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Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Final Countdown

scarynikki12

By scarynikki12
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

After seeing that the episode was father/son focused and that Laurel gives Mia some advice, and because Stephen mentioned that Oliver tells Laurel that he's glad she's around (he didn't specify it was in this episode, but it has to be coming soon), I assumed that Laurel was doing some heavy emotional lifting with Mia since Oliver's load would appear to be with William this episode. Laurel is just not someone I care to see doing emotional lifting with Mia when the dad she's never met is right there, even if Oliver/Mia scenes are also included. 

I'll take back my pre-judgement from that reviewer's tweets and wait and see how it goes.

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tv echo
tv echo

You're welcome, @AveMaria30! Thank you, everyone, for making this Arrow forum a place I've wanted to visit and participate in over the past several years. Although I'll continue to post anything Arrow

Velocity23
Velocity23

Seems Emily is coming back

KenyaJ
KenyaJ

I never had any doubt, but I'm so, so excited. Best news ever!

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

For me, any sort of emotional scene between Laurel and either of Oliver’s kids just won’t work because the show refuses to acknowledge any of Laurel’s crimes other than Vince (and that’s even been written off as “she hesitated” and will probably be completely ignored as well to set up Laurel/Dinah as partners for the spinoff). 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

3 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

For me, any sort of emotional scene between Laurel and either of Oliver’s kids just won’t work because the show refuses to acknowledge any of Laurel’s crimes other than Vince (and that’s even been written off as “she hesitated” and will probably be completely ignored as well to set up Laurel/Dinah as partners for the spinoff). 

Yeah. Clearly I'm not opposed to redemptions since Oliver is my fave, but his past crimes are constantly addressed while he attempts to do better, and hers just...never are? Even when she had her little ~relapse they excused it away in-show that she didn't really want to kill Felicity, Dinah and Sara, just get their attention or whatever. 

I know we're never going to get this because they don't care enough about Laurel as a character to put in the effort, but they really needed to do some more legwork there, haha. Anyway...interested to see what her advice to Mia is, hope I don't hate it.

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

5 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Even when she had her little ~relapse they excused it away in-show that she didn't really want to kill Felicity, Dinah and Sara, just get their attention or whatever. 

This especially bothers me. Even if she didn’t mean to kill anyone with that bomb, she really had no way of knowing what would happen when it went off. What if she misjudged her “warning”? Whatever happened probably would’ve been ignored/excused away if the episode sill ended the same way, with her choosing not to stay evil. 

I will say it’ll be amusing if KC live tweets again and continues to ignore the kids like she has so far this season, even when she directed them. (Or did she mention them in 803? I’ll admit I only skim her tweets.) 

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tv echo

tv echo

Going back to the discussion of which episodes Paul Blackthorne could appear in, I agree that 807-Purgatory is a likely one. Also, he could appear in 809 (the backdoor pilot) if there's an E2 Laurel flashback scene.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

4 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I will say it’ll be amusing if KC live tweets again and continues to ignore the kids like she has so far this season, even when she directed them. (Or did she mention them in 803? I’ll admit I only skim her tweets.) 

I'm not sure if she did or not, I only skimmed too. I think she'll acknowledge whichever kids she has scenes with though.

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Velocity23

Velocity23

Just now, apinknightmare said:

I'm not sure if she did or not, I only skimmed too. I think she'll acknowledge whichever kids she has scenes with though.

The only interaction was that awkward video with Juliana and Kat on her insta stories where JH KM were supposed to praise her. Her live tweets ignored the FTA SL

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way2interested

way2interested

(edited)
17 minutes ago, Chaser said:

What advice had Laurel previously given Felicity, that would fit with Mia’s situation?

In 704 when Felicity wanted Laurel to continue to torture Silencer without caring if it killed her (Laurel said if they killed her they would have nothing, Felicity argued that they already had nothing), Laurel said that Felicity needed to take a step back and use her brain instead because if she focuses her sadness and grief of losing Oliver on anger and revenge that she would go down a dark path that she can't come back from. Since it looks like the team (or at least Mia) thinks JJ came back with them, I'm guessing she's going to be focused on killing JJ in revenge for Zoe because of her own grief, so Laurel's going to point out the similarity. 

Kind of redundant since it already sort of happened in 718 FF, but eh this one has added dead Zoe I guess and Laurel giving the advice this time and Mia I guess is Oliver who always needs these reminders

Edited by way2interested
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

‘Arrow’ Season 8 Star LaMonica Garrett Teases Oliver’s Reaction To [OMITTED WORD]'s Arrival
By Nicole Massabrook    Nov. 5, 2019
https://www.ibtimes.com/arrow-season-8-star-lamonica-garrett-teases-olivers-reaction-spoilers-arrival-2859644 

Quote

“Arrow” ended with a massive cliffhanger last week (spoilers ahead!). Oliver is in the present dealing with the upcoming Crisis while his daughter Mia was in 2040 and witnessed J.J. kill Zoe, who died in her arms. Suddenly, Mia, Connor and William are in the bunker in the present day with Oliver, and actor LaMonica Garrett, who plays the Monitor, teased that the Green Arrow will not be thrilled that his adult children have arrived.

It seems pretty obvious that The Monitor is behind the kids’ sudden arrival, so International Business Times asked Garrett why the all-knowing entity brought them to the present. Of course, he couldn’t be too detailed.

“Everything The Monitor does, it's laid out with plans that his ways aren't our ways,” Garrett told IBT. “So it might look like it's done for something that it's heinous, but it's all for a purpose. So that's the best I can say without hitting it on the head.”
*  *  *
That’s not the only issue, though. Oliver (Stephen Amell) might not be happy that his kids are back. He is fighting to stop the Crisis and wants to keep everyone he loves out of this fight. Putting his children directly in the line of fire won’t sit well with the Green Arrow.

“Yeah, that's going to be a big deal,” Garrett told IBT. “And you could imagine how something like that would make Oliver feel, like putting his kids in harm's way because that's exactly what's going on. But I think it's necessary. We'll see why later.”

While answers likely won’t be immediately given, Connor Hawke actor Joseph David-Jones recently teased that Season 8, episode 4, airing Tuesday, is when the story gets even more exciting. “I know the people are going to go nuts for episode 4. I think it's going to be crazy. I can't wait for that to drop. I love that episode. I can finally start talking about stuff,” he told IBT recently.

Expect to see the future crew involved all the way through “Crisis on Infinite Earths.” “The future team is going to have sort of a part to play in ‘Crisis,’ I can say that, and we're going to start seeing how things are going to play out for them as well,” David-Jones hinted.

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)
10 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

His wording is interesting. Depending on how you interpret it, SA either has already filmed with EBR or has not yet filmed with EBR. Although EBR was a series regular in past seasons, she is not a series regular this season.

Edited by tv echo
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Featherhat

Featherhat

They really should call the Legends, this shit happens to them literally every week. I mean I know they won't but Oliver should at least try to contact Sara. I get that it's emotional and shocking but after the first freakout, time travel isn't a sci fi concept to them. 

Aww, it's all so emotional. I can see Mia shutting down after this because of all that's happened, maybe that's the reason Siren gets through to her. 

Diggle's reaction was amusing.

William trying to figure things out like a mini Felicity. 

I had completely forgotten about Curtis being in this ep and I really don't care at all. 

I'm keeping my hopes up for enjoying a solid hour of all interactions and I hope the cliff hanger doesn't spoil it after last week's was everything awesome. 

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Trisha

Trisha

Now I'm betting the line about thinking your dad's a dick also goes to Laurel. And talking about her villainous past might reference the advice she once gave Felicity (i.e. telling Mia not to lose herself in the darkness of seeking revenge).

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

8 minutes ago, MISS1 said:

it's funny, I think many here forget that they all killed people at one point, and curtis is probably the only one of the team arrow not to have done it

Nah, no one's forgotten. But if you're going to show someone gleefully killing multiple people - like Siren did, and then try to redeem her, you kinda have to have her acknowledge that she was gleefully killing people instead of having an attitude about people aren't immediately buying into her redemption. Laurel brought up Vince once I think? Never any of the other people we saw her off, and she didn't even apologize for trying to kill Dinah, Felicity and Sara. In fact, Dinah apologized to her for doubting her, LOL. 

It's weak.

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Trisha

Trisha

14 minutes ago, MISS1 said:

it's funny, I think many here forget that they all killed people at one point, and curtis is probably the only one of the team arrow not to have done it

The difference with Black Siren versus most of the other characters was she did it for fun and/or because she didn't care, and she never seemed very wrecked or haunted by any of it. Remember when she killed a woman in a parking garage for her shoes? Or when she took down an entire building in Central City? Or when she was randomly killing guards to the point that the big bad at the time (Cayden James) had to tell her to chill? That's a LOT different than something like Diggle killing his brother. Even Oliver, who has killed a lot over the years, has wrestled with those deaths on his conscious. 

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calliope1975

calliope1975

I've seen Oliver put in the work to atone for his murdering self. I haven't seen it with BS. And she flip flops so much I have no idea why her Earth's GA would ever align himself with her after, what, a few months? For all he knew, she was murdery, disappeared for a year or so, came back and said she was good, so he was all - welcome to my bunker!? 

I understand it's ultimately the lack of effort on the writers to make any of this work, and I'm supposed to hand wave all of it, but nah, I choose not to.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)
3 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

Another sneak peak of William and Oliver.

https://www.tvinsider.com/829304/ben-lewis-arrow-season-8-episode-4-oliver-william-coming-out/

Quote

How long should we expect his crew to stick around?
I can’t say an exact amount of time or how many episodes, but it’s enough to make a really dramatic impact on everyone involved. I can’t wait for the fans to see these next few episodes, because every one of them feels so vital and important. Beth and the writers are really not f**king around.

So, from Ben's comments, it sounds like FTA will be returning to the future but just not for awhile.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Arrow's Connor Hawke Teases 'Big, Big Things' for Reunion Episode
by Meagan Damore – on Nov 05, 2019 
https://www.cbr.com/arrow-joseph-david-jones-connor-hawke-interview/ 

Quote

CBR: When you joined the Arrowverse three years ago in DC's Legends of Tomorrow Season 2, did you ever imagine you'd end up where you are today?
David-Jones: Honestly, no. I kind of thought I would end up being a member of the crew on Legends! So once things went in a different direction with Arrow this season, and then with the entire tone of the show, I guess, I thought I wouldn't really revisit the character anymore. So flash-forward three years later, I get a call from the production offices here at Arrow and they were interested in revisiting Connor and I was like, "Oh, wow!"

Would you like to go back to Legends of Tomorrow at some point? Is that on the table for you?
It really depends on what direction they take now with this spinoff that they're doing with the Canaries, because there's still a chance that we could see Connor in this next version of Arrow, this spinoff from Arrow. So I would not be close to being on Legends. I think, especially because of the tone and them being so self-aware of what their show is, it would be so much fun to be on Legends, or to do like, you know, technically something on there, some sort of appearance, would be amazing, but I'll see where things go post-Arrow.
*  *  *
What kind of role do you play in Green Arrow and the Canaries?
We don't know! We don't know. I'm trying not to give anything away or spoil anything, only to say that both parties are sort of interested in exploring where Connor goes more post-"Crisis." So we'll see if we make something work. It'd be a lot of fun to be in the spinoff.
*  *  *
Particularly last year, the flash-forwards were about legacy, and Connor may have the most complicated legacy of all these characters. How does he continue to approach that this year?
Oh, man. It's funny because we're essentially on a different timeline with Connor. It's like revisiting a character and trying to think, "Okay, what pieces or what parts of this guy are the same? And what parts are different?" So it's been about re-finding where I fit in with this new show and this new narrative.

It's difficult, because I don't find out till maybe like an episode before we shoot the episode where, you know, it reveals something. Like, I'll get a call and it's like, "This is what we've decided" or "This is where we want to go with Connor." Sometimes, it aligns with my own thoughts for him from before that and sometimes it's completely different and it's like trying to adjust and trying to pivot towards where the story is now.

I started shooting last season and I was about two episodes in before the writers and the producers called me and they're like, "Hey, we're thinking that you're going to be Bronze Tiger's son and we're going to bring him back in and we're going to change him and make him a good guy." So for two episodes, I wasn't really aware of what my backstory was, and then I got the call and it was like, "This is what we settled on." So it's interesting! It's an interesting reversal.
*  *  *
How does Connor's relationship with Mia continue to evolve?
Obviously, in these first couple episodes, it's still growing pains from trying to figure out what this new team dynamic is and not knowing how everything comes into play with it. So there's a bit of butting heads with coming up with plans and how it actually gets carried out. I think that in itself is a tough adjustment to make, and also to care for someone as deeply as they care for each other. There's still a lot of chemistry and a lot of connection that these two have. So it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out in the next coming episodes, because Connor really does care about Mia and vice versa. It's just hard because so many things are happening and it's all building up to "Crisis," you know? So they'll have moments, but those moments are short-lived.
*  *  *
What is your involvement with "Crisis on Infinite Earths?"
I know they're keeping everything about "Crisis" as close to the chest as they can. I can't say! You're going to have to just find out when "Crisis" happens. Warner Bros. will come after me if I say anything else.

Can you tease your favorite moment or scene from an upcoming episode?
It's tough, because the one [from "Welcome to Hong Kong"] was my favorite one to work on. You know what? I think overall my favorite episode to shoot, like the one that I really loved the most, is going to be episode four. I can't give away episode four. But some big, big things are going to be happening in episode four. The arc that the future kids are on right now is going to come all the way to a head in episode four. I cannot wait for people to see it. It's going to be crazy. So that was probably my favorite to shoot.
*  *  *
What would be your dream arc for Connor?
I'd really love for him to be back in the suit, and to find out a way to make that happen. There is a version of Connor who ends up becoming Red Arrow. Sort of similar to this Connor that I have now, he works for this government organization and he goes under the codename Red Arrow. So I'd love to either be back in the Green Arrow mantle or to be this version of Red Arrow with Connor.

Crisis on Infinite Earths will “change a lot”, says Arrow star: “We don’t know who’s safe!”
By pete   November 5, 20190
https://heraldpublicist.com/crisis-on-infinite-earths-will-change-a-lot-says-arrow-star-we-dont-know-whos-safe/ 

Quote

Talking to HEARALPUBLICIST about what to anticipate from the five-show crossover, Arrow star Joseph David-Jones mentioned “Marc Guggenheim [Arrowverse writer/producer] actually went to bat for this occasion… I do know followers are loopy enthusiastic about it.
*  *  *
That mentioned, the actor couldn’t completely quash fan issues concerning a few of their favorite Arrowverse characters…

“It’s going to change a lot,” he warned. “People want to know that the characters they love are safe… [but] we don’t know who’s safe!”

Edited by tv echo
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

10 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

After seeing that the episode was father/son focused and that Laurel gives Mia some advice, and because Stephen mentioned that Oliver tells Laurel that he's glad she's around (he didn't specify it was in this episode, but it has to be coming soon), I assumed that Laurel was doing some heavy emotional lifting with Mia since Oliver's load would appear to be with William this episode. Laurel is just not someone I care to see doing emotional lifting with Mia when the dad she's never met is right there, even if Oliver/Mia scenes are also included. 

I'll take back my pre-judgement from that reviewer's tweets and wait and see how it goes.

Didn't he already say it in episode two?

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

18 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Didn't he already say it in episode two?

"There's multiple times when Oliver looks to her and says, 'I didn't expect to be on this mission with you, but I'm glad you're here'.

I don't recall him saying anything like this, but maybe I missed it?

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Mellowyellow

Mellowyellow

21 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Didn't he already say it in episode two?

No. He told Laurel that he loved his chirpy bird and that they were epic. They're also going to change time and she will spawn Mia cuz Laurel is the love of his life. He had a brain fart during S2-7 with Felicity and severely regrets it. Haven't you been paying attention? What show are you watching?

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)
46 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

"There's multiple times when Oliver looks to her and says, 'I didn't expect to be on this mission with you, but I'm glad you're here'.

I don't recall him saying anything like this, but maybe I missed it?

Rewatched the end of episode two.  You are right he didn't say it specifically but It was implied.  He tells Laurel Tatsu would have been dead if she hadn't come back to fight with them.  

I still could swear he said something more specific to the quote.   Maybe it was a passing comment in the first episode? Edited to say no, he just said the city was lucky to have her.  I'm probably reading in to anything not negative he says to her, lol.  

Edited by BkWurm1
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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

36 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

"There's multiple times when Oliver looks to her and says, 'I didn't expect to be on this mission with you, but I'm glad you're here'.

I don't recall him saying anything like this, but maybe I missed it?

Any idea how many episodes they’d filmed/scripts he may have read at that point? Because I’d laugh if they cut it/them. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

2 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Any idea how many episodes they’d filmed/scripts he may have read at that point? Because I’d laugh if they cut it/them. 

It's tough to say because they gave interviews at the TCAs and they gave interviews during the shooting of this episode (and maybe others that we don't know about), and I don't know which interview that quote would be from. I can't imagine it's from the TCA interviews - I think they'd only filmed 2 episodes then, but I could be wrong. Laurel only really joined up at the end of the 2nd episode, so there wouldn't be time for this kind of sentiment to develop. It didn't happen last ep because she wasn't in it, so I feel like if they didn't cut it it'd have to be in this one?

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

18 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Rewatched the end of episode two.  You are right he didn't say it specifically but It was implied.  He tells Laurel Tatsu would have been dead if she hadn't come back to fight with them.  

I still could swear he said something more specific to the quote.   Maybe it was a passing comment in the first episode?

I don't know - the Tatsu comment doesn't really seem to go along with that sentiment IMO, and I don't know why he would've said it to her in the first episode since they were still kind of antagonistic to each other. Maybe Stephen exaggerated or it got cut out? I figured since Laurel and Mia have a chat that maybe she's able to get through to her in a way Oliver can't so that's how he thanks her? Although I feel like if that was it, the guy who reviews for Hypable would've mentioned it since he exaggerated their scenes in the first episode. Something like that surely would've warranted a mention, so...IDK.

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