ReadMeLattice

From what I've heard, yes. I do wonder about the restraining order Amber mentions? Any way to find out if that's true?

She is seriously the worst, but I'm excited for any potential rage towards Amber.

Thanks. And for the record-- he's very proud of getting through a law degree and a PhD and getting a full time teaching job, all while paralyzed and without any kind of social security, disability (technically if you can work you are "not disabled" by most legal definitions), etc., and while paying for aides and a very pricey wheelchair van he can drive himself. He doesn't mind. He's always taken care of himself. BUT--when I see this kind of whining from people like Jenelle who clearly just want to screw over the system and think they are somehow entitled because they screwed the latest convicted domestic abuser...it boils my blood. Get a job like Barb has done all her life while ACTUALLY struggling. And Amber: many people deal with depression or much worse and don't have the luxury of abandoning their children whenever they feel like it. I wonder if the show influenced their level of entitlement or if they would have been like this regardless?

Oh my God. I'm so excited for the rebrand...

I know right?! My excitement about this is not appropriate.

Lady, get the fuck over yourself. My husband is paralyzed but we make "too much" (hint: it's not that much) for any sort of disability assistance for medical care, etc. We don't get a cent from the government and never have. We pay for a morning aide for him out of pocket--a full yearly salary-- so he can get to work every day, with zero help at all. And we have a baby and both work full time. These people make me sick! You can't get section 8?! Why the hell would Jenelle need section 8?!?!!! Why shouldn't she pay rent in full because she and the latest felon did it without a condom?!?! I can already tell this thread isn't going to go well for me. I've already ranted twice. The TM girls (and Tyler) are starting to send me off the rails. Send help!

Yeah, there are people who just own what they like and what they're into. As with everything with Maci, that's what I don't get. She could just be like "you know, I like to have some beers, hang out with the husband and kids, chill in some Tennessee bars, have some wings, go mudding and that's about it" and I'd be like "ok, you do you." But she clearly thinks she's "better" than people who do that. She fancies herself a weird combo of "debutante Southern Christian wife/mom" and a "badass working parent survivor who fought to get an education." That's what I find irritating about her. Just own it! Just be like "yep, I smoke and drink and party and had three kids with two boyfriends, one at 16... deal with it, that's life." But she won't. Reminds me a lot of Kail in that way.

Smoking and weight gain combo?

Yes, forgot to exempt Farrah from this too. She is absolutely a hard worker. Honestly probably the hardest worker of them all. Kail and Chelsea have some level of education, but I would not describe either as a hard worker.

I wonder what would happen if any of these people actually applied for a job? Nowadays it really seems like you need more experience and education than ever before even for working-class and lower middle-class level jobs. I was struck back when I was looking for work just out of undergrad by what a large number of jobs in many fields now want you to have a master's degree to make even $15-20 an hour. In certain fields, like food service, to get a decent job in a mid-sized or large city you'd have to have quite a bit of experience under your belt to make more than minimum wage (and even those ads often state that they prefer college grads). They have NOTHING. Nada. Except for Kail and Chelsea, not a bachelor's degree or legit vocational training in the bunch. Not even much experience working at a Target, in fast food or retail, host(ess)ing, construction/manual labor, administrative assistant or temping work, technology...no trades, nothing. Just shitty books and shitty clothing lines and Instagram "cleansing" tea. I would not want to be any of them if the MTV money dried up, or if I ever wanted to do something with my life. Some of them are pushing 30 and have had like one part-time job in high school. Scary stuff.

Jesus. Why do we watch this again?!?! These folks are the worst.

If someone I was partnered with was basically like "so I'll just screw you when I feel like it and you do all the charting, wondering, worrying, deciding and timing...sound good?" there is no way we would even be banging again, much less raising a kid. But Cate has always done whatever Tyler wanted.

I really don't think so. That's a paying honest job that requires actual work. These people have the same attitude towards work that Jenelle and Maci do-- doing nothing/not-running a shitty clothing or makeup line is "better" than a job at a deli.

Ohhhh. I missed that conversation. Or just don't remember it. I agree, I feel strongly that it shouldn't just be the woman's "job" to prevent pregnancy. Want 50% rights, take 50% responsibility. The way this was worded made me think they hadn't decided to have another child and she was purposely tricking him, so that's very different. I didn't catch the "he wanted to be surprised" thing. (Ugh. He's an adult. A baby isn't a surprise party or a video game console that Cate gifts you...it's a human? You really want to be surprised with a human?) That makes a lot more sense in terms of Tyler's overall entitlement complex and desire to be praised for doing precisely nothing except ejaculating. I will never understand these people.

Wait, what in the fuck? Um...not ok? Have you guys heard of "stealthing"-- when a person (usually a man, but I guess it could be anyone) removes a condom secretly during sex? It's being discussed now as one form of rape/sexual assault, and I think there have been some moves towards criminalizing it. I don't think this is EXACTLY the same for a couple of reasons, mostly that "stealthing" is generally understood to be done by a one night stand or fling whose sexual history/testing results you don't know, so could also lead to STDs, not just pregnancy...but really, in most ways, morally, it's exactly equivalent. If she truly did this and then slept with him, that is seriously disturbing and unethical and not something MTV should be laughing about. Yikes.

I think Amber also plays up the Tragic Femme Fatale thing and acts vulnerable on camera. As we've said before here, she thinks she's Marilyn Monroe. He says he was drawn to her the first day when she told her full life story or whatever. I think she draws in guys like Matt or Andrew who want to imagine they're rescuing a younger damsel in distress and that they have something to offer a woman, especially in her 20s. Being with someone who presents herself as tragic and misunderstood is an easy way to do that. It might be hard for US to see that, but I think she could snow an older guy if she wanted, especially one with his own baggage and demons. I AM pretty bitter about the fact that I sometimes went weeks or months without a date in undergrad and, while I am admittedly really into Madame Alexander dolls and will never have a thigh gap, I'm not all that awful. Meanwhile, deadbeat mom/felon/Matt-ex Amber goes to Marriage Boot Camp and snags a date the first day... Anyway, I'm calling it now: I don't think Amber and Matt are actually done for good. What do y'all think?

Yeah, I really don't get it either. All I can think is that he is into her on some level even if it's not equal. I've never heard her bring up kids without him responding that he doesn't know if he wants more, though. The whole thing is so confusing and strange. They have about as much chemistry as two pats of butter lying next to each other.

I honestly have to say I was a little surprised. I thought Ryan would be too lazy to even swipe left or right.

Whoa!! They are twins.

I'm so relieved that Adam's visits are supervised.

Seriously I've put on so much weight with all the holiday stuff...I'm trying to lose it now but we still have leftover snacks.

LOL this reminds me of how Kailyn accused Javi of just trying to recreate their love or whatever by going jetskiing with a new girlfriend. Because you can only jetski once. With your soulmate.

They actually don't seem to be too close to anybody to me, except Cate has a few people she parties with. Still, everyone deals with trauma differently, and they always had each other, which I think is the only thing that stopped them from becoming hardcore addicts or being incarcerated themselves. I think that's why their relationship with one another is so codependent now. Interesting to compare, as @Rebecca says. Those two weren't really isolated or manipulated, they were abused in totally different ways. Farrah's home seemed more like suburban behind-closed-doors deep psychological issues. The kind of bad marital fights where you then have to go to church and pretend they never happened. Tyler and Cate grew up with people who didn't care who saw their toxicity. They were considered 'trashy' anyway, so they had nothing to hide.

Yeah, maybe that plays into how I see her, lol.

This. As cray as Farrah acts and as much as I'd never want to be around her...that Family Therapy show really revealed Deb to be one scary, almost pathological liar. Farrah actually did (shockingly) admit that she had done some things wrong or could be better. Deb couldn't even for one second, even for TV. Her whole identity is based around being a perfect victim/martyr. People like that terrify me. Farrah is a huge bitch but she doesn't fundamentally scare me. Deb reminds me of Amber in that if Farrah was molested (which, honestly, sometimes I think she was based on things that have been said by her and their family?) I feel like she'd hide it and lie about it until the day she died if it served her for some narcissistic reason (very much like a Mommy Dearest). While Farrah is inarguably a huge bitch...I honestly can't see her doing that. Like, say (god forbid) a boyfriend of hers started mistreating Sophia. I feel like he'd be gone that day. I could be totally wrong. Just my feeling. OK enough defending Farrah, I have to go shower and forget this happened.