And The Golden Arrow Goes To...: Awards, Nominations, and Recognition

[wingster55]

As for the voting thing, I'm with wonderwall on this. Why should people not be enthusiastic about what they like? Why is it bad for "fangirls" to vote in polls and participate in twitter campaigns to get the show and characters positive buzz and attention? I think it's unfair that the fans who spend their own free time giving the show free promotion (because the CW sure doesn't give "Arrow" the time of day anymore) get ridiculed while apparently the "real fans" spend their time posting vitriol and complaining about how the show is "ruined" in every comments section of every article written about "Arrow".

 

 

It's the excess. Anything done in excess isn't a good thing imo. 

[wonderwall]

It's the excess. Anything done in excess isn't a good thing imo. 

 

And in this case, voting isn't an excess... It's just voting. If people have time in their day to vote and they want to dedicate said time voting, it's their right don't you think? IMO I think it's weird to chastise or look down upon people for showing support to something they love (unless what they love is super problematic).

 

It's not harmful, so I don't understand why it's so bad? People asking others to stop voting and talk about an aspect of the show they love less is just also asking them to promote the show less and talk about it less. I think that's just really counterproductive. 

Edited June 17, 2015 by wonderwall

[EmeraldArcher]

  Amell's wooden version of emoting nearly put me off from watching this show. He improved slightly in season two and then went back to bad in season 3. 

Ugh. I feel like people who complain about SA's "wooden" acting aren't able to discern OQ's post-island guardedness from SA's ability to portray it. Seriously! I'm not claiming that his performance on the show is Emmy-worthy (mostly because I don't pay attention to award shows), but I think SA does a fantastic job playing multiple versions of OQ, from his intonation, posture, mannerisms, and physicality. His wretched wig in the FB isn't what convinces me that he's younger and makes poor choices; it's his petulance and the fact that every part of him oozes being afraid and overwhelmed.

But what do I know? I'm just a fan girl.

[strikera0]

I would be surprised if Arrow gets nominated for stunts this year. IMO, the quality of the stunt work has taken a step back compared to previous seasons. The only stunt sequences that have stuck with me this season were the big TA/LOA fight in ep 22 and the Nyssa/Oliver/Malcolm brawl in episode 4. I don't know what the competition's like, but to me, Arrow was more deserving of a stunt nom in prior years.

Edited June 17, 2015 by strikera0

[wingster55]

And in this case, voting isn't an excess... It's just voting. If people have time in their day to vote and they want to dedicate said time voting, it's their right don't you think? IMO I think it's weird to chastise or look down upon people for showing support to something they love (unless what they love is super problematic).

 

It's not harmful, so I don't understand why it's so bad? People asking others to stop voting and talk about an aspect of the show they love less is just also asking them to promote the show less and talk about it less. I think that's just really counterproductive. 

The voting is fine. It's the rest...the constant hounding of show runners, the numerous questions a entertainment reporter gets (both from the group and from the individual members of a group), the trends (which is something I've never gotten to be honest..not when it's planned)

[wonderwall]

The voting is fine. It's the rest...the constant hounding of show runners, the numerous questions a entertainment reporter gets (both from the group and from the individual members of a group), the trends (which is something I've never gotten to be honest..not when it's planned)

 

I'm just wondering... How is sending tweets/asks to the EPs and Entertainment Reporters considered hounding when they open themselves up for people to ask them questions? They don't have to answer if they don't want to, and I don't think anyone expects them to answer, but when they do, it's sometimes nice to hear what they say.

 

And trends are something that fans do to show that they're still invested. It shows the EPs that there's still interest in something. It doesn't harm anyone and only shows how much some people love whatever they're trending. No harm, no foul. So I just don't understand the big deal?

Edited June 17, 2015 by wonderwall

[HighHopes]

The voting is fine. It's the rest...the constant hounding of show runners, the numerous questions a entertainment reporter gets (both from the group and from the individual members of a group), the trends (which is something I've never gotten to be honest..not when it's planned)

I'm struggling to understand why you are so against people talking about a part of the show they love so much. They want answers to their questions, so they make sure they are answered.

Arrow gets zero promotion, so they aren't getting their answers from interviews or anywhere else. Fans are passionate, that's part of being in a fandom.

If the "silly fangirls" didn't get these questions out there, or didn't hound reporters or do Twitter trends, Arrow would get even less publicity than it does currently.

Part of the reason Amell has done Kimmel and Seth Meyers is because of the (planned) Twitter trends. Which got him and the show exposure.

Just because it's the shippers responsible for the trend doesn't mean that they only care about the ship and they don't love the show for other reasons. Hell the shippers are some of the most passionate fans who have amazing metas and discussions about the show. The negative connotation associated with shippers seriously needs to stop.

[SmallScreenDiva]

The voting is fine. It's the rest...the constant hounding of show runners, the numerous questions a entertainment reporter gets (both from the group and from the individual members of a group), the trends (which is something I've never gotten to be honest..not when it's planned)

 

Have you ever looked at the trending list on Twitter (or other search engines, social media platforms on FB) and wondered what that hashtag is all about and clicked? I have. The trends are promotion. A reminder for those who may not have watched "Arrow" in a while. An "invite" for those who may be unfamiliar with the show. Companies try to trend slogans or product names (usually by offering giveaways) in the hopes the hashtag will catch someone's attention and click. That's what the trends are for.

 

As for the "constant hounding" of show runners, I imagine you mean about the stuff fans want to see on the show? That's feedback. And despite what Andrew Kreisberg said about the influence of Twitter folks, they do want it. David Ramsey has indicated at several panels that people behind the scenes do pay attention. Charlotte Ross attributed her character's return to the show to the massive response she got from fans.

 

As for entertainment reporters, well, they ask for it. Literally. Have you seen the tweets from Kristin Dos Santos, the EW folks, TV Line, etc. seeking questions before they do their scoop articles or interviews? Also, why shouldn't fans ask about things they're interested in? I can only see it as a good thing that more people ask about certain characters or certain details. That indicates interest. You know what the worst thing is? Apathy.

[tv echo]

New Best Ever categories!  Ra's killing Oliver nominated for Best Shocker (you can vote as often as you like, voting in all categories ends Thursday, June 25 at 5 p.m. PT)...

 

Best. Ever. TV. Awards 2015: Vote for the Best (and Worst) Shocker of the Season!
by TIERNEY BRICKER Tue., Jun. 16, 2015 12:00 PM PDT
http://www.eonline.com/news/667193/best-ever-tv-awards-2015-vote-for-the-best-and-worst-shocker-of-the-season

 

Previously posted Best Ever poll categories (still open for voting)...

 

Oliver and Felicity's premiere kiss nominated for Best Kiss
TA vs LOA nominated for Best Fight
http://www.eonline.com/news/666712/best-ever-tv-awards-2015-vote-for-the-best-kiss-of-the-year-now

 

Oliver and Felicity nominated for Best Couple
http://www.eonline.com/news/666072/best-ever-tv-awards-2015-vote-for-the-best-couple-now

 

SA and EBR nominated for Best Actor and Actress in a Drama
http://www.eonline.com/news/665203/best-ever-tv-awards-2015-officially-begin-vote-for-the-best-actor-and-actress-in-a-drama-now

 

ETA:  I agree with EmeraldArcher that SA's acting (esp. from S1) is underrated.  GG gets praise for his acting (TVLine named him one of their dream Emmy nominees, retweeted by AK), yet he basically played the same character from start to finish of his S1.  SA had to play various versions of his character (pre-island Ollie, changing island Ollie, post-island Oliver pretending to be pre-island Ollie, the real post-island Oliver, changing post-island Oliver due to Diggle/Felicity), and I thought he pulled it off.  It was believable enough that I became invested in his character and his hero journey.

Edited June 17, 2015 by tv echo

[wingster55]

Constant Hounding: Reporter asks: Submit your Qs. One person then asks numerous questions which are all the same thing essentially. 

That's what I mean. And it's a whole group like that. Say they all ask about Felicity/Olicity. That's what gets noticed. However, those who ask other questions (say me, asking about Thea doesn't get noticed. And yes I ask more than once trying to be seen) 

 

It's like SDCC panels when even on a panel without EBR there was 0 talk of Oliver and Thea. It was mostly the ships (Olicity but also Thea/Roy)...that kinda bugged me. 

 

The trends...it's that they're organized. I think showrunners (based on what some have said) look more at what's being tweeted about more during an actual episode. 

[apinknightmare]

If people aren't hurting anyone, then I don't see anything at all wrong with being passionate and vocal about fandom. And no offense to Thea (because I love her), but the reporters who ask for questions know what drives traffic to their site - Oliver and Felicity do that. If I had to guess, Thea? Not so much. So it's probably not the sheer number of questions about O&F being thrown out there (although I can't deny that probably has something to do with it) so much as it is the picking and choosing of questions whose answers will get them hits. 

Edited June 17, 2015 by apinknightmare

[wonderwall]

Constant Hounding: Reporter asks: Submit your Qs. One person then asks numerous questions which are all the same thing essentially. 

That's what I mean. And it's a whole group like that. Say they all ask about Felicity/Olicity. That's what gets noticed. However, those who ask other questions (say me, asking about Thea doesn't get noticed. And yes I ask more than once trying to be seen) 

 

It's like SDCC panels when even on a panel without EBR there was 0 talk of Oliver and Thea. It was mostly the ships (Olicity but also Thea/Roy)...that kinda bugged me. 

 

The trends...it's that they're organized. I think showrunners (based on what some have said) look more at what's being tweeted about more during an actual episode. 

 

What's wrong with asking numerous questions? If the reporters are asking for it, then what's the problem? Obviously they don't have to answer those questions. Nor is the person who's asking expecting them to. 

 

It's not that the shippers are the problem though... There's the O/F shippers who do everything they can to promote what they love... Then there's the other side who don't do as much and are only vocal about their dislike of O/F. That's why characters like Thea/Malcolm or whatever don't get as much traction. Don't blame it on the people who promote what they love, blame it on the people who don't do anything except for complain what they don't love. 

 

You have to remember that 2014 SDCC was when Oliver told Felicity he loved her, that was a great mystery. Did he mean it, didn't he? That's what got the most clicks, that was the most popular subject that year. This year it can very well be different. 

 

If the trends aren't looked at by the showrunners, then I don't get why it's a problem? Let the people who want to trend whatever they want do as they please. Again it doesn't hurt anyone. 

Edited June 17, 2015 by wonderwall

[Balaclava]

Problem, to me, is that they take it so seriously. The voting, and when they go to a convention they may ask the same questions over and over. Like 90% of the questions Stephen may get are Felicity related..there's more to the character than that....

 

I would say you got that right, they do take it seriously, but not only about Olicity and i'll give you some examples. Half of S3 was spend tweeting the eps about Diggle, and the concern about him being sidelined or when would he be getting a suit,there was also a lot of Q's about FS and concerns about how the quality of the action scenes seems to have decrease in S3. If you scroll thru the eps mentions you'll see it, "fangirls" do care about the show and characters as individuals. Besides the eps mentions you can find it in media twitter accts whenever there's an interview with someone from the cast or the eps, and they ask for Q's.

On twitter the all who is DD spec and how he could be FS father or not was done by a "fangirl", said fangirl was also right about MM motives (becoming Ra's),O&N marriage and Oliver not being brainwashed at all among other things. She's a comic book reader and a fan of action but still a "fangirl", just because people are one thing doesn't mean that's all they are.

A couple of days ago DC on twitter was asking fans about what they want for S4, again,scroll thru it you'll find that "fangirls" have a lot of requests that have nothing to do with shipping, about Felicity sl, Diggle sl,Oliver,Thea,friendships,OG3 missions,HIVE, FS father etc etc etc

All of this to say that i agree with you, they do take it seriously,and put a lot of effort in creating buzz for the show.

 

Funny thing tho, there is not a single con where Stephen doesn't get asked about his training routine or his favorite superhero and although he answered that a million times in cons and on his FB Q&A's, people still ask. Obviously he will be asked about Olicity and Felicity, it's a part of the show and his character, and to be honest even when he's not, SA brings it out anyway 

Edited June 18, 2015 by Balaclava

[wingster55]

What's wrong with asking numerous questions? If the reporters are asking for it, then what's the problem? Obviously they don't have to answer those questions. Nor is the person who's asking expecting them to. 

So a person tweeting at a reporter the same question over and over isn't hounding, and thus not annoying to that person? I would think it is. 

 

If you scroll thru the eps mentions you'll see it, "fangirls" do care about the show and characters as individuals.

 

I never said they didn't. 

 

As an aside (well semi-aside), those who ask for Stephen/Emily joint interviews bug me the most. That's bordering on special treatment. 

[dtissagirl]

It's the excess. Anything done in excess isn't a good thing imo.

The network disagrees with you there. ALL THEY WANT is fandom creating as much free content as possible.

As for getting Thea more visibility, my advice is: create more Thea content on Twitter and Tumblr. Write fic, make gifposts, write more meta, share more images and links related to her, comment on every post that mentions her in a positive way. Find other Thea fans on Twitter and organize trends, hang out at the Thea-related hashtags and find other people also willing to create Thea-related content, and then *keep posting* said content. And then try to double the volume of content. Repeat as needed.

Imo, you can't really complain that fandom doesn't give visibility to your fave if you're not doing the work.

And truth is, ultimately, complaining about Felicity and Oliver/Felicity also gives them more visibility. I've said it before, backlash is different than outright rejection. If you want other stuff noticed, you gotta do the work, because trying to police what other people in fandom are doing for their faves pretty much only motivates them. The equation goes, someone says, "ugh, fangirls", and the fangirls multiply. No, really.

[EmeraldArcher]

As an aside (well semi-aside), those who ask for Stephen/Emily joint interviews bug me the most. That's bordering on special treatment.

"Special treatment"?!? SA plays the title character--he's the star of the show! EBR plays the love interest to the title character! They deserve special treatment!

Any notion that they don't must originate from the show's really bad decision to dilute the show with too many other masked characters. You shouldn't forget that the show is called Arrow--it's OQ's story, and Felicity is now a critical part of his story.

[apinknightmare]

As an aside (well semi-aside), those who ask for Stephen/Emily joint interviews bug me the most. That's bordering on special treatment. 

 

Just curious - special treatment how? 

[HighHopes]

As an aside (well semi-aside), those who ask for Stephen/Emily joint interviews bug me the most. That's bordering on special treatment.

The main ship for shows (and movies) have been doing joint interviews and/or photoshoots for decades. It's not special treatment if that's how Hollywood works.

And the fact of the matter is Olicity is the main ship of the show. Both the EPs and Amell have said it. You might not like the ship or want the ship to happen but it is happening and unfortunately it is something that will be talked about by the media.

Edited June 17, 2015 by HighHopes

[wonderwall]

So a person tweeting at a reporter the same question over and over isn't hounding, and thus not annoying to that person? I would think it is. 

 

I would only consider it hounding if the intent were malicious and if the people asking said questions were upset whether their questions were chosen or not (which most of the time it isn't the case). It's quite likely that they ask so many questions just so they can be seen just like what I do with MG. They probably get so many tweets from so many different fandoms that you need to tweet more than just a few times to be seen. I don't see that as an issue. 

Edited June 17, 2015 by wonderwall

[tv echo]

Regarding the Emmy submissions...

ArrowWritersRoom ‏@ARROWwriters  40m40 minutes ago
BIGGEST congrats to @amellywood @MzKatieCassidy @EmilyBett on their @TheEmmys consideration! Voters....do not fail this city! #Sinceriously

https://twitter.com/ARROWwriters

Edited June 17, 2015 by tv echo

[SmallScreenDiva]

Like HighHopes said, the main couple on shows and movies have done joint interviews and photo shoots for decades. Stephen Amell and Katie Cassidy did those for Season 1 of Arrow. I understood when they've shied away from them for Season 2 because the romance aspect of the show was in transition. I was really hoping they would do more promotion for Olicity for Season 3 — and was disappointed. But now that the characters have literally driven off into the sunset, then yes, I would love if they did more to promote them. It's not special treatment. It's promotion.

Edited June 17, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[dtissagirl]

And FYI, the episode submitted to the Special Effects category was This Is Your Sword. 

[kismet]

Sometimes it takes different phrasing of a question to get the attention of the writer/producer/minion that has to process all the online questions coming into social media sites. So I don't consider it hounding if the sources are asking for the interaction like many entertainment sites & showrunners/occasional actors are. There are sometimes when tagging to certain people is overexcessive, but that is the nature of the beast in social media these days.

 

Honestly, its the choice of the reporter/showrunner/actor/writer to respond to whatever questions they want. They pick and choose what they want to answer and how they want to answer it. There are many times when I sit there and wonder how they chose that question amongst thousands/millions to answer. And then with some responses, I wonder how/why they thought that was the best or most savvy answer to give. In the end, its their prerogative to use social media however they want to use it.

 

Its all a business... everyone is creating buzz. Its not just coincidental that questions get answers when the show is recently to air/premiere/recently finished. For example, if you follow some of the entertainment sites - with the summer shows now premiering there is an uptick in questions being answered about those shows. Does it mean that the fans of those shows are finally asking their questions? No it means the business end of the reporting, is now promoting answering those questions over others. I've seen many questions from fandoms regarding shows on hiatus that get asked constantly, but don't get answered until the show is back from hiatus.

[wingster55]

Just curious - special treatment how? 

They're asking for it at SDCC hoping to influence the scheduling of the thing so their ship can interview together. 

For the most part SDCC interviews with the whole cast or if too large in pieces with the exception of roundtable (see all interviews last year)

 

As for getting Thea more visibility, my advice is: create more Thea content on Twitter and Tumblr. Write fic, make gifposts, write more meta, share more images and links related to her, comment on every post that mentions her in a positive way. Find other Thea fans on Twitter and organize trends, hang out at the Thea-related hashtags and find other people also willing to create Thea-related content, and then *keep posting* said content. And then try to double the volume of content. Repeat as needed.

 

You're assuming I'm not trying to push for her as much as I can. Or for Diggle. 

[apinknightmare]

They're asking for it at SDCC hoping to influence the scheduling of the thing so their ship can interview together. 

For the most part SDCC interviews with the whole cast or if too large in pieces with the exception of roundtable (see all interviews last year)

 

To be fair, people who have been asking for a joint interview have been asking for one for a VERY long time. SDCC is probably the target now since it's the next round of publicity for the show - if they don't get one there, they'll move onto the next big event to try and get it to happen. And SA and EBR did a joint interview at SDCC two years ago, so now that they're an actual couple on the show I don't think it's a big deal. The main couples on other shows interview together all the time. 

[Balaclava]

As an aside (well semi-aside), those who ask for Stephen/Emily joint interviews bug me the most. That's bordering on special treatment. 

 

Special treatment? why would you say that? aren't they the show main couple? Olicity got no promotion whatsoever in S3, neither did Arrow by the way and believe me that was asked for a lot, and when MG got asked about it he said "reach the CW" so they did

It's kind of naive to think that having the opportunity to cash on Olicity they won't, again this is business, Olicity brings them money and they know it 

[DrSpaceman10]

It would make sense, to me at least, that Stephen and Emily would be the two actors from Arrow most likely to be interviewed. They both have the most screen time, most appearances on The Flash, most media attention, and are seemingly the most popular. 

[dtissagirl]

You're assuming I'm not trying to push for her as much as I can. Or for Diggle. 

 

 

Just one example, but: the Thea Queen hashtag on Tumblr gets about 15 posts a day max . Most days it doesn't reach 10 posts. That is some super low volume of fandom content being created for her.

Edited June 17, 2015 by dancingnancy

[wingster55]

Special treatment for those fans...since they ask, and ask, and ask. And they get what the want for being persistently annoying. It's like when fans wanted Amell on Seth Meyers. They begged and pleaded until NBC got annoyed. It's the same thing. 

 

Just one example, but: the Thea Queen hashtag on Tumblr gets about 15 posts a day max . Most days it doesn't reach 10 posts.

She's not internet popular. Neither is Diggle. Thus any question or post etc of those two will get drowned out. It may not be annoying to most of you since it's what you want..but the rest?

It's like if all of a sudden every article, interview etc was about Laurel. Would you not be annoyed? Spread the love. 

Edited June 17, 2015 by wingster55

[kismet]

Not sure of every detail of how the Emmy submissions work. Thank you to those posters that have tried to enlighten us! But I have to agree that exposure is exposure, especially in Hollywood. You never know when somebody maybe looking for a certain talent. There have been stories of people landing auditions/roles from clips certain teams saw during award season voting. Just having their names out there attached to quality work may help them land future projects. There's no shame in working the Emmy game in whatever small way you can.

 

I have to admit, I'm a sucker for award shows. I will watch and have been watching many award shows for most of my life. So I do notice some trends in voting and in nomination. There are certain shows like the Golden Globes that are more wild card races. I was over the moon when Keri Russell won for Felicity back in the day. I enjoyed the exposure & recognition it gave the show/actress. But it also shows the wins don't actually translate into traction in other races that take themselves more seriously like the Emmys. A lot of it depends on behind the scenes juggernaut that is the award season. There is a lot of money thrown into all of these award races and sometimes that overshadows/heavily influences who should be nominated/win. But everybody knows its a big business and game. There is no expected objectivity. Its nice when there are surprise wins like Keri Russell or Gina Rodriguez - but most of the time these nominations/awards are more predictable than surprising.

 

Honestly, sometimes I think the Guild Awards are the most neutral to the influence of money/trends/buzz because they are voted/nominated I believe by the people in that guild. So its people voting in their own expertise/knowledge/professional experience area, which feels like a more authentic & insightful representation of who should win. Then again the Guild Award winners often influence the voting/nomination of Academy & other awards, so it then becomes part of the beast as well. Oh well, in the end I will still love award shows despite all of their flaws.

[kismet]

And FYI, the episode submitted to the Special Effects category was This Is Your Sword. 

Makes sense that is the episode that had the TA fighting LoA in NP in the light of the desert, Tatsu/Maseo swordplay, the FB car chase scene (which had SA hanging off a car) the Atom flew into a plane, & fight/effects sequences during the "brainwashing". So there is a lot for the voters to observe/evaluate.

 

People say that most of wins/nominates are made or broken by the episodes that are submitted. There have been some submissions from certain shows & actors that you wonder what they were thinking when they chose to submit that episode. And then there are some episodes that you can tell were written specifically or at least heavily influenced by a possible submission consideration.

[quarks]

And FYI, the episode submitted to the Special Effects category was This Is Your Sword. 

 

Interesting. I would have picked "The Brave and the Bold," but that just goes to show why I shouldn't pick these things.

 

 

Honestly, sometimes I think the Guild Awards are the most neutral to the influence of money/trends/buzz because they are voted/nominated I believe by the people in that guild. So its people voting in their own expertise/knowledge/professional experience area, which feels like a more authentic & insightful representation of who should win. Then again the Guild Award winners often influence the voting/nomination of Academy & other awards, so it then becomes part of the beast as well. Oh well, in the end I will still love award shows despite all of their flaws.

 

The WGA awards (Writer's Guild) have been subject to logrolling/campaigning.  My guess would be that some of the same stuff happens with the other guild awards.

[Balaclava]

Special treatment for those fans...since they ask, and ask, and ask. And they get what the want for being persistently annoying. It's like when fans wanted Amell on Seth Meyers. They begged and pleaded until NBC got annoyed. It's the same thing. 

 

Fans get nothing from the eps because they ask for it, it doesn't work like that, look at AK and MG words about that, Olicity didn't happen because people asked for it, it's the eps plan not the fans, by the time we see ep1 of S4 they are already writing way ahead of that, do you think if i ask stuff for ep3 and it happens it's because i tweeted them? or do you thing they made L bc because of all the hate mail they got? I also wonder if you know that the eps want to be asked about things regarding the show , why do you think that MG is on tumblr? Why do you thing that when we do not tweet him, he tweets us?

Also you do know that SA wanted the fans to ask NBC for it don't you? 

[wonderwall]

Special treatment for those fans...since they ask, and ask, and ask. And they get what the want for being persistently annoying. It's like when fans wanted Amell on Seth Meyers. They begged and pleaded until NBC got annoyed. It's the same thing.

Yikes, just be careful with what you're saying here because it's bordering on offensive because now you're just attacking the fandom for caring enough to show support to what they like. There are people here who sometimes ask the EPs stuff or the network to promote the show better, like myself, so just be careful. 

 

Honestly though, I don't see why people have to make a big deal out of it when they're not affected in any way? Sometimes to get what you want you have to ask for it. Show that there's a demand for it, show that people still love it. It may be annoying to you because people are asking for something you don't necessarily care for, but networks look out for this kind of stuff to see what to promote. It's their job. 

 

Stephen Amell got onto the Seth Meyer show because he wanted to and he himself asked his fans. SA was happy, the Arrow fandom was happy, so..... what's the big deal? It's not like the fans were holding the NBC hostage. They saw that there was a demand for SA to be on teh show and they followed through with it. You're makign it seem as though one exec just got annoyed by the fans and said "fuck it, just have him on the show so they can shut up"... No it doesn't work like that. It takes a lot of work figuring out who to interview and who not to interview. 

 

It's like if all of a sudden every article, interview etc was about Laurel. Would you not be annoyed? Spread the love.

 

 

 

You're deflecting here and steering the debate away from the point. This is not the scenario and nor will it ever be, frankly speaking. So it's not relevant to the conversation right now.

Edited June 17, 2015 by wonderwall

[lemotomato]

Special treatment for those fans...since they ask, and ask, and ask. And they get what the want for being persistently annoying. It's like when fans wanted Amell on Seth Meyers. They begged and pleaded until NBC got annoyed. It's the same thing. 

She's not internet popular. Neither is Diggle. Thus any question or post etc of those two will get drowned out. It may not be annoying to most of you since it's what you want..but the rest?

It's like if all of a sudden every article, interview etc was about Laurel. Would you not be annoyed? Spread the love. 

So all the excessive fan behavior you find annoying-- the begging, pleading, voting, persistent questions-- would be acceptable if it was directed at bringing more focus to your favorite characters? 

[catrox14]

I'm kind of surprised at the condemnation of online voting and how it is only obsessed fangirls voting. That's crap IMO

 

The EOnline vote allows for unlimited voting. Therefore the voting goes on for a long time and it gets promoted on Tumblr and Twitter. Not sure if that's the same for the Teen Choice.  Same with People's Choice Awards.

 

Full disclosure I'm a huge Jensen Ackles fan and am voting the hell out of him on Eonline vote because he and sadly Stephen will never get Emmy nominations even though IMO they would both be worthy of such honors.  So my next best way to get Jensen some well deserved recognition for his outstanding acting skills and because I have the time right now, I am going to push that button until it burns up. 

 

It's the way the system is setup.  Fans don't have any input with Emmys etc and often the Emmys have long ignored genre shows so this is plan B through Z.  

[JJ928]

Special treatment for those fans...since they ask, and ask, and ask. And they get what the want for being persistently annoying. It's like when fans wanted Amell on Seth Meyers. They begged and pleaded until NBC got annoyed. It's the same thing. 

She's not internet popular. Neither is Diggle. Thus any question or post etc of those two will get drowned out. It may not be annoying to most of you since it's what you want..but the rest?

It's like if all of a sudden every article, interview etc was about Laurel. Would you not be annoyed? Spread the love. 

 

I don't know about Thea. I wasn't a big fan of hers until this season but there is a a lot of Diggle support on twitter. Diggle has had several successful trends & twitter events - where people tweet the EP's & network what they'd like to see for him. Things are quiet on the Diggle front at the moment, but I know there are planned campaigns coming up for him. Now a lot of the people participating & planning these campaigns are also Olicity fans, that may be why you're not finding them. I know that a bunch of us are hoping there's a people's choice category we can nominate him in January, yes it's far away, but people are already planning. I follow a lot of people that love Thea/Willa and would probably be willing to help you campaign for her but they're Olicity fans, & you seem rather put off by them. 

 

Also, if you can rally enough people, nominations for TCA, People's Choice, E! polls... the network loves those things. It would give Thea more media attention & with that she'd probably get some more love from the network. Same goes for Laurel. I've seen people upset she didn't get a TCA nomination but no one voted to nominate her.

[dtissagirl]

I'm the opposite -- I seldom vote for online polls, especially if I have to click more than once, or THE HORROR, if there are CAPTCHAS involved. But I'm not gonna condemn people who do it, and I'm never gonna try and police what kind of activities fandom should and shouldn't do. And hey, I muted all TCA related hashtags on Twitter because they annoyed me, but I'm not gonna tell people to please stop posting it because it's annoying.

Edited June 17, 2015 by dancingnancy

[wonderwall]

@Wingster55 All I'm saying is, in the end, shippers work hard to get what they want (like voting, asking questions, going to cons, communicating with the show runners) while the people who complain about them getting what they want show a sense of entitelment because they don't feel they have to work as hard to get what they want, they should merely just be given promotion, spoilers, and whatnot. 

 

Don't attack the passionate fanbase and call them annoying for being passionate and speaking up because they're not doing anything wrong, blame the side of the fandom who don't put in the same amount of effort into aspects of the show they like. Because the shippers aren't the problem here, it's the complacency of the other part of the fandom... You know, the part that doesn't try at all, instead they just put all their efforts into hating on Olicity hoping that their comments will make the EPs listen and change the direction of the show. 

 

It's nice that you try to speak up, and it's sad that your tweets get drowned out. But blaming the shippers for that won't do anything. Why not look at the side that isn't making enough noise at all? Maybe you could be the smoakandarrow of that part of the fandom and rally for what you like? Because I'm sure if someone wants to rally for Thea or Diggle people will join in. Even people from the Olicity fandom.

 

That's just me though. I never try to discourage people from doing something positive.

 

Anyways, my break's over! Back to the ol' grind. It was nice debating/arguing with you @Wingster55 have a good day

Edited June 17, 2015 by wonderwall

[calliope1975]

Honestly, sometimes I think the Guild Awards are the most neutral to the influence of money/trends/buzz because they are voted/nominated I believe by the people in that guild. So its people voting in their own expertise/knowledge/professional experience area, which feels like a more authentic & insightful representation of who should win. Then again the Guild Award winners often influence the voting/nomination of Academy & other awards, so it then becomes part of the beast as well. Oh well, in the end I will still love award shows despite all of their flaws.

 

The Guild/union awards do have fellow members voting, but they can fall into the same traps as all the other awards shows. (If Modern Family wins one more time...) The fact that there is an Awards Season is ridiculous. Yet, I watch (and work) the shows, too, so I contribute partially to the madness. 

[kismet]

The WGA awards (Writer's Guild) have been subject to logrolling/campaigning.  My guess would be that some of the same stuff happens with the other guild awards.

No awards are without campaigning! :) Just appreciate that the guilds are voted on more so by your peers than some other award shows that allow voting outside of peer groups. Because I do think peers know what it takes to do what you do from a firsthand experience, thereby hopefully when they vote that influences their choices. Then again there is always hero-worship.... so perhaps it is not as unbiased? I'm beginning to spin myself out of my own spin. So it goes in trying to figure out Hollywood.

 

Either way awards are fun, but they are not without bias or influence from external/internal powers. They will never be considered objective or without influence. Its even sometimes as innocent as word of mouth or momentum. Some shows/actors just hit the perfect moment at the perfect time and magic happens without any diabolical or conspiratorial plottings.

Edited June 17, 2015 by kismet

[dtissagirl]

It's like if all of a sudden every article, interview etc was about Laurel. Would you not be annoyed? Spread the love. 

 

If Laurel were the focus of every article and interview then I'd assume she'd also have more focus on the show itself, and so I would have quit the show a long time ago, and not be a part of fandom nor reading articles and interviews so... no, I wouldn't be annoyed because I wouldn't be seeing any of it.

[statsgirl]

I would be surprised if Arrow gets nominated for stunts this year. IMO, the quality of the stunt work has taken a step back compared to previous seasons. The only stunt sequences that have stuck with me this season were the big TA/LOA fight in ep 22 and the Nyssa/Oliver/Malcolm brawl in episode 4. I don't know what the competition's like, but to me, Arrow was more deserving of a nom in previous years.

I agree that overall the Arrow stunts have got worse this year, possible because the budget went to The Flash and Ray's Atom suit.  But it is still better than any of the five shows nominated for stunts at last year's Emmys.  (I think The Blacklist was one. Seriously. They were a bunch of shows with the most mediocre stunts on TV.)

 

The Emmys are a huge popularity contest where cable shows are given importance out of what they actually produce.

 

 

It's like SDCC panels when even on a panel without EBR there was 0 talk of Oliver and Thea. It was mostly the ships (Olicity but also Thea/Roy)...that kinda bugged me.

 

There's little talk of sibling relationships because other than Supernatural, there's little interest in sibling relationships.   Even on a show like Grey's Anatomy, it was Mer/Der, not Derek and his sister or Meredith and Lexie.   If you want to know about Thea/Willa Holland, there's more chance if it's a Thea/Roy or Thea/Malcolm question.

 

As others have pointed out, there was a lot of joint interviews/promos with SA and KC in season 1 when Laurel was Oliver's love interest.  Even now, there are more interviews with SA and KC (IGN at SDCC 2014; TCAs) than there are with him and EBR even though it's Felicity who is tied to Oliver's growth as a character now and not Laurel.

 

 

I think it's unfair that the fans who spend their own free time giving the show free promotion (because the CW sure doesn't give "Arrow" the time of day anymore) get ridiculed while apparently the "real fans" spend their time posting vitriol and complaining about how the show is "ruined" in every comments section of every article written about "Arrow".

The CW really does seem to have given up on Arrow except as part of the superhero fight club.  At this point, it feels like it's the enthusiastic fans, voting for awards like Best Kiss or Best Ending To a Mediocre Season that are going to bring new viewers in.  People look at the awards, even if they're only internet ones, and think "Maybe I'll give that show a chance."

[dtissagirl]

Maybe it's because I'm old and I want my experience in fandom to be FUN first and foremost, but it escapes my mind why would someone interact in fandom spaces that they deem annoying. Like, I used to watch TVD. And I 'shipped Caroline/Tyler. My TVD fandom experience? Great! I found the people who liked the same pairing as I did, and I only ever saw their posts and fanart and fic. I didn't go anywhere near any TVD fandom space that didn't cater to my preferences.

 

Same thing with Smallville. You know all those toxic and traumatic experiences people in SV fandom had? I've never had them. I found the places and the people who 'shipped Chloe/Ollie and I stuck with them and made lifelong friendships. I created a shit ton of Chloe/Ollie content for about three years, and that content was consumed only by the people who loved my OTP. I didn't go to general forums, didn't follow general fans, I didn't even go to TWOP, because I didn't like how the forum as a whole perceived Lois. So I got rid of everything in those fandoms that I find annoying from my fandom experience. But never at anytime I'd go to a public forum and complain that the fandom wasn't catering to my interests, or the show and the media was being ~unfair to me. In fact, a couple of people in Chloe/Ollie fandom felt over the top entitled to me, so I distanced myself from them. Because ultimately, I want to be in fandom to have fun. But never at anytime I have the right to tell anyone else in fandom how they should make their experience fun. It's up to me to control my experience. Nobody else's.

 

Edit: even my presence in this forum is related to being in a fandom space that caters to my preferences. More than what imo is the smartest Arrow place to be, the main reason I participate here is because this forum is Felicity and O/F friendly. If it weren't? I definitely wouldn't be here.

Edited June 17, 2015 by dancingnancy

[tarotx]

Entertainment awards of all kinds are about exposure. Yes even the BIG awards. And they are ALL opinion based rather you want to except that are not. Some are the opinions of those in the business, others the press and some are those of passionate fans. They all matter when it comes to exposure. That's not just my opinion. We are talking about industries that rely on people enjoying something enough to spend time and money.

And the reason it's important to submit your best work for an Emmy is because they can and often catch the eye of a producer, director or studio executive. And more work comes you way. Most Actors don't submit because it cost money. It's often the show or network who submits as part of promo.

[Chaser]

This is Your Sword is an odd choice because the stunts are really kind of bad on re watch. The stunt doubles were really awkward.

 

Everything dancingnancy said regarding fandoms btw. I will never understand fans who hate on others for what they enjoy. Or fans who constantly complain about what they don't enjoy. Either move on to what you do or move on from the show. 

[quarks]

Just appreciate that the guilds are voted on more so by your peers than some other award shows that allow voting outside of peer groups. Because I do think peers know what it takes to do what you do from a firsthand experience, thereby hopefully when they vote that influences their choices. 

 

Well, I can only speak for the WGA here, but I think a number of factors go into nominating/voting, and the ones that have to do with industry experience aren't always the positive ones.  A previous bad experience with a studio, for instance, might create a conscious or unconscious bias. 

 

I also think that fans have some - not much, but some - impact on industry awards. As much as I loved The Lord of the Rings films, for instance, I find it difficult to believe that The Return of the King would have won that many Oscars without the fan response, which helped bring all three films to the attention of the Academy. Loud, enthusiastic fan response might get me to check something out, for instance, or might get other nominators to check something out, which in turn will land something on a ballot.  I listen to the recommendations here, for instance, and I've mentioned some of them to industry nominators/voters. Did that have an effect? I have no idea, to be honest, but maybe?  

[kismet]

Well, I can only speak for the WGA here, but I think a number of factors go into nominating/voting, and the ones that have to do with industry experience aren't always the positive ones.  A previous bad experience with a studio, for instance, might create a conscious or unconscious bias. 

 

I also think that fans have some - not much, but some - impact on industry awards. As much as I loved The Lord of the Rings films, for instance, I find it difficult to believe that The Return of the King would have won that many Oscars without the fan response, which helped bring all three films to the attention of the Academy. Loud, enthusiastic fan response might get me to check something out, for instance, or might get other nominators to check something out, which in turn will land something on a ballot.  I listen to the recommendations here, for instance, and I've mentioned some of them to industry nominators/voters. Did that have an effect? I have no idea, to be honest, but maybe?  

I think you're right. There are many influences that get stuff to the ballot & create winners. In movie series, sometimes they say that voters hold off until the final movie to vote. There are also many times when people win something for a project a year or so after their amazing project that they really deserved the award for. So its all a big equation of timing, money, influence, interest, quality & an undefinable elements. And I do think public opinion does factor into that equation. I believe it is one of the reasons that Oscar movie category can be up to 10 films now, and not just the old 5. The Academy wanted to acknowledge some of the broader movies that impact the industry.

[anamika]

 

Well, first, I'm not sure the Emmys necessarily reward the objectively "best" of the year in any category. That's not a knock on the Emmys - I'm not sure that any award does.  Quite apart from the problem of determining what is objectively "best" to begin with. 

 

Oh, definitely agree. After all, the Emmys ignored The Wire during its run and The Wire is more or less considered one of The best shows out there. And a lot of the shows/actors get nominated or win because of popularity and hype. At the same time, lets be serious here. Are people really saying that Arrow is or would be a realistic Emmy nominee for anything??

 

Second, I strongly disagree regarding Daredevil. It might well get on the ballot, since Emmy voters have liked Netflix shows so far and Daredevil got a lot of positive critical recognition. But it had basically one, admittedly great, stunt sequence this season. All of the other stunts (and even that one) were shot in low light for a reason.  Arrow had at least 12 Emmy worthy stunt sequences this season - notably the Hong Kong bar sequence in episode 11; the major city/chase sequences in episode 18; the truck stunt in episode 20; the group stunt sequence/major Tatsu/Maseo sword fight in episode 22; and yes, even the sillier stunt sequences like the motorcycle jousting in episode 2 and the car crash in episode 6.  Plus, Arrow has a lower per-episode budget, making that more impressive.

 

Daredevil got positive critical reception for a reason. And the one stunt sequence stands out for a reason. They wanted to do something different and they spend a whole lot of effort on doing it right in the little time they had. Innovation is good.  And the other stunts were pretty damn good as well. Matt vs Nobu or Matt vs Healy where they fight around the tight space surrounding the car, the warehouse blowing up etc. After watching Daredevil, Arrow stunts look like child play. When Oliver pushes his sword into Ra's one can actually see the sword moving along the side. It was rather silly. 

 

And who cares if Arrow did stunts on a lower budget. That's not going to be a factor when they give awards. What matters is who did the best job. And on this, it was definitely daredevil. This is a pretty universally held opinion and I am surprised that people actually think that Arrow's season 3 stunts are better than Daredevil. I would say that Arrow season one and two stunts come close to Daredevil's but Arrow season three stunts were rubbish.

 

Third, regarding the other shows mentioned: Banshee doesn't seem to be on anyone's radar. I believe that Sense8 is eligible next year, not this year.  GoT will probably get a nomination, though you are overestimating that show's budget.  It's not out of the question for Arrow to get an Emmy nod for stunts this year, or even, though in my opinion it's unlikely, for effects. True, some of the animation for the Atom suit was downright sloppy, but some of the effects work in episodes 6, 8, 9 and 22 was beautifully done - especially Barry's entrance in episode 8.

 

What makes you think that a CW show will be on the Emmy radar but not an Alan Ball helmed show that has a cult following?  It's pretty much universally acknowledged that Banshee has some of the best fight and stunt choreography on television. Just type in Nola Vs Burton and see the number of youtube videos, comments and discussions about it. The difference between shows like Daredevil/Banshee and Arrow is that the former can do things that a CW network show cannot, making their fights more brutal, raw and animalistic and hence giving it a realistic tone.

 

GOT has approximately 6 mill per episode and it shows. How can any TV show compare to the effects we saw on 'Hardhome'? That was movie quality and I doubt Arrow comes anywhere close. Netflix/Starz/HBO/Cable have more money to throw at their shows for CGI and costumes.  And if a CW show can get an Emmy nod for effects I think the logical choice here would be Flash and not Arrow.

 

Regarding the Teen Choice Awards - sure, the Teen Choice Awards aren't particularly prestigious in part because of the internet voting factor. That said, viewers willing to spend time clicking away at the Teen Choice Awards are presumably invested enough in the show to buy DVDs/Blu-Rays/merchandise, which from the network/WB point of view is important. 

 

And you think that people who are not spending their time clicking away on online polls don't buy DVDs and merchandise?  HBO makes most of their money off the very expensive GOT merchandise and DVDs but I don't see anyone winning any awards there for best kiss or best couple or all that. Flash is the CW's most popular show with a 1.5 rating (As opposed to Arrow's 1.0) and quite a few of  it's largely male viewing audience plan on buying DVDs  when it comes out. 

 

People will buy DVDs and merchandise if they like a show well enough, even if they don't have the time or inclination to vote for Teen Awards. Winning Teen Awards is not indicative of anything except that Amell and EBR have some dedicated fangirls and that the CW's audience likes them really, really well. Next season Arrow will still most probably get a 0.9- 1.0 rating while  Flash will continue to be their flagship show. And maybe Arrow may get 10 seasons (God Forbid!) like SPN because of its dedicated fanbase.

 

Ugh. I feel like people who complain about SA's "wooden" acting aren't able to discern OQ's post-island guardedness from SA's ability to portray it. Seriously! I'm not claiming that his performance on the show is Emmy-worthy (mostly because I don't pay attention to award shows), but I think SA does a fantastic job playing multiple versions of OQ, from his intonation, posture, mannerisms, and physicality. His wretched wig in the FB isn't what convinces me that he's younger and makes poor choices; it's his petulance and the fact that every part of him oozes being afraid and overwhelmed.

 

 

Yes, I am not able to make out all that nuance and 'guardedness' there from his blank face. Some really good acting, to have the audience come up with stories to account for his inability to emote. His 'Post-Island guardedness' in season 3 was even worse but maybe that was because it was his 'being brain-washed guardedness'.  The only thing going for him is his 6 pack and good physicality for the role. He needs to spend less time on twitter and more time taking up some acting classes. He is certainly not going to learn any acting from his fellow arrow cast. Maybe if he had more scenes with Diggle.

   

But what do I know? I'm just a fan girl.

 

Indeed.

Edited June 18, 2015 by anamika

[apinknightmare]

But what do I know? I'm just a fan girl.

Indeed.

I think next time you should throw a few more "fangirls" in there just to drive the dismissiveness home, because I'm still just a liiiiittle confused about whether or not my opinion matters. I occasionally vote in online polls though, so I guess maybe it doesn't? Edited June 18, 2015 by apinknightmare