Frankie Grande: Overwhelming No

[choclatechip45]

 

BB16 was the first time where I watched the show and followed along on social media and it made for an interesting experience.  There was a strong distinction between how he was viewed in the RL and online, I personally only know about five people that only watch the show and don't go online so they loved Frankie.  Even after informing them all about the ~controversial~ statements he had made, they didn't care.  Meanwhile people online were acting like he murdered someone with a headline claiming him to be the "Most Hated Houseguest Ever." As bad as Frankie got I could never fully get behind the hate because some of it was seeped in homophobia (IMO), even now I see a lot of "He makes me ashamed of being gay..." "He is just way too gay..." "Someone should beat his face like he does with his makeup" type of remarks.  He's harmless and everyone that has met him have nothing but good things to say and that includes his cast.  Some I thought would never speak to him again -- Cody, Nicole, Jocasta, Victoria -- have all let it go.

Interesting my friends who don't follow the  online stuff or the live feeds liked him at first, but after the Ariana Grande reveal they all disliked him because they thought he felt like he was better than everyone else.

[ProfCrash]

Feel free to use it whenever I go a bit crazy. It happens

[Nite Ryder]

Interesting my friends who don't follow the  online stuff or the live feeds liked him at first, but after the Ariana Grande reveal they all disliked him because they thought he felt like he was better than everyone else.

 

Yeah, I found him obnoxious during that reveal and expected the same reaction from my friends.  That didn't happen and when I spoiled that he was going the week that he did... they were pissed, one walked away from me in disgust.  

 

It'll be interesting to see how he chooses to play again, the only thing he did right was his ability to win comps.  He blew his game by week 2 trying to be in everyone's ear, the rest of the house saw this, and no one wanted any association with him.  He put his trust in several people (Derrick/Team America, Caleb, Christine) that were only paying him lip service when the one person that wanted him around (Zach) he was quick to throw under the bus.  Zankie is inevitable, I don't see how they would have one without the other, I expect both will be fiercely loyal and protective over the other.   Frankie mentioned loosing Zach's trust in the first place was the biggest mistake he made in the house.  

[choclatechip45]

 

It'll be interesting to see how he chooses to play again, the only thing he did right was his ability to win comps.  He blew his game by week 2 trying to be in everyone's ear, the rest of the house saw this, and no one wanted any association with him.  He put his trust in several people (Derrick/Team America, Caleb, Christine) that were only paying him lip service when the one person that wanted him around (Zach) he was quick to throw under the bus.  Zankie is inevitable, I don't see how they would have one without the other, I expect both will be fiercely loyal and protective over the other.   Frankie mentioned loosing Zach's trust in the first place was the biggest mistake he made in the house.

I wonder if Frankie would play again. I know I've seen in interviews he wants to go on Survivor. I guess it depends how his career goes.

[Nite Ryder]

I wonder if Frankie would play again. I know I've seen in interviews he wants to go on Survivor. I guess it depends how his career goes.

 

I think he would be down again, plus I don't think CBS is going to let him do Survivor without more Zankie on BB (and Amazing Race?).  Julie Chen, for example, is a huge fan of that showmance.  

[choclatechip45]

 

Julie Chen, for example, is a huge fan of that showmance.

I don't think Julie has much say in All-Star casting. I remember during BB6 she completely trashed Jase saying she would cross the street to avoid seeing him and the next season he was cast for All-Stars. I think Robyn Kass has a bigger say and she seems to love the Hitmen Alliance over Zankie.

[Nite Ryder]

I don't think Julie has much say in All-Star casting. I remember during BB6 she completely trashed Jase saying she would cross the street to avoid seeing him and the next season he was cast for All-Stars. I think Robyn Kass has a bigger say and she seems to love the Hitmen Alliance over Zankie.

 

Yeah, no doubt and I think Robyn's preference may have more to do with the fans online then anything else.  The Zankie fans on both sides are a mess for such a small group of people, I don't think anyone is really clamoring for more Hitmen but they are a safe alternative.  Along with Haycole.  

[choclatechip45]

 

Yeah, no doubt and I think Robyn's preference may have more to do with the fans online then anything else.  The Zankie fans on both sides are a mess for such a small group of people, I don't think anyone is really clamoring for more Hitmen but they are a safe alternative.  Along with Haycole.

Believe me I don't want to see Derrick or Cody return. Derrick is one of my least favorite Big Brother players post-show. If Hayden Moss is on the next All-Star edition we will know how much influence Robyn has because those two are very tight. The reason I'm not surprised that Frankie is on good terms with his cast is because Aaryn and Candince are on speaking terms. I feel like if those two are on speaking terms almost anyone can besides  maybe Candice and Gina Marie.

[Nite Ryder]

Believe me I don't want to see Derrick or Cody return. Derrick is one of my least favorite Big Brother players post-show. If Hayden Moss is on the next All-Star edition we will know how much influence Robyn has because those two are very tight. The reason I'm not surprised that Frankie is on good terms with his cast is because Aaryn and Candince are on speaking terms. I feel like if those two are on speaking terms almost anyone can besides  maybe Candice and Gina Marie.

 

Admittedly for me BB16 is summed up with Derrick's clear win from jump & the good/bad of Zankie.  Everyone else just falls by the wayside so this is news to me, I had no idea about Hayden being that good with Robyn and that certainly stacks the return of Haycole much higher.  Good for Candice for being able to forgive Aaryn because what she said was well beyond anything Frankie said or did which is another example of why pegging him as the worst is ridiculous.  She would be my exception to what ProfCrash wonderfully stated tbh.  The less said about Gina Marie too the better, because she is another one.  

[choclatechip45]

 

Admittedly for me BB16 is summed up with Derrick's clear win from jump & the good/bad of Zankie.  Everyone else just falls by the wayside so this is news to me, I had no idea about Hayden being that good with Robyn and that certainly stacks the return of Haycole much higher.  Good for Candice for being able to forgive Aaryn because what she said was well beyond anything Frankie said or did which is another example of why pegging him as the worst is ridiculous.  She would be my exception to what ProfCrash wonderfully stated tbh.  The less said about Gina Marie too the better, because she is another one.

I meant Hayden Moss from BB12.

[Nite Ryder]

I meant Hayden Moss from BB12.

 

My bad, lol, you even stated his last name too.  

[AndreaK1041]

I still don't like Frankie and I do think he thinks he's better than everyone else.  I don't hate him, because I don't know him and he's not out killing puppies or anything.  I just think he's an annoying twerp.  

 

That said, he's easily avoidable for me now.  I don't follow him on social media, so I pretty much never think of him now.  I was of course more annoyed with him during the season because his personality is atrocious and he was on every moment of a television show that I, for better or for worse, really enjoy. I think wanting someone off your TV is a totally appropriate response to a reality contestant you find particularly repugnant.  I laughed when I saw comments here because "Overwhelming No" is still an excellent thread title.

[Nite Ryder]

I still don't like Frankie and I do think he thinks he's better than everyone else.  I don't hate him, because I don't know him and he's not out killing puppies or anything.  I just think he's an annoying twerp.  

 

That said, he's easily avoidable for me now.  I don't follow him on social media, so I pretty much never think of him now.  I was of course more annoyed with him during the season because his personality is atrocious and he was on every moment of a television show that I, for better or for worse, really enjoy. I think wanting someone off your TV is a totally appropriate response to a reality contestant you find particularly repugnant.  I laughed when I saw comments here because "Overwhelming No" is still an excellent thread title.

 

I'm referring to individuals that do follow his every move despite hating him.  I find plenty of things annoying about him despite calling myself a fan I will never have him on twitter notifications again, for example, because he twits so much.  This past weekend he's hung out with Derrick and Cody and a lot of the criticisms has been why. How dare the Hitmen hang out with Frankie when they hated him all summer.  It just boggles my mind that BB fans still harbor resentment for what happened in the game. They've moved on and it's shame these adult fans (I assume) haven't.  

[MrsDixon2U]

Sweet merciful god! The new season of America's Best Dance Crew is on right now and Frankie is a judge. He has on enough eye liner to paint the faces of the entire female audience. Make him go away...please.

[Nashville]

Sweet merciful god! The new season of America's Best Dance Crew is on right now and Frankie is a judge. He has on enough eye liner to paint the faces of the entire female audience. Make him go away...please.H

Hooray!

A reason NOT to watch a show!

Thank you, God!

[BK1978]

I forgot where I saw it but I remember seeing somewhere that Arianna said that Frankie was a Gay Icon.  I am not even gay and I am offended by this.

Edited June 25, 2016 by BK1978

[methodwriter85]

Is it true that Frankie basically molested Derrick? As in there's footage of him actually touching his penis?

[sunsheyen]

Is it true that Frankie basically molested Derrick? As in there's footage of him actually touching his penis?

No.

And if he did touch Derrick's penis, why would it be molestation? I do know that there was a discussion about dick size and they were looking at various prints through their underwear (Caleb made mention of himself looking like he had a vagina). Many of the guys checked each other out. Derrick did say at one point that Frankie was hot and if he was gay he would do him. 

[methodwriter85]

Hmm. I just remembered back during that season people were talking about how Frankie was basically sexually harrassing all the guys there, but to be honest, the touching didn't seem unwanted. They all seemed kind of cool with it.

[Nashville]

29 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

Hmm. I just remembered back during that season people were talking about how Frankie was basically sexually harrassing all the guys there, but to be honest, the touching didn't seem unwanted. They all seemed kind of cool with it.

My impression was a little different.  Nobody - except Zach, maybe - was necessarily all that "cool" with it. 

Given the prejudicial cesspool which had been the immediately preceding Season 15, however, most were afraid to say anything for fear of being labeled homophobic - a fear Frankie recognized, and of which he took advantage to a degree.

[Wings]

32 minutes ago, Nashville said:

My impression was a little different.  Nobody - except Zach, maybe - was necessarily all that "cool" with it. 

Given the prejudicial cesspool which had been the immediately preceding Season 15, however, most were afraid to say anything for fear of being labeled homophobic - a fear Frankie recognized, and of which he took advantage to a degree.

I agree 100 %. That struck me at the time. 

ETA. He was defying anyone to dare comment on his OTT queen behavior. 

Edited June 29, 2016 by wings707

[Lady Calypso]

10 hours ago, wings707 said:

I agree 100 %. That struck me at the time. 

ETA. He was defying anyone to dare comment on his OTT queen behavior. 

I can agree with this. Some of the guys didn't seem that happy with Frankie's insistence on touching them in some capacity. Zach was an exception, but even near the end of Zach's eviction, he was getting tired of Frankie. Frankie is the type of guy who needs the attention on him, or else. It's why I think he decided to reveal himself as Ariana's brother at the apparent right moment. It wasn't because he felt like it was the right time, but he was realizing that people were hating him and that would mean nobody would like him anymore. Of course, it just got the guys either not knowing who Ariana was, or having his closest allies start distrusting him (Zach). The girls (Victoria, mostly) seemed to change their attitudes toward him, but Frankie knew that it would work on some people, and it did.

He was just an annoying fly that wouldn't leave. I remember him not leaving Zach alone when he was upset with Frankie and asked many times to stop. Frankie was just too pushy and too drama-filled for that season. He was more annoying than good drama, especially with his constant bragging about his sister after he was exposed. 

[Wings]

One of my favorite Frankie moments on that show came from Julie.  Frankie was expecting the viewers to LOVE the little skit he produced in the living room one night.   Julie told him the response was an OVERWHELMING, NO!  His face showed his shock and dismay.  He could not believe it. 

[sunsheyen]

Devin asked/demanded that Frankie sleep and cuddle with him when he was HOH, Cody requested cuddles quite often and did his own fair share of homoerotic sexual flirtation, including stripping down and wagging his dick at Frankie, and Caleb had no problem saying no when he felt uncomfortable. He didn't put his hands on Donny or Hayden and as was mentioned before, his interactions with Zach were plenty consensual and many times initiated by Zach. This "predatory gay man" thing is really kind of disgusting and untrue and the root of a lot of violence towards gay men. 

[Nashville]

23 hours ago, sunsheyen said:

This "predatory gay man" thing is really kind of disgusting and untrue and the root of a lot of violence towards gay men. 

Not sure how you jumped from "took advantage to a degree" to "predatory gay man", but no matter.  What *I* find disgusting is the double standard being applied.  Maybe it's a difference in upbringing, but I was raised to believe that if Person A pushes unasked-for or unwanted expressions of affection - especially physical expressions - onto Person B to the point that Person B is uncomfortable enough to have to ask Person A to back off, then Person A has already crossed a line of social acceptability.  And that's the case regardless of personal orientations.

If Frankie's BB16 series of personal boundary violations were instead focused upon a hetero man doing the same things to women in the House, the man in question would be crucified in the media, both social and otherwise - and in fact was (witness Caleb and Amber).  But Frankie is supposed to get a pass because - he's gay...?  Double standard.

Straight / gay / bi / asex - none of these preclude acting decent to others.  And that includes respect for personal boundaries.

[Wings]

Well said.  ^^^^

[sunsheyen]

1 hour ago, Nashville said:

Not sure how you jumped from "took advantage to a degree" to "predatory gay man", but no matter.  What *I* find disgusting is the double standard being applied.  Maybe it's a difference in upbringing, but I was raised to believe that if Person A pushes unasked-for or unwanted expressions of affection - especially physical expressions - onto Person B to the point that Person B is uncomfortable enough to have to ask Person A to back off, then Person A has already crossed a line of social acceptability.  And that's the case regardless of personal orientations.

If Frankie's BB16 series of personal boundary violations were instead focused upon a hetero man doing the same things to women in the House, the man in question would be crucified in the media, both social and otherwise - and in fact was (witness Caleb and Amber).  But Frankie is supposed to get a pass because - he's gay...?  Double standard.

Straight / gay / bi / asex - none of these preclude acting decent to others.  And that includes respect for personal boundaries.

I am speaking to the BB fandom narrative of Frankie "molesting", despite the reality that I described and the participants lived, not just a primarily hateful and homophobic audience's view, and how that lends itself to the idea of a predatory gay man. Simple google searches will reveal the defenses of hate crimes saying that they felt a gay man was coming on to them. 

As far as this "series" of violations, as I mentioned before, people who felt uncomfortable (Caleb) spoke up, and most of the "violations" were the audience's read on the situation, not the participants'. Quite odd how this group of men that were repeatedly molested by Frankie felt comfortable enough to hang out, visit, spend the night with him outside the "safety" of the cameras, and have continued to do so for two years. Didn't see Amber doing that with Caleb. 

Edited June 30, 2016 by sunsheyen

[Lady Calypso]

I can't speak for any other Big Brother forums (Tumblr is its own special place), but I haven't seen anywhere on here that has described Frankie's actions as "molesting". I'd never use that word to describe Frankie's actions, because that is taking it to a whole other level that we don't need to be getting into. Nor is Frankie a predatory gay man, because again, that's taking it to a whole other level that I don't want to get into.

Personally, what I saw of Frankie was a man who wanted the attention on him and thrived on being in the spotlight. His choices were to get close with as many other houseguests as possible. There were times when I was watching the live feeds where Frankie would be physically touching others, which is fine at first. Zach seemed to enjoy those intimate moments, which is perfectly fine. What I like about season 16 is that the men, in particular, were perfectly fine with the intimacy, something that seriously spiraled in season 15 with racism and homophobia. 

However, and this is a big however for me, Frankie played the big flamboyant gay to a tee. It's fine that he's gay, that's not a problem. But I read his actions as very fake, because he was in a game, and he was playing to make it far. His strategy, from what I saw, included the physical interactions. However, there were times, especially near the end of his time, where people were turning on him, he knew it, and he got clingy. Again, a big moment I remember is Frankie following Zach around the week around his eviction. 

I can easily say that Cody got too physically intimate with Christine as well. It wasn't just Frankie who, I feel, used his sexuality to get further in the game. He was physically intimate with the guys for the most part. I just didn't understand what Frankie was really trying to accomplish with all of this flirting with the guys, personally. He just seemed very pushy for any kind of attention, especially when he didn't get it (see Frankie's secret being revealed at the moment he won Battle of the Block and just escaped eviction). For me, personally, that kind of game play makes me uncomfortable, no matter who uses it. Harmless flirting? Fine, whatever. Genuine feelings, that's fine too. But for me, there is a personal line and I just felt like Frankie (and Cody, with Christine...and Christine, with Cody) crossed it. 

Also, I was very, very uncomfortable with Frankie constantly touching Julie during his eviction interview. You two are not best friends, and doing this didn't win points with the viewers. 

[sunsheyen]

I used the term molest because it was in the question initially posed. It was implied in the followups, imo, with the unwanted touching comments, which are a bit different than your comparison to Cody/Christine. 

Frankie is a touchy feely guy. I get that everyone isn't like that, but the times I have seen him in person and in other jobs (red carpet hosting, his web show), he is just that much of a "big flamboyant gay" and is proud of who he is. I guess one could say he is "on" all the time, but that's what I've observed. I'd wager to say it doesn't really matter what viewers thought of him touching Julie, as she seemed to be fine with it and continues to engage with him.

It's very interesting to me that there is so much concern about his behavior by outsiders but the people who are directly involved have rarely expressed the same. 

[Wings]

14 minutes ago, sunsheyen said:

It's very interesting to me that there is so much concern about his behavior by outsiders but the people who are directly involved have rarely expressed the same.

Not interesting in the least.  They could not express their discomfort for fear of being called homophobic; and they were sophisticated enough to get that. 

Edited July 1, 2016 by wings707

[sunsheyen]

10 minutes ago, wings707 said:

Not interesting in the least.  They could not express their discomfort for fear of being called homophobic; and they were sophisticated enough to get that. 

That's why I said interesting to me. The people who folks are assuming were so discomfited are the same people who continue to hang out with, visit in his homes and lie in bed with Frankie two years later. Speaks much louder to outsiders' homophobia and general dislike for Frankie, not facts or behaviors of the parties involved. 

I'm done discussing this. If the people who personally interact with Frankie don't have a problem as evidenced by their ongoing friendships, I'm not entertaining a discussion about how uncomfortable this gay man made them and they only acted out of fear. That is not in line with reality of past or current behavior. 

Edited July 1, 2016 by sunsheyen

[legaleagle53]

And guess who's infesting the house on the British celebrity version of BB that is starting tonight.

Please forgive us, Britain!

[Kromm]

6 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

And guess who's infesting the house on the British celebrity version of BB that is starting tonight.

Please forgive us, Britain!

They have no idea what's headed their way.  I've gone on UK boards and asked and the poor fools have no clue.

To make things even worse (as Celeb BB does with Americans) he's going to be side by side with other Grade Z US reality zelebs. Real shit.  One lady from Mob Wives. Dog The Bounty Hunter's obnoxious wife.  And that girl Aubrey from Making the Band. I won't say Frankie might look good in comparison to that level--he's incapable of that--but I'm supposing his usual campaign of Fake Nice early on might fool some. 

[sunsheyen]

I am loving how pressed and obsessed BB fans are with Frankie! They can't stop themselves from thinking about him. Twitter is hilarious right now.

[UniqBlue69]

I just saw the first episode of BB Celeb Edition and Frankie introduced himself as a social media superstar and brother to Ariana Grande. And of course half his face was covered in glitter. I pity him.

[Kromm]

Unfortunately (so far) the British public seems somewhat taken by him. At least as manifested on boards about the show that I've read.

[Sayla Vee]

6 hours ago, Kromm said:

Unfortunately (so far) the British public seems somewhat taken by him. At least as manifested on boards about the show that I've read.

That could work out for the good.  He might decide to move there.

[SnideAsides]

And for those who haven't seen it, we have a BBUK forum here.

[DAngelus]

From Reddit, so take it with a grain of salt, but everybody seemed to believe it.  Andy even came out of the woodwork to have a laugh at Frankie's expense.  (Apparently he knows the poster.)

Quote

I'm in LA right now with friends for Halloween weekend and we were going from this popular gay event "Halloweenie" to the after party. A lot of gays dress up crazy for it and Frankie Grande is always there.

This year he was wearing some sort of full body alien makeup and dragging along some young, intoxicated boy behind him in a tutu.

In the super long line for the afterparty my friends and I just saw him walk right up to the door lady and just stood there expecting her to just let him in. When she didn't, he leaned in, convinced she couldn't tell it was him because of the makeup, and goes "I'm Frankie Grande." She replied back "I don't care."

It was like the most satisfying moment of my life. My friend turned to me and said "oh my god I wish we got that on tape. He thinks his own name carries so much weight and I wonder how often people are like '...who?'"

I got into the afterparty before Frankie K. Grande.

"Don't you know who [my sister is]?"  LMAO.

Edited October 30, 2016 by DAngelus

[pythonite]

I was just at Target. Ariana Grande has a perfume called "Frankie"

[Kromm]

8 hours ago, pythonite said:

I was just at Target. Ariana Grande has a perfume called "Frankie"

Ew. Does it smell like desperation? 

[Nashville]

I don’t know who y’all are going on about; the only “Frankie” I now acknowledge is a sweet transvestite from transsexual Transylvania.

[Halting Hex]

Oh, joy.  Just what the Billboard Music Awards needed, not one but two shots of Frankie the Glitter Flamingo reacting in the crowd.  I'll excuse the one they had when Ariana was performing, but I'm damned if I can see why the NBC cameras needed to inflict him on us when Taylor Swift was being honored as Top Female Artist later on.  (Top Social Artist, won by the K-Pop group later on, would have been more Ariana-relevant, as Ari was nominated for that category, but not for Top Female. Taylor, to my knowledge, barely even knows Frankie…the lucky girl.)

At least he won't be in Manchester for the memorial singalong honoring last year's terror attack victims later today, AFAIK.  Good to know there are some lengths he won't go to in pursuit of camera time.  But I bet it was a close call.  Sigh.

[HartofDixie]

[IndyMischa]

Mazel tov, but I still don't want him anywhere near my television ever again.