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Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Final Countdown

scarynikki12

By scarynikki12
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KenyaJ

KenyaJ

(edited)

I'm afraid to get my hopes up that this picture is from either of tonight's episodes, but it doesn't even matter. Seeing Emily as Felicity again cleared up my skin and raised my credit score by 50 points. 😍 Best of all, I'm ecstatic that the wig looks gooooood. Like, the wig department outdid themselves. I'm so happy right now.

Edited by KenyaJ
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tv echo
tv echo

You're welcome, @AveMaria30! Thank you, everyone, for making this Arrow forum a place I've wanted to visit and participate in over the past several years. Although I'll continue to post anything Arrow

Velocity23
Velocity23

Seems Emily is coming back

KenyaJ
KenyaJ

I never had any doubt, but I'm so, so excited. Best news ever!

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

If Caity’s photo is from the finale, I don’t get why she’s using it to promote the crossover considering all the other photos she posted are from it. I think the most we’ll get is a Sara/Felicity moment, definitely no Oliver/Felicity or even Felicity/Diggle or Felicity/adult Mia. (Is KM in these two episodes?)

lemotomato

lemotomato

Let me get this straight.

Oliver's last last words were to Barry and Sara, telling them to watch over his family.

So Arrow then has E2 LL, who didn't know Oliver, who Oliver never confided in, who wasn't in the crossover and didn't know jack all what happened, tell Mia what Oliver wanted for her? 

This fracking show, I swear to god.

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Trisha

Trisha

Beth is sticking with the “Oliver’s crossover death is permanent” line: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/arrows-major-death-explained-crisis-infinite-earths-death-explained-1269787

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Walk us through the discussion and ultimate decision to kill off Oliver.

Well, it was definitely a decision that was made [a long time ago]. I know that Marc had discussed it with Greg and that is how we would end the series. So that's how it came about. And obviously this is our last season, so it all kind of worked out.

The character has been been brought back to life multiple times throughout the show's run. This is the one that sticks, right?

Yes, he is really dead this time. Because the whole point of this death and the culmination of what brings us to the crossover is that everything he's learned throughout the series and these past eight years has led him to this moment to give the ultimate hero's sacrifice. And that's his life — to save everyone else. That's what a hero does. His journey has led him to make that ultimate sacrifice for his family, for his friends, for the other superheroes. And it just worked out in the timing of doing Crisis that the story made sense.

Is the last we've seen of Stephen Amell on Arrow?

It is not. He will be in the in the series finale.

What was his reaction when you told him the news of how everything was going to go down?

He loved it. Stephen has always felt on the same page creatively as Marc and Greg in terms of that's the way to end the show. In our series finale we have the challenge of what is his role in the finale once he dies in eight? Once we came up with that Stephen loved it. And I will not tell you what that is. But he's he's been very happy with with his final season.

What, if any, feedback did he have when it came to what he hoped to see for his character in both his death and in the final season as a whole?

I feel like for the final season once we pitched him what we were doing, just the plan — how it was different structure, different than the previous seasons, and it was all leading up to the crossover — I think he was fully on board. Even when we first switched things up with the flash wars and season seven he loved all the surprises and the twists and keeping things fresh. He was completely supportive.

Can you talk a little bit about the timing and the decision to kill him off at the end of Crisis rather than in the series finale?

This is might be more of a Marc question, but to my understanding that was always going to be the plan: for him to die at the end of Crisis. But we had a couple more episodes left. We stated in season seven that he was going to die, and the only mystery or card to turn was when in the season is he going to die? And I think we all collectively liked the idea of it not being the series finale because we've seen that before and we wanted to do something different.

Also, he reset his kids’ future:

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What sort of larger impact or point did you want to make by killing off the character?

I think the way that it affects everyone else: He saves the multiverse. He basically resets the timeline for the future, for his future children that we've seen in the flash forwards. You'll see in episode nine that their lives are very different. Any parent would want to sacrifice their own lives to give their children a better future and Oliver actually did that. His sacrifice changes the future for all the different shows and his children.

 

insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

Honestly, don’t really care about the last two episodes. Sure, I’ll watch them, and I’m looking forward to seeing Felicity again, but I don’t care about anyone else really. Especially any of “the Canaries” for the potential spinoff unless one of them is Sara Diggle, to be honest. 

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Josh371982

Josh371982

2 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Honestly, don’t really care about the last two episodes. Sure, I’ll watch them, and I’m looking forward to seeing Felicity again, but I don’t care about anyone else really. Especially any of “the Canaries” for the potential spinoff unless one of them is Sara Diggle, to be honest. 

Honestly after seeing that Sara Diggle is now back. I'd much rather see HER, Mia and Zoe OR Thea be the leads of the hopeful spinoff.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

7 minutes ago, Trisha said:
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I think the way that it affects everyone else: He saves the multiverse. He basically resets the timeline for the future, for his future children that we've seen in the flash forwards. You'll see in episode nine that their lives are very different. Any parent would want to sacrifice their own lives to give their children a better future and Oliver actually did that. His sacrifice changes the future for all the different shows and his children.

 

His whole life is sacrifice. This whole show is sacrifice - this is absolutely nothing new lol. 

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Josh371982

Josh371982

(edited)

I have a theory for the Backdoor Pilot next week in regards to Mia. We find out shes with JJ who's now the Son Diggle would be proud of. After Mia gets her memories back she runs into Connor and of course she has the feelings for him she had before Crisis. Also I'm not happy that Fucking Laurel from Earth 2 gives her her memories back.

Edited by Josh371982
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lemotomato

lemotomato

11 minutes ago, Trisha said:

Because the whole point of this death and the culmination of what brings us to the crossover is that everything he's learned throughout the series and these past eight years has led him to this moment to give the ultimate hero's sacrifice.

Like what he was going to do at the end of season 1, and season 2, and season 3 and what he did kind of did at the end of season 6, and the crossover in season 7... but SURE. 8 years to lead up to this decision!

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Featherhat

Featherhat

(edited)

Eh. whilst his "death" might be permanent there's still a lot of wiggle room within that. Even without outright lying. And they've done that before.

E2 had absolutely nothing to do with anything in the crossover, she didn't know E1 Oliver that well and odds on never really knew anything about E2 Oliver either. She's dishing out advice to Mia because she's a snarky cool mentor who will become like Auntie Nyssa was. That's if it actually gets picked up.

I suspect Mis is engaged to JJ because "big post COIE twist"

I still really want Sara Diggle to feature in a potential spin off even though the actress I thought might be her is a Bertintelli. 

Edited by Featherhat
Josh371982

Josh371982

11 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Eh. whilst his "death" might be permanent there's still a lot of wiggle room within that. Even without outright lying. And they've done that before.

E2 had absolutely nothing to do with anything in the crossover, she didn't know E1 Oliver that well and odds on never really knew anything about E2 Oliver either. She's dishing out advice to Mia because she's a snarky cool mentor who will become like Auntie Nyssa was. That's if it actually gets picked up.

I suspect Mis is engaged to JJ because "big post COIE twist"

I still really want Sara Diggle to feature in a potential spin off even though the actress I thought might be her is a Bertintelli. 

What if that's a ruse? We find out next week that she is actually Sara Diggle? 

Josh371982

Josh371982

41 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Let me get this straight.

Oliver's last last words were to Barry and Sara, telling them to watch over his family.

So Arrow then has E2 LL, who didn't know Oliver, who Oliver never confided in, who wasn't in the crossover and didn't know jack all what happened, tell Mia what Oliver wanted for her? 

This fracking show, I swear to god.

Sara is probably responsible for Laurel being in Star City 2040 

12 minutes ago, Chaser said:

As eye rolling as I found the L2 voiceover, I have to laugh that the promo was all about Mia and how the city needs the Green Arrow. Canaries who?

Cause these Canaries suck! Seriously it should be A FTA spinoff. Zoe is The Canary if we must have one, Mia Green Arrow

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Trisha

Trisha

15 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Eh. whilst his "death" might be permanent there's still a lot of wiggle room within that. Even without outright lying. And they've done that before.

I’m assuming he’s stuck somewhere (paradise dimension, purgatory/limbo, etc) and Felicity finds him in the last 10 minutes of the finale. They made a point of mentioning in the crossover that no one can find people like she can, and in every interview about this season SA made a big deal about how Oliver’s guiding belief is to trust what she said in 722 about finding him again. 

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Featherhat

Featherhat

Just now, Trisha said:

I’m assuming he’s stuck somewhere (paradise dimension, purgatory/limbo, etc) and Felicity finds him in the last 10 minutes of the finale. They made a point of mentioning in the crossover that no one can find people like she can, and in every interview about this season SA made a big deal about how Oliver’s guiding belief is to trust what she said in 722 about finding him again. 

Yeah that's pretty much my reading. We know "love saves the City" and the portal comes back into play. I'm a little concerned about a "gotcha!" Olicity's reunion/Oliver actually ending happy is overblown but yes to us thinking that until the last few minutes. COIE with regards to Oliver wasn't at all surprising. 

With E2 not much has made sense since she took over E1's life an Quentin helped her and the other's didn't give a monkeys. So anything different for now isn't likely. If the show gets picked up she probably will get a different motivation/once again different backstory. 

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

7 minutes ago, way2interested said:

The promo from CW saying to go to the app to see the other promos. Did it have stuff from 810 as well? Like Oliver had a line in it and I think there was a shot of what looked like Oliver and Mia jumping off of a roof together?

I caught an Oliver line — something about the mission? — but not Oliver and Mia. 

way2interested

way2interested

8 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I caught an Oliver line — something about the mission? — but not Oliver and Mia. 

Yeah, just rewatched it a few times. Oliver from 810 (with his shaved head) says "The mission is never over," and a shot of Oliver and Mia (definitely Mia, the other person looking like Oliver hood up)  running and jumping off of a roof.

scarynikki12

scarynikki12

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Two things:

1) I hope we get a clear explanation why Siren didn't go home to Earth 2. She was so upset about it's destruction yet it was restored and she didn't return. And it better not be something stupid like "I'm needed here".

2) Maybe she's acting friendly and like she knows Oliver because hers and Laurel's memories really did get merged as part of the Crisis fallout and her attitude adjusted accordingly.

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

(edited)
43 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

Two things:

1) I hope we get a clear explanation why Siren didn't go home to Earth 2. She was so upset about it's destruction yet it was restored and she didn't return. And it better not be something stupid like "I'm needed here".

It isn't HER E2, arent they "new Earths" essentially. 

And it certainly looks like (im assuming from Cisco) Laurel has a device in her ring that can unlock memories. If they can replicate Cisco's powers, then J'onn putting his into a device seems like the go to.

But Laurels look in that black dress....with the hair...they need to style her like that more often while KC has this hair style. She looked great in that clip.

Edited by Primal Slayer
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scarynikki12

scarynikki12

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4 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

It isn't HER E2, arent they "new Earths" essentially.

I took it to be that the merged CW Earths included new elements but that the other Earths were fully restored. Which would include Earth 2 so Siren has no reason to want to stick around. All the posts are running together but someone speculated that it may turn out that going to other Earths is more difficult than pre-Crisis and that would be an explanation that would make sense. Then it's not about Siren choosing to stay here rather than go home but that she can't and is making the best of it.

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

7 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

I took it to be that the merged CW Earths included new elements but that the other Earths were fully restored. Which would include Earth 2 so Siren has no reason to want to stick around. All the posts are running together but someone speculated that it may turn out that going to other Earths is more difficult than pre-Crisis and that would be an explanation that would make sense. Then it's not about Siren choosing to stay here rather than go home but that she can't and is making the best of it.

I think with them now making Stargirl be on E2, it was to show that things changed? While they could play with the 3 Earths being merged is because of their proximity to The Montior/Anti-Montior, I don't know if it makes sense for everything to be restored perfectly outside of those 3. Hopefully they explain it....doubt they will but I have a finger im trying to cross.

Josh371982

Josh371982

6 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

It's interesting that TheCW doesn't have as much blind faith in GA&tC as they do in Superman & Lois.

Maybe cause they might have to change up Green Arrow and The Canaries and make it a FTA show? I really dont know anyone clamoring for a show with More Dinah. But then the reaction is probably mixed. Plus I remember reading talk that  Green Arrow and the Canaries might not even air until 2021 if greenlit for Series.  

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I think they don't have blind faith in GA&TC because it's a pretty shaky concept. The flash forwards were pretty much universally hated because they were so depressing, and while that future seems to be changed somewhat now, the damage could've been done in the eyes of the audience already (or they could be depressing in a different way than they were before). The three characters they chose to bring into it had shaky receptions at one point or another, and combining two concepts that probably wouldn't be able to stand on their own into one show seems like a recipe for something not great. 

 

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way2interested

way2interested

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

And a Walker, Texas Ranger reboot that they gave a series order to. 

Yeah, with a huge CW veteran too! If that and Superman weren't also on the table (along with the 75 other pilots they are looking at) GA&C would have likely already been picked up for series while filming 809, so less about not believing in that show and more of the desire to work with the even bigger IPs.

tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I'm willing to wait until next week to see 809 (the backdoor pilot), but one of my concerns about the female-led spinoff is that they picked three characters who are too similar - tough, kinda surly, and humorless.  It's almost like Arrow before Felicity joined the team, except Diggle was much better than Dinah or Laurel.

That's why I was hoping for a FTA spinoff instead. William would add humor (also, Ben Lewis is a delight). Connor would add level-headedness. Both would balance out Mia. Add in Sara Diggle and stir for a winning recipe.

Edited by tv echo
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

45 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Yeah, with a huge CW veteran too! If that and Superman weren't also on the table (along with the 75 other pilots they are looking at) GA&C would have likely already been picked up for series while filming 809, so less about not believing in that show and more of the desire to work with the even bigger IPs.

Unless I'm misunderstanding your argument, it seems like you're making the case for the CW not having blind faith in the spinoff (that it would've been picked up already if it weren't for the bigger properties and other pilots they're looking at)?

way2interested

way2interested

8 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Unless I'm misunderstanding your argument, it seems like you're making the case for the CW not having blind faith in the spinoff (that it would've been picked up already if it weren't for the bigger properties and other pilots they're looking at)?

I'm making the case that the not having blind faith has less to do with the concept of the spinoff (characters in it, FF plot, etc.) and more to do with the fact that Superman, JP, and Walker are bigger deals for them. Like, if it was the FTA show starring KM, BL, and JDJ with no Canaries and the FF were universally adored and the Arrow audience begged for more I think the same thing would be happening of the Superman show and Walker, Texas Ranger still being picked up sooner. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

7 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I'm making the case that the not having blind faith has less to do with the concept of the spinoff (characters in it, FF plot, etc.) and more to do with the fact that Superman, JP, and Walker are bigger deals for them. Like, if it was the FTA show starring KM, BL, and JDJ with no Canaries and the FF were universally adored and the Arrow audience begged for more I think the same thing would be happening of the Superman show and Walker, Texas Ranger still being picked up sooner. 

Gotcha. Your bringing up the 75 other pilots they have to review as being a reason for not getting a pickup already threw me off. 

way2interested

way2interested

2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Gotcha. Your bringing up the 75 other pilots they have to review as being a reason for not getting a pickup already threw me off. 

Ah, sorry. I just meant that as a hyperbole for the various shows they always greenlight or option XD. Like, with picking up Superman and Walker because of their bigger brands (and with Stargirl thrust on them) and other pilots they might try to push to diversify their lineups, this spinoff might be too much, especially if it ends up getting a mixed reception and with those apparent bts issues.

tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Posting here because we don't know yet if her character will survive past 809...

Who Is Raigan Harris? Meet the Latest Actor to Join the 'Arrowverse'
BY GABRIELLE BERNARDINI   JANUARY 14, 2020
https://www.distractify.com/p/raigan-harris-green-arrow-and-the-canaries

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The new photos of Green Arrow & the Canaries also revealed a look at a new character joining the trio, Biance Bertinelli, who is played by actor Raigan Harris.
*  *  *
Though no concrete details have been divulged about the show's new character, fans should expect there to be some sort of connection to Helena Bertinelli (Jessica De Gouw), also known as the Huntress. Before appearing in the Arrowverse series, you may recognize Raigan from her role in another CW series, All American. 

The 25-year-old's acting credits also include Grown-ish, Ballers, and The Dead Girls Detective Agency.  
*  *  *
While Arrow fans will have to wait until Jan. 21 to find out what will transpire in this backdoor pilot episode for a potential new superhero spin-off, you can check out Raigan on social media. 
*  *  *
Most recently, Raigan posted about the news on her Instagram Story. She also regularly uploads pictures from behind the scenes on set, cute outfit snaps for the 'Gram, and promotional clips of her work. 
*  *  *
While the YA network has yet to officially confirm if the vigilante superhero spin-off is happening, fans of the comic book universe (including us) are trying to remain positive. After stills of the backdoor pilot were released, Twitter erupted in support of the female-driven show.

Edited by tv echo
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