ReadMeLattice

The pain from my recurring ovarian cysts was so bad I could barely walk at times, and had to go to the emergency room. I was surprised by this, too. I'm not saying she doesn't have it, but I think it's being overdramatized significantly. Maci is also a known liar so I really just don't trust her narratives about things.

Yeah, I like Gary, but he can really be obnoxious. I remember once he told Leah something about the birds and the bees and "your mama taught me all that" (*chuckle chuckle wink wink*) and Kristina looked so awkward. He can be really inappropriate, but seeing his mom and dad, I'm definitely not surprised anymore. I really think he should knock it off with the teasing. It gets old FAST. He's matured immensely in many other ways, time to grow up there too.

Seriously, I can't even imagine what, say, Bentley or Jace or Carly is going to feel when they watch these episodes when they're older...it seemed harmless when they were babies but some of them are about to reach double digits.

Well, that and Farrah and Chelsea seem to be the only two who know how to use a damn condom. Kail, Maci, Jenelle and Bri are out here having 73 soulmates bang them without condoms yet somehow that's ok with MTV...I doubt they get tested for STDs.

I don't think it's "above reproach" any more than anything else is above reproach, but as @GreatKazu pointed out, the only reason it's important that it's legal (IMO) is that plenty of crimes, even felonies, are openly committed on this show--child abuse, domestic violence, Matt's stealing, multiple people driving while high and endangering people's lives and the lives of their own children--yet the porn is the issue? It's just not consistent at all. I would also personally like to ask Freeman if he's ever *watched* porn and thus contributed to the industry. I wouldn't be in it myself, but I don't pretend that most men and probably at least half of women haven't watched it at some point, and in that way I have an issue with the hypocrisy there. Tyler and Ryan are two of the biggest detractors about porn, but Tyler went to a strip club on camera. Ryan has obviously watched *more* than his share of porn. And Queen Maci and her hipster boyfriend have never ever deigned to watch porn? I sincerely doubt it--she made a barely-clothed twerking video for Instagram and is a mom herself. I personally think porn is pretty weird and gross, but if you consume something, I just don't personally think you get to knock the people who produce the things you consume. I think we do probably have a porn issue in this country...but that's an issue of everybody who watches, sells, AND participates in it, not just the stars themselves. To me it's like blaming only the prostitutes but not the johns or the pimps or their wives who look the other way. It reminds me of people who love going to McDonald's at 3 AM but then mock the people who work in fast food. But hey, they'll take the convenience when it suits them! And Freeman was all too willing to making $ off of Farrah's notoriety for several seasons. He works at MTV, for God's sake! It's incredibly exploitative and not respectable at all. So I just don't get the logic. It's clearly just to cater to audiences' particular morals, not out of any real problems he sees with it. Their shows constantly feature hookups, strippers, porn, threesomes, blah blah blah. Just trying to explain my perspective on why it's so weird that they're making a big deal out of the porn thing, not arguing. I respect that everybody has a different take on this issue.

Seriously. Porn is people getting screwed on camera, but at least it's in a fun way. In the shows Freeman sells, people are constantly getting screwed, too. It's abuse porn.

God why does Chelsea never tell Adam about these things? I'm sure he'd run RIGHT OVER. lol

Damn, that was a backwards mess. Gary's a good guy but really needs to get a handle on the weight. He also could push his mom's buttons less, it's a bit much. His mom & dad are both cheating/cray pieces of work. I can't believe I heard that much about their sex life...?!?!?! How TF are they both comfortable with that? The deadbeat egg donor doesn't need to be discussed.

Emotional support animals are absolutely not the same as service animals and have virtually none of the same protections.

I would assume it was like reliving the loss of Carly over again. Yeah, I wasn't trying to go hard or anything--just thinking aloud about how nobody really has the answers to these things. The way we've set things up is basically that wealthy people can traipse off to fancy rehabs but then still get cut loose like everybody else when they're back. Meanwhile, poorer folks get a state hospital that's similar to jail or nothing at all. And then the way you have to go to therapy here because of the health care system is very odd and appointments are hard to keep for depressed people, anyway. I totally agree with you that I'll believe she'll take her mental health seriously when I see it, but our mental health care system is certainly tangled and strange (to me, anyway).

I'm really confused about this too. I've known people who really seemed to struggle with PCOS from an early age and others for whom it came on later after a hormonal shift, gaining weight, etc. It's a syndrome so it's a little more elusive than just, 'ok I have this,' and technically you don't even need to have cysts to have the syndrome. You can manage the symptoms and still get pregnant, which is why it's weird that she presents it as 'this causes my infertility.' So I'm just super confused. Is she self-diagnosing? Maybe she has some of the symptoms? She does seem to have thin hair and hair loss, which is one of the issues you can get...the whole thing is just REALLY weird. And agree, she blames it for everything in her life. I'm wondering if some people confuse symptoms of depression and anxiety, which can cause irregular periods and such, with PCOS. I don't know, though, I just don't get Maci or believe a lot of what comes out of her mouth. Yes, the early pregnancy tests definitely make this an issue! I saw this all the time in my pregnancy support group, people knew about a miscarriage 2 days after conception and it takes a toll on many. Other people just shrug it off and that's fine too! Also, I would assume that Cate has extreme trauma regarding pregnancy and birth. The first time she was pregnant resulted in extreme stress and lifelong depression because she didn't take her child home with her. I'm assuming that what Cate is dealing with is FAR beyond a miscarriage. That's why I'm not going to compare my own experiences with birth & pregnancy to hers...my child went straight home with me. I've never experienced giving birth at 16 and never spending a night at home with that baby, while knowing they were home with another couple. I can't even imagine, even if it was my own choice. I think if someone feels it's a large clot that's totally OK and valid, and if someone grieves the loss like they would a child it's totally OK and valid. Everyone's reaction to anything re: birth/miscarriage is so different.

That's true too. I think Tyler might have more potential than Cate in terms of career and education. I do think Cate is a little kinder and less arrogant than him at heart too (thinking of how she initially thought of Brandon's and Teresa's rules versus how she thinks of them now after being convinced by Tyler). Both are worse when together. But they're deciding to be. And that's their mutual problem.

I've got to strongly strongly strongly agree. Both halves of a codependent couple are narcissistic to an extent. With an equal or superior partner, he wouldn't be able to play God. With someone smarter, more conventionally attractive, more accomplished, etc, he wouldn't seem so magical in comparison. He definitely gets something out of their relationship. He had many chances to leave. He didn't because it does him a world of good in his mind. This became much clearer to me when they were on Couple's Therapy. He outright said that part of the reason he stayed was because of what people would say on social media if he left. He milks Cate's problems for all they are worth, maybe even more than she does. He'd be exposed as utterly mediocre with any other partner.

Preach.

This isn't exactly small talk, but do any of y'all watch The Grace Report's videos on TMOG/TM2 on YouTube? Her commentary is hilarious!

Right, like, OK, there are things you wish had been different about your upbringing and your feelings were hurt. I'd believe you if you did something different, but she's much worse!

Yeah, he has those weird speech patterns like Farrah does. Things meant to sound profound or fancy but that don't make any sense. I swear, I used to feel for Farrah's parents a little bit in the beginning. But with Debz OG's famethirsty wedding and rap career, and Michael's adamant defense of Farrah so he can keep the gravy train coming...I'm not feeling that generous towards them anymore.

For all my statements in the other thread...I agree with this, too. I'm really conflicted about her. Her patterns are very confusing. I feel you! I'm working at home full time now but usually the babysitter has my baby in the next room...today she's out all day with her grandparents and I am super sad. :( Can people stop doing this face? I hate to sound all fuddy-duddy but duckface is very 2007, can we stop now?

This, for sure. A 30-day rehab stay every time you have a depressive episode likely won't end well, but after everything she's dealt with over the years, from the childhood abuse and addiction to the pregnancy and adoption to now the miscarriage and ongoing issues...I'd say 30 days is brief to try to get her life even slightly back on track. Maybe it took her a few tries to really commit. But 30 days really isn't even that long; many people stay 90+ days before they even feel comfortable going home. I seriously don't like Cate. I find her annoying, immature, and arrogant. But the fact is that she's had a legitimately hard life. Better to do the stay while she's still in her 20s and has a hope of reversing the patterns.

This. I think the denial of it is much worse than saying you do it, and is a sign that the way Farrah is approaching it isn't healthy. I've personally known some legal sex workers (one who did mainstream porn, one who was a nude model for Playboy-esque mags) when I lived on the West Coast. The ones I knew were in grad school and doing it temporarily for the money, so frankly I don't know about the industry as a whole (obviously if you're in grad school that tends to be a different demographic than people walking the street/essentially being human trafficked). If anything they had VERY strict boundaries because they didn't want their kids to be negatively affected by anything. They enjoyed what they did, it was flexible, and they didn't seem bothered by it at all, but they also seemed to be very risk-aware. Farrah seems to be somehow unaware that she does porn, or unwilling to admit it, which means that she can't be open or appropriate about her boundaries or think critically about it and how to integrate or separate her work and home lives with any degree of maturity.

I get very creepy vibes from him, too. Something has always seemed "off" about him, and I always got "manager of Farrah's *entertainment* career wink wink" overtones from his behavior/the way he talked. Like, is she a bitch to him? Yeah, absolutely. But I've always felt like he allowed it because 1) either he let something really bad happen to her in childhood and now feels bad about it, 2) he's making money off of her porn, or both.

I don't disagree, but the thing is, *nobody* seems to really know what actually helps depression. You're right that many people deal with it...many people also develop addictions, commit suicide, abuse other people due to their own pain, etc., etc. Our postpartum suicide rates are skyrocketing in this country, making our maternal mortality rates the highest in the developed world, and meds don't work or can actually exacerbate things for large swathes of the population. I don't know if most people really 'find a way to push through.' I think most, or at least a lot, just deal with quiet, simmering pain and desperation all the time. Some die, some get divorced, some go to jail, some develop addictions they can't hide and some (usually richer) folks develop ones they can, at least for a while. So while I don't disagree that the rehabs aren't likely to be magical cure-alls and might not be the best thing...does anybody really know how to appropriately deal with it on a consistent basis for the majority of the population? Given our mental health epidemic, it doesn't seem so to me. Our mental illness rates are rising, not falling. I don't mean to seem all Debbie Downer, and I do think Cate is lazy and annoying. But it seems like she's at least doing something now, while she didn't do much to help herself or jump start her recovery for many years.

I seriously can't stand those things. I have some friends who say them every day. I don't get it but to each their own, I guess.

I want to applaud this 8,000 times. I veer back and forth because I don't really even *like* Cate. But I'm sorry...sometimes you literally just can't pick yourself up and dust yourself off. Sometimes it's as hard to take a walk around the block as it would be for somebody else to complete boot camp. Sometimes you sleep for hours or can't sleep at all and don't know why. Sometimes memories from a childhood trauma when you were 8 come back in a rush when you're 20, or 30, or 60, and you literally can't move on--that why it's *not* "most people," it's not typical, it's a mental illness. That's why it's an illness and not normal. So it's all well and good for me to sit here and say she should be doing this or that or could do this but...I agree with you. Also, a lot of therapists just aren't very helpful, and even getting to appointments to shop around feels like running eight marathons if you're truly deeply depressed. So there's that. I dealt with a lot of abuse as a kid, and was raped later, and I've been there. I've managed to move beyond it but I had a lot of privileges Cate never did. Everyone has different baseline IQs, coping skills, etc., and the "nurture" part of the equation dealt Cate a big ol' series of whammies. So...yeah. Maybe she didn't stick with it at first and maybe she hasn't always dealt with it in the best way, but damn, I'm happy she seems to at least be trying.

I don't think it's a left vs. right thing. I am liberal/leftwing as all hell but I can still see how, even if I don't personally love it, there are responsible ways to be a gun owner and as long as it's legally done, it's people's right to do it. I think we can all put aside whatever our personal views are either way to see that, regardless of our larger feelings about gun control or gun rights or anything in between, David's way of teaching about weapons is patently inappropriate, dangerous and possibly abusive. David is one violent, screwy, evil character. He's not teaching anything like gun safety, hunting skills for survival reasons, etc. He's teaching fear and domination. That's all he knows. Also, I'm really sorry about your experience. That's terrible and would be so traumatizing.