ReadMeLattice

That's a good point. Would they choose Carly if the option was no social media, no reality TV and no clothing line? Just normal jobs in their area of Michigan? Honestly...Catelynn *might,* but I strongly doubt it. Tyler would not.

I understand feeling empathy for the loss. I guess what I don't get is how much loss they can truly be feeling if all they have to do is follow a few simple rules to see her more and they won't. It's not like B&T are asking them to demean themselves. They are just asking for basic decency and to keep Carly off social media. If they are truly heartbroken I guess I just don't get why they don't do those things...

Yes, that is a big part of it too. Carly is a human being. She is not a "gift." The demands that B&T be grateful make it seem that they, & especially Tyler (ok I seriously really hate him, sorry, I think my bias is showing) care more about their own egos than about Carly.

I can't think of any two things I want to see less than 1) Maci, Patron Saint of Pregnancy Test Surprised Faces and her hipster boo's clothing line and 2) Amber doing anything. I do feel bad that Butch is continuing to use. I have family members who are addicts, but not to illegal drugs. It must be devastating.

I understand what you're saying. I think part of the issue for me is that she gave Carly up willingly and now continues to flout the boundaries set by her adoptive parents. The thing is, she COULD see Carly more if she wanted. She would have to follow the rules. She won't. She chose Tyler and fame over Carly, so I have a lot less sympathy than I otherwise might. That said...I honestly blame Tyler even more for the situation, maybe far more. Cate was in a more abusive situation than he was and was completely taken by him. And most of all I blame their parents. Butch for being absentee, violent, incarcerated, abusive. April for being an addict, neglectful, abusive. Cate's dad who I assume was absentee. Tyler's mom who provided no guidance. The way they treated them during the process was shameful and their abuse and neglect undoubtedly led to much of what transpired. And Tyler? I honestly don't think he's very sad about Carly at all. I think Tyler loves Tyler. Period.

A Jennitelle sore?

You guys I am so obsessed.

Not surprised he's a white supremacist.

Yep! And she hooked up with Tori more than once and had all sorts of threesomes too, but Nathan was a homophobe so suddenly she thought gay and bi people were gross. Not that hooking up means you're necessarily not straight (or gay)...but she just goes with whatever her partner is. Hypocritical. Kieffer era= vaguely hippie street kid stoner Gary= military loving, wanted Jace back, partying at the bars (he was kind of a good ol boy) Courtland= hardcore druggie Nathan= gym rat UBT= submissive redneck housewife

I don't know if obvi is Twitter speak (can't stand Twitter) but it's def millennial speak. (As I say def, lol) I don't mind the silly slang words of today any more than my parents' silly slang words. Every generation finds new words to butcher, lol. I think Pete is probably perfectly fine. I've always thought the pig thing was weird (I would never want a pig...?) but I think Chelsea is probably a good pig mom. We aren't as obsessed with our dog now that we have a baby. It's not like we neglect him. It's just how things go. *Shrug*

Ugh, I agree with Tyler about something. *Uses brain bleach to pretend it never happened*

That's true. She comes across as having some major social issues, but Cole also didn't stop speaking in baby talk on screen until like the last two episodes he was on (lol), so I've got to hope it's partly the cameras.

Ok so I got confused and thought Amber posted this and you were reposting it. I kept thinking, wait, even the Hypocrisy and Cognitive Dissonance Queen can't be dumb enough to post this!!!!! That took me way too long to figure out...

I also think Briana comes across as especially gross because she's clearly a try hard. If she was just posting about her own sexual preferences it would be way TMI and gross, but something about her feels sleazier than that. It always seems like she's a 15 year old girl trying to come across as "grown" and "sExY" to potential baby daddies, or trying to make her exes jealous. It never even seems like she's just slutty and that's her thing or whatever. It seems way worse than that, like she's always faking or the most desperate, insecure girl in the 9th grade. Which is understandable in 9th grade but not in your mid 20s with two children.

LOL I will say that if I hadn't had as many sexual partners as I did before I got married, I wouldn't be so fiercely loyal now. I sowed my oats, figured out what I wanted and I never have any "what ifs." No shame here. Everybody's different though. I have found that being too extreme on either side--extremely jealous and prudish or extremely prone to unprotected sex--is a good indicator of potential cheating and future issues with sex, as are issues with substances, impulse control and using protection (don't use protection? don't even try to touch me). I see a lot of red flags with people like Javi and Briana in terms of serial monogamy, not necessarily promiscuity. Bri, for example, is promiscuous without protecting herself or her partner physically or emotionally, then wants them to be monogamous forever with her. Then what that doesn't work out, she moves on to the next one. It's a weird hybrid of pretending to be sex-positive without actually doing it, sleeping around without protection, but also being possessive and demanding of loyalty and commitment in a way that doesn't fit with what she's actually doing.

Re: whether he wants "traditional" or "non-traditional," I am really confused myself. He certainly made it seem in the past that he wanted a bunch of kids and an at least somewhat traditional gendered dynamic/division of labor. Yet now he wants to be with Briana and when he dates girls who aren't famous and don't want to be, he "doesn't understand where they're coming from?" Good luck finding an MTV star or wannabe reality show hanger-on who wants to do nothing but raise children and submit to Big Papi Javi, dude. That makes absolutely no sense. He would have been better off dating just about any normal local girl, but he'll never do that now, and instead will try to demand loyalty from girls who are as famewhorish as he is. It's nonsense and it's not going to work out. He strikes me as one of those faux-macho, proving-his-manhood types who wants to have his cake and eat it too: save a ho, make her a housewife...then have a reality show about it. What? Yes, I love how Kail says that she's bi but girls are too much drama. Um...have you met your ex-husband or most recent baby daddy? Or for that matter, YOURSELF?

DING DING DINGGGGG He disgusts me more and more. I used to have a lot more sympathy for him. I used to think he was putting on arrogant airs a little bit to avoid getting hurt, but now I don't think he was "snowed" by Kailyn as much as he was by his own ego, which told him to put up with anything as long as it got him attention, fans, airtime and money. Her ego is massive, too, so they deserved each other. Same with Bri. No normal girl would be "good enough" in Javi's eyes now. Funny how Jo came across a certain way when he was 16 but ended up being a totally decent guy. Javi seemed too good to be true...and he was. Pardon my language, but what a fucking bitch.

Yes! Depression is real and pervasive and it can affect your parenting, sure. But the difference is that you still have to DO it, even if you're not at your best. Or hire help if you have to--if she was truly that depressed and exhausted and suffering from real mental health issues, she has the money to hire good, vetted, background checked (LOL SHE DOESN'T EVEN BACKGROUND CHECK HER FIANCES) help to do things like cooking and cleaning while she hangs out with Leah. Leah doesn't need big trips, money, or expensive gifts from Amber, and she doesn't even need a cheery, not-depressed mother. She does need her mother's time and attention. That's something you can't just decide not to give. It's a non-negotiable. Amber has the money and leisure to have someone else do all the heavy lifting for her while she hangs out at the house with Leah while she plays or does homework just to let her know she cares. Even if she said something like "Leah, Mommy is feeling sad today, but it has nothing to do with you. I still care about you and want to spend time with you," I'm sure Leah would understand and would still value her time with her mother. The fact that she makes no moves to do this tells me she does not truly have depression, she just doesn't want to be a parent. Alternatively, if she was TRULY suffering from a deep mental health issue and couldn't be around her child for a time for their mutual best interest, she could go to treatment and work on herself, or take the time to rest and work things out to manage things for her daughter. She could take the time to be alone and reflect until she matured enough to be a positive influence. Instead, she demands more and more time with Leah, then doesn't take it, and instead prances around getting pregnant by the latest criminal BF/potential abuser. This tells me that she does not really have a severe mental health issue, she's just cold-hearted and selfish.

Yes, come now, let's not set our standards too high. Amber is sooooo tirreeed and stressseddd.

I totally agree (re: Farrah pinning Deb and Sophia against each other), although I think Deb plays the power games too and tries to get Sophia on her "side" (aka against Farrah). Those two have an extremely weird relationship. Codependent? Sophia isn't as bad off or mistreated as some (most?) of the other kids on this series, but she is going to grow up so emotionally confused. I also really want to know about all the money stuff going on behind the scenes. I wonder how much Deb and Michael have made off of Farrah, especially Deb; how much of creepy David the Doctor's lifestyle Debra bankrolls...you just know half of this is money-motivated. I used to wonder why they even spoke to each other, but I think at least some of it has to do with money. Same thing with Farrah and Simon. Who is supporting who, etc. I get shady gold-digging vibes from every last one of them, even Michael to an extent, but particularly Farrah, Deb & David.

Oh my God, I've never hoped so much that someone was right.

I will say that on my pettiest days I'm a little jealous of this, lololol. I dropped all my pregnancy weight quickly but as soon as I started drinking wine again--and not nearly as much as Maci seems to drink-- I gained at least half of it back! That stuff is calorie-heavy!

Thanks for sharing your experience. One of my closest friends growing up was adopted. She was Indian and her parents were white, so she was clearly not their bio child. When we were preteens she suddenly started saying she wanted to meet her bio parents in India. After a while it came out that some relative had referenced her bio parents and called them her "parents" and it had confused her. Her curiosity faded over time and she stopped caring about them much at all. I bet things like that happen a lot. I'm definitely not at all saying that there aren't many adopted kids who DO want to meet their bio parents...I just wonder how often it is planted in their heads by society and not an organic wish. I truly think that at this point, Carly just shouldn't have any contact with C&T. Their disrespect is extremely flagrant and they, I assume, will try to cross even more boundaries as she gets older. They are patently inappropriate.

Yeah, I agree. I'm pretty sure he's not the person to "put her in her place," anyway. Who the hell is he? He's her mom's creepy, boundary-crossing husband who has been disrespectful (as you say) from day one. I don't care HOW I acted or how much I needed reprimanding (which Farrah definitely does in many cases, don't get me wrong), if some random dude waltzed in, dated my mom, and subsequently vacillated between berating me and ignoring me as my mom's daughter while also being clearly attracted to me and trying to touch me, I'd be a bitch to him too. He's not her dad, he's not even her stepdad, and he acts like a guy trying to date her/salivating over her half the time and some weird authority figure the other half.

Yes, this 100 percent. I do think Chelsea has moments of self-righteousness, but Maci THRIVES on it. It's almost her main personality trait.