ReadMeLattice

You're so right! I get that Maci was participating willingly, but dropping the ball with your HIGH SCHOOL girlfriend at age 20 and then acting like she's the bitch because she's not mature in the way she deals with basically your abandonment? Pretty creepy and disgusting. I also know there is no way in hell my parents would have let me run around with a 20 year old when I was 16. Ryan's parents and Maci's should have done more to prevent it. I know that they might have not been able to, but I didn't get the sense that they thought anything about it was inappropriate.

Yeah, I don't know if he's her official manager, but he's helped her with contracts before and made some of the $ off of it. Both of her parents have also started businesses with her. I get the sense they do make some money besides TM $ for working for/with her.

You have just given me my first laugh of the day with that second paragraph!!!

Thanks for the crossover reference!! <3

I agree. It's not even fun or funny to watch really. With somebody like Butch or Amber, they're awful but so over the top that it's kind of entertaining. This is just a seething undercurrent of hatred and animosity.

Can someone explain to me why Tyler's ass gets kissed so much? I get that Cate sucks, but why is he lauded by leghumpers as soooo much better? He's just a not as overweight, in some ways douchier Cate.

I have no doubt that some surgery looks good (so we probably just don't even notice it) but all the TM girls get such truly awful surgery! I don't know how they manage to do it. He's really starting to get his drunken, red faced Larry on.

In all honesty, I don't think the Cate comments were sexist. I think @StatisticalOutlier was making a general point about how "put together" for women is generally believed to include makeup and hair styling, which is odd because men aren't expected to. I've always found that quite annoying as well. I didn't take it to mean anything about the board. I wonder if Tyler is really that much cleaner than Cate. He certainly looks it. I wonder if he really is or if she's just one of those people who tends towards greasiness.

This is an excellent point.

Larry is starting to come across as a total dick.

Why would you do this to my mind's eye? Why?

My parents live in northern Michigan and honestly, she dresses like most of the folks I see when I visit. They live in a mixed income area and there are folks who dress exactly as she does from lowest income to upper middle class. Obviously I'm not saying everyone dresses like that, but it's not uncommon. The hygiene is a different issue, but I've stayed unshowered during depressive episodes for sure, so I can't really talk.

This. I don't know if I'd go to court if I was Maci. You never know what you're going to get in family court. It's so subjective. She *could* get mandated drug tests, but she could also get a judge who just went through a bitter divorce and is all about fathers' rights, and rules that Bentley see his father MORE often. Right now she has all the power, which, yes, she enjoys having because she is a control freak, but in this case she needs it, with an addict baby daddy, his scheming wife, and enabling grandparents. I'd be scared that I would lose that control in court. On the topic of Farrah, I think Deb is a very abusive person. Farrah is no angel, but I think she and Michael both suffered extreme psychological abuse at Debra's hands. And Farrah was a child during it. She's not good at expressing herself, and Deb was her model for how to communicate, so she can't get across how manipulative she was. The first time I noticed this was at Sophia's first birthday party. Farrah had written her a card and was reading it aloud to Sophia/the table, and Debra openly interrupted her repeatedly to draw attention to herself, and disrupt the moment with her mom, and never let her finish reading. Farrah asked her to wait until she was done reading and she pretended she didn't hear multiple times and just kept talking, drawing all the focus to herself, until Farrah just gave up on reading the card and looked sad. It was a small thing, but it was silencing and gaslighting for no apparent reason. They weren't in a fight, they weren't at each other's throats. She just narcissistically silenced her daughter for no other reason than *that is what she does.* If you showed her that scene, I doubt she'd know that she did anything wrong. On the family therapy show, Dr. Jen just straight up told Farrah to give up because her mom was never going to admit she had a single flaw. She was asked repeatedly how she contributed to the situation, and she would only ever say things like "I'm too kind and giving" and "I just love Farrah too much and sacrifice too much for her." Honestly, she is an emotionally scary person. Very hollow and cruel.

Yes. If I were Maci, I wouldn't trust Jen not to leave Bentley alone with Ryan, enabler and spoiler that she is.

100% agree that Dr. Creeps is actually attracted to Farrah, not Deb, and that Maci and Ryan still bang occasionally, or did until the heroin thing. I'd treat that asshole husband of Debz OG like crap too.

I'm just shocked that these people (Amber and Matt) can even convince people to impregnate and marry them.

Putting aside the driving issue, I'm not sure how Catelynn's rehab (which I thought wasn't related to substances?) is equivalent to Ryan's heroin use. I agree that a mental health issue, addiction or otherwise, shouldn't be a reason to keep a child from a parent, and rehab alone isn't a reason to keep them apart. I do think that using heroin is fundamentally different from using marijuana, which will likely soon be as legal as alcohol throughout the states and is already in plenty of places (for a reason). I understand that not everyone shares that opinion, no need to debate, I just don't think they are equivalent on a one to one basis. While of course in a completely ideal world nobody would use substances ever, including alcohol, I think *what* drug it is certainly matters in terms of danger to the child. I don't think a current heroin user should be around a child *without supervision.* Now, whether he was actually sober or not is another question, and I agree that it's not up to Queen Maci to decide or determine that. I understand her wariness but this all needs to be decided by a judge. She enjoys her power way too much for me to be entirely on her side here. Ryan is worthless and a jerk outside of the drug use, and I get that, but that really can't have anything to do with the decision. Again, this should be decided in court along with drug tests and a clear visitation schedule. Maci not going for that makes me judge her.

Right? Reminds me of a season or two ago when she said something like "should I lose weight, or do we want a big family?" Look, I've been chubby and all that and I don't judge people for being big--it's hard to be depressed, it's hard to get the motivation to work out and eat right, most of the U.S. is overweight or obese--but I lost 40 pounds before I decided to have a baby. It's not an either/or thing...getting pregnant means you should be HEALTHIER, not less healthy... & of course because I hate him I have to add that Tyler isn't exactly healthy either. He might have a better metabolism, plus he's taller and he hasn't been pregnant twice, so it hasn't caught up with him as much, but he never seems to be eating anything healthy either.

Damn, that description. "Everyone does super fucked up stuff except for Farrah, whose life appears confusingly semi-normal in comparison."

It's a clickbait algorithm. Likely put together by a bot, not a person.

I don't know if Catelynn has depression or not "for real" as I'm not her clinician. I will say that if she is, she's being very much enabled by everyone around her in her extremely unhealthy management of it. Tyler clearly gets something out of her mental illness, whether real or not, because it allows him to play savior. She is so dependent on him that's it's sick. As long as he encourages it, it won't change.

Dr. Miami looks like a wanted poster or a used car salesman.

It's in all the stores, or at least it was a month ago when I went shopping. What a horrendous trend to bring back. Porn stars are generally attractive, though. Howard would not approve.

Cease and desist?! Oh brother. Are we sure a lawyer actually sent it? If it reads like a drunken caveman wrote it, it might actually just have been David.

Yeah, there is some toxic masculinity in the LGBTQ community just like in the general population. I assume Kailyn would find that attractive, lol, since that seems to be her thing--Jo is the only person she's dated who doesn't seem to have major issues. I don't really see it in this girl but I get how someone could. I'm more concerned about anybody Kail gets involved with. I get the sense she goes after all of them *hard* (I can see her being really aggressive with other queer women in particular, since she probably feels like she's doing them a "favor" just like she feels with nonwhite men) and doesn't take no for an answer, then ruins their lives if they don't do what she wants after they finally give in to dating her. I also assume she fakes being 'awesome' at first and then they're shocked when she turns.