character flaws, and possibly her inherited legacy, as her mother, and most likely her father, are the same way. Mental health is just their latest "passion project" and the latest excuse for their behavior...before it was being oh so mistreated by Brandon and Theresa, before that it was being upset over Carly...they'll likely never move forward in life substantially. Same thing with Tyler...I do think he has mental health issues and trauma (obviously) of his own, but his grandstanding and narcissism, IMO, aren't symptoms of that. They are both selfish people, and very concerned with what people think. Tyler is very vain and into his image, and Catelynn is invested in her laziness. Thinks there should be a handout for everything. The way she and Tyler talk about their adoptive parents is as if they are a king and queen who sacrificed their firstborn to two lonely beggars rather than pregnant teens from abusive backgrounds who got lucky in finding a nice adoptive family. I often find myself sympathizing more with Tyler than with Cate on the show, but then changing my mind when I see his social media posts, lol. He milks it to the extreme and loves to be fawned over.

No I know, me too, lol, sorry if that wasn't clear.

I'm thin and blonde, lol--and not to disparage a fellow Thin and Blonde, but Molly is a bitch. My two guesses are that she's either really into alpha males/bad boys who are going to toss her around in bed and not take her shit (remember the "he's not acting like a man, he's acting like a boy" complaints?) or she's only into super rich dudes and he doesn't fit the monetary bill enough for her. Thing is, my guess is that Jon wouldn't be averse to either one--he seems like the type who'll wind up very financially successful, and he seems like he'd be up for anything in the bedroom. She's written him off for some reason, and we likely won't ever know the *real* reason.

Ryan is an alcoholic. Yes, he's also selfish and all that and a total douche to boot, but ultimately I think that's what his issues boil down to. Everything he does and everything he fights for seems to be a way to angle to get another drink. He seems like the type to pregame, then go out and drink at dinner, then bar hop, then want to come home and drink again. Most of their fights seem to be either because he's already drunk or because he's mad that she doesn't want to drink more. And Jackie definitely doesn't seem like a prude when it comes to drinking, so he seems like he's doing *a lot*. That's likely also why he wants to spend so much time without her...because it's a chance to drink more with guys who won't look down on it.

I tend to agree. And I'm IN NO WAY defending Molly--she's obviously a faker and a liar, and seems like someone who's never been called on her BS. However, I will say that I found the whole thing a little confusing. Maybe it was just wonky editing, but I really couldn't follow the recording. She called him disgusting but it really sounded like she meant "for recording me." That's still absolutely NOT ok to say and nothing could justify it, and I have no issue believing Molly is a cruel person, but I don't think we'll ever know the whole story. Which is frustrating, not because I want more evidence that Molly sucks (don't need it) but because I think it would be a much more interesting story if we knew the truth. Did he say something crude in his quest for sex? She says he said some nasty things to her, too, in that fight--what were they? & again, he's obviously a much better person than her, but I just came away from that whole interaction more confused than ever about wtf is going on. I didn't feel like we got a complete picture of their issues. I honestly think Molly seems like the type who's either hyperfrigid OR such a closet freak that Jon's lack of dominance turns her off. Homegirl is wound TIGHT. I kept picturing Jon pushing her into a wall and getting alpha--I frankly think she'd go for it.

I recently got a Twitter account too and this is my constant struggle. Especially because I use it for work and TM is my dirty little secret...