Veronica Mars Unpopular Opinions

[Affogato]

On 3/20/2017 at 2:50 PM, marshmallows said:

 

Okay I see where you are coming from about the more pain later.  I can definitely understand that POV.  I just have a different one.  For me, the deal breaker still should have been Dick because she obviously isn't over the GHB thing since she makes a huge deal about how Madison gave her the drugged drink and wrote slut on her car.  She was obviously fine with him hooking up with some random girl- He tells her and then asks if she still loves him and she replies "Yes" in a sweet tone then they kiss.  Then all is good until she finds out he slept with Madison and she instantly brings up the GHB. So for me, it is most definitely what her trust issues with him bulls down to. So him sleeping with Madison brought all those feelings to the surface. I understand her feelings, but really if I were her- his and Dick's relationship would have been done or we would have been. I probably could have forgiven him with time for the Madison thing since she really had no idea what was up with the drink and just thought Veronica was all over her boyfriend because she was drunk. 

 

I'm obviously a LoVe shipper, so I'm just going to leave that as you and I see them differently.  I think Veronica was unfair to him a lot of the time. But, I also think Logan did a lot of idiotic things. I don't think their relationship issues were one-sided. I think it was a combination of her unwillingness to open up and let anyone in, in fear of being hurt, and his self-destructive behavior.

I also think they both had a hard time letting each other go. The only way that worked is when she moved away to Stanford, because as long as they are in close proximity to one another they are like a month to a flame- no matter how dangerous and explosive they just can't get enough.  

And once they both grew up they were better matches for each other than they ever could have been as kids.  He needed to gain a sense of self and she needed to learn to be okay with being vulnerable.  I think she is still working on it on her end, but I think Logan knows who he is now and is a pretty stable companion for Veronica.

Okay, what is amazing is that because of the power of transformative fandom we would sit next to the couch and watch Veronica Mars and see a totally different television show. My thing is that it isn't a romance, it is basically a hero's quest. Think Buffy the vampire slayer, except that Buffy, before she was hit with the geas stick, was essentially Lilly and one of the themes of Buffy is that women being women is a strength, she gathers the scoobies and they keep her alive. Veronica, also a quest, but her personality is made of up things that are usually associated with men. Which really pisses people off, Nancy Drew was fairly masculine and gets castrated a little more every time she's revived.

You seem to be watching well, Veronica, I mean Elena, nice girl, smart and girlish, horrible things happen with her family. She takes responsibility past her years  and then meets these two brothers. Both Vampires, but one is trying not to be a vampire, Duncan, I mean Stephan, and ...well, the actress flees as soon as her contract is over, t but we know she will pick Damon, or ...well, Logan, the exciting one...well, I hope you see the comparison. I watched it, for at least the first five years, a little less regularly for the rest, but a romance, a different story.

Not as good a story, I think.

Frankly, what did they ever have in common? In mkat, what do they do? Veronica may end up having to join his group of Navy peopoe, for him, but is this anything she wants? Is he even going to try to be part of her life? If you cared about the characters maybe think that they could be still so much better off with someone else.

[marshmallows]

On 3/26/2017 at 11:16 PM, Affogato said:

Okay, what is amazing is that because of the power of transformative fandom we would sit next to the couch and watch Veronica Mars and see a totally different television show. My thing is that it isn't a romance, it is basically a hero's quest. Think Buffy the vampire slayer, except that Buffy, before she was hit with the geas stick, was essentially Lilly and one of the themes of Buffy is that women being women is a strength, she gathers the scoobies and they keep her alive. Veronica, also a quest, but her personality is made of up things that are usually associated with men. Which really pisses people off, Nancy Drew was fairly masculine and gets castrated a little more every time she's revived.

You seem to be watching well, Veronica, I mean Elena, nice girl, smart and girlish, horrible things happen with her family. She takes responsibility past her years  and then meets these two brothers. Both Vampires, but one is trying not to be a vampire, Duncan, I mean Stephan, and ...well, the actress flees as soon as her contract is over, t but we know she will pick Damon, or ...well, Logan, the exciting one...well, I hope you see the comparison. I watched it, for at least the first five years, a little less regularly for the rest, but a romance, a different story.

Not as good a story, I think.

Frankly, what did they ever have in common? In mkat, what do they do? Veronica may end up having to join his group of Navy peopoe, for him, but is this anything she wants? Is he even going to try to be part of her life? If you cared about the characters maybe think that they could be still so much better off with someone else.

I feel like you took what I said and totally twisted it out of context.  We were specifically discussing Veronica's trust issues with Logan and the LoVe ship in general.  

But, Yes, both shows Veronica Mars and BtVS are shows about a hero and her quest. And during their quests they are both romantically involved with people. Buffy is almost never single, whereas Veronica was single for a lot of s1 and parts of s2 and s3.  I don't agree that Veronica's personality is always associated with men.  I think a huge facet of her personality actually has to do with two women: her mother and Lily. The fact that her bestfriend was brutally murdered and then her alcoholic mother left her.  

I'm going to try to make the best response to this second paragraph as I can, because I am not sure I fully understood what you said.  But, for the record I have seen TVD and I cannot stand Damon and Elena together. He is a sociopath who tried to kill her brother more than once and would have succeeded if not for that Gilbert bring you back to life ring.  He basically raped Caroline. He tortured his brother and his only interest in Elena was a form of torturing Stefan.  Sure, he improved over the years, but no thanks to Elena because any time they broke up he went off the rails again. The only time Damon was a good person is when Elena was in her coffin and the major influence in his life was Bonnie.  It is an over-generalized and not to mention an extremely unfair comparison of Damon to Logan. Logan was a misunderstood kid who lived with an abusive father and a pilled up mom who committed suicide and leaving Logan with his sociopath of a father.  I don't agree with some of the effed up things he did in s1, but I can understand them, whereas I do not understand Damon.  Damon is evil because he finds joy in it. Logan is a teenage boy acting out because of his terrible home life and just recently losing his girlfriend to a brutal murder, that we find out later his father did.  Comparing TVD to VM also doesn't make sense, TVD is about a supernatural triangle and VM is about VM and the crimes that she solves and the relationships that she has.  Also, comparing Duncan and Stefan is unfair too. Stefan has so many layers and Duncan is very 1 dimensional (that could be due to the actor, but either way he comes off as 1-D).

 

For the what do they have in common question: Veronica and Logan were both broken souls through the tragedy they had endured and found comfort in each other.  As for personality wise- they are both very caring, act rashly, sarcastic, like to make people pay for their wrong doings, generally pretty honest.  They don't have everything in common, but that would be boring. No one person has everything in common with another person.

For that matter, what did VM have in common with Piz or Duncan? a lot less than she had with Logan.  Duncan barely spoke and Piz basically would have conformed into anything she wanted (which is so unhealthy.)

[Carrie Ann]

10 minutes ago, marshmallows said:

For that matter, what did VM have in common with Piz or Duncan? a lot less than she had with Logan.  Duncan barely spoke and Piz basically would have conformed into anything she wanted (which is so unhealthy.)

Piz also apparently expected Veronica to drop her summer internship in order to be closer to him, after dating for a handful of months? Because that's what he wanted to do regarding his own internship, but the thought never crossed Veronica's mind. I would argue that it was because that relationship was never all that important to her (as shown again in the movie), but it was also because that's not who she is.

[glorie]

On Monday, March 27, 2017 at 5:16 AM, Affogato said:

Frankly, what did they ever have in common? In mkat, what do they do? Veronica may end up having to join his group of Navy peopoe, for him, but is this anything she wants? Is he even going to try to be part of her life? If you cared about the characters maybe think that they could be still so much better off with someone else.

Well, Logan and Veronica would both have to work hard for their relationship and find a compromise.  But they have an amazing connection and it is definitively worth it. 

I never liked Piz with Veronica, because Piz didn't really know Veronica. He idolized her, but he didn't understand her other side and she never let him really get to know her.  He adored her, because she was so strong, but he never realized, how many sacrifices were behind her strength. 

However, IMO Logan and Veronica could have had a good relationship with other people too. Leo understood Veronica better than Piz, and they could have had a very easy and nice time together. And one of the healthiest Logan's relationship was in high school with Hannah. Logan was a mess in high school, he was delinquent, he made so many bad choices. But when sweet Hannah against every logic trusted him and loved him, he did the right thing and he turned into a nice and trustworthy boyfriend.

I still  think, that Logan and Veronica are perfect together,  because they understand each other and they have strong passion for each other and their feelings are so deeeeep. They also have an intellectual connection, and they both have their snarks. For some relationship you have to work harder, but it could be worth it.

What do you think about Logan's relationship with Hannah and Veronica's relationship with Leo?

Edited March 30, 2017 by glorie

[marshmallows]

18 hours ago, Carrie Ann said:

Piz also apparently expected Veronica to drop her summer internship in order to be closer to him, after dating for a handful of months? Because that's what he wanted to do regarding his own internship, but the thought never crossed Veronica's mind. I would argue that it was because that relationship was never all that important to her (as shown again in the movie), but it was also because that's not who she is.

I don't think she would have given the internship up for Logan either. But, the difference is, is that he never would have expected or wanted her too.

Piz fundamentally did not understand anything about Veronica.  He had a puppy dog crush because she was pretty and then he idolized her as @glorie said above.  

13 hours ago, glorie said:

Well, Logan and Veronica would both have to work hard for their relationship and find a compromise.  But they have an amazing connection and it is definitively worth it. 

I never liked Piz with Veronica, because Piz didn't really know Veronica. He idolized her, but he didn't understand her other side and she never let him really get to know her.  He adored her, because she was so strong, but he never realized, how many sacrifices were behind her strength. 

However, IMO Logan and Veronica could have had a good relationship with other people too. Leo understood Veronica better than Piz, and they could have had a very easy and nice time together. And one of the healthiest Logan's relationship was in high school with Hannah. Logan was a mess in high school, he was delinquent, he made so many bad choices. But when sweet Hannah against every logic trusted him and loved him, he did the right thing and he turned into a nice and trustworthy boyfriend.

I still  think, that Logan and Veronica are perfect together,  because they understand each other and they have strong passion for each other and their feelings are so deeeeep. They also have an intellectual connection, and they both have their snarks. For some relationship you have to work harder, but it could be worth it.

What do you think about Logan's relationship with Hannah and Veronica's relationship with Leo?

You couldn't have said it better about Piz.

 

I do agree with you. I think Veronica and Leo could have had a good relationship, possibly a less volatile one than Logan and Veronica. Idk about Hannah and Logan- it didn't get enough screen time for me to really feel one way or the other about them. I still definitely think it was better than him and Parker (that relationship gave me such an ick factor vibe, lol).  However, even though I think Veronica and Leo or possibly even Weevil could have made a go of it, I still prefer her with Logan.

[Syme]

On 3/26/2017 at 11:16 PM, Affogato said:

 My thing is that it isn't a romance, it is basically a hero's quest. .

...

Veronica, also a quest, but her personality is made of up things that are usually associated with men. 

 

Agreed. I have given 4+ copies of S1 to friends with teenage daughters because it's about V finding who she really is. She loses everything around her, and must pick herself up [literally; including finding her panties...] and start over; that is how she finds out what she's made of.

And that's close to my standard advice to friends re: their kid's college choices. It should be somewhere different climatically/socially/meteorologically from good-old-home. And hopefully 3+ hours away.

 

 

On 3/30/2017 at 9:48 AM, marshmallows said:

 

I do agree with you. I think Veronica and Leo could have had a good relationship, possibly a less volatile one than Logan and Veronica.

.....

However, even though I think Veronica and Leo or possibly even Weevil could have made a go of it, I still prefer her with Logan.

I think she'd be under-challenged with anyone other than Logan; it would be happy for a few years but.... [Can you tell I've seen several friends marry their Leo or a Hannah..... and watched the fire fade away?]

Edited April 15, 2017 by Syme

[Affogato]

On 3/29/2017 at 3:26 PM, marshmallows said:

For the what do they have in common question: Veronica and Logan were both broken souls through the tragedy they had endured and found comfort in each other.  As for personality wise- they are both very caring, act rashly, sarcastic, like to make people pay for their wrong doings, generally pretty honest.  They don't have everything in common, but that would be boring. No one person has everything in common with another person.

For that matter, what did VM have in common with Piz or Duncan? a lot less than she had with Logan.  Duncan barely spoke and Piz basically would have conformed into anything she wanted (which is so unhealthy.)

Sorry to have twisted what you said out of context.

You know, Veronica and Logan both had a nasty two years. Logan when he got to college found a group of people, like the 09ers, gambling and drinking and so on, and he is delighted. He is good at those relationships. He is hanging onto Veronica and having sex with her but not really involving her in this new life he has....classy relationship, eh? Ok, she wouldn't like it and he knows it. This is not having anything in common. she wants to open up her social horizons, but she wants to do things like go to galleries and lectures and whathaveyou, boring to Logan.  Now Logan has infinite time and resources, at this point, and she is working two jobs or more and doing classes with intent, but she is hurt when he hooks up with Parker and suddenly he is sweet and doing this stuff and gives her a party and she is his girlfriend before all of his friends, because he didn't even acknowledge Veronica in front of what she assumes are his friends. Was she his girlfriend during this period? No, not to any of his contacts. Sweet relationship. Yes, they care about each other but really?

Piz included her in his life, they studied and she went to concerts and learned new things, they studied together and she was allowed to show herself as tentative about sex, which she didn't dare with Logan.

[Affogato]

On 3/29/2017 at 8:10 PM, glorie said:

What do you think about Logan's relationship with Hannah and Veronica's relationship with Leo?

wa

I'm sure Logan ended up liking Hannah, he is always presented as a nice guy, but his relationship with Hannah was ploy to get himself out of trouble. It is a femme fatale move on Logan's part, but he isn't bad, he's just drawn that way. Still, Logan is psychotically overprotective and Hannah could enjoy that, she is willing to let him take the lead and he hasn't had much experience with that but isn't opposed, exactly.

Veronica and Leo actually have stuff in common. They are both pragmatic people, their interests are similar, and they both learn from doing things. They are a potential relationship and you see this in the books, too. They would make a hell of a team, but apparently not to be.

It is highschool, relationships aren't supposed to last forever.

[Affogato]

I think the thing is Veronica Mars isn't a romantic story. All of this talk about her relationship with Logan or Duncan or Piz, not really the meat of the story. The interesting thing is what she does next, and if you follow it to the movie the problem is that she denied her innate heroism.

[Affogato]

On 3/29/2017 at 3:26 PM, marshmallows said:

 

But, Yes, both shows Veronica Mars and BtVS are shows about a hero and her quest. And during their quests they are both romantically involved with people. Buffy is almost never single, whereas Veronica was single for a lot of s1 and parts of s2 and s3.  I don't agree that Veronica's personality is always associated with men.  I think a huge facet of her personality actually has to do with two women: her mother and Lily. The fact that her bestfriend was brutally murdered and then her alcoholic mother left her.  

 

Oddly, no. Veronica loses her innocence when she confronts Lamb. She has been taught to trust the law and the sheriff's office. Then she realizes she can;t go to her dad for help because he'll attack Lamb and get sent to Jail. She loses faith in the system. This is her defining moment. And she is changed profoundly but not tragically.

Her mother turns out to be a red herring. She finds Mom. She sacrifices by paying for rehab. She takes her back. She is burned. She lets her go. Later she is able to accept her presence for a case and later for Hunter. Mom is not a tragedy, Mom is handled in a completely healthy and confrontative way. So is Lilly. Lilly's murder is solved. She thinks about Lilly, finds a soft, vaseline edged place for her in her memories, lets her go. These aren't traumas, these are sad things that are handled beautifully by a strong woman.

Buffy is in relationships but it never really changes her quest, her search for herself. Veronica, not really, either. Veronicas relationships, including Logan, were always her attempts to reject her destiny, so to speak. Never the destiny.  Trust me, her life would have been fine without Logan but she needed to work for Justice, that was the loss she felt.

[Affogato]

On 4/14/2017 at 10:28 PM, Syme said:

 

 

I think she'd be under-challenged with anyone other than Logan; it would be happy for a few years but.... [Can you tell I've seen several friends marry their Leo or a Hannah..... and watched the fire fade away?]

 

Most relationships aren't forever.

I guess, as charming as Jason Dohring can be as he moves in for a kiss, I don't see what the characters have going forward and even in the time of the movie I hope for someone who will enrich her life, take her out of herself and whirl her away sometimes, take her out of herself. There is no evidence that he is a strong enough personality to actually do that, particularly during and post movie. She needs an intervention.

[marshmallows]

On 4/21/2017 at 9:59 PM, Affogato said:

Sorry to have twisted what you said out of context.

You know, Veronica and Logan both had a nasty two years. Logan when he got to college found a group of people, like the 09ers, gambling and drinking and so on, and he is delighted. He is good at those relationships. He is hanging onto Veronica and having sex with her but not really involving her in this new life he has....classy relationship, eh? Ok, she wouldn't like it and he knows it. This is not having anything in common. she wants to open up her social horizons, but she wants to do things like go to galleries and lectures and whathaveyou, boring to Logan.  Now Logan has infinite time and resources, at this point, and she is working two jobs or more and doing classes with intent, but she is hurt when he hooks up with Parker and suddenly he is sweet and doing this stuff and gives her a party and she is his girlfriend before all of his friends, because he didn't even acknowledge Veronica in front of what she assumes are his friends. Was she his girlfriend during this period? No, not to any of his contacts. Sweet relationship. Yes, they care about each other but really?

Piz included her in his life, they studied and she went to concerts and learned new things, they studied together and she was allowed to show herself as tentative about sex, which she didn't dare with Logan.

It's okay to have different interests.  And contrary to some people's beliefs, there is nothing wrong with partying and having a good time, especially while young and in college.  Veronica doesn't care so much for the parties because of what happened to her at Shelly's party. This doesn't mean that Logan shouldn't be allowed to still get his party on if he wants, all the while being understanding of Veronica and still doing things she likes as well.  He went on that terrible bowling double date with her, Parker, and Piz.  

Are you trying to say Logan should pay her way through life? Bc honestly, I think he gladly would have, but he knew Veronica would have hated that. He truly knew who she was and that she wouldn't want a hand out from anyone.

When Logan did the party thing for Parker, I'll admit even I was like "Really? You never did this for Veronica?" But, then I realized it went back to the fact that Logan had a fundamental understanding of Veronica, and he knew she wouldn't want some flashy party dedicated to her. Instead for her birthday he gave her a key to his apartment which was way more intimate, sweet, and loving. He was basically saying "here. welcome to my world any time."  

 

I still feel like Piz would have just conformed into anything Veronica wanted him to be. He liked what she represented more than who she was. Logan loved Veronica for exactly who she was.  I think Veronica loved Logan too. She was just afraid to let him get too close, because of all the times she was burned by other people in her life.

[marshmallows]

On 4/21/2017 at 10:44 PM, Affogato said:

Oddly, no. Veronica loses her innocence when she confronts Lamb. She has been taught to trust the law and the sheriff's office. Then she realizes she can;t go to her dad for help because he'll attack Lamb and get sent to Jail. She loses faith in the system. This is her defining moment. And she is changed profoundly but not tragically.

Her mother turns out to be a red herring. She finds Mom. She sacrifices by paying for rehab. She takes her back. She is burned. She lets her go. Later she is able to accept her presence for a case and later for Hunter. Mom is not a tragedy, Mom is handled in a completely healthy and confrontative way. So is Lilly. Lilly's murder is solved. She thinks about Lilly, finds a soft, vaseline edged place for her in her memories, lets her go. These aren't traumas, these are sad things that are handled beautifully by a strong woman.

Buffy is in relationships but it never really changes her quest, her search for herself. Veronica, not really, either. Veronicas relationships, including Logan, were always her attempts to reject her destiny, so to speak. Never the destiny.  Trust me, her life would have been fine without Logan but she needed to work for Justice, that was the loss she felt.

The rape definitely played a huge role in defining who Veronica became, but her mother and Lilly were still very important factors that played into her changing from a naive girl to a strong woman.  

If you read the books, I don't think there was closure with her mother. She still feels abandoned and hurt.  She has learned to let it go, but it doesn't change the fact that her mother left her in one of the most important and difficult times of her life. So, yes that is still a tragedy.

Sure, Lilly's murder is solved, but it doesn't change the fact that her bestfriend was brutally murdered and she had to witness the after math of what she looked like lying there dead.  Her death led to her father losing his job, his mother leaving, her becoming an outcast, etc.. Regardless of if it was solved or not, she still lost her bestfriend.  

I feel like between Buffy and Veronica, if one of them ever let a man let them lose sight of their mission, it was Buffy. Buffy longed for normalcy and wanted something more for her life than being slayer. Veronica clearly states to Logan "You know who I am, you know what I do and it isn't going to change and if you can't accept that..." She never really lost sight of who she was and her mission until she left Neptune for Stanford and then Columbia. I think it had all become to much for her at that point and she ran away from what and who she loved which was PI work and Logan. 

[Affogato]

On ‎4‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 8:22 PM, marshmallows said:

 

I feel like between Buffy and Veronica, if one of them ever let a man let them lose sight of their mission, it was Buffy. Buffy longed for normalcy and wanted something more for her life than being slayer. Veronica clearly states to Logan "You know who I am, you know what I do and it isn't going to change and if you can't accept that..." She never really lost sight of who she was and her mission until she left Neptune for Stanford and then Columbia. I think it had all become to much for her at that point and she ran away from what and who she loved which was PI work and Logan. 

 

The point of Buffy is she is a stereotypical girl/woman. The point of Veronica is that she is a stereotypical boy/man in a  female body. They both have things to say about how we see women in society. Different things, though, in spite of their superficial similarities. 

Both end on exactly the same note, though.  No running, a clear move into the future and I think we are given to believe it is a future that involves love and heroism.

Now, the movie, paid for by fans, did Veronica no kindnesses. Returning to Neptune and staying to be a PI when on the verge of finishing school to start a new life (which didn't necessarily have to be corporate law) is the only time she runs for real in the entire saga. 

[marshmallows]

On 5/6/2017 at 10:46 AM, Affogato said:

 

The point of Buffy is she is a stereotypical girl/woman. The point of Veronica is that she is a stereotypical boy/man in a  female body. They both have things to say about how we see women in society. Different things, though, in spite of their superficial similarities. 

Both end on exactly the same note, though.  No running, a clear move into the future and I think we are given to believe it is a future that involves love and heroism.

Now, the movie, paid for by fans, did Veronica no kindnesses. Returning to Neptune and staying to be a PI when on the verge of finishing school to start a new life (which didn't necessarily have to be corporate law) is the only time she runs for real in the entire saga. 

I guess everyone sees things differently.  Because I viewed it as Veronica was running away from who she really was, what she loved, and who she loved out of fear of being hurt. Once she came back to Neptune to help Logan she realized how much she enjoyed being a PI and how much she had missed Logan. That law and Piz just wasn't right for her. It was this life she wanted to want, the easy normal guy with the secure lower risk job, but the thing is it wasn't what she actually wanted, she had just tried to make herself believe that she did.  

I didn't contribute to the movie, but since it was funded by fans, it would be pretty crappy to not give them a satisfying ending. I don't think movies or shows should veer away from their main story that they wanted for fans in the typical case, but when fan funded yeah you probably should give them what they want.  Also, Rob Thomas's plan was always to have a Logan/Veronica ending, so really it wasn't even fan service.

[Affogato]

Of course the movie was funded by fans and it is the only Veronica Mars episode/book that is structured like a romance, and the fans wanted it and deserved it, since they funded the movie.  Um, still, it gives the fans a representative in the form of Ruby Jetson, which could be called a pretty heavy handed dig (logan's shudder when he walks away from the hug is priceless). also worth noting that Thomas has said several times that a miniseries, if it happens, will not be fan funded. I don't believe Marti Noxon is sorry about season six of Buffy and I think Logan and Veronica ending up together is forced, but I'm a cynic (and season six is my favorite, everything comes due).

I saw the movie before I had seen/read anything about Veronica Mars at all,  except whatever decided me not to watch it in the first place (already watching too much television, no supernatural element). I was taken to it by someone who also had never watched any of Veronica Mars either, because they had seen an article somewhere.  In retrospect we understood it fairly well, the punch to Madison, Dick having some history that explained Logan being with him, the dynamic that made Logan want to prove to Veronica that he had turned his life around, Keith and Veronica's relationship, all came through.  We didn't get a lot of romantic attraction, though,  and I know both actors can seem to have real chemistry with a variety of people (the moment in the Good Place when Eleanor looks at Chidi as a romantic interest; in supernatural season 7 when Dohring, playing the totally evil but in love time traveling God). Watching it again, I think Logan doesn't even think she would be interested in him until she jumps him, and probably just thinks she is distracting herself, and Veronica seems to be using the situation to reevaluate her life.

I just tend to think it was never really a story in the romance genre, although she had romantic interests, and the movie was an anomaly that ended up proving the point, since the actual point where they become a real couple is two separate moments in MKAT, Veronica's commitment is while Logan isn't even on the continent. The decisions were never made for reasons of romance.

Anyway, enough from me. I respect your opinion and it is clearly my problem that I came into this fandom late and like Veronica a lot more than I like Logan.

[Tachi Rocinante]

Logan is an insufferable douche and his redemption arc in the movie was a complete disservice to the character of Veronica.  Period.  I don't care if the Marshmallows think he's dreamy and only Veronica can fix him.  Because twuu luurve.

When I gave to the kickstarter I wanted a complex, intelligent story that made the show a pleasure to watch, and most of it was, except for the relationship angle.  For that I got bullshit middle-school fanwanking.

[alexvillage]

On 3/4/2018 at 10:32 AM, Tachi Rocinante said:

Logan is an insufferable douche and his redemption arc in the movie was a complete disservice to the character of Veronica.  Period.  I don't care if the Marshmallows think he's dreamy and only Veronica can fix him.  Because twuu luurve.

I agree with you. I also don't agree that Piz never understood Veronica. We could speculate about that but in the 9 -10 years in between, with the two of them together for all this time, it is hard to believe that Piz still didn't understand Veronica, or that their relationship would have lasted for such a long time if they had not grown together as a couple.

I wasn't part of the push to have a movie made, but it does feel like the fans wanted Veronica and Logan together and the story was just to justify that. 

[marshmallows]

9 hours ago, alexvillage said:

I agree with you. I also don't agree that Piz never understood Veronica. We could speculate about that but in the 9 -10 years in between, with the two of them together for all this time, it is hard to believe that Piz still didn't understand Veronica, or that their relationship would have lasted for such a long time if they had not grown together as a couple.

I wasn't part of the push to have a movie made, but it does feel like the fans wanted Veronica and Logan together and the story was just to justify that. 

Piz and Veronica were together for like a year. They broke up after s3 and they reunited much later in life. It was stated in the movie. I'm not sure why so many fans think they were together for 10 years.

[alexvillage]

On 8/19/2019 at 4:19 PM, marshmallows said:

Piz and Veronica were together for like a year. They broke up after s3 and they reunited much later in life. It was stated in the movie. I'm not sure why so many fans think they were together for 10 years.

Thanks for setting me straight. I wasn't paying attention, I guess. To be fair to me, I'm not really a fan I just watched all the seasons and the movie because I thought it was good entertainment and I like Rico Colantoni a lot.  

I still like Veronica with Piz more than I like her with Logan. Still prefer her romantically solo.

[marshmallows]

On 8/20/2019 at 4:34 PM, alexvillage said:

Thanks for setting me straight. I wasn't paying attention, I guess. To be fair to me, I'm not really a fan I just watched all the seasons and the movie because I thought it was good entertainment and I like Rico Colantoni a lot.  

I still like Veronica with Piz more than I like her with Logan. Still prefer her romantically solo.

Oh yeah definitely ship who you like! I'm a hardcore LoVe shipper.

Hope I didn't come off rude. A lot of fans even die hard ones think Piz and Veronica were together for like 9 years lol. It's a common mistake. 

[jiminycrispies]

I just finished season 4 on Hulu and my unpopular opinion is that I thought the season was pretty good. Much better than season 3. I wanted more Wallace and Weevil but I think that the loss of Logan was not a bad thing and a pretty good thing. I have always thought that the relationship between Logan and Veronica should have ended in season 2 and so the season 4 ending made me interested in the future of the show...if we ever get a season 5.

[tea.rex]

On 9/30/2019 at 8:11 AM, jiminycrispies said:

I just finished season 4 on Hulu and my unpopular opinion is that I thought the season was pretty good.

Agreed!  Took a rewatch of the entire series, and some time to process my grief and anger (I love LoVe), but season 4 is really well done.  I hope there is a 5.  

The unpopular opinion, however, that led me to this thread, is that I can’t stand Leo D’Amato.  The 20 year old sheriff’s deputy dating a 17 year old high school student is glaringly gross, but it’s his smarmy voice that is truly cringy.  I’ll never get over it.  He’s much better in the later seasons, especially season 4, but damage was done in s1 that will never heal.  Disclaimer: having watched new girl in its entirely several times before I saw Veronica Mars may have something to do with it.  Schmidt is one of the funniest tv characters ever!  

3.  One more, and I doubt that this opinion is unpopular, but Aaron Echols gets shot and it never gets investigated or mentioned, like, ever?  In terms of the show I’m glad they didn’t go into it, but still.  

4.  For real last one, not sure if this is unpopular, but I came to like Clarence Whedon.  Would have like to see more of “good” CW.  Loved him and Veronica teaming up in Rat Saw God.  

[Affogato]

22 hours ago, tea.rex said:

Agreed!  Took a rewatch of the entire series, and some time to process my grief and anger (I love LoVe), but season 4 is really well done.  I hope there is a 5.  

The unpopular opinion, however, that led me to this thread, is that I can’t stand Leo D’Amato.  The 20 year old sheriff’s deputy dating a 17 year old high school student is glaringly gross, but it’s his smarmy voice that is truly cringy.  I’ll never get over it.  He’s much better in the later seasons, especially season 4, but damage was done in s1 that will never heal.  Disclaimer: having watched new girl in its entirely several times before I saw Veronica Mars may have something to do with it.  Schmidt is one of the funniest tv 

I think Leo shouldn't have been dragged into this season at all. Veronica should have run into someone who didn't, like Logan, cringe whenever she started to talk (he does this a lot) or only take her to Dick events. It could have been an fbi agent. She could have enjoyed his company more than she was enjoying Logan and maybe have some sexual feelings for him. I just think it shouldn't have been Leo (especially after playing the same emotional harp in one of the books).  

Edited December 16, 2019 by Affogato

[Ailianna]

On 12/15/2019 at 11:37 AM, tea.rex said:

4.  For real last one, not sure if this is unpopular, but I came to like Clarence Whedon.  Would have like to see more of “good” CW.  Loved him and Veronica teaming up in Rat Saw God.  

Not unpopular with me, although I respect Wedon more than I like him.  As in, I'd love to see him work cases, but I have no desire or interest in seeing his personal life, finding out he keeps goldfish, or anything like that.

[ColeeL]

** I have not watched the third season because I heard it was horrible so this is limited to first and second

1.  I really really liked Duncan. Obviously he had his flaws but he was DRUGGED while he had sex with Veronica. I think they had good chemistry and in real life I would prefer his character to Logan's. He was rude and distant at times but then again, he has a mental illness + he thought VM was his sister. Honestly all the fan hate made me sad because it was the reason Teddy Dunn was written off the show. If he had stayed, he and VM would have been end game.

2. VM literally USED Wallace so many times for favours I'm glad this was brought up a few times.

3. Speaking of the point above, LEO! VM's police boyfriend. She USED him so many times for tapes/information/other favours, cheated on him with logan, and then dumped him. He litearlly took all of it. He's such a sweetheart and he was the BEST guy to VM out of all her boyfriends. He deserved so much more.

4. I despise Jackie. Maybe it's because I know too many girls like her in real life, why her character just hits especially close to home.

5. Mac is meh for me

6. I liked Troy and Caitlin - wish they had stayed longer

7. Keith and Veronica's relationship was creepy at times. There were soo many times I wasn't sure if he had kissed her on the lips or on the cheeks. They were just too close.

8. Sometimes Keith and VM were too nice for my taste. Personally, I would not chase someone's tenant out of their house after they straight up told me that they didn't want to associate with me. I would also not spend so much time helping people I don't really know who didn't pay me/who backstabbed me later.

 

[marshmallows]

On 4/11/2020 at 1:51 AM, ColeeL said:

2. VM literally USED Wallace so many times for favours I'm glad this was brought up a few times.

4. I despise Jackie. Maybe it's because I know too many girls like her in real life, why her character just hits especially close to home.

5. Mac is meh for me

7. Keith and Veronica's relationship was creepy at times. There were soo many times I wasn't sure if he had kissed her on the lips or on the cheeks. They were just too close.

8. Sometimes Keith and VM were too nice for my taste. Personally, I would not chase someone's tenant out of their house after they straight up told me that they didn't want to associate with me. I would also not spend so much time helping people I don't really know who didn't pay me/who backstabbed me later.

 

2- Absolutely! But I think a lot of people feel this way. So you are not a lone.

4- I think most fans despise Jackie. I actually liked her which is probably an unpopular opinion lol. She's fun for me to watch. I would probably dislike her IRL.

5- UGH Thank you!!! Idk why everyone loves Mac so much. I have never gotten it. She was meh the entire time and was given way too much screen time in s3 to be as meh as she was. But s3 was basically the season of let's let all the meh characters take up way too much screen time. I'm looking at you Piz, Parker, and Mac, oh and Mac's weird bf Max.

7- I always go back and forth on this one. Her mom left, so all she had was her dad. They are really close. I just doubt anyone would find their relationship creepy if Veronica was a man or this same relationship was with Veronica and her mother.

8- I think Veronica charged most of the time. The only time we see her not really take payment is when she does something for Wallace, obviously the Lily Kane case, and Logan in s1 where she rips of the check he gave her. I think she had full intentions of taking Logan's money when she worked his mother's case, but she saw how devastated he was and that there were other sides to him besides obligatory jackass so she decided to show him some kindness. I mean I woulda took the money. Dude is rich, regardless if he is sad lol.

[blondiec0332]

On 4/11/2020 at 1:51 AM, ColeeL said:

1.  I really really liked Duncan. Obviously he had his flaws but he was DRUGGED while he had sex with Veronica. I think they had good chemistry and in real life I would prefer his character to Logan's. He was rude and distant at times but then again, he has a mental illness + he thought VM was his sister. Honestly all the fan hate made me sad because it was the reason Teddy Dunn was written off the show. If he had stayed, he and VM would have been end game.

I liked Duncan as well.  And I say that as a Logan fan. The whole Duncan/Logan thing was like Dylan/Brandon from BH90210.  When I was watched it originally in the 90s I was a Dylan fan but as I got older I became a Brandon fan.  I used to say Dylan was the one you fucked and Brandon was the one you married.  With Duncan and Logan I kinda feel the same way. Logan I think was meant to be Veronica's bad boy phase and then she would settle down with Duncan.  But seeing how Rob Thomas thinks Logan would have stifled Veronica I guess there is no way Duncan would have been enough to keep Veronica from being bored.

[Affogato]

On 5/5/2020 at 1:16 PM, blondiec0332 said:

I liked Duncan as well.  And I say that as a Logan fan. The whole Duncan/Logan thing was like Dylan/Brandon from BH90210.  When I was watched it originally in the 90s I was a Dylan fan but as I got older I became a Brandon fan.  I used to say Dylan was the one you fucked and Brandon was the one you married.  With Duncan and Logan I kinda feel the same way. Logan I think was meant to be Veronica's bad boy phase and then she would settle down with Duncan.  But seeing how Rob Thomas thinks Logan would have stifled Veronica I guess there is no way Duncan would have been enough to keep Veronica from being bored.

I doubt Logan was ever an exciting boyfriend. He always seemed to be their for sex, and to get help (find Mom, why is money leaking out of my trust fund, I'm accused of murder again), otherwise doing any recreational activities with Dick and similar buddies, and presumably later with the Navy guys, too. I doubt he'd spent as much as a year with Veronica since the end of the movie and books. Deployment, training, dropping in unexpectedly. I mean, he probably came back for spring break to see Dick, right, more communication with the bro than Veronica? He didn't share his life with Veronica and was manifestly barely able to stand listening to her tedious and disagreeable complaints about Neptune and cringed whenever she asked anything of him. I mean therapy, realistically, would have only made them aware of how much contempt he had for her at this point and how little hope their relationship had of succeeding. I think she knew it, too, which is why she rejected the idea of therapy.

I mean both of them were doing the best they could, and Logan was trying to force the life he had always wanted, but there wasn't any soulmate between them. In canon.

Veronica probably would have been happier to have someone who spent time with her and might even help raise the kids. Duncan could have been that, but potentially Piz would have worked. Or someone totally different.

 

[EyewatchTV211]

On 5/5/2020 at 1:16 PM, blondiec0332 said:

I liked Duncan as well.  And I say that as a Logan fan. The whole Duncan/Logan thing was like Dylan/Brandon from BH90210.  When I was watched it originally in the 90s I was a Dylan fan but as I got older I became a Brandon fan.  I used to say Dylan was the one you fucked and Brandon was the one you married.  With Duncan and Logan I kinda feel the same way. Logan I think was meant to be Veronica's bad boy phase and then she would settle down with Duncan.  But seeing how Rob Thomas thinks Logan would have stifled Veronica I guess there is no way Duncan would have been enough to keep Veronica from being bored.

I am a Logan fan also, although I didn't dislike any of the guys. But considering Rob Thomas's more recent comments and clues/comments from early on, maybe the plan was always to have her end up alone. Logan only became what he did because of the actor chemistry and obvious fan support. And didn't Rob say that initially, when he was hoping the show would be on HBO, the plan was for Duncan and Veronica to actually end up being siblings? He changed it when they didn't end up on HBO, obviously. 

[topanga]

4 hours ago, EyewatchTV211 said:

I am a Logan fan also, although I didn't dislike any of the guys. But considering Rob Thomas's more recent comments and clues/comments from early on, maybe the plan was always to have her end up alone. Logan only became what he did because of the actor chemistry and obvious fan support. And didn't Rob say that initially, when he was hoping the show would be on HBO, the plan was for Duncan and Veronica to actually end up being siblings? He changed it when they didn't end up on HBO, obviously. 

Thank god this wasn't on HBO. I will admit I found "Flowers in the Attic" titillating when I read it, but I was what, eleven? Bleh!

On 5/27/2020 at 10:18 AM, Affogato said:

I doubt Logan was ever an exciting boyfriend. He always seemed to be their for sex, and to get help (find Mom, why is money leaking out of my trust fund, I'm accused of murder again), otherwise doing any recreational activities with Dick and similar buddies, and presumably later with the Navy guys, too. I doubt he'd spent as much as a year with Veronica since the end of the movie and books. Deployment, training, dropping in unexpectedly. I mean, he probably came back for spring break to see Dick, right, more communication with the bro than Veronica? He didn't share his life with Veronica and was manifestly barely able to stand listening to her tedious and disagreeable complaints about Neptune and cringed whenever she asked anything of him. I mean therapy, realistically, would have only made them aware of how much contempt he had for her at this point and how little hope their relationship had of succeeding. I think she knew it, too, which is why she rejected the idea of therapy.

I mean both of them were doing the best they could, and Logan was trying to force the life he had always wanted, but there wasn't any soulmate between them. In canon.

Veronica probably would have been happier to have someone who spent time with her and might even help raise the kids. Duncan could have been that, but potentially Piz would have worked. Or someone totally different.

 

Logan was very mopey throughout Season 4. I couldn't figure out if he was depressed, suffering from PTSD, or was angry/dissatisfied with Veronica but didn't know how to express it.  That third choice is a stretch--Logan was always able to express how he felt, even if the truth was heavily cloaked with sarcastic humor.

Yes, their relationship made me yawn. But Veronica's interactions with Leo? Hot! It made me almost regret shipping LoVe back in the day. 

[Affogato]

On 7/8/2020 at 5:03 PM, topanga said:

Thank god this wasn't on HBO. I will admit I found "Flowers in the Attic" titillating when I read it, but I was what, eleven? Bleh!

Logan was very mopey throughout Season 4. I couldn't figure out if he was depressed, suffering from PTSD, or was angry/dissatisfied with Veronica but didn't know how to express it.  That third choice is a stretch--Logan was always able to express how he felt, even if the truth was heavily cloaked with sarcastic humor.

Yes, their relationship made me yawn. But Veronica's interactions with Leo? Hot! It made me almost regret shipping LoVe back in the day. 

I think he was angry and dissatisfied and deliberately fighting to suppress it. This made him emotionally unavailable and was one of the things that made Veronica goad him. Yah but really he should have found a new person instead of Leo. I think reusing actors and plots is a thing RT should mitigate. Veronica being so pathetically grateful to have fun with a guy she Runs into at work Underlines how lonely she actually is. Her attraction to Leo can be taken differently. 

[topanga]

12 hours ago, Affogato said:

I think he was angry and dissatisfied and deliberately fighting to suppress it. This made him emotionally unavailable and was one of the things that made Veronica goad him. Yah but really he should have found a new person instead of Leo. I think reusing actors and plots is a thing RT should mitigate. Veronica being so pathetically grateful to have fun with a guy she Runs into at work Underlines how lonely she actually is. Her attraction to Leo can be taken differently.

You think she was fantasizing/ dreaming about Leo just because he was a guy at work? I thought she was ruminating over what might have been. 

[Affogato]

On 7/14/2020 at 9:17 PM, topanga said:

You think she was fantasizing/ dreaming about Leo just because he was a guy at work? I thought she was ruminating over what might have been. 

In the book she was Ruminating over what might have been. Trying on different options. Yes she could have a relationship with Leo and yes she could be a cop. But that wasn’t her decision and she shut it down. 
 

 In season 4 i think her dream self was telling her she wanted something she wasn’t getting from Logan. And she chooses not to listen to her inner voice.  It didn’t have to be Leo. 

[AnimeMania]

We should probably have a thread about the cases that span multiple episodes like Lily Kane's and the rapes and murder that happened on the College Campus. They seemed to be written more to add weird twists and turns rather than having the evidence presented match what actually happened. Especially the murder that happened on the College Campus (I am not sure the evidence even made sense by the time they added the extra shock value complexity). 

[Hiyo]

My UO: I liked and enjoyed season 3. 

[Delphi]

Doing a rewatch,  including revival.  Leo should have been end game.   My sister and I were talking about how how everyone deserves a Patrick (shitts creek) and she asked me to name another perfect tv boyfriend,  Leo is the only one I could think of. 

Edited September 28, 2020 by Delphi

[DrSpaceman73]

I hate veronica and Logan together.  So much so it ruins part of the show for me

Ok so it turned out he didn't kill lilly or rape veronica or kill whoever on the bridge.  He still is a smug, entitled rich douche who does nothing ever to disprove those traits.  He and veronica together I found disgusting from day one.  They had little in common other than dead people (mom's and girlfriend) and a friend who moved away to mexico

[DrSpaceman73]

Watching more of season 3 veronica mars, .........Logan and Veronica are just horrible for and to each other.  And its not all on Logan.  Veronica doesn't seem to want him to be with anyone besides her, but then also doesn't like being with him because she doesn't trust him.  Make up your mind. 

[Affogato]

On 10/2/2020 at 9:00 AM, DrSpaceman73 said:

Watching more of season 3 veronica mars, .........Logan and Veronica are just horrible for and to each other.  And its not all on Logan.  Veronica doesn't seem to want him to be with anyone besides her, but then also doesn't like being with him because she doesn't trust him.  Make up your mind. 

I think Veronica’s codependence keeps her in most situations too long. She wants to fix him. His separation anxiety means he can’t let her go. He can’t lose her. Even when they break up they still go through it. Dysfunctional. 

[Harvoire]

Warning - Spoilers for all seasons and movie throughout comment - FYI

Season 4  - UO:

I did not like Veronica's character arc at all - was RT making her deliberately unlikeable?

Reason being - in the movie it notes she has a psych degree. She even analyzes herself during her interview w/ the law firm. Yet in season 4 she openly mocks on more than one occasion Logan being in therapy and asks if he's on medication because he's acting like a "pod person."  Not only that, but she indulges in recreational drug use when Logan had a history with addiction issues. That recreational drug use put her in a potentially compromising position with someone with whom she had a romantic history. She continues to display a resistance to open communication, and has developed zero self-awareness (this is noticeable when Logan mentions that her turn-ons include violence). She also treats her longtime friend dismissively and trivializes his life. 

I am/was a LOVE shipper. However, I would have been fine with Logan stepping away from / ending his relationship with Veronica and not having a story arc that continued their on again off again dynamic (he gracefully could have been written off the show without devastating a loyal fanbase). I also would have been fine with them navigating the relationship challenges inherent to both of their lines of work and future issues like whether to have kids or not. But those could have taken a back seat to the main storyline of her career. Logan didn't need to be written out entirely to advance/change the direction of the show. You can have a show that gives a measure of happiness to it's characters without it being a "happy ever after" or spelling the demise of a show. 

On a seperate note - season 4 left Dick flapping in the breeze! His brother is revealed to be a rapist and murderer in Season 2 and commits suicide. The show never delves too deeply into what the ramifications of those events meant on a personal level to Dick - but one could imagine there was some significant blowback to him from peers and tabloids etc. Season 4 sees his father murdered and the cherry on that cake is that his one and only confidante and for all intents and purposes brother is killed (referring to Logan). And then someone who could have provided a modicum of support to him (though their relationship was tenuous at best) leaves town (Veronica). Dick deserved better (regardless of how you feel his character acted in previous seasons).

Ultimately I feel like RT and possibly KB grew resentful of possibly feeling like they had to pander to the VM fanbase. Which isn't invalid. However I think there could have been a better way to advance the plot and tone of the show without alienating a significant portion of the fanbase while still engaging a new audience. It came across as lazy. And outside of that, I thought the "mystery" itself was a bit bland and the Mexican Cartel angle was redundant. 

Thanks for coming to my TED Talk. 😉

 

 

 

[Affogato]

On 3/8/2021 at 10:44 PM, Harvoire said:

Warning - Spoilers for all seasons and movie throughout comment - FYI

Season 4  - UO:

I did not like Veronica's character arc at all - was RT making her deliberately unlikeable?

Reason being - in the movie it notes she has a psych degree. She even analyzes herself during her interview w/ the law firm. Yet in season 4 she openly mocks on more than one occasion Logan being in therapy and asks if he's on medication because he's acting like a "pod person."  Not only that, but she indulges in recreational drug use when Logan had a history with addiction issues. That recreational drug use put her in a potentially compromising position with someone with whom she had a romantic history. She continues to display a resistance to open communication, and has developed zero self-awareness (this is noticeable when Logan mentions that her turn-ons include violence). She also treats her longtime friend dismissively and trivializes his life. 

I am/was a LOVE shipper. However, I would have been fine with Logan stepping away from / ending his relationship with Veronica and not having a story arc that continued their on again off again dynamic (he gracefully could have been written off the show without devastating a loyal fanbase). I also would have been fine with them navigating the relationship challenges inherent to both of their lines of work and future issues like whether to have kids or not. But those could have taken a back seat to the main storyline of her career. Logan didn't need to be written out entirely to advance/change the direction of the show. You can have a show that gives a measure of happiness to it's characters without it being a "happy ever after" or spelling the demise of a show. 

On a seperate note - season 4 left Dick flapping in the breeze! His brother is revealed to be a rapist and murderer in Season 2 and commits suicide. The show never delves too deeply into what the ramifications of those events meant on a personal level to Dick - but one could imagine there was some significant blowback to him from peers and tabloids etc. Season 4 sees his father murdered and the cherry on that cake is that his one and only confidante and for all intents and purposes brother is killed (referring to Logan). And then someone who could have provided a modicum of support to him (though their relationship was tenuous at best) leaves town (Veronica). Dick deserved better (regardless of how you feel his character acted in previous seasons).

Ultimately I feel like RT and possibly KB grew resentful of possibly feeling like they had to pander to the VM fanbase. Which isn't invalid. However I think there could have been a better way to advance the plot and tone of the show without alienating a significant portion of the fanbase while still engaging a new audience. It came across as lazy. And outside of that, I thought the "mystery" itself was a bit bland and the Mexican Cartel angle was redundant. 

Thanks for coming to my TED Talk. 😉

 

 

 

However, don’t  forget forget season 4 takes place a year after the bombing. Logan has been dead a year and Veronica has idealized him and is deep in self hate and recrimination. She hates herself, so we hate her. I also expect it isn’t a linear story she tells, that some elements happen after the bombing—maybe her guilt at having a sex dream about Leo, for example. Maybe even the subsequent fantasy about marrying Logan is her telling Jane what should have happened. The drug use also could have been grief and guilt related. She drank and did some stupid things in the past year and pulled out of it. Her telling the story of Weevil also shows self awareness. And violence is a turn on, but also for Logan. Logan’s job presumably fills that need for him. Veronica’s isn’t—hence her jumping the fence to sneak into the woman’s house. Added danger for no reason. 
 

dick is shown as having no personal growth, he continues to be rapey and inconsiderate. Probably because he has been drunk or on drugs, allowing him to avoid  maturity. Logan is kind of okay with this. Make of that what you will.

 

i think the cartel stuff was Verinica investigating post Logan’s death so Dick will know why his father was killed. So she didn’t abandon him. 
 

My belief is That Logan wants to tell Veronica the life he envisions for them and us afraid she will reject it, so he wants to do it in a safe space with his therapist. Not for her, Veronca’s,  good. He isn’t pushing therapy for her with a separate therapist.  And veronica rejects it because she knows she doesn’t want that life and it will force he to either break up with him or become one of the women that populate Wallaces parties.  Because that is clearly what he is pushing. House in Neptune, kids, him gone most of the time. Oddly like the setup Aaron had, make of that what you will. 
 

season 5 would have probably given us perspective. 
 

also there is no time when Logan and Veronica are actually compatible in the entire freaking series, just times when Veronica wants it to work. Logan needs a Hannah or Parker, Veronica needs someone who will not ... nevermind. 
 

If Logan lived? Season 4 turns out to have him married to someone else? Maybe you could have found that out at the end? It is, as the writers said, difficult. 
 

yeah the mysteries in the show generally sucked. 

Edited March 14, 2021 by Affogato

[Kel Varnsen]

On 12/15/2019 at 11:37 AM, tea.rex said:

One more, and I doubt that this opinion is unpopular, but Aaron Echols gets shot and it never gets investigated or mentioned, like, ever?  In terms of the show I’m glad they didn’t go into it, but still.  

I honestly don't know why they didn't just put Aaron in prison. I mean I get how there was enough reasonable doubt for a super judgemental jury to let him off for everything related to Lily. But how the hell does he get away with the attempted murder of Veronica? It could have easily been acquitted of the murder and statutory rape but still have him go to jail for attempted murder. That would still cause Veronica the same kind of stress.

 

48 minutes ago, Affogato said:

However, don’t  forget forget season 4 takes place a year after the bombing. Logan has been dead a year and Veronica has idealized him and is deep in self hate and recrimination. She hates herself, so we hate her.

Wait a second, it has been awhile since I saw it, but Logan gets killed in the S4 finale. Or is this just what you imagine to make the season better? 

As for season 4 I thought it was ok, although I hate how if you change the bomber to a ghost it becomes a Scooby Doo episode about an evil real estate developer.

[Affogato]

2 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

 

 

Wait a second, it has been awhile since I saw it, but Logan gets killed in the S4 finale. Or is this just what you imagine to make the season better? 

As for season 4 I thought it was ok, although I hate how if you change the bomber to a ghost it becomes a Scooby Doo episode about an evil real estate developer.

Season 4 is Veronica talking to Jane a year later. It becomes real time when we see her drive to the therapist. This is her trying to put the story behind her. Look back to the beginnings ng. “If I knew then what i knew now. “ she would have walked away from the case. 
 

there are clues peppered in the story if you think about it. Many are the inconsistencies people complain about. How exaggerated veronica’s flaws are.  Pony doesn’t respond to Logan in the memories. Less chemistry. Less depth to Logan. She remembers some things as exaggerated, him waving the baby (in memory Veronica is giving up on the idea of ever having children). No funeral. The whole show is her mourning.  His plot is romanticized and clearly told from others viewpoints. Vinny cough. Riley. People don’t speak ill of the dead. But the show also tells us that is what is happening at the end. Veronica tells us. 
 

Not to menton that VM always goes against expectations. Season 2/3 aren’t bad. They deliberately deconstruct season 1. Logan and Veronica break up. No one steps in to save logan, certainly not Keith. Noone saves Veronica, keith tries a little. 
 

Season 4 is a deconstruction of the movie. No young adult romance here . real problems that were not resolved. Two people that needed different things. Moving along  

i guess season 4 is half a season. We just learn at the end why Veronica is so horrible, that Logan is dead  the season 5 would have show to what extent she will move on.

 

Edited March 14, 2021 by Affogato

[bettername2come]

On 7/21/2020 at 4:06 PM, Hiyo said:

My UO: I liked and enjoyed season 3. 

One thing I loved about season 3 (and I guess season 4 for confirming it) is that the criminals are actually brought to justice through the court system. There’s no getting off scot free followed by vigilante justice. No convenient suicide. The murderers and rapists just go to prison and stay.