ReadMeLattice

Watching the other wives answer questions about Kody and Meri's marriage is awkward partly because you know they're fully aware that those two are 100% separated, not just going through some fights or whatever. They've been "praying for them to work it out" for what, like 5 years? Are they going to pray for another 10?

Ew, didn't know that. My husband is physically disabled and had a service dog until the dog sadly passed - an ESA can have its place but it is NOT the same thing and doesn't have anywhere near the same amount of training. Sooo annoying when people try to pull this. I wouldn't be surprised if Mariah (or many of the Browns, frankly - Kody has a certain entitlement he's passed on to some of the wives and kids) pulled this though. Oh yeah, Logan was essentially a second dad to the kids. And Aspyn was 100% a surrogate mother. She held that house together completely. Aurora is 18, she can't help care for the little ones?? And I think Dayton is 20 or 21.

To be fair, Mariah and Audrey have both talked about dealing with some pretty serious depression in the past. I know Audrey made mention of that in the last episode and both have talked about their mental health struggles on social media. Depression made me (and makes a lot of people) put on a lot of weight and stop taking care of themselves or thinking about their appearance pretty frequently. This was also during quarantine and a lot of people, myself included, didn't exactly look great, lol.

I don’t “feel bad” for Kody or anything, don't get me wrong - can't stand the guy - but I think he does realize he really shouldn’t have been a polygamist. I’m sure it sounded cool and novel when he was a horny 20-something year old, but the reality of maintaining 4 families and 18 children and growing into middle age with four partners who all want his time and attention is very different. I also don’t think he truly fell in love until Robyn, so as a young man he probably didn’t realize how hard it would actually be to leave one wife he really loved to spend time with another that he basically saw as a friend. No matter how much guys might say they wouldn't mind multiple partners, most only really LOVE one (at least at a time). I personally don't believe he ever truly loved Meri, Janelle or Christine, so it probably wasn't that big a deal to him to leave one of them behind to see the other. None of that excuses any of his cowardly and cruel behavior, it's just a really odd dynamic due to polygamy. Like seeing a guy leave one wife or girlfriend for a woman he truly falls head over heels for... except he actually stays married to the first one... AND TWO OTHERS.

I know there are some issues with this and it's not simple to just jump up and run over to a different country, but if you're THAT obsessed with NEEDING polygamy (and not polyamory or swinging or any kind of other open relationship) specifically, why don't any of these folks consider moving to a country where it's more widely practiced/regulated? Even loosely more available and common? I understand you shouldn't just jump up and run to a different place every time you have a whim, but after you're seriously looking for a sister wife for over a decade, you'd think they'd at least consider that? I wonder why we don't ever even mildly hear about that (or why they decided not to do it). It's simply not really available or accepted here and it's very very unlikely to pan out unless you're already in some cult-y little group.

She really has that martyred voice/facial expression down, it's quite the art.

I agree. I also think now when we see the show it isn't as clear anymore that at least Christine and Meri were brainwashed from childhood to believe this was their lot in life and the only way to achieve spiritual perfection. ESPECIALLY Christine, who is from a prominent polygamous family. Probably Robyn too, as she married a Jessop first, for God's sake. She might have been monogamous with him but the "doctrine" ran deep. Only Janelle and Kody weren't raised in polygamous families or a polygamous religion.

Yeah, I think it's safe to say more people who might have been like "hmm, well, I guess it's your choice as adults" re: polygamy before/when this show started are now firmly against it because of their toxic dynamic. A group like the Dargers might have made some more folks end up at a place of "it's weird, but you do you," but the Browns have done exactly the opposite. Literally every adult in the family seems miserable.

Interesting to read all the thoughts about Robyn. I agree with most that she had a scheme in mind from the beginning - even if she herself wasn’t even fully conscious that she had one, if that makes sense. However, I don’t see Meri specifically as quite as much of a victim as others do. I think Robyn’s manipulations and machinations affected Meri the most precisely because she was previously “the dark queen” herself. Janelle and Maddie have both called Meri abusive to the point that Janelle didn’t even feel comfortable being in a car alone with her or sharing a kitchen. She said Meri mocked her looks and made sure to let Janelle know in every way that she wasn’t welcome. I think they all had their roles to play - Christine the besotted one, dismissed as hysterical by Kody, for example, and Janelle the most submissive one in the sense that she didn’t challenge or demand anything from Kody. The family dynamic shifted when the existing queen was ousted and we’ve been witnessing the fallout of the two biggest manipulators vying for position as Kody’s favorite, with Meri longing for the time when she was and Robyn lording it over her now. Christine and Janelle never stood a chance. I think Meri’s self-esteem has been affected by the years of loneliness and poor treatment by Kody, but I also think she knows she could choose to leave if she wanted. I think the lifestyle afforded to her by the show and the media attention she gets from it is very important to her, as it is to Robyn. They’re similar in that way and many others. Of course, it’s hard to fault any of them at all when they have someone as indisputably toxic and selfish as Kody at the center. They are all, including Meri and Robyn, the ongoing victims of Kody’s manipulation. And while he’s a bumbling fool, he is one skilled manipulator and gaslighter. He casts them in roles and pits them against each other; none of them, even Robyn, are truly fully fleshed out people to him. He’s many times worse than any of them. That would bring out the worst in anyone.

@NoWhammies I wouldn’t be surprised if it was one of the middle ones or the younger ones like Truely. She seems like a spitfire and the poor thing is neglected almost more than any of them. For God’s sake, she almost died and it was Aspyn - not Christine or Kody - who ultimately decided she had to go to the hospital. It was also INCREDIBLY weird imo to hear Kody complaining about Mariah wanting to “save Grandma.” Hello! Janelle IS a grandma and her age and weight make her higher risk than anyone. Dismissing that risk was so hateful on his part - it’s like he didn’t even think of the actual risks to his own wives. Just the inconvenience to him.

Yep. Polygamy will always be weird to me, but at least Joe Darger seems to have a little courage. Kody is the quintessential "I want all the spotlight/attention but none of the trials or effort" guy.

*Post deleted because what I said didn't make sense 😂

Omg, how he treated Ysabel about her scoliosis absolutely didn't get enough criticism by and large imo. It is absolutely disgusting to make your kid feel like they're less than if they can't personally "cure" or "overcome" their disability/condition. Not only did she feel self-conscious among her peers at school for how her back looked, but then her dad had to guilt her at home?? Garrison is, or at least was, in the National Guard.

Right! Whether they were right or wrong or whatever, Kody calling their jobs and lives "social lives" and dismissing them, while his ridiculous CHOICE to have a billion kids with four wives scattered around in four homes in a random city is some sort of sacred act, is disgusting. Are they supposed to treat his unconventional, untenable choice to run around with four wives living miles and miles apart under various roofs as valid? Why??

Yeah, I'm still like that with my husband 7 years in. Some people are just more affectionate. I don't get people's issues with them holding hands and placing a casual hand on a knee or something, it's not like they're making out and grinding on each other. For God's sake, Maddie and Caleb made wayy more inappropriate comments about their honeymoon sex in front of the whole family, lol. Savanah really impressed me this episode. She was mature, empathetic, calm, and smart. I had mixed feelings about Gabriel's comments - sure, some of it just seemed like "willful teen who just wants to see his girlfriend of three weeks," but his comment in his interview was more telling. He made it clear that he knows his mom already doesn't get the time or attention she deserves, while Robyn gets everything. He did seem like he had an edge in his tone, but I would too if Kody was my dad and I'd seen my mom treated like that all those years. I think he was trying to defend and protect her personally. Christine also likely gets more attention as well, just because she causes more of a stir when she doesn't. And hearing Kody call Mariah "privileged" was rich. Uh...who moves his family all over the country buying increasingly lavish, absolutely ridiculous properties he can't afford? Is he positioning himself as more aware of his class privilege? lollllll yeah no. And while Gabe might have been putzing around with his friends somewhat, Garrison was at WORK. You know, a JOB. Calling that a "social life" is the epitome of a "privileged" comment on Kody's part.

Very true. I got fillers for the first time only after I lost 50-60 pounds because the sudden, quick weight loss (not entirely on purpose, some for illness reasons) made me look tired and very, VERY old and rough all of a sudden. Fillers are not meant for the average face, it's meant to plump up older folks, people with super pinched faces or a lack of collagen and elasticity for some reason, etc. They can really help in those cases, but it makes no sense that all of these girls get them as a matter of course. Kailyn getting them over and over is completely nonsensical. She already has a filled-out face! And that's not an insult whatsoever! I just don't get the addiction. Toning and exercising, maybe, or simply dressing FOR HER BODY would do her a world of good.

Yeah, I would say 18-20 at minimum. Again, nothing wrong with or shameful about that, unless you're claiming to never eat a single bite of sugar or processed food and not allowing your kids to do so either! Olivia claimed she has a stash of candy and only she is allowed to touch it. I know they hate each other, but I believe it. And the kids, even the adults, are all rail-thin, so I don't think it's genetics.

Yeah @geej, I'm usually not one to comment on people's bodies much, but given how severely she restricts her kids' diets, it's worth pointing out that I really doubt you would be THAT severely overweight while following the same diet. She's older and has had many kids, so yes, of course she's not necessarily going to look like a movie star, but barring some unknown major health issue, I don't believe she got that obese eating *zero* sugar. It's one thing to have standards and expectations for your kids -- like "don't drink in high school" -- that you might not have followed when you were a teen, because you want them to learn from your mistakes. It's another thing to CONTINUE doing the things you expect them not to do, even when they're older teens or adults.

It's true that we eat way too much sugar, but I have an issue with the hypocrisy- it's long been rumored that Kim actually eats candy sometimes and just doesn't let her kids do it. I have no idea if that's true, but - and this is not meant to body-shame, just being realistic - I wouldn't be surprised, based on her appearance vs. the kids'. Also I feel like ZERO sugar is a bit much, personally. The kids I knew with really restrictive diets at home always binged on pizza and brownies at friends' houses because they didn't know how to moderate/regulate their intake when they finally had access to it. My bet is that some of the Plath kids will develop weird habits around eating and/or drinking because all the confinement just went way too far.

The mom is a naturopath or something, I think. Oh, and re: Ethan and Olivia- I think both have alluded to the fact that some of the resentment/anger from Olivia is because Ethan basically threw his wife under the bus for almost two years of marriage. Kim criticized everything from her diet to her TOOTHPASTE CHOICE (!!) because it wasn't "natural" enough. Instead of defending her, he basically kept quiet to keep the peace. I'd be resentful of that, too. I don't think she's a perfect person, but it would be extremely hard to be a 20-year-old newlywed who's thrown into a family like that and then have to fend for myself while my husband just sits there. I assume that's the source of a bit of the snark and irritability we see coming from her at times. I'm glad he finally figured it out, though - just sad that they have the damage of those 2 years to contend with.

I get why people are saying it I guess, but don't really see that Olivia is any "bitchier" than I would be in similar circumstances. If my in-laws literally said my husband could visit their home and I couldn't without supervision because I WORE TANK TOPS and ATE SUGAR, I would hardly be able to disguise my disgust. I mean, you can't take that stuff seriously. There's respecting other people's beliefs, and then there's...whatever they believe in. Your kids can't play the guitar alone together because one of them eats sugar and watches TV? No, that's insane. IMO the parents need to be told they're insanely controlling, and often. No amount of sweetness and obedience will ever be enough for them. They didn't even let their kids have birth certificates or high school diplomas. In my opinion, you can have whatever religious faith you want, but you don't have the right to deny your child the fundamental setup of life, like an ID, access to education, and basic knowledge of health, jobs, money, and the world.

I doubt it, my hunch is she will ride out the social media "influencer" train as far as she can. What's irritating, too, is that I actually don't have any issue with people being influencers or making it on social media. But usually people create actual CONTENT and that's why people start to follow them - blogs, really good photos, videos, beauty, fitness, inspiration, whatever. Even interesting captions or something, jeez. Chelsea and Cole seem to want to put in the absolute least amount of effort possible. They seem to just want to slap a price tag or hashtag on something and have people throw money at them for existing, which I find really grating. If you're actually going to go the social media route, then do it and take pride in it. Don't just try to scam people with BS ads for dumb products and such.

I have diagnosed borderline personality disorder and PTSD and my husband is a quadriplegic...we both work full time and don't get SSDI or SSI. I'm pretty sure Chelsea can do it with her fake mini panic attacks every time she has to buy gas or wash her hair or whatever. 🤣 Sorry, she (AND Cole for sure) just don't want to work imo.

Yeah. I know we all *want* to believe that at least somebody in the situation isn’t quite as bad, but unfortunately I think Nathan isn’t just “not a perfect dad” or something. He’s dangerous as well. I don’t know if he would personally be as violent with Kaiser, but given the fact that he doesn’t have custody and isn’t even allowed unsupervised visits with his daughter either, and given his substance abuse problem, I don’t know that we can truly say anyway. He’s never really been a parent except for occasional visits with both of his children, so we don’t know what he’s like when he’s, say, drunk around a child. If he truly cared all that much about UBT being violent with Kaiser (which I’m in no way denying that disgusting POS is!) he would stop worrying about stalking and threatening some woman— who isn’t even his girlfriend, by the way! This went even beyond an argument between girlfriend and boyfriend—and drinking and driving every chance he gets. Kaiser doesn’t have anyone on his side. Anyone. If my child was in danger there is absolutely nothing I wouldn’t do to help them, and I certainly wouldn’t take the risk of never seeing them again in order to stalk somebody I hooked up with.

The Sun got a hold of the Florida court docs... apparently Nathan told this woman he would leave her “unrecognizable when he was done with her” if she kept denying him sex, and he showed up at her house repeatedly drunk and refused to leave. She had texts to prove the threats (“Watch your back,” “sleep with your eyes open”) apparently. She was granted the restraining order (although yes I know that’s not the same as an arrest.) https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the-sun.com/entertainment/1136561/teen-mom-jenelle-evans-ex-nathan-griffith-accused-stalking-threats-verbal-abuse-restraining-order/amp/ I’m inclined to believe it, as that’s what he supposedly did to Jessica twice when she tried to break it off. He’d show up drunk and refuse to leave, then a couple of times he broke in and attacked her. I think it’s pretty clear he’s an alcoholic at the very least. Nobody has all these people accuse them of the same drunken stalking and violence without actually doing some of it at least. so sad that Kaiser has two parents like this... he can’t catch a break. Most kids have at least one semi-involved parent who actually wants to protect them and isn’t an addict, violent, etc. Nobody to help him or guide him.