Batwoman Spoilers and Speculation

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, Delphi said:

That's what I was referring to,  yeah,  of course since this Stephanie is a red head maybe she's Oracle. 

The Arrowverse likes to be "kewl" so I wouldnt put it past them putting someone else in the Oracle role.

[Trini]

I doubt this show is following Arrow continuity for a character that has never appeared. They might change who is Oracle (I doubt it, though), but I don't see how Stephanie/Spoiler being a redhead means Barbara doesn't exist.

[Trini]

Looks like next week is the network mandated BLM episode? The two Black writers*  are credited for that episode, so that's encouraging.

*(That I know of)

 

[scarynikki12]

Stephanie dropped a spoiler line so I think she’s bypassing Batgirl entirely. I don’t see any scenario where she’d be Oracle as I think they’d want to send her out in her Spoiler suit. The red hair is probably nothing more than an indication that she’ll be a sidekick on Team Batwoman. It could be a fun show thing for everyone in the field to have red hair/wigs. 

[Trini]

It looks like the actress is a redhead (whether natural or not) and they didn't feel the need to wig her out or make her bleach her hair for a guest spot. I don't think it's anything more than that. I'm not all that familiar with the character and her look in the comics, so it doesn't bother me.

[MarkHB]

Personally, I'd like to see Steph follow her path from the comics and not immediately sign up with Team Batwoman.  In the comics, she became Spoiler on her own, literally to spoil her father's schemes, and stayed independent for quite a while even though she... didn't quite have the level of training Bruce puts his team through. Once, when Batman told her to stop going out (because she was liable to get herself or someone else killed), she basically said "who died and made you King of the Vigilantes"? So I'd love to see her stay indy for a while.

And the purple hoodie she was wearing was a direct nod to her comics Spoiler costume, btw. :)

[Trini]

Some info on John Diggle's appearance on Batwoman:

https://tvline.com/2021/05/17/arrow-diggle-green-lantern-journey-david-ramsey-flash-legends-of-tomorrow/

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Ramsey’s spring/summer trip through the Arrowverse officially kicks off Tuesday, May 25, with the episode of Superman & Lois that he directed. As for his series of on-camera appearances, he first will be seen on the Sunday, June 13 episode of Batwoman.

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To your other point, which is exploring what has happened to Diggle since encountering that green box, that will be explored in the other episodes – on Batwoman, Flash, Superman & Lois, and Supergirl. Whatever was in the box, he refused the invitation of. Let’s put it like that. But there are consequences to that.

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TVLINE | Your first guest stop is on Batwoman. What takes Dig to Gotham, because best that I recall, he doesn’t know anybody there, right?

Headaches. Debilitating headaches. And he’s hearing voices. He goes to Gotham to get help with this, to see a physician there, and in the meantime, his A.R.G.U.S. story continues. His wife is still head of A.R.G.U.S. and he’s co-head, and that’s part of what he brings when he goes to these cities. He’s there to assist and help in whatever way he can with his access to A.R.G.U.S. That’s a very big part of who he is.

 

[legaleagle53]

22 minutes ago, Trini said:

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To your other point, which is exploring what has happened to Diggle since encountering that green box, that will be explored in the other episodes – on Batwoman, Flash, Superman & Lois, and Supergirl. Whatever was in the box, he refused the invitation of. Let’s put it like that. But there are consequences to that.

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Hmm. It sounds as though this is what's going to pass for the annual crossover this year.

[cambridgeguy]

Gotham is the last place I'd go to get help for voices in my head.  They don't really have a great track record of helping people with this sort of problem.

[Trini]

It's gonna be weird with Diggle showing up, since none of the current cast have interacted with or even met anyone else in the now combined universe. Unless they want to say that characters have met previously off-screen, or do a Crisis ret-con.

Ramsey mentioned Diggle's ARGUS job, so they'll probably connect him to Jacob/the Crows, or maybe even Luke since he's a Bat-sidekick. Most likely he's in town for whoever the villain-of-the-week is.

[Trini]

2.15 synopsis:

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"Armed and Dangerous" - (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET) (TV-14, LV) (HDTV)

IS THIS GOODBYE? - As Luke Fox's (Camrus Johnson) life hangs in the balance, repercussions from the devastating event are the catalyst for some life-changing decisions for those around him.

Also starring Javicia Leslie, Dougray Scott, Rachel Skarsten, Meagan Tandy and Nicole Kang.

Holly Dale directed the episode written by Nancy Kiu (#215). Original airdate 6/6/2021.

 

[Trini]

2.16 synopsis:

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"Rebirth" - (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET) (TV-14, V) (HDTV)

CAN'T LET IT GO - When a familiar foe descends upon Gotham, Batwoman (Javicia Leslie) and Mary (Nicole Kang) find they must rely on each other more than ever. Alice (Rachel Skarsten) has a has a new mission - and gets an unexpected ally to join her. Also starring Dougray Scott, Meagan Tandy and Camrus Johnson.

Michael Allowitz directed the episode written by Daniel Thomsen (#216). Original airdate 6/13/2021.

 

Vague.

[Trini]

Photos for 2.15 are out: https://batwoman.tv/season-2-promotional-armed-and-dangerous-galleries

There's an Ocean + Alice subplot, and Wolf Spider/Evan is back?

[BeautifulFlower]

It's not a surprise, but WOW

With what happened in 2x15 and the next episode promo, I thought becoming Batwing would be his season 3 storyline.

[Trini]

Beat me to it!

Batwing was coming eventually - I didnt think it would be so soon! But he's not going to be 'suited up' in the next episode, right? They probably could have waited a bit with this reveal.

In any case, Luke/Camrus looks great!

[BeautifulFlower]

Since they have a first promotional photo for him, I guess he is suiting up soon. However, I feel him becoming Batwing in these last 3 episodes is kinda rushed? I would've liked it for the first half of season 3.

[Trini]

From EW:

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In season 3, Batwing will become Batwoman's crime-fighting partner as they work together to clean up the mess created in the season 2 finale. "But before Luke Fox can fully embrace the awesome and powerful nature of his super-suit, he must first overcome his own personal demons," reads the official character description.

https://ew.com/tv/batwoman-luke-fox-batwing-first-look-photos/

[cambridgeguy]

I didn't know Luke had the fighting skills to join the costumed crime fighter club so soon but if his suit is going to be like the Iron Man armor then that won't be necessary.  Or he'll montage his way through a couple of training sequences and be good to go.

[Trini]

2.17 synopsis:

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"Kane, Kate" - (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET) (TV-PG, LV) (HDTV)

A VILLAINOUS PLOT - Batwoman (Javicia Leslie) struggles as Black Mask (guest star Peter Outerbridge) continues to raise the stakes with Circe (guest star Wallis Day) as his henchwoman.

Alice (Rachel Skarsten) and Safiyah (guest star Shivaani Ghai) cross paths once again.

Also starring Dougray Scott, Meagan Tandy, Nicole Kang and Camrus Johnson.

Carl Seaton directed the episode written by Chad Fiveash and James Stoteraux (#217). Original airdate 6/20/21.

 

Getting more vague as we go on.

Are they really going to wait until the last minute to restore Kate's memories? I really wonder if the showrunner is planning to have Kate as part of Season 3 - even if it's part time. Ryan has the Batwoman mantle now, so what would Kate's role be?

All this time I've been assuming that the show would assure us Kate is alive and (mostly) okay, then ship her off, but now I'm not so sure. Two episodes is a really short time to wrap up Kate's story; so I'm guessing it won't be really be wrapped up by the end of the season.

[Trini]

https://ew.com/tv/batwoman-david-ramsey-diggle-luke-batwing/

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After directing the seventh episode of Superman & Lois' first season, David Ramsey's CW homecoming continues Sunday on Batwoman, which will mark his first on-screen appearance as Arrow's Diggle since early 2020. However, this isn't a glorified cameo. Diggle's trip to Batwoman's besieged hometown will play a pivotal role in one of the second season's most important storylines.

"He comes into one of our characters' lives at a really instrumental period in their life, and gives some advice that changes the course of somebody's life completely," Batwoman showrunner Caroline Dries told EW in December 2020.

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"He really helps a major character take their next step into their own destiny of becoming a full-fledged superhero," Ramsey told EW in May, before Batwing's introduction was announced. "Diggle has always been the person who can really tap into the humanity of our major characters....

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From Dries' perspective, "it seemed like only somebody like Diggle would have that point of view, perspective, and wisdom" that Luke would need to take this major step toward putting on the cowl.

----

Also photos (mostly episode stills, it seems) for 2.16 are out: https://batwoman.tv/rebirth-gallery

[Trini]

2.18, season finale synopsis:

Quote

"Power" - (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET) (TV-14, LV) (HDTV)

SEASON FINALE - In the Batwoman season finale, Ryan Wilder (Javicia Leslie) questions her place as the city's hero as she, Luke Fox (Camrus Johnson), Mary Hamilton (Nicole Kang) and Sophie Moore (Meagan Tandy) must join forces when Black Mask (guest star Peter Outerbridge) instigates chaos in the Gotham streets.

Meanwhile, Alice's attempt to rescue her sister means another encounter with Circe (guest star Wallis Day). In an epic standoff, unexpected alliances and transformations will upend Gotham as we know it.

Holly Dale directed the episode written by Caroline Dries (#218). Original airdate 6/27/21.

----

So Kate is still Circe in the finale?

I'm thinking there's no way they hired Wallis Day to be Kate for one episode. I'm still thinking that Kate will be around in Season 3. That will be weird. And annoying because people are going to want her back in the Batsuit, and I don't think that's going to happen.

[rogvortex58]

Kate doesn’t have to leave her own home just because some random chick stole her suit. Gotham is still her city. Everyone she loves is still there.

I think anyone who expects her to leave at the end of this current season is just seeing what they want to see.

Edited June 12, 2021 by rogvortex58

[Primal Slayer]

4 hours ago, rogvortex58 said:

Kate doesn’t have to leave her own home just because some random chick stole her suit. Gotham is still her city. Everyone she loves is still there.

I think anyone who expects her to leave at the end of this current season is just seeing what they want to see.

I don't expect her to leave just yet but having Kate around and her not be Batwoman is a bit to awkward in the long run. 

I figured Luke would become Batwing at some point but....this seems a bit soon. It should've been held off for Season 3. The suit looks nice for the most part, more expensive than the Batwoman costume that's for sure. Though the helmet needs work, and give him a neck.

[Trini]

21 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

I don't expect her to leave just yet but having Kate around and her not be Batwoman is a bit to awkward in the long run. 

Agreed. I'm not sure what they can do with Kate; they can't have two Batwomen around - even if one is not in the suit. But like I said, to me it looks like she will be sticking around; in what capacity, is the question.

On the other hand, Kate has been MIA for most of the season, and the Batwoman mantle has been passed. It's not farfetched to think they'll write her out so that her story continues offscreen.

[Perfect Xero]

5 hours ago, Trini said:

Agreed. I'm not sure what they can do with Kate; they can't have two Batwomen around - even if one is not in the suit. But like I said, to me it looks like she will be sticking around; in what capacity, is the question.

On the other hand, Kate has been MIA for most of the season, and the Batwoman mantle has been passed. It's not farfetched to think they'll write her out so that her story continues offscreen.

Granted I haven't understood the reasoning behind a lot of the decisions they've made as a result of Ruby leaving the series, but I can't really see why they would go through the trouble of writing a recast of Kate into the story just to write her back out again.

[BeautifulFlower]

5 hours ago, Trini said:

Agreed. I'm not sure what they can do with Kate; they can't have two Batwomen around - even if one is not in the suit. But like I said, to me it looks like she will be sticking around; in what capacity, is the question.

On the other hand, Kate has been MIA for most of the season, and the Batwoman mantle has been passed. It's not farfetched to think they'll write her out so that her story continues offscreen.

I don't think she will become Batwoman again. I feel like she would look at being Batwoman caused to happen to her. She got disfigured and brainwashed. By being brainwashed, she most likely has done some things she has to live with. I can't see her wanting to be Batwoman again. If she is still on the show next year, I can her storyline mainly being with Jacob and Alice.

 

On 6/11/2021 at 7:14 PM, rogvortex58 said:

Kate doesn’t have to leave her own home just because some random chick stole her suit. Gotham is still her city. Everyone she loves is still there.

I think anyone who expects her to leave at the end of this current season is just seeing what they want to see.

Speaking of stuff stolen, the suit is not even Kate's. The batcave, car, weapons, aren't hers either.

After Ryan wore the suit the first time, she literally returned it. Luke and Mary allowed her to take up the mantle. Gotham needed a protector and Ryan stepped up. The suit is hers now. She didn't steal if it was given to her.

[cambridgeguy]

On 6/9/2021 at 8:51 PM, Trini said:

From Dries' perspective, "it seemed like only somebody like Diggle would have that point of view, perspective, and wisdom" that Luke would need to take this major step toward putting on the cowl.

Diggle: Luke, Oliver Queen was my best friend.  After meeting him I thought that it took years of training to become a costumed vigilante.  But then I met Thea Queen, Laurel Lance, and a few other people.  That's when I realized Oliver was just slow - you can pick it up in a few months, so get to it!

[Trini]

12 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

Granted I haven't understood the reasoning behind a lot of the decisions they've made as a result of Ruby leaving the series, but I can't really see why they would go through the trouble of writing a recast of Kate into the story just to write her back out again.

Just to have some closure and wrap up her story is a reason; since they didn't want to kill her off. It is possible to do that offscreen without an actress, but sometimes 'show' is better than 'tell'.  But now I'm not so sure she's going to be written out.

[rogvortex58]

Wallis Day seemed pretty certain in one of her interviews that Kate would always have a place in Gotham. And that her stepping up again to fight crime is something they were more likely to explore next season.
 

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“There’s always going to be a place for Kate in Gotham,” Day says. “I genuinely believe that she’s so integral to all these other characters in the show – if you look at Alice and you look at Jacob and Mary, they orbit around Kate.”

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“Whether we see Kate step up or not, I don’t know yet. But there is definitely room for them [both] in this show. And I think the answer to your question [about how Kate will fit back into the world she left behind] is probably going a story to be told next season.”

Which would have been around the time she was reading the script for the finale. It was also while they were filming the finale that she retweeted her old Pride tweet “Today I’m a gay superhero”.

I mean, let’s face it. She knows more about what’s going to happen than we do. And she hasn’t been very subtle with spoilers.

[Trini]

Source for those quotes?

[Chicago Redshirt]

4 hours ago, Trini said:

Source for those quotes?

They look to be from this May interview:

https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/batwoman-where-does-wallis-days-kate-kane-fit-in-gotham/

[Primal Slayer]

I can see them writing Kate as having PTSD to a degree. She'll probably suit up once and it goes miserably and she decides "I cant be Batwoman right now, you've done a great job taking up the mantle, it should remain yours"

[Perfect Xero]

Maybe Kate will decide to go find out what actually happened to her cousin Bruce who has been missing for 4(?) years at this point.

Given the Kane family history of going missing, being driven crazy, and turning into a villain, I'd be pretty nervous about where Batman is right now if I were them.

[Trini]

2.17 photos are out: https://batwoman.tv/kane-kate-gallery

Shenanigans with Kate at Wayne Tower? And Mary visits Alice!

[Trini]

Spoiler pics from Wallis Day and Rachel Skarsten:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CQWjJTZhzTu/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CQWbo1cD602/

[Primal Slayer]

5 hours ago, Trini said:

Spoiler pics from Wallis Day and Rachel Skarsten:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CQWjJTZhzTu/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CQWbo1cD602/

Ugly and cheap. 

[Trini]

4 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Ugly and cheap. 

That might be the point, though.

So will there be yet another new and redesigned Batwoman suit next season for Ryan? Because the current one is chopped up.

[Trini]

Season finale (2.18) photos are out: http://www.farfarawaysite.com/section/batwoman/gallery2/gallery18/gallery.htm

Most are episode stills, and one BTS of Batwing; several of Luke, and Kate/Circe.

[rogvortex58]

I just see Kate and Sophie in one of those photos. No sign of Circe.

Might finally be time for that kiss Meagan and Wallis have both been teasing.

[BeautifulFlower]

So episode 2x16 was Jacob's last appearance.

 

[Primal Slayer]

33 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

So episode 2x16 was Jacob's last appearance.

 

WOW that is lame. All of that and we dont even get to see him reunite with his daughter!!

[BeautifulFlower]

5 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

WOW that is lame. All of that and we dont even get to see him reunite with his daughter!!

Yeah...I understand Dries about how the Crows ending means there was no more story for Jacob. I get that. However, how is him going to prison a good ending for him? And, like you said, he got no reunion with his daughter.

[Primal Slayer]

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What's the plan for all these Batman trophies being let loose? Are we actually going to meet some of these villains, or will it be a case where random civilians pick up these weapons and cause mayhem?

Obviously it's a pretty intense cliffhanger. The tease we're making the audience is, "These are loose out in the wild." So anyone can literally come and pick them up. So it will be a combination of people who come and pick them up and the villains themselves, and derivatives of those villains. So Batwoman definitely has a huge problem next season.

https://ew.com/tv/batwoman-caroline-dries-season-2-finale-spoilers/

 

Not interested in random villains picking up items or derivatives. Arkham setting free the villains should be the problem, not an umbrella floating down a river. 

[legaleagle53]

8 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Not interested in random villains picking up items or derivatives. Arkham setting free the villains should be the problem, not an umbrella floating down a river. 

Besides, it would be far more interesting to see how Batwoman handles some of the classic Batman villains such as the Joker, Penguin, Riddler, Catwoman, and Poison Ivy!

[BeautifulFlower]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

https://ew.com/tv/batwoman-caroline-dries-season-2-finale-spoilers/

 

Not interested in random villains picking up items or derivatives. Arkham setting free the villains should be the problem, not an umbrella floating down a river. 

They teased us with plant vines growing. There's no way they give us that and not do Poison Ivy. There's no way there telling us someone in Gotham randomly gets her power.

[cambridgeguy]

8 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

However, how is him going to prison a good ending for him?

It's a good ending for all the fans who hate his guts.  After all, this is the guy who let the Crows devolve into thugs, sometimes treated his daughters like crap, etc.

[sugarbaker design]

3 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

It's a good ending for all the fans who hate his guts.

Thank you.

3 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

After all, this is the guy who let the Crows devolve into thugs, sometimes treated his daughters like crap, etc.

The Crows committed a host of constitutional violations, they were the enemy of the people.  I'll never forget the scene, set in a sports stadium, when the Crows, including their illustrious leader Jacob, was shooting Batwoman at  point blank range.  I don't give a fuck if this domestic terrorist is reunited with his long lost daughter.

[Trini]

17 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

They teased us with plant vines growing. There's no way they give us that and not do Poison Ivy. There's no way there telling us someone in Gotham randomly gets her power.

I dunno - it's Gotham - they could absolutely have a rando get her powers.

But, does Poison Ivy have any derivative characters? I haven't heard of any, but I'm not that knowledgeable about her comics stories.

[BeautifulFlower]

2 hours ago, Trini said:

I dunno - it's Gotham - they could absolutely have a rando get her powers.

But, does Poison Ivy have any derivative characters? I haven't heard of any, but I'm not that knowledgeable about her comics stories.

None that I know of. 

I really want them to do Ivy. People are already hyped about them possibly teasing her. They need to be smart and just do it. I think Poison Ivy as a big bad would be interesting. 

[scarynikki12]

3 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

I really want them to do Ivy. People are already hyped about them possibly teasing her. They need to be smart and just do it. I think Poison Ivy as a big bad would be interesting. 

Me too. People have been pointing out for years that Ivy would make for a great grey character rather than the full on villain she once was so they wouldn't even have to present her as a traditional Big Bad.

If they don't get to play with Ivy my guess is she'll have acolytes around the city who cause mayhem.