ReadMeLattice

Totally agree. At this point if Taylor isn't wrapping it up and doesn't want more kids, he's just plain stupid. Of course, he's a nice guy but he's never seemed overly responsible to me. He seems to be about in the same boat as Maci. He drinks a lot (two peas in a pod) and always just comes across as a super lazy hipster type to me. He turned me off a lot when he openly admitted he was waiting to propose until MTV would pay for the ring or wedding. Really they just seem like a slightly more well adjusted Cate and Tyler to me, with maybe more booze and less food. I know they think of themselves as very much not like that, but the fact is they've had more unplanned pregnancies than anybody on the show except Jenelle. And those are just the ones we know about.

To be fair, don't something like a full quarter or third of pregnancies result in miscarriage? So IDK if alcohol "caused" it, usually they're just caused by nothing, right? Although of course it could be possible. I mean, I feel bad for her but...as with most things with Maci...her way of going about discussing it was super inappropriate.

Yes! And we have quite an age difference, so I don't even want to know what it'll be like later in life when I try to lose weight. All he has to do is not have as many onion rings and he drops 20.

Looks like a filter/Photoshop to me. Yes! My husband and I started exercising at the same time and he was down 2 sizes in a month...! I think there are hormonal differences that must make this the case. I'm not disagreeing with you, but wondering what folks think: Do we think this is mutual? I could see Catelynn as healthier (maybe not necessarily physically, but emotionally/in terms of her attitude?) if Tyler didn't influence her. It seems like Tyler is better at keeping up with physical self-discipline like eating right and working out, but Cate always seemed to be kinder and to have less of an attitude before Tyler got really deeply in her head. And agreed, they really have nothing in common except their shared trauma.

He did just go through a breakup...

I agree. LOL but I think to be fair, that was also more publicized because he had like a Duggar family's worth of children with 87 different moms.

I remember this too.

I thought she had a boyfriend and lived with him but hid him, and has recently been back with Jeremy off and on? Not to be all doom and gloom, though. She certainly seems better than before! Or at least trying.

Yeah, like...I don't doubt that she probably needs that much inpatient to sort out all the stuff she likely has going on...but the coming home and going back is weird. Here's to hoping they knock some damn sense into her and she dumps Tyler.

Yeah, it'll be decades for sure for me & my husband. And I had scholarships whenever I could (my undergrad gave only need scholarships, not merit, but for grad school), so I'm guessing it's even worse for other people. Anyway, Maci probably has a bit of debt from all that journalism AA coursework she never finished.

I could see that, and then her lying about it. Or maybe she has some future "plans" (like for a porn career) that she isn't telling? Alternatively, I could *definitely* see Javi as the type to say things like "you shouldn't change your body if that's the way *I* want it" or "why do you want plastic surgery? do you want other guys looking at you? DO YOU DO YOU DO YOU?!?!?!" Or both. Probably both.

As a 20 something: we're poor out here y'all. We need to graduate early to save a little $$ on monstrous loans, not study abroad or take gap years. Sad state of things! I don't think I knew anybody who didn't work through college and still graduate with five figures or more of debt.

Omg. He wanted to move in with her this SUMMER?! The plastic surgery debate is another example of Javi's controlling ways. Briana is an idiot and total trash. But that's not the reason they broke up...it's that she wouldn't change all of her future plans (stupid or not) for him within weeks/months of dating. News flash, Javi: if you want an uber submissive woman willing to mold her life to yours immediately, find some local religious girl with no kids or just one, or a young military widow. Not Kail and Briana! They both pride themselves on "not needing a man." But I suspect that's part of the draw for him. He's turned on by it on some level. He dated a few nice, normal girls and it didn't work for him. He wants to feel like he can conquer someone who's mouthy or a challenge. No different from Jenelle with her bad boy fetish. His love life isn't going to end well unless he gets it together. He has about one last chance, or one last reality show stint, before any girl who would actually be compatible with him in terms of desired power dynamics wouldn't even be interested.

Right, and I think the overall mindset she and Mama Dawn seem to have ("you ain't nothin' without no man") is highly damaging.

So the producers are deciding who to scorn and who to praise? Then why the pattern there? It's very weird. I'd think Chelsea would get better treatment than the rest of them in that case.

I fear that she will stop and start with this just like she does with most things. Still, *maybe* her willingness to be away from Tyler even for a few weeks is a good sign? I really doubt that 5 years ago she'd have spent even 2 weeks out of his sight willingly.

I will never ever understand why the Twitter/Instagram followers like who they like. The pattern is almost exactly the opposite of who gets the most frustration vs. sympathy here. Except for Mackenzie. LOL.

I'm sorry to destroy everyone's career plans for Cate but I think she could be a stripper or escort even less than I think she could be a preschool teacher or waitress. Someone would have to want her so bad that they'd pay.

"Deadbeat Reprobate" should be her thread title...

I agree with this, except that I guess I think Leah's behavior is a lot more serious than giving them Chef Boyardee, so maybe it's not Farrah we see differently but Leah. I personally think the attitudes she's giving them towards life/themselves are pretty seriously awful. That said, def agree on Debra. I've said it before and I'll say it again, she is SCARY. And so much yes on the difference between Farrah and Catelynn/Tyler...Debra & Michael had money and a nice home and weren't incarcerated, so they *look* better, but I bet growing up with them was hell. I see Michael as very much one of those people who could be perfectly fine if matched with the right person but also very toxic if he's influenced by a toxic partner. Malleable.

Yeah, I saw a lot of complaints about a couple of times when Farrah left Sophia "alone" for a few seconds or minutes in another room (I remember once when she was moving and left the car seat outside the door for a minute while she did something in the house), but they seem to forget that an entire MTV camera crew is with them at all times that you would know extremely well and usually have worked with for years. I mean...the fact that Sophia was even left in the sink and being filmed (I'm not saying that was *smart,* btw) means that people were watching her...they have to be watching to film her, lol! I'm not a Farrah superfan but most of the critiques of her as an abusive/neglectful parent, especially on par with a Jenelle or Amber type, or even a Leah, seem...not very well founded. I'd much rather spend a day with Leah than with Farrah as I think the latter would be fucking insufferable and she captions everything with #Make America Great Again, but I also can't imagine Leah taking her daughters to Hong Kong, sitting down with them and eating a full, healthy meal from another culture. There's good and bad to everyone, but unless we see more evidence, I don't think Farrah is some junkie or truly neglectful.

Yeah, I haven't been able to figure out Drew's pattern of who he likes and doesn't like. I used to think maybe he was sexist because he treated Farrah and Chelsea like shit while praising Adam, but then with pairs like Amber and Gary and Catelynn and Tyler he does the exact opposite and gives the women a free pass. Maybe it's just the people who kiss his ass the most?

Look, I've had major depression for years and been suicidal in the past, and I am totally against any kind of stigmatization of mental health issues. I don't think it affects my parenting at all except that I have always made sure I had childcare available because I know that I need to avoid sleep deprivation and exhaustion (not that others don't, but that's especially important if you have mental health issues) or my PTSD/depression/anxiety will kick in. I'm the last person on earth to further stigmatize people with those issues or judge them, or to not believe people who say they are struggling. I know many parents (in both support groups I've been in and ones I've led, and my career) who have mental health problems from mild to very serious and they are great parents. I think it's great when people are open about their struggles, from psychosis to depression to panic attacks to insomnia to suicidal ideation. Almost everything can be managed. So after that disclaimer so it doesn't seem like I'm just being a dick, I'll say this. I don't believe Amber actually has those issues. I think she has *some* kind of problem, maybe, but it's not nearly as serious and intractable as she makes it out to be. I think she works herself up into some drama and hysterical fits and rage, and maybe does some drugs or gets drunk when she has a breakup, and calls it "being suicidal." I think she feels frustrated or emotional and doesn't want to get out of bed and calls it "severe depression." I think she's certainly codependent and all that and relies on men for her worth and their constant attention/being waited on, and values them above her daughter and herself, and calls it "BPD" or "bipolar disorder." I sincerely doubt she is actually a mental health advocate because I also sincerely doubt she has any of those real issues, and she's really stigmatizing those of us who are, um...not like her. She's heard some diagnoses from a therapist or two, or maybe even just looked some stuff up online, and they serve as convenient excuses anytime she acts like a deadbeat. Upset over your breakup with Matt? It was the suicidal ideation! Drinking again? It's the bipolar disorder! Don't feel like being a parent? It's her major depressive disorder! Psychology has become a religion in some aspects of our culture. It's the same way some "Christians" use Satan: "The devil did it." But most of all? I think she is lazy. Like deadly, deadly lazy. And selfish. And she's never been held accountable, and she always has some older boyfriend waiting on her, so she never has to develop a single coping skill for whatever depression or anxiety symptoms she DOES have...which again, I don't think are serious genetic problems or severe and debilitating like she pretends they are. I think they're debilitating because she can't deal with ANYTHING. But sometimes people aren't mentally ill, or suicidal, or depressed. Sometimes they just suck. Amber sucks.

Gary has grown up so much. I agree with whoever said he's really, really changed since the first season. I do wish he would lose some weight. 50 pounds off of him would make an enormous difference in terms of his health and lifespan...and he can't afford to leave all those kids to Kristina alone, because Amber won't be helping. I find it surprising that Kristina isn't obese. Often couples' eating habits mirror each other. Gary doesn't seem sedentary, so I assume the problem is nutrition.

100% agree there.