S03.E06: Household

[AngelaHunter]

3 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Why isn't Luke joining the resistance there?  He's a guy, he could blend in enough to get to the forces, OR he could be lobbying other countries for weapons, aid, etc.  OR he could actually do something to free his daughter.

I'm trying to think of a single thing he's done (besides whine) to even try to find out about his daughter and wife after he buggered off and left them to their fate, but I'm coming up empty. The odds I'm forgetting something are high. 

[Umbelina]

1 minute ago, AngelaHunter said:

I'm trying to think of a single thing he's done (besides whine) to even try to find out about his daughter and wife after he buggered off and left them to their fate, but I'm coming up empty. The odds I'm forgetting something are high. 

He yelled at officials in powerless Canada.

That's it.

[AngelaHunter]

Just now, Umbelina said:

He yelled at officials in powerless Canada.

That's it.

Thank you. Oh, he also went and goofed around at "Baby's First Protest." Yeah, that did a lot of good. Go, Luke!

[Umbelina]

16 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

Aunt Lydia.

ETA: I think you missed the part where I said I didn't disagree with you? But honestly, if we're going to go the "June is special because she can still make babies YAY!" route, they could have just locked her up in the sub-basement of the Handmaid Factory where they had the other crazy Handmaid locked up. They didn't need to let her run around to do all of this but Scientology needs the paycheque so. 

They did. 

Fred got her out.  Ha.

I'm leaving the whole religion thing out of discussions of Moss.  It doesn't matter how much I hate (almost all) of them, I just don't believe in discrimination on religious grounds.  As far as "it's a cult?"  To me, they all are.

Whoops, I just insulted them all...but at least I don't discriminate.  In her slight defense though, as well as a defense for all the other religion members?  She, like most of them, was born into it, didn't go out and choose it. 

I do know she's close to her family, especially her mother, and that if she "strays" they will remove all contact with her family, so there is that.

[AngelaHunter]

As for the mouth-rings - they must be removable, like nose rings, etc, that are so popular now. They have to be, or the women couldn't eat or even clean their teeth which at the very least would lead to malnutrition and at the worst illness from rotting teeth, both of which are hardly conducive to health and child-bearing. The breeding stock would be kept in the best health possible.

[Umbelina]

11 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Thank you. Oh, he also went and goofed around at "Baby's First Protest." Yeah, that did a lot of good. Go, Luke!

To be fair to Luke though, I'll just point out that Moira hasn't done shit either, and she has information that could blow the lid off.  (Jezebels)

The only one with a brain is silent Erin.  She's the one that told them those smuggled letters WERE a "bomb."  At least she thinks.

I also have hope for Emily, I can see her as a crusader, and organizer, and I hope that happens.

1 minute ago, AngelaHunter said:

As for the mouth-rings - they must be removable, like nose rings, etc, that are so popular now. They have to be, or the women couldn't eat or even clean their teeth which at the very least would lead to malnutrition and at the worst illness from rotting teeth, both of which are hardly conducive to health and child-bearing. The breeding stock would be kept in the best health possible.

Yes, they certainly look like they are, those balls at the top and bottom would slip off for ring removal.

Was it the "inside the esisode" that said the DC handmaids had "taken a vow of silence" or was it somewhere else?  Because WHAT THE FUCK?

[AngelaHunter]

1 minute ago, Umbelina said:

To be fair to Luke though, I'll just point out that Moira hasn't done shit either, and she has information that could blow the lid off. 

Very true. Their tedious scenes consist mostly of them bitching to each other.

[Umbelina]

8 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Very true. Their tedious scenes consist mostly of them bitching to each other.

God yes.

I mean seriously, if I hadn't been able to read for YEARS, and had no idea what had been happening in the world, no access to computers, to television, to my US country people, or information, no ability to complain about the horrors I was enduring?

That's ALL I would be doing, reading everything, talking to everyone that would listen, giving interviews, trying to get my friends out... I'd probably also get the hell out of Canada, much too close to Gilead for me to feel safe.

Now I've found a ridiculous movie on Hulu though, that absurd as it is? Is making more sense than this show, and is a lot more fun.  The Spy Who Dumped Me.

Edited July 1, 2019 by Umbelina

[AngelaHunter]

15 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

That's ALL I would be doing, reading everything, talking to everyone that would listen, giving interviews, trying to get my friends out..

You'd think they'd at the very least put up a blog somewhere online and get the word out, instead of sitting around in semi-darkness, drinking wine and griping while trying to figure out how to feed and diaper a baby. 

The problem, for me, is that there really is no one left to root for or care about. We used to root for June (at, least I did) but I'm finding her just as irritating and unlikable as I do every single other character on this show. How can we think she's in such peril when she seems free to do just about anything, like sitting and enjoying a nice ciggie, standing in the middle of the street smooching with Nick and screaming at Serena in public, with no repercussions. Engaging plot and story progression have been kicked aside, it seems, for artistic overhead shots (which yes, were striking but enough already! ) heavy-handed symbolism and interminable tear-filled eyeball close-ups.

[Miles]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

I'm leaving the whole religion thing out of discussions of Moss.  It doesn't matter how much I hate (almost all) of them, I just don't believe in discrimination on religious grounds.  As far as "it's a cult?"  To me, they all are.

I mean it's a bit weird, that somebody who plays the lead in a show about how bad a religous cult that is holding slaves is, is also in a religious cult that's holding slaves in real life...

I think all religions are equally stupid, but Scientology seems to be on the more evil side at the moment. The catholic church left most of it's extorting of members and enslaving people in the middle ages.

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

Yes, they certainly look like they are, those balls at the top and bottom would slip off for ring removal.

What balls? I think you are mixing up that book cover with what was on the show. The rings on the show were solid. Not even a seam was visable. Whatever locking mechanism must be inside the mouth and it doesn't look like you could get to it without some special equipment, considering how tight the mouth is shut.

Those things don't come off regularly, certainly not enough for the handmaids to eat regular meals. It's still dumb.

Edited July 1, 2019 by Miles

[Umbelina]

8 minutes ago, Miles said:

What balls? I think you are mixing up that book cover with what was on the show. The rings on the show were solid. Not even a seam was visable. Whatever locking mechanism must be inside the mouth and it doesn't look like you could get to it without some special equipment, considering how tight the moth is shut.

Those things don't come off regularly, certainly not enough for the handmaids to eat regular meals. It's still dumb.

I'll have to trust you on that, because it was dark and I was watching on a rather small screen.

Anyone have a blow up close up?

Also, it makes no sense, the handmaids would die soon with permanently locked off mouths, AND they could still talk.

Edited July 1, 2019 by Umbelina

[AnswersWanted]

2 hours ago, mtlchick said:

After a pretty long and tough weekend, this post made me laugh so hard that I'm coughing.  Thank you for that.  And so very true.  It will be my motivation to get through the nonsense I'm currently watching.

I LOVED the first season.  I was ok with the second season, though it was slightly more good and bad.  This season is...well...why? I'm trying to figure out how June has a lot more leeway when 99.9% of other handmaids would have been killed a long time ago.  And not she has a lot of power to wield anyway.  Shows like this and 13 Reasons Why are becoming a trend where after going through the source material, you find ANY reason to keep it going only to fail at so many levels.    I have an idea what the endgame will eventually be but this is becoming a very dragged out way to even get to the fringes of that endgame.  Which will make me tune out a lot faster. 

Blessed day, I am so glad I could be of service, hee.

My weird sense of humor is really all that’s keeping me hanging on this season, trying to find something to laugh about when I just want to do is slap all the writers and make them wear lip rings. 

I completely agree, the second Miller, and Littlefield, got full control of where they could take this show it’s been straight down hill ever sense, with plenty of bumps along the way. They had brilliant source material to work with, to use as genuine inspiration and instead they’re pumping out horse shit left and right. 

Frankly they’ve ruined June for me. I don’t feel any kind of way about her anymore except annoyed and tired of watching her get away with everything, while often being stupid enough to get caught but yet she never can be, or punished in any real severe sort of way because she’s the lead character, blah blah boring. 

These writers just killed the heart of this story. I agree it seems they’ve already telegraphed their future intentions and I am not going along for that ride. Unless these idiots take a huge 180 degree turn and take this show in a whole new direction, for good, this season will be my last. 

1 hour ago, Callaphera said:

I know that this season of Handmaid's was filmed awhile ago but I couldn't help snort laughing at the shot of June (and then Commander Waterford) framed with the giant angel wings of the statue. "Hey guys! The wing shot worked so well with GoT, we should do the same!"

I honestly have no idea what they're trying to accomplish this season or what the through story is but I appreciate that Nick and June still have so much plot armour that they can be at a Grand High Poobah Commander's house in probably the most tightly secured city in Gilead... and make out in the garden like fools. Also that June and Serena can have a shouting match in a very echo-y place with absolutely no guards around but, like, twenty feet away is a giant collection of Handmaids, Commander Waterford, and cameras. 

The garden scene was hilarious for all the wrong reasons. Those two should have been shot at within mere seconds of reaching each other. That Commander supposedly lives in a fortress but a visiting handmaid can go meet her lover in the middle night without so much as a guard dog to bark or surveillance lights to avoid.

If anything the show made sure to light their scene very nicely so we could see all the way up both actors’ nostrils, I know I appreciated that touch...

I am going to guess we just didn’t realize that June and Serena had entered the same invisible, protective bubble that kept them both safe during the fire at the Waterford’s former home. 

Serena set her bed ablaze and instead of igniting into a human torch in 10 seconds, she was able to stare at that bed, in slow motion, for 9 goddamn minutes, until June calmly spent another 12 minutes coaxing her away, all while the rest of the world slowed down enough that the fire didn’t spread and engulf them both.

I am going to assume, as you do, that invisible bubble shield just got packed for the trip, you know, it’s so very handy. You never know when you need to scream and bitch at your not so former rapist who wishes she could have given you lip rings while you both stand in front of headless Abe as a silent witness to your pointless meltdown, all the while hundreds of other people mill around within short walking distance from you but apparently hear NOTHING.

I swear, being this sarcastic so much of the time is making me bitter at this point. 

I think what frustrates me the most is that the only reason any of these characters need so much plot armor in the first place is because the plots are complete trash.

These characters have to be protected from the completely shitty environments that are continually written for them. Yet the writers seem oblivious to this.

Atwood didn’t have to protect her characters this hard, or unbelievably, because she wrote a solid story behind the action that supported her vision. That’s not happening here in the slightest.

Seriously, I wonder just how much thought they even give to this show overall, it’s not reading like all that much to me. They forget more than they seem capable of remembering. These writers are throwing random shit at the wall and seeing what sticks. 

I think they get lucky from time to time, like with the inclusion of Lawrence or showing us the underground Marthas’ network for a fleeting minute, but then we have such an uneven heap of illogical bullshit coming our way as well, the Swiss angle, Nick’s rewrite, the lip rings, the fucking hoard of Handmaids (who came from where exactly, test tubs?; are they secretly cloning them now?), I mean it’s garbage, and that’s where the potential for telling a great story from the very beginning gets buried for me, and I don’t feel like sticking around for x number of seasons as they try to figure out what point, exactly, are they even trying to make anymore. 

I see them more concerned about winning awards at this point than actually telling an important story relevant to today’s society. 

I don’t want to cone up with 110 reasons on my own time that excuse so much of the lazy and uninspired writing. If they cannot be bothered to spend all those months of filming to write this shit out free and clear, I am not going to fanfic away all the inconsistencies. 

I see this season ending as it began, if not worse, and if that’s the case, I’ve had enough. I will happily wait for Atwood’s book to help replace it in my memory banks, at least these last two seasons. 

[Miles]

1 minute ago, Umbelina said:

Anyone have a blow up close up?

Here you go:

2 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Also, it makes no sense, the handmaids would die soon with permanently locked off mouths, AND they could still talk.

The power of horrible writing!

[AnswersWanted]

For some reasons I’ve yet to see someone photo grab the shot from the scene with Lydia pulling down one of the handmaid’s mouth guards, and you can clearly, in daylight, see that their rings are deeply imbedded. There is only dark scaring around the areas of insertion, nothing more.

They are not made with any outward locking device or knobs or anything, they are rings pierced directly through the skin and they look solid. I have friends who do piercings, those kind of rings aren’t meant to be easily removed, if taken out at all. That’s why you would never see them used in such a way, as to pierce a mouth. 

And yes, they wouldn’t even impede speech as they currently are shown, not unless the tongue was pierced as well, and that really would be a short lived handmaid because sister girlfriend is going to choke to death within a week, if she’s that lucky. 

If the rings were so easily removed, the handmaid with June knew they were alone, why wouldn’t she have taken them out to quietly chat? Why didn’t she merely part her lips to whisper? These handmaids become pretty resourceful and find their way around their limitations a lot of times, She looked at June with the haunted eyes of a woman who had no voice to use regardless of what she may have wanted. 

15 minutes ago, Miles said:

The power of horrible writing!

Put it on a t-shirt.

I don’t buy for a second the writers put any thought into the actual logistics of these lip rings. They wanted another way to torture porn shock the audience, that’s it. 

Serena gets shot in the abdomen but retains fertility, we guess, Emily survived radiation poisoning with a mere uptick in cholesterol, working out real life afflictions and staying true to how human bodies work is not how this writing team spends their time apparently. They just write it and shoot it, the end. 

Edited July 1, 2019 by AnswersWanted

[Umbelina]

17 minutes ago, Miles said:

Here you go:

The power of horrible writing!

I blew it up and massively fill lighted it.  There are balls on the bottom lip parts.

[Miles]

7 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

For some reasons I’ve yet to see someone photo grab the shot from the scene with Lydia pulling down one of the handmaid’s mouth guards, and you can clearly, in daylight, see that their rings are deeply imbedded. There is only dark scaring around the areas of insertion, nothing more.

It's not much more viseble than the screnshot above, which I think shows what you describe quite clearly, but here you go:

2 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I blew it up and massively fill lighted it.  There are balls on the bottom lip parts. 

There aren't that's just the holes in her skin. You also see them on the top.

Edited July 1, 2019 by Miles

[Umbelina]

4 minutes ago, Miles said:

It's not much more viseble than the screnshot above, which I think shows what you describe quite clearly, but here you go:

The bottom lip is covered, that's where I see the balls in the other photo.

Can't post it here, but if you just super lighten it and massively blow it up, you can clearly see balls on the bottom lip, so these appear to thread through the top and the closure is on the bottom.

Stupid anyway, even though yes, I know, this kind of thing was done historically, I believe with US slaves among others.

The tops do look like wounds though, no balls there.

Edited July 1, 2019 by Umbelina

[Umbelina]

41 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

For some reasons I’ve yet to see someone photo grab the shot from the scene with Lydia pulling down one of the handmaid’s mouth guards, and you can clearly, in daylight, see that their rings are deeply imbedded. There is only dark scaring around the areas of insertion, nothing more.

They are not made with any outward locking device or knobs or anything, they are rings pierced directly through the skin and they look solid. I have friends who do piercings, those kind of rings aren’t meant to be easily removed, if taken out at all. That’s why you would never see them used in such a way, as to pierce a mouth. 

And yes, they wouldn’t even impede speech as they currently are shown, not unless the tongue was pierced as well, and that really would be a short lived handmaid because sister girlfriend is going to choke to death within a week, if she’s that lucky. 

Put it on a t-shirt.

I don’t buy for a second the writers put any thought into the actual logistics of these lip rings. They wanted another way to torture porn shock the audience, that’s it. 

Serena gets shot in the abdomen but retains fertility, we guess, Emily survived radiation poisoning with a mere uptick in cholesterol, working out real life afflictions and staying true to how human bodies work is not how this writing team spends their time apparently. They just write it and shoot it, the end. 

Blow up that first screen shot and use fill light and sharpen...the balls are on the bottom lips quite clear, but not on the tops.

ETA found someone else who fill lighted it.

You can see the balls here, so that confirms what I saw when I did the same thing.

Edited July 1, 2019 by Umbelina

[HeySandyStrange]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

God yes.

I mean seriously, if I hadn't been able to read for YEARS, and had no idea what had been happening in the world, no access to computers, to television, to my US country people, or information, no ability to complain about the horrors I was enduring?

That's ALL I would be doing, reading everything, talking to everyone that would listen, giving interviews, trying to get my friends out... I'd probably also get the hell out of Canada, much too close to Gilead for me to feel safe.

Now I've found a ridiculous movie on Hulu though, that absurd as it is? Is making more sense than this show, and is a lot more fun.  The Spy Who Dumped Me.

Not to mention, you'd think that reporters and documentarions from around the world would be swarming the American refugees in Canada, chomping at the bit to get in on probably the biggest story of the century, the takeover of America by the dictatorship know as Gilead. And of course the struggling American government should be using the experiences of their refugees to leverage as propaganda to win the hearts and minds of the world. Yet, in season three, the outside world is is all but non existent in this universe. It makes me wish that Margaret Atwood had written a series of books about Gilead, so the writers had a much better framework to use. Because they are sucking on their own.

[Miles]

1 minute ago, Umbelina said:

Can't post it here, but if you just super lighten it and massively blow it up, you can clearly see balls on the bottom lip, so these appear to thread through the top and the closure is on the bottom.

Why wouldn't you be able to post it here? I posted the images here.

Also there are no balls. You can't just "enhance" and "make it brighter" an image. This isn't a CSI show. All you are doing is increase artifacts, which then makes it look like there is something where there's nothing.

You can see quite clearly without doing anything to the image, that it's just solid rings with nothing on them. On the bottom you see the holes in her skin, just like you see at the top.

[Umbelina]

5 minutes ago, Miles said:

Why wouldn't you be able to post it here? I posted the images here.

Also there are no balls. You can't just "enhance" and "make it brighter" an image. This isn't a CSI show. All you are doing is increase artifacts, which then makes it look like there is something where there's nothing.

You can see quite clearly without doing anything to the image, that it's just solid rings with nothing on them. On the bottom you see the holes in her skin, just like you see at the top.

I guess I just don't know how.  😉

Someone else did it though, if you enlarge you can see the balls.  I HAD to fill light it because the image was so dark, that's all I did, with a bit of sharpen since I also enlarged your image in order to get very close and see it properly.  I didn't ALTER the image, I made it visible.

Edited July 1, 2019 by Umbelina

[AnswersWanted]

26 minutes ago, Miles said:

It's not much more viseble than the screnshot above, which I think shows what you describe quite clearly, but here you go:

There aren't that's just the holes in her skin. You also see them on the top.

Thanks, I just think the rings are a little more clearly visible in this shot, at least there's more light.

I just don't think removable rings would get such a strong reaction, not just from June but Lydia as well.

They acted like those handmaids were trapped in an iron mask, not dealing with simple piercings one can remove whenever. But that's just the vibe I got.

20 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Blow up that first screen shot and use fill light and sharpen...the balls are on the bottom lips quite clear, but not on the tops.

The lighting doesn't change what I see. All I see are curved rings and dark scars beneath her bottom lip. 

Unless the show actually bothers to say so, or shows us a full shot of how the mouth piece was designed, we will all have our opinions.

I am sure even if the show didn't think to make them removable,  after so many have pointed out the utter bullshit behind such a decision, they will claim they were all along. Just like Serena's none bullet riddled womb was totally safe the whole time. 

[Umbelina]

6 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

Thanks, I just think the rings are a little more clearly visible in this shot, at least there's more light.

I just don't think removable rings would get such a strong reaction, not just from June but Lydia as well.

They acted like those handmaids were trapped in an iron mask, not dealing with simple piercings one can remove whenever. But that's just the vibe I got.

The lighting doesn't change what I see. All I see are curved rings and dark scars beneath her bottom lip. 

Unless the show actually bothers to say so, or shows us a full shot of how the mouth piece was designed, we will all have our opinions.

I am sure even if the show didn't think to make them removable,  after so many have pointed out the utter bullshit behind such a decision, they will claim they were all along. Just like Serena's none bullet riddled womb was totally safe the whole time. 

You honestly can't see this?

Just copy save and enlarge.  The (bottom lip) balls are clearly visible, round, reflecting light, all of it.

ETA. the sight of this would certainly make me sick, AND shocked.  Pain is clearly involved, from what looks like dried blood at the top.

I just did it again, the center ball is the most visible.

Edited July 1, 2019 by Umbelina

[AnswersWanted]

Just now, Umbelina said:

You honestly can't see this?

Just copy save and enlarge.  The (bottom lip) balls are clearly visible, round, reflecting light, all of it.

I see rings piercing through skin, as I always have, that's all, no balls.

I get you see something different, but I don't, that picture doesn't show me anything different, no matter its' lighting or size, than the first time I viewed it watching the episode. 

42 minutes ago, HeySandyStrange said:

Not to mention, you'd think that reporters and documentarions from around the world would be swarming the American refugees in Canada, chomping at the bit to get in on probably the biggest story of the century, the takeover of America by the dictatorship know as Gilead. And of course the struggling American government should be using the experiences of their refugees to leverage as propaganda to win the hearts and minds of the world. Yet, in season three, the outside world is is all but non existent in this universe. It makes me wish that Margaret Atwood had written a series of books about Gilead, so the writers had a much better framework to use. Because they are sucking on their own.

Well she is coming out with a new book soon  so we might get more out of her yet, heh, some decent Gilead world building for once would be lovely to see.

The world the show has crafted is not working for me at all pretty much. I think collectively in just this episode thread alone we have come up with so many great ideas and solutions to their bumbling world building failures.

Just need to get that twenty million dollar check and I would be happy to join the writing team, heh. 

[Umbelina]

[goldilocks]

.

Edited July 1, 2019 by goldilocks
messed up the picture

[goldilocks]

3 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

For some reasons I’ve yet to see someone photo grab the shot from the scene with Lydia pulling down one of the handmaid’s mouth guards, and you can clearly, in daylight, see that their rings are deeply imbedded. There is only dark scaring around the areas of insertion, nothing more.

They are not made with any outward locking device or knobs or anything, they are rings pierced directly through the skin and they look solid. I have friends who do piercings, those kind of rings aren’t meant to be easily removed, if taken out at all. That’s why you would never see them used in such a way, as to pierce a mouth. 

And yes, they wouldn’t even impede speech as they currently are shown, not unless the tongue was pierced as well, and that really would be a short lived handmaid because sister girlfriend is going to choke to death within a week, if she’s that lucky. 

If the rings were so easily removed, the handmaid with June knew they were alone, why wouldn’t she have taken them out to quietly chat? Why didn’t she merely part her lips to whisper? These handmaids become pretty resourceful and find their way around their limitations a lot of times, She looked at June with the haunted eyes of a woman who had no voice to use regardless of what she may have wanted. 

Put it on a t-shirt.

I don’t buy for a second the writers put any thought into the actual logistics of these lip rings. They wanted another way to torture porn shock the audience, that’s it. 

Serena gets shot in the abdomen but retains fertility, we guess, Emily survived radiation poisoning with a mere uptick in cholesterol, working out real life afflictions and staying true to how human bodies work is not how this writing team spends their time apparently. They just write it and shoot it, the end. 

Apparently someone has grabbed a screenshot. I found this online. You’re right, AnswersWanted, no balls, just piercing right into the skin both top and bottom. It looks like it is only artifacts in the other pictures that could be mistaken for balls.

[AllyB]

6 hours ago, Callaphera said:

Aunt Lydia.

Well she did survive a brutal stabbing!
 

4 hours ago, Miles said:

The catholic church left most of it's extorting of members and enslaving people in the middle ages.

Off topic, but that's most certainly not true. The RCC still pulls that crap wherever they can get away with it. And in the places where they have been stopped, they are still actively covering up for perpetrators. Just read up on Magdelene Laundries, the Tuam babies or the RCC's part in the lost children of Francoism. 


 

Edited July 1, 2019 by AllyB

[Ceindreadh]

On 6/30/2019 at 5:29 AM, lucindabelle said:

THis show makes no sense. We’re jn a world where iPods and mp3s don’t exists since Luke ia out there with a Walkman. But the whole world accepts the existence of gilead? No way. It is only a few years since gilead even began.

the visuals of headless Abe and the huge cross would have been a lot more effective if the camera hadn’t lingered on them forever.

the mouth staples were scary and though I first thought liquid diet later thought wait. All their teeth will fall out. Why not just take their tongues out? Just as brutal and grounded in reality. Or their vocal cords or something. 

I felt that it and the statues were driving the episode. This episode was all imagery: nick being saluted, scary, makes no sense. A cross reflected in her eye. Nuremberg like gathering (this has become a cliche). I don’t watch the show for beautiful artistic film shots. 

i don’t know if I want to keep watching. 

Luke had a Walkman because it was the easiest way to listen to the tape June made. 

June made a tape rather than an mp3 or other audio file because she had access to a tape recorder and a supply of recordable tapes but no access to a computer. 

There may well not be ipods in Canada, but Luke using a Walkman isn’t proof one way or the other. 

[jenn31]

I’m not sure if I missed it. Were all those handmaids in D.C. supposed to have the mouth clamps under the mouth scarves? Or were they only doled out as punishments for the defiant? 

[alexvillage]

7 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

I have no idea what is the deal with Nick and by then I was too bored to care.

This sums up my feeling about the show perfectly. I can't see the storyline, I can only see what it could have been, so I don't really feel like watching the episodes anymore. 

[Joana]

5 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

I am sure even if the show didn't think to make them removable,  after so many have pointed out the utter bullshit behind such a decision, they will claim they were all along. Just like Serena's none bullet riddled womb was totally safe the whole time. 

I can totally imagine this. Hey, those devices are purely symbolic and represent the handmaids' vows to silence and obedience. The rings don't actually go through the flesh at all and the women are able to open their mouths at any time, they just choose not to. How did you not SEE that at once, duh?

And actually, I AM half-expecting an explanation like this. 

[Trillian]

15 hours ago, CouchPotatoNoLife said:

But I don't think that's the kind of show the showrunners wanted to make. I think the showrunners wanted a show to explore what would happen in a society where women lost all rights.

I think you’ve made an important observation, but I see it a bit differently.  My own thinking is that Margaret Atwood wanted to explore what would happen in a society where women lost all rights.  The show runners wanted to romp through the idea of international politics, sometimes trying to spin an entire major plot line out of a throw-away comment or two from the book.   Problem is, as so many here have pointed out, the original story can’t sustain the wild spin off - because it was never written for that purpose - and the show runners aren’t clever enough to keep it coherent. 

[ferjy]

3 hours ago, goldilocks said:

Apparently someone has grabbed a screenshot. I found this online. You’re right, AnswersWanted, no balls, just piercing right into the skin both top and bottom. It looks like it is only artifacts in the other pictures that could be mistaken for balls.

God that’s freaky. {{shudder}} And downright dangerous. There was no need to add that atrocity at this point in the game. 

[ferjy]

1 hour ago, jenn31 said:

I’m not sure if I missed it. Were all those handmaids in D.C. supposed to have the mouth clamps under the mouth scarves? Or were they only doled out as punishments for the defiant? 

We’ll probably never know. More proof that they just stuck it in for shock value. No explanation whatsoever, which might have at least made it somewhat interesting.

[goldilocks]

On 6/27/2019 at 6:13 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

To be fair, production on S3 of this show was finished by the time that particular episode of GoT aired, so the similar wing shots were just coincidental. I seriously doubt that the HT showrunners saw that GoT episode a few weeks ago, thought, "Ooh, cool idea!" and called everyone back to reshoot the scenes in this episode with the angel statue just so that they could incorporate the wing imagery.

Actually, I wouldn’t put it past them. You can insert things digitally after the fact. I can see these bozos uttering your exact quoted words while rubbing their hands with glee. 😄 

[AnswersWanted]

4 hours ago, goldilocks said:

Apparently someone has grabbed a screenshot. I found this online. You’re right, AnswersWanted, no balls, just piercing right into the skin both top and bottom. It looks like it is only artifacts in the other pictures that could be mistaken for balls.

Well this is certainly a clear shot...ffs, they look even worse when you see them full on. 

These women would be DEAD, show, full on dead, goddamit. 

I think the intial shot is deceptive because it was dark and shadows were making it harder to see how they looped through the bottom lip. 

2 hours ago, jenn31 said:

I’m not sure if I missed it. Were all those handmaids in D.C. supposed to have the mouth clamps under the mouth scarves? Or were they only doled out as punishments for the defiant? 

I think the show runners have mentioned that the DC handmaids have all taken a vow of silence, but they haven't said if that vow meant these women voluntarily agreed to the rings initially and then they became a requirement. Maybe it was seen as a handmaid's true devotion to Gilead and it got her better treatment, etc.

Or was this just another move by Gilead to physically subjugate their sex slaves and breeding stock. This way they can make sure whatever these women go through,  any information they know, any chance of rebellion, is locked away behind those rings. Of course they could still write, but it's doubtful these women would ever risk it in DC.

Personally I think it makes the most sense to say it was formed out of punishment, what very little sense these rings make at all. These women clearly have their mouths permanently sealed together, this is something that's bound to shorten their already questionable life spans however you look at it. 

1 hour ago, Joana said:

I can totally imagine this. Hey, those devices are purely symbolic and represent the handmaids' vows to silence and obedience. The rings don't actually go through the flesh at all and the women are able to open their mouths at any time, they just choose not to. How did you not SEE that at once, duh?

And actually, I AM half-expecting an explanation like this. 

I will directly quote you when that exact statement comes out of Miller's mouth or maybe Littlefield. So you can then sue them for plagiarism, heh.g

They just might as well say the DC handmaids are these new bionic humanoid forms that don't have to eat or drink, or brush their teeth, or worry about choking to death on morning sickness or built up saliva, or their own ttongues...so easy peasy. 

My head hurts.

1 hour ago, ferjy said:

God that’s freaky. {{shudder}} And downright dangerous. There was no need to add that atrocity at this point in the game. 

That's my biggest takeaway, this truly unnecessary step to horrify the viewer that really makes no sense up against the actual story being told. 

 The DC handmaids really only need to be just as vulnerable to all the other atrocities that Gilead has inflicted on their other handmaids, why is this move considered so important that it would keep them so much more in line, but I guess in a way it would because it most definitely kills them off much faster.

1 hour ago, ferjy said:

We’ll probably never know. More proof that they just stuck it in for shock value. No explanation whatsoever, which might have at least made it somewhat interesting.

These writers offend my sense of logic more and more this season. 

Edited July 1, 2019 by AnswersWanted

[jenn31]

15 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

Well this is certainly a clear shot...ffs, they look even worse when you see them full on. 

These women would be DEAD, show, full on dead, goddamit. 

I think the intial shot is deceptive because it was dark and shadows were making it harder to see how they looped through the bottom lip. 

I think the show runners have mentioned that the DC handmaids have all taken a vow of silence, but they haven't said if that vow meant these women voluntarily agreed to the rings initially and then they became a requirement. Maybe it was seen as a handmaid's true devotion to Gilead and it got her better treatment, etc.

Or was this just another move by Gilead to physically subjugate their sex slaves and breeding stock. This way they can make sure whatever these women go through,  any information they know, any chance of rebellion, is locked away behind those rings. Of course they could still write, but it's doubtful these women would ever risk it in DC.

Personally I think it makes the most sense to say it was formed out of punishment, what very little sense these rings make at all. These women clearly have their mouths permanently sealed together, this is something that's bound to shorten their already questionable life spans however you look at it. 

I will directly quote you when that exact statement comes out of Miller's mouth or maybe Littlefield. So you can then sue them for plagiarism, heh.g

They just might as well say the DC handmaids are these new bionic humanoid forms that don't have to eat or drink, or brush their teeth, or worry about choking to death on morning sickness or built up saliva, or their own ttongues...so easy peasy. 

My head hurts.

That's my biggest takeaway, this truly unnecessary step to horrify the viewer that really makes no sense up against the actual story being told. 

 The DC handmaids really only need to be just as vulnerable to all the other atrocities that Gilead has inflicted on their other handmaids, why is this move considered so important that it would keep them so much more in line, but I guess in a way it would because it most definitely kills them off much faster.

These writers offend my sense of logic more and more this season. 

I see, thanks. I hate when you have to rely on showrunners explaining it in interviews. It should be clear in the show itself.  Still, whatever the reason, I was hoping most of them only had to wear the red mouth guards to shut them up ... er... to fulfill their vow of silence, and only a few defiant ones had the wires put on. But I guess it may never be elaborated on. 

[AnswersWanted]

8 minutes ago, jenn31 said:

I see, thanks. I hate when you have to rely on showrunners explaining it in interviews. It should be clear in the show itself.  Still, whatever the reason, I was hoping most of them only had to wear the red mouth guards to shut them up ... er... to fulfill their vow of silence, and only a few defiant ones had the wires put on. But I guess it may never be elaborated on. 

What got me about the mouth coverings is how easily still they can be quickly pulled down and the handmaid’s mouth is free and clear yet again anyway. So unless they have those rings, again the vow of silence couldn’t really be enforced or proven. 

We saw this during the headless Abe showdown between June and and Serena. June kept yanking hers down at will, nothing to stop her, and obviously no punishment was coming her way as long as no one saw or reported her. 

Those buckles we saw Lydia doing up for June that were positioned at the back don’t do anything about keeping her mouth secured, they just hold up the piece along the chin and neck. 

In fact, the gag they put on Emily in season 1 was a much more effective silencing tool. It actually wasn’t possible for someone to speak with one on. 

A simple, effective gag would have been something placed into the women’s mouths to restrict their tongues, then at the back they could have locks that can only be undone by a wife or commander that the handmaid serves, so she would be free to eat during meals, take care of her oral hygiene, etc. It wasn’t rocket surgery to come up with a feasible option that would make this “vow of silence” angle work more plausibly. 

It would still be stupid as hell and unnecessary, but not as stupid or unnecessary, or killery for the handmaid. 

[AngelaHunter]

The rings definitely pierce the skin, but so do all the bizarre piercings we see today, including safety pins and padlocks. I still say the ones on the handmaid have to be removable or else they would be utterly illogical and counterproductive in a society that cherishes healthy, fertile women. Aside from being rendered unable to eat at all, what about even simple things, like yawning and sneezing? They'd rip their mouths apart or blow their brains out with an inverted sneeze. Maybe someone thought to insert this device for the utter torture porn shock value without really thinking it through, but it's just dumb. If those rings can't come out, then this is one of the biggest BS elements yet, IMO.

They could have used plain, old-fashioned medieval "Scold's Bridles": (Gee, am I glad I live in these times and not those)

[marinw]

I have approximately ten million issues with this episode, yet my biggest question is an engineering one: How did they turn the Washington Monument into a Cross? Is the new section wood? Iron? How does it stay up? Reinforced concrete? Support struts not visible from a distance?

Poor Lincoln! I’m Canadian, yet I still found the desecration of the monuments of what was formerly a Secularish Democracy distressing.

I know Ann Dowd is a great actress because I actually felt for Lydia, even though she has ordered the mutilation of several handmaids and done other horrible things in the name of Gilead. As time goes on she may find it harder and harder to justify Gilead. It will probably never happen, but Lydia could do a lot for the resistance if she could be turned.

Careful, Serena, the Wives may be the next group of women who are forced to stay silent. I get that some very religious societies compel woman to cover their mouths, but the ring thing is just pure body horror, and stupid for reasons other posters have already discussed.

Edited July 1, 2019 by marinw

[AnswersWanted]

6 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

The rings definitely pierce the skin, but so do all the bizarre piercings we see today, including safety pins and padlocks. I still say the ones on the handmaid have to be removable or else they would be utterly illogical and counterproductive in a society that cherishes healthy, fertile women. Aside from being rendered unable to eat at all, what about even simple things, like yawning and sneezing? They'd rip their mouths apart or blow their brains out with an inverted sneeze. Maybe someone thought to insert this device for the utter torture porn shock value without really thinking it through, but it's just dumb. If those rings can't come out, then this is one of the biggest BS elements yet, IMO.

They could have used plain, old-fashioned medieval "Scold's Bridles": (Gee, am I glad I live in these times and not those)

I think that’s it exactly, the writing team never thought we’d all think so logically, or so long, about this.

We were just to react like June did, horrified with hands over our mouths, and then the Swiss, Nick’s return, and CGI Lincoln was supposed to distract us later. 

That piece is similar to what I was thinking would have been a more believable option. A locking headpiece that can be removed, but does restrict speech when it’s locked in place and the wearer has no control over it. 

Again, there’s no question such devices have existed historically, but I have never seen anything like solid lip rings which pierce both lips and have no outward locking or connective features. 

They would be able to drink liquid foods, in theory, the rings wouldn’t restrict that bit of movement to part the lips to fit a straw in there, but as many have pointed out there’s no way that’d suffice for a woman meant to carry a healthy baby. And this is happening during a time when these women are mostly having so called “shredders” than viable infants on a good day.

And all the physical points you made, as have others, really highlight why those rings, removable or not, could still prove extremely dangerous and not worth all the potential risks to the handmaids.

Imagine a sneeze coming on and panicking as you try to remove three lip rings before your mouth gets potentially ripped open, or god forbid you get nauseous and have to throw up without warning. It’s a true logistical nightmare however you work it out.

These women are supposed to be kept alive, and healthy enough, to breed, why risk their lives on a stupid choking hazard? Or an oral bacterial infection? Or malnourishment? Etc, etc. I know they’re back to playing Gilead as a haven for handmaids and there’s a plethora of them around, but you still wouldn’t purposefully endanger such important members of your society. 

But I mean these writers have shown us before that they don’t always think through their ideas fully, so I’d not be surprised at all that this was the case here as well. 

It’s right up there with Serena’s bullet proof womb and Emily and Janine’s imperviousness to direct radiation poisoning. These truly are super women...

[AngelaHunter]

2 hours ago, jenn31 said:

I see, thanks. I hate when you have to rely on showrunners explaining it in interviews.

Until 'The Walking Dead', I never watched a show that needed a committee in an after-show to back-pedal/bullshit/weasel their way out of their goofs/brag about their cleverness explain the incomprehensible nonsense I just watched. Artistic license is one thing and I'm certainly willing to suspend disbelief if it's not too insulting to my intelligence. However, if any PTB has to present entire segments where they attempt to unpaint themselves out of a corner, they need to fire the writers and get ones who can put together a story that doesn't need pictograms and babblespeak later to inform the audience what really happened. Since I have not and will not ever watch such infuriating drivel, either on that show or in explanatory interviews for this one, I guess I'll never get the answers. 

[Anela]

There are too many shows now, where I'll google something about them, and you get, "Here's the ending explained!" Some shows deliberately leave things vague, but you shouldn't need an explanation for everything. I want to be shown, not told in an article somewhere else. 

[AngelaHunter]

30 minutes ago, Anela said:

. I want to be shown, not told in an article somewhere else. 

Exactly! In written works, "show, don't tell" is one of the primary rules. You'd think in a visual work that would be much easier to accomplish as it's something that can be done without any words at all, but it seems not. 

Edited July 1, 2019 by AngelaHunter

[marinw]

If the Canadians know about the Lip Rings Thing there is no way they would allow Holly/Nichole back in Gilead, where there is no guarantee she would not become a handmaid when she grows older. It is so ironic that young girls are treasured and women not so much. It would be different if Holly/Nichole were a boy.

The Canadians must also be rolling their eyes at all the sanctimonious praying. 

Edited July 1, 2019 by marinw

[Hanahope]

I agree that this entire episode was such a ret-con its ridiculous.  

Without Nick, Gilead wouldn't exist, he's so important, but for some reason he's driver for a "lower commander" way the fuck out in Boston.  and somehow the Swiss find out/know that he's some special muckity muck that prevents them from trusting him.

We're always shown commander committees in Boston and Lawrence, the "architect" for Gilead lives in Boston, but now apparently the real power is still in DC, which must have hordes of commanders to justify the hordes of handmaids that birth said commanders hordes of children.  Htf does anything get decided with that many chiefs?  And really, DC couldn't spare a few handmaids so that Boston didn't have to resort to recalling 2 colony handmaids previously considered unsuitable?

The oldest childof the DC family had to have been at least 6, yet the June timeline would suggest Gilead being around (with handmaids, colored clothes, etc) only about 4 (she had 2 years before the Waterfords, then closed to a year with them before getting pregnant, then another year pregnant/escape with Nichole).  maybe you can add another year with 6 months has a handmaid in training and 6 months with Lawrence.  So that means either DC implemented all the rules a couple of years before Boston, or the DC's commander "adopted" the oldest 1-2 children (stolen from other women/now-handmaids), and then still got to 'birth' another 4 or so babies.  Did Hannah appear more than 5 years older?  I didn't think so.

There's plenty said above about the stupid mouth rings that are ridiculous.  I'll just add that they must be removed in the home for eating and hygiene, but they made this handmaid keep hers that night because June was there and they didn't want any talking.  Still, what stops a handmaid from being serious injured if she sneezes or yawns while out shopping?

I still don't get how Gilead can be that scary to other nations that they would really consider forcing an unrelated baby to go back.  Sure, the US as a whole has a lot of weapons ,but I expect some were/are being spent in the rebellions that still exist. 

And I'm surprised there weren't more questions of June of how she's oppressed and literally forced to participate in everything.  

[doyouevengohere]

Most unbelievable to me is that june is cavorting around to go see the Lincoln Memorial all on her own with no escort or supervision so that she can encounter Serena (another woman) .  Also that Nick was doling out sweet nothings to June at the photoshoot within hearing distance of Fred and Serena. I hope Nick was just bluffing and told the Swiss to sell him off as shady if June asked so that their baby would be safe.

Edited July 1, 2019 by doyouevengohere

[rubinia]

 

 

1

15 hours ago, Umbelina said:

There were two hints in the "inside the episode" crap.

June, which addresses a frequent complaint here about her trusting Serena, will become

  Hide contents

more ruthless (or a word like that) she's over trusting anyone.

That's happened before, though. Every time Serena does her dirty, she's all "Oh hell no" and smirky by the end of the episode, only to have it happen again.

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, marinw said:

The Canadians must also be rolling their eyes at all the sanctimonious praying.

True for this Canuck. Religious fanatics frighten me.