Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Final Countdown

[Trisha]

Not sure if this is from filming Arrow or the crossover but it looks like we’ll get and Oliver/Mia scene:

[CabotCove]

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Yeah I don't think it's going to be called Canaries, since Mia is the lead and they've officially spoiled she's Green Arrow. If JDJ really is in it as seems likely then it's highly possible William and Zoe will be too. Without knowing if they are or not for sure it's hard to predict how KC and JH fit in. Mentors or 100% part of the gang. 

Yeah Canaries seems to be the working title for now, unlikely it will be the real name. Perhaps its because they can't use Birds of Prey.....just yet.....maybe never. The show has tried to get around this before , with using "Birds of Justice", "Canary Network", Canaries could be another alternate/substitute for BOP. Likely just a representation of the concept they are going for,  like a BOP inspired show without actually using the name. Maybe. 

[lemotomato]

56 minutes ago, CabotCove said:

Yeah Canaries seems to be the working title for now

According to whom? 

[CabotCove]

2 hours ago, lemotomato said:

According to whom? 

From the media  outlets like Variety and social media, so I just assumed it was. If its not, then I wonder why CW and the showrunners aren't correcting people🤔. Also Katie Cassidy hashtagged #Canaries #Arrowspinoff . 

Since she is one of the 3 people officially  signed on to the project, I assume she knows what working title, they are going with for now. I could be way off, but thats my deduction. 

Edited October 11, 2019 by CabotCove

[Velocity23]

4 hours ago, CabotCove said:

From the media  outlets like Variety and social media, so I just assumed it was. If its not, then I wonder why CW and the showrunners aren't correcting people🤔. Also Katie Cassidy hashtagged #Canaries #Arrowspinoff . 

Since she is one of the 3 people officially  signed on to the project, I assume she knows what working title, they are going with for now. I could be way off, but thats my deduction. 

If the title was canaries they would have announced Andrea Sixtos with the announcment. What its kind of obvious is that Kat Mcnamara will be playing the Green Arrow, so that title would be incorrect. Also Katie Cassidy is known to have mislead her fans more then once with the things she posted. We can also say that Kat Mcnamara only reposted the media who basically said the spinoff centers around Mia.

[Chaser]

I think she hashtagged Canaries cause that’s the role she’s playing in the Arrow  Spin off. I don’t think it’s common place to announce an unconfirmed title.

[tv echo]

[tv echo]

'Arrow' Season 8 Episode 2’s anticipated heart-to-heart between Connor and JJ is the scene Joseph David-Jones is most proud of
By Remus Noronha   Oct 10, 2019
https://meaww.com/arrow-season-8-cw-joseph-david-jones-charlie-barnett-connor-hawke-john-diggle-jr-episode-2-scene 

Quote

... From the synopsis of episode 2, we already know we'll be seeing Connor and JJ have a heart-to-heart conversation and in an interview with MEA WorldWide (MEAWW), David-Jones gave us a small tease of what to expect from that interaction.  

"Obviously, we're going to have some great things with Charlie and everything," he said while talking about the upcoming season. "And then in episode 2, the heart of it really comes out and we have this powerful scene between the two of us. I would say that scene's probably been my favorite issue. If not that, then the scene from last season episode 16, the one between Connor and Mia but I would say this scene is as strong and as contentious as that scene was with Mia, and I can't wait for people to see that that's one of the things that I'm the proudest of."
*  *  *
Connor and JJ form an interesting binary because while Connor, who is Diggle's adopted son, is a hero and an agent of Knightwatch, his brother JJ is the 2040 version of Deathstroke. David-Jones remarked that it is a pretty conflicting relationship, especially since JJ and Connor grew up together and were there for each other through highs and lows for the longest time, right up until JJ's turn to villainy.

"It's a conflicting one," he said. "And it's something that I haven't had the chance to play on yet in this universe so trying to find those moments, trying to establish and build a history with him has led to some great themes in this next season and I really can't wait for people to see it. You're going to see so much more of Connor than we did last season. I think we really just touched the surface in terms of his background and relationship with his family so now you'll see those things play out with these people."

Edited October 11, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Update...

Per IMDb, 801's guest cast includes Colin Donnell as "Tommy Merlyn," Josh Segarra as "Adrian Chase," Susanna Thompson as "Moira Queen," Hugo Ateo as "Alberto Vazquez" and Moire Kiyingi as "Receptionist."
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9695550/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast

Per IMDb, 802's guest cast includes Rila Fukushima as "Tatsu Yamashiro/Katana," Michael A. Cheng as "Shady Guy" and Paul Chih-Ping Cheng as "Special Agent 2." https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9700174/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast

Per IMDb, 804's guest cast includes Jamie Andrew Cutler as "Grant Wilson" and Kyle Mosonyi as "Officer N. Ferguson." 
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9700176/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast

Per IMDb, 805's guest cast includes Paul Lazenby as "The Machine," Claire Smithies as "Promoter," Kis Yurij as "Oleg" and Nicholas Dohy as "Crowd Member (uncredited)."
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9700178/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast

Per IMDb, 806's guest cast includes Bradley Stryker as "Vincent" and Leana Yu as "Laughing Woman."
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9700180/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast

Edited October 11, 2019 by tv echo

[CabotCove]

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If the title was canaries they would have announced Andrea Sixtos with the announcment. What its kind of obvious is that Kat Mcnamara will be playing the Green Arrow, so that title would be incorrect. 

Thats why I said its probably a working title not the actual official title of the series. I'm very aware that they have to take into account Mia being Green Arrow. Fair  enough, lets say for now  its an Untitled project. 

What is  official is that 3 actresses have been confirmed and announced together, that does seem to suggest that these are the 3 central characters in this particular project, likely why Andrea Sixtos/Zoe wasn't announced with them.

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I don’t think it’s common place to announce an unconfirmed title.

Point noted. 

Edited October 11, 2019 by CabotCove

[tv echo]

SA is still working on the crossover - posted yesterday...
https://www.facebook.com/stephenamell/videos/921995368181868/

-- SA: "It's Thursday afternoon. I'm in the middle of crossover time... I'm enjoying the crossover."

Edited October 11, 2019 by tv echo

[olicityfan25]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

'Arrow' Season 8 Episode 2’s anticipated heart-to-heart between Connor and JJ is the scene Joseph David-Jones is most proud of
By Remus Noronha   Oct 10, 2019
https://meaww.com/arrow-season-8-cw-joseph-david-jones-charlie-barnett-connor-hawke-john-diggle-jr-episode-2-scene 

I like Joseph but we never actually saw them grow up with each other. How is any of the fans going to feel a connection to them with these scenes? There's nothing for us to look back on. 

[Featherhat]

I do like Connor and I think both are good actors so the scenes should be good but yeah it would never have the weight of say Oliver/Thea really fighting or even Oliver and Tommy. (COIE would be a perfect time to make him and Baby Sara twins, just saying). I am kind of interested to see how JJ became so messed up but the Diggle Brother drama in S4 was not my favourite by any means, though in that instance it was an interesting choice to keep Andy unrepentantly Team Evil. I guess the twist here is Connor is the "good" adopted one. 

2 hours ago, CabotCove said:

What is  official is that 3 actresses have been confirmed and announced together, that does seem to suggest that these are the 3 central characters in this particular project, likely why Andrea Sixtos/Zoe wasn't announced with them.

You would think but LOT didn't end up working like that, nor did Arrow for that matter. It seems a high possibility right now but we'll just have to wait and see. A lot depends on where/when it's set. They're probably going to tweak Dinah and BS a bit because they'd end up filling a lot of the same role otherwise, especially if she spends a lot of time with Oliver and Dig this season. 

[CabotCove]

Quote

It seems a high possibility right now but we'll just have to wait and see. A lot depends on where/when it's set. 

True, waiting for information on that. 

[Velocity23]

6 hours ago, CabotCove said:

Thats why I said its probably a working title not the actual official title of the series. I'm very aware that they have to take into account Mia being Green Arrow. Fair  enough, lets say for now  its an Untitled project. 

What is  official is that 3 actresses have been confirmed and announced together, that does seem to suggest that these are the 3 central characters in this particular project, likely why Andrea Sixtos/Zoe wasn't announced with them.

Point noted. 

Honestly if the FF kids are going to be brought on board  i could only see Kc and JH in a supporting role, like they have now on Arrow. Especially since the characters would be in their 50s and i dont see the spinoff dealing with time travel. I could see them having a role similar to what Paul Blackthorne had on the show. 

[statsgirl]

They try to make all of the shows different even though they're all pretty much the same superhero mold.  Right now, Dinah and especially Laurel are much better known than Mia, William or Connor. The network may feel that the three kids are not strong enough to promote a show on

I can see the new show centered around Mia with the Canary Network as her back-up, led by Laurel and Dinah.  William can provide tech help, Connor is like Diggle and Lyla having connections with ARGUS.

[way2interested]

803 press release and pics

https://www.spoilertv.com/2019/10/arrow-episode-803-leap-of-faith-press.html

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ARROW
“Leap of Faith” — (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET) (TV-14, LV) (HDTV)

WILLA HOLLAND GUEST STARS – Reunited with his sister, Oliver (Stephen Amell) and Thea (guest star Willa Holland) find themselves searching through a familiar maze of catacombs. Meanwhile, John (David Ramsey) and Lyla (guest star Audrey Marie Anderson) partner on a special ops mission. Katie Cassidy directed the episode written by Emilio Ortega Aldrich & Elizabeth Kim (#803). Original airdate 10/29/2019.

[Trisha]

Sounds like 804 will be set entirely in Star City. Will be interesting to see how they explain why Oliver doesn’t visit his wife and kid. 
 

[CabotCove]

Quote

Honestly if the FF kids are going to be brought on board  i could only see Kc and JH in a supporting role, like they have now on Arrow. Right now, Dinah and especially Laurel are much better known than Mia, William or Connor. The network may feel that the three kids are not strong enough to promote a show on. 

I guess time will tell, but for now, these are hypothetical scenarios and assumptions. We have yet to hear, who will be part of the cast other than the confirmed three leads. 

And I think it will be highly misleading and deceiving for CW/WB announce the way they have, when their actual intention is a different premise and focus for the project. It will be a total lie, told to the media and audience. I have never seen CW/WB approach things  that way before , so for now I got no reason to believe anything other than what they have announced. 

Quote

803 press release and pics

This episode is looking awesome, more excited for this than the premiere.

Edited October 12, 2019 by CabotCove

[Velocity23]

14 hours ago, statsgirl said:

They try to make all of the shows different even though they're all pretty much the same superhero mold.  Right now, Dinah and especially Laurel are much better known than Mia, William or Connor. The network may feel that the three kids are not strong enough to promote a show on

I can see the new show centered around Mia with the Canary Network as her back-up, led by Laurel and Dinah.  William can provide tech help, Connor is like Diggle and Lyla having connections with ARGUS.

I honestly have my doubts when you see who the network uses to promote the show. Kat manages to get all the press and attention from the media while Katie and Juliana barely get anything beside the SDCC interviews.  The network does not schedule interviews for them like they are doing for the rest of the cast. 

My question is more if JH and KC were more ready to sign on the show even though they knew their will continue to stay in a supporting role, while other Arrow allumns declined. Its not like much will change for them. 

[CabotCove]

More Information is out on backdoor pilot. 

Quote

Finally, three of the women of Arrow — Kat McNamara‘s Mia Smoak, Katie Cassidy Rodgers‘ Laurel Lance, and Juliana Harkavy‘s Dinah Drake — are the focus of a backdoor pilot for a possible series to continue after Arrow is done. We have no title yet (we’re expecting it to be something like Canaries), and Beth described the preparation of the backdoor pilot at the same time they are trying to wrap up the series as “crazy, but really fun.”

“We’re super excited about the potential of a new series, and all of our kickass women. It’s been crazy, but really fun,” she said, offering that the spinoff won’t affect their approach to the 2040 storyline that McNamara currently stars in.

“We always knew what that story was going to be, and the pilot is its own kind of different beast, I would say,” she revealed.

http://www.greenarrowtv.com/beth-schwartz-talks-arrow-season-8-writing-without-felicity-the-backdoor-pilot/

Sound like a female centric show to me, and possibly a new timeline. 

Edited October 12, 2019 by CabotCove

[Velocity23]

5 minutes ago, CabotCove said:

More Information is out on backdoor pilot. 

http://www.greenarrowtv.com/beth-schwartz-talks-arrow-season-8-writing-without-felicity-the-backdoor-pilot/

Sound like a female centric show to me, and possibly a new timeline. 

The Canaries part is all Craig and his love for Canaries knows no bounds. Even thought it was already nixed he still belives Mia is going to be a Canary.  This is what Beth actually said “We’re super excited about the potential of a new series, and all of our kickass women. It’s been crazy, but really fun,” Of course they going to focus on the women right now because that is the angle they trying to make. But nothing actually suggests its a show about Canaries.

If we talk about female centric shows we have an example Supergirl. Which is nice as a starting point but that doesnt mean the leads are these three. It could just mean JH and KC might be there in a mentor role and i am sure the Canary network will be part of the female empowerment they will try to sell in this show with Zoe being the Canary that gets the main focus. 

The changing timeline was obvious once they ordered another backdoor pilot. They most likely need to fix Dinahs and Laurels SL,. Which makes me think that they originally planned someone else in the role KC and JH will be taking over. Even if its a different timeline, Mia would be around 20-25 years old and KC & JH would most likely be playing older characters. What they need to do is establish some kind of relationship to Mia or her parents, closer that we had in the show in this timeline. Especially Dinah was going off in 2040 claiming Felicity is evil and dead. 

[Featherhat]

It might be a very female focused show and KC and JH are fully equal main roles to Mia, but it doesn't have to be from what they're saying now. LOT is a very different beast to how it was first pitched. 

I wouldn't be in the slightest bit surprised if they changed the timeline but nothing in that interview really hints at it, just the "it isn't affecting how they write the 2040 storyline this season even though it's it's own beast" which could mean anything. If Connor is in it, it seems things won't change completely after COIE 

[Chaser]

Huh. I read that as they wouldn’t be changing the 2040 timeline. Who knows?

I have no idea what this show is supposed to look like but I keep going back to KP saying he had heard about a Future Mia Smoak spin off and when asked about BOP he said flat out No. 

[tv echo]

This quote made me think of a particular Stark scene in Avengers: Endgame...

Arrow EP Beth Schwartz Talks Moira Queen’s Return
Craig Byrne   October 11, 2019
http://www.greenarrowtv.com/arrow-ep-beth-schwartz-talks-moira-queens-return/

Quote

Earlier this week, Arrow showrunner and Executive Producer Beth Schwartz, who was a writer on the episode that took Moira away in the first place, spoke during a press Q&A about how special it is to have her back for the final season opener which airs October 15 on The CW.

“Moira Queen is such a dynamic character and her death still haunts all of us I think, especially Oliver, and I think that what we like the most about having her in the premiere is he now has his own children,” Beth — herself a new mother — said. “So to have his mother give him advice about motherhood to him — you know, now he’s a father — was just such a perfect moment.”

“I tear up every time I see the scene between the two of them, because they’re so great together. And yeah, it was [able] to give him some closure as well, to say he’s sorry for what happened to her,” Schwartz continued.

Edited October 12, 2019 by tv echo

[Chaser]

Please tell me that scene includes Oliver telling Moira all about Felicity. 

[tv echo]

How Arrow Is Using John Diggle And Bronze Tiger For The Flash-Forwards, According To One Star
Laura Hurley   October 11, 2019
https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2482124/how-arrow-is-using-john-diggle-and-bronze-tiger-for-the-flash-forwards-according-to-one-star

Quote

... Only time will tell if more characters from the present turn up in the future, but Season 8 regular Joseph David-Jones (Connor Hawke) explained to CinemaBlend that two present characters will impact the flash-forwards: John Diggle and Bronze Tiger.
*  *  *
The future timeline in the seventh season revealed that Connor rose above his status as the biological son of an Arrow baddie to become a hero, whereas JJ seemingly became a villain despite his status as the son of two Arrow heroes. Joseph David-Jones spoke with CinemaBlend about Arrow Season 8, and when I asked what it has been like to play with the expectations of the son of a bad guy vs. the son of heroes with Connor and JJ, David-Jones said this:

"In a different timeline, in a different world, I was JJ, I was the son of John Diggle. So it's kind of funny reevaluating who I am and where I fit in with this new timeline, universe. But there's so much to play with with that, and there's a bit of turmoil and knowing what is inside of me and where I came from to be the person that Connor is now. Because we find out that he wasn't always the person that he is now. You get to see that a lot in this season that's coming up. You get to see what went into Connor becoming sort of this Diggle-esque character in Arrow now. And also you get to see what led JJ to being where he is, and playing with that and working with Charlie [Barnett] has been amazing to sort of find that defining moment within that to bring these characters to life."
*  *  *
Joseph David-Jones went on to share how Charlie Barnett has fit into the cast and helped build the key relationship between the adoptive brothers:

"It's been great. A lot of the new people, we're still trying to find out what we can bring to the show, especially now that it's coming to an end. Finding times to meet and work on relationships with some of the veteran cast is a bit difficult. They all have so much that they're working on, but whenever new people come in as well there's a chance to really take time on our days off and work through these histories with these people and then personalize a lot of things. And Charlie works like that. He works very well. So we met up a couple times to sort of figure out our relationship because this bond that I have with him [as Connor] is the strongest for me in the show. I really did want to find what that was and how to personalize and how to really feel these things that I'm saying. He was amazing. He's amazing in it. You're gonna love him, you're gonna hate him. He walks that line pretty well."
*  *  *
Given that Diggle played a major role in shaping Connor on the show, I asked Joseph David-Jones if he'd met up with David Ramsey, who has played John Diggle ever since Arrow's pilot way back in 2012, about shaping Connor as a character:

"Oh yeah! We had talks and hung out a handful of times, but he gave less advice on my character and everything and more advice on the show and working as an actor in general. He's been doing this for a while, and he's gotten an understanding of the industry and he's creating his own projects and everything like that. So he's given me a lot of life advice. As well as show advice and character advice and all that stuff, but the relationship that I have with him is that of somewhat of a mentor. He's a good dude. He's a funnier version of who he plays on the show. That's the best way I can describe him. He's genuine but funny."

Edited October 12, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Here's the video of JDJ's Oct. 8th interview with Collider - I only transcribed spoilery stuff, so you may wish to watch the entire 18-minute interview...

Joseph David Jones Talks the Arrow Finale and the Crisis Crossover Event
Collider Interviews  Oct. 11, 2019

-- JDJ said that "they have a Bible of everything that's ever happened on the show" and mentioned that there are a lot of callbacks to past seasons that will be included in this final season.

-- JDJ mentioned being sad at times while shooting scenes because this was the last time they would ever shoot on a particular set. He then added: "But we'll see what happens with this - this spinoff show and how - you know, how many people end up being - yeah."

-- JDJ: "Without giving too much away, like, I've - 'cause there's so many Easter eggs in this crossover this year, I've had to like read my scripts with the Wikipedia. Um, and I'm just like, 'what is that?' (Miming looking back and forth at different pages) 'Oh, [unintelligible word] 75.'"

Edited October 12, 2019 by tv echo

[Featherhat]

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

Huh. I read that as they wouldn’t be changing the 2040 timeline. Who knows?

I have no idea what this show is supposed to look like but I keep going back to KP saying he had heard about a Future Mia Smoak spin off and when asked about BOP he said flat out No. 

I thought it could be that if there are changes to the future it was something they'd always planned on with COIE upcoming. But it does seem increasingly likely that Connor will be in it at least, probably Zoe, although I suppose he/they might not be the version we already know. It also seems like Connor is in the crossover from the interview bits that @tv echo described. 

I'd like for Oliver and alt!Moira to talk about Felicity, that would be a good way of including her in the scripts naturally. Sad we never got to see her reaction when they got together or meet Donna, that would have been a battle of opposite wills. 

[tv echo]

In case you couldn't tell from this article, this writer is a longtime Laurel fan who has written numerous, pro-Laurel articles in various publications over the years (btw, it seems like fan service is considered okay if it's something you want to see, but not considered okay if it's something you don't want to see 😕 )...

‘Arrow’ season 8 premiere screener secrets: Return to Starling City
BY JAY RUYMANN | 12:00 PM EDT, OCTOBER 12, 2019
https://www.hypable.com/arrow-season-8-premiere-secrets/ 

Quote

‘Arrow’ 8×01 screener secrets

Oliver, Diggle, and Laurel
Of the stars in the episode, the most focus falls on Oliver, Diggle, and (Earth-2) Laurel. Though the latter two don’t share many scenes together, the relationships between Oliver and Laurel and Oliver and Diggle are further explored and set the precedent for how “Team Arrow” is going to come together as Oliver faces imminent death.

There are a few truly heartwarming scenes between Oliver and Laurel that showcase the growth in their relationship since she first decided to put her life as Black Siren behind her. And, lest we forget, Oliver and Diggle’s brotherhood is partially where the series began, and the premiere highlights their unbreakable bond.

The Hood v. The Hood
Being back in Starling City, and paralleling the pilot, there has to be the “Hood” which was Oliver’s moniker when he first returned to and began his vigilantics on Arrow season 1. As briefly seen in the trailer below (at 1:59), there is indeed a fight between two people using “The Hood” to hide their identities.
*  *  *
A Black Canary comic reference and Felicity’s presence
Many Laurel Lance fans have expressed hope for years now for a scene between the Green Arrow and Black Canary where he refers to her as her oft-used nickname in the comics: Pretty Bird. Though it’s a bit unexpected, this nickname is used in reference to Laurel.

And even though Felicity Smoak will not be around this season due to Emily Bett Rickards’ departure, the premiere does not forget about her important role in Oliver, Diggle, and Laurel’s lives. One of the many callbacks is even to Felicity’s first appearance on the series.

John Diggle Jr. appears in 2040
As promised (and already told to us), JJ Diggle — revealed to be the leader of the Deathstroke gang in the final episodes of Arrow season 7 — makes an appearance and interrupts a team outing.

A life-changing finale
The end of the episode is, honestly, one of the most incredible things Arrow has ever done. It sets the tone for the entire season, and really gives the characters something to think about and something to prepare for as they try to save Star City one last time in these final nine episodes.

Nothing will ever be the same in the Arrow-verse after this.
*  *  *
A beautiful tribute to fans
Arrow season 8 is starting off incredibly strong with a premiere that has numerous callbacks to the pilot episode (like, seriously, so many it was impossible to keep track of). For the start of the final season, I was (mostly) impressed by this episode and how much of it was to honor the fans while still providing a solid plot and setting up the importance of “Crisis on Infinite Earths.”

So many familiar faces— including Moira, Tommy, and Malcolm — make an appearance in this episode. It’s so wonderful to see them around again as the show has never really been the same without them. And for a season premiere, I was not disappointed at all. This episode truly exceeded my expectations.
*  *  *
The unnecessary flash-forwards
The only really disappointing part of the episode was the future timeline. It takes a little bit to kick up the heat in the present day (which is totally worth it), but honestly, this episode would have been so much better without the 2040 story.

The flash-forwards could have waited an episode and devoted every minute of the episode to honoring the pilot episode and season 1, but we’re stuck watching the growing pains of the new team in the future after Felicity, Dinah, and Roy appointed them to save Star City now that the wall has fallen around the Glades. As much as I enjoyed these flash-forwards for most of season 7, it was really disheartening to see the time that was wasted on it when Oliver and co. are no longer going to be with us in just a few months.
*  *   *
Be sure to stick around Hypable for our interview with Katie Cassidy and our full, spoiler-y review of the Arrow season 8 premiere!

Edited October 12, 2019 by tv echo

[Featherhat]

57 minutes ago, tv echo said:

A life-changing finale
The end of the episode is, honestly, one of the most incredible things Arrow has ever done. It sets the tone for the entire season, and really gives the characters something to think about and something to prepare for as they try to save Star City one last time in these final nine episodes.

Nothing will ever be the same in the Arrow-verse after this.

I know I should wait and see and a lot of dire predictions never come true but pronouncements like this kind of fill me with dread.

Pretty Bird? Well it is an S1 tribute. Complete with referencing S1 Felicity it seems. 

[scarynikki12]

I expected they’d get to pretty bird but I’m thinking either Oliver says in that way where he seems about to throw up (eg he has to pretend he’s Earth 2 Oliver and that was what he called her) or someone else says to her. Probably Tommy. 

[insomniadreams88]

Thing I never needed to hear on Arrow: pretty bird. Also, I just don’t think it fits with E2 LL, as in she wouldn’t want anyone to call her that, so why include it? To make a small group of fans happy? I hope it’s nothing like those fans want and I highly doubt it’s going to be any Oliver saying it. 

[KenyaJ]

9 hours ago, tv echo said:

“Moira Queen is such a dynamic character and her death still haunts all of us I think, especially Oliver, and I think that what we like the most about having her in the premiere is he now has his own children,” Beth — herself a new mother — said. “So to have his mother give him advice about motherhood to him — you know, now he’s a father — was just such a perfect moment.”

I'm sure this will be touching, but it sucks that Oliver doesn't get to raise his kids because of this fakata storyline.

[CabotCove]

Quote

“We’re super excited about the potential of a new series, and all of our kickass women. It’s been crazy, but really fun,” she said, 

I wonder if she means there could be more "kickass" women other than three, also in significant roles, announce them all already. And full cast. 

Edited October 13, 2019 by CabotCove

[Josh371982]

7 hours ago, CabotCove said:

I wonder if she means there could be more "kickass" women other than three, also in significant roles, announce them all already. And full cast. 

I just have the bad feeling still that they will be stupid and not have William and Connor in significant roles so they force more of Horrid Dinah down my (and others) throats. It's amazing how tone deaf they are. From what I've seen more people have said they would watch a Spinoff set in the future starring Mia William and Connor. Not Mia Laurel 2.0 and Dinah

[tv echo]

Another 801 advance review (iirc, this writer/site has been anti-Olicity in past reviews/articles)..

.Arrow Season 8 Review
By Eric Joseph   October 12, 2019
https://wegotthiscovered.com/tv/arrow-season-8-review/ 

Quote

This review is based off the season premiere.
*  *  *
As you may have heard, most installments making up the ten episodes comprising the eighth and final season will revisit earlier years in a sense. The upcoming opener, “Starling City,” is a nod to season 1. In fact, I’d go as far to say it’s like watching the pilot and season finale all wrapped in one; you’ll see some familiar beats revisited but in ways that won’t make you think “been there, done that.” Once you tune in, you’ll fully understand the delicate balance that Beth Schwartz and company achieved.
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Now, it’s important to stress that I’m not at liberty to divulge certain plot points, though you won’t have to strain yourself too hard to figure out how Ollie’s able to find himself in parallel situations on a show where the concept of the multiverse has already been established. Just rest assured that, despite whatever intentional disorientation you may experience in the opening minutes, the Oliver Queen you’re watching is the same man you’ve come to know and love during the previous seven seasons. It’ll all make sense in context in very short order, just trust me on that.

Along the way, we’ll reunite with familiar favorites such as John Diggle (David Ramsey) and Laurel Lance (Katie Cassidy Rodgers), while others like Moira Queen (Susanna Thompson), Malcolm Merlyn (John Barrowman), Tommy Merlyn (Colin Donnell) and Adrian Chase (Josh Segarra) are utilized much differently than they were in the past. Some twists you’ll see coming, some you won’t.

If the premiere is any indicator of what’s to come, we’re in for the Arrow we’ve grown used to, only with a bit of a science fiction twist. With the “Crisis on Infinite Earths” crossover looming, this series in particular will play a major part in serving as prologue. Believe me, you won’t want to miss the closing moments of this bad boy.

Something else that amazes me is how this show hasn’t lost its touch when it comes to fight choreography. I wanted to take a moment to discuss this element, as it’s always been a highlight in my eyes. James Bamford, Stephen Amell and the rest of the stunt team never cease to bring their A-game. And when an episode such as this boasts Bamford’s name as director, you know you’re in for something truly special.
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When it comes to the flash forward segments, however, I remain highly indifferent regarding those. The unfolding storyline taking place in 2040 had its ups and downs during season 7, ultimately feeling disconnected from what was going down in 2018-19 and superfluous in the end. Right now, there’s still no apparent connection to what’s going on in the present and future, but I’m willing to give the B-plot a chance.

The reason I’m willing to do that is because I really want to see why John Diggle Jr. (Charlie Barnett) becomes the Deathstroke of tomorrow. Really, what causes the son of a hero to choose the path of the villain? To me, at least, that’s where the majority of the intrigue comes from, even if launching a spinoff starring Katherine McNamara’s Mia Smoak is the end goal.
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FANTASTIC
Even with the sci-fi twist applied, Arrow is still the Arrow you've come to know and love after all these years. If anything, it's already proving to be a fitting end to an incredible journey.

Edited October 13, 2019 by tv echo

[Featherhat]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

If the premiere is any indicator of what’s to come, we’re in for the Arrow we’ve grown used to, only with a bit of a science fiction twist. With the “Crisis on Infinite Earths” crossover looming, this series in particular will play a major part in serving as prologue. Believe me, you won’t want to miss the closing moments of this bad boy.

Still curious as everyone is mentioning this "mind blowing" ending that changes everything. I was wondering if it was going to connect to something in the future but that seems unlikely as more than one review says there's no connection between the two storylines yet. Any ideas? They watch E2 get destroyed?

[tv echo]

‘Arrow’ star Katie Cassidy-Rodgers hopes Laurel follows through on her promise to be a hero
Jay Ruymann   October 13, 2019
https://www.hypable.com/katie-cassidy-arrow-season-8/ 

Quote

When Arrow season 8 begins, Laurel Lance is working to become the hero she promised she would be, finding the line between right and wrong, and working to move past her old Black Siren ways. As previously teased by Katie Cassidy-Rodgers, she has a new partner on her mission to save the city.

However, that doesn’t prevent her from working with Oliver and Diggle on the former’s mission from the Monitor (as teased in our Arrow season 8, episode 1 spoiler-free preview). As the series comes to an end, I’m hopeful to see Laurel Lance become the hero her counterpart was and a crucial part of Team Arrow’s lives.
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As a fan of Laurel Lance, I’m excited to see where her journey leads her. The premiere does a great job at beginning the exploration of what being a hero looks like to her, and how she handles the responsibility of it.

We had a chance to speak with Arrow star Katie Cassidy-Rodgers about Laurel Lance’s journey this season, how she’s coming along on her promise to become the Black Canary, and how this new dynamic between Laurel, Oliver, and John will work. Read on!
*  *  *
Can you confirm that you’ll be appearing as Black Siren this season?
[Katie Cassidy-Rodgers:] I mean, again, Laurel Lance, Black Siren, Canary, the different roles that I have portrayed, you will see glimpses of them throughout the season. And I think this season really focuses on the entire show as a whole. And if I think it’ll be really fun because we’ll see familiar locations, potential familiar faces, and … I think they’ll really appreciate all of it. And if I can say anything to the fans before our season premiere, which is Tuesday the 15th, they should re-watch the pilot and then even the whole series if they can to really get to appreciate the show entirely and end this season entirely. Because it’s really been incredible and I’m just, yeah, I’m excited for everyone to see it. It’s awesome.

You have a new costume this season! Which one has been your favorite and did you have any input on this newest one?
My favorite costume is definitely by far this new costume. It really truly feels like the Black Canary. It feels like Laurel Lance. It feels almost truer to the comic book than we’ve seen, and I think that’s really cool. It’s been really, yeah, it’s been really incredible. I wish I had it sooner. So this costume is definitely by far my favorite, and I think it’ll be the fan favorite as well. And I actually did not have input on this one, but it’s still really empowering and badass to wear, and I can certainly appreciate all of the time that went into it in terms of designing it and putting it together. It’s incredible.
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How would you describe the dynamic between Laurel, Oliver, and Diggle this season?
I think that Laurel’s arc this season is really about fulfilling her promise to become a hero and discovering exactly what it means to be a hero. The good and the bad. I think that in terms of Oliver, and Diggle, and Laurel, it’s almost like they’re on the same playing field in a way. And I really think we get a chance to really see that. And I feel like she really is playing her part in being a member of this team. And again, going out there and feeling like she’s an equal. And I think it’s pretty incredible and it’s really fun. It’s been awesome.

Would you say Laurel’s fully redeemed when we see her this season or is she still struggling with the battle of right and wrong as she tries to be a hero?
I think she’s still discovering again, what it means to be a hero. And I think there’s still lessons to be had and she’s fulfilling her promise. But yes, there’s good, there’s bad, there’s hardship at times, and she’s seeing all sides of it.
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Will Laurel develop a closer bond with anyone in particular this season?
I think we’ll get a chance to see her develop a closer bond with several people this season than you maybe wouldn’t necessarily have thought.
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Where do you hope to see Laurel when the series ends?
... I hope to see her fulfill her promise as she is doing throughout the season and sort of to be in a position where she could do this — be a hero — given all of the things that she’s learned. I think that makes her strong enough to maybe be in a position where, whether it be her, whether it’d be her and the team, but she’s ready to be there and that’s where she belongs.
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You said a few months ago that you pitched an idea for a ‘Birds of Prey’ TV show. Were any of your ideas included in this potential spin-off?
Well, the fact that I’m a part of it and as we know the other individuals who are a part of it, I would hope to think that’s sort of the direction they’re going, more that ‘Birds of Prey’ type that I had suggested. And I think now, more than ever, is definitely a time for women. And it certainly seems that way in regards to what the spin-off is and what it looks like. But yeah, I’m really excited, and I think that they will in one way or another, in a clever way, incorporate that.

So, Laurel and Dinah will both be part of the spinoff. During Arrow season 8, will we continue to see their relationship grow?
Yeah, I think there’s definitely more depth there, for sure.

Edited October 13, 2019 by tv echo

[lemotomato]

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

You said a few months ago that you pitched an idea for a ‘Birds of Prey’ TV show. Were any of your ideas included in this potential spin-off?
Well, the fact that I’m a part of it and as we know the other individuals who are a part of it, I would hope to think that’s sort of the direction they’re going, more that ‘Birds of Prey’ type that I had suggested. And I think now, more than ever, is definitely a time for women. And it certainly seems that way in regards to what the spin-off is and what it looks like. But yeah, I’m really excited, and I think that they will in one way or another, in a clever way, incorporate that.

So that's a no. Doesn't sound like KC knows anything about the spinoff except that she's part of it.

[Featherhat]

She could know for sure and is just couching it as "hoping for" to avoid spoilers but it does sound like she's vague on many of the details and it definitely isn't what she actually pitched. I assume that one didn't have Mia as the lead character for one thing. 

I hope she isn't with Oliver and Diggle all the time, though it seems she is for several episodes. I still got nope!chemistry between them when she was playing BS in the few scenes they've had together before. I'd rather have had Sara during LOT downtime, more of Thea or Mia via the Monitor or Nyssa (of course KL is busy) if they had to have a female member of the team now Felicity is gone. 

[Chaser]

I could very well be wrong but I don’t think she’s in the middle batch of episodes much. Someone asked KP about her filming during ep7 and he said he hadn’t heard about her being on set since she directed. 

The whole interview was rather vague. It doesn’t read like she has much of a storyline besides ‘support’ this season.

34 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

So that's a no. Doesn't sound like KC knows anything about the spinoff except that she's part of it.

That whole part reminded me of KC pushing Oliver and Laurel when the showrunners had already left it behind. Makes me wonder if she’s going to push BOP, even if the show doesn’t go that direction. Also given KM is a lead on the show and it’s clear she’s going to take her Dad’s mantel, isn’t that kind of cruddy thing to say?

[insomniadreams88]

I think we’ll get Oliver/Diggle/Laurel in 801 and 802. Then Oliver/Thea in 803. And they may start setting up Laurel/Dinah as close friends/allies or whatever for the spinoff at that point and then Laurel will be part of the everyone who has ever even tangentially been DC-related team-up for COIE. 

[Chaser]

That sounds about right. I was also thinking it is probably going to be a Canary lite series finale. They are continuing in the spin off, they won’t need the focus outside of the backdoor pilot. 

[apinknightmare]

15 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Also given KM is a lead on the show and it’s clear she’s going to take her Dad’s mantel, isn’t that kind of cruddy thing to say?

I don't think she cares about that, LOL

[Chaser]

That KC. Always keeping it classy. 

[olicityfan25]

I just can't. She's so classless.

[tv echo]

I'm a little curious about who E2 Laurel's partnered up with in Starling City. That's the second tease we've had about that. It sounds like she's working with someone before she takes off with Oliver and Diggle on Oliver's mission for the Monitor.

Maybe an E2 version of Sin? Or maybe a new E2 Green Arrow (Tommy or Adrian Chase) because Robert Queen died? Or maybe E2 Oliver returns from the dead?

I still think it's funny that both KC and JH have said in interviews (I'm not referring to this Hypable interview) that they're Black Canary this season.

Edited October 14, 2019 by tv echo

[Trisha]

I don’t think this is a spoiler but just in case someone doesn’t know the premiere revisits the pilot 

[shantown]

21 hours ago, Chaser said:

That sounds about right. I was also thinking it is probably going to be a Canary lite series finale. They are continuing in the spin off, they won’t need the focus outside of the backdoor pilot. 

Oooh, I really hope so! I'd love to end it as Laurel-free as possible and the run like hell to avoid this spinoff.