The Sopranos - General Discussion

[Kel Varnsen]

23 hours ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

It makes sense, though. They voluntarily entered a dangerous life that had the side benefit of meaning they didn't have to follow the normal rules of society

It makes total sense and it makes the show really good. It's more that I was thinking how a lot of other shows would have probably given Tony a bunch of redeeming qualities to balance out his evilness. Like he would be really good to his wife and kids, or he would have a dog that he really cares for, or he would spend his time questioning if he really wants to be in the Mafia or not. But Tony does none of that which is why his character works so well.

[Kel Varnsen]

I have been watching season 2 and last time I watched it I don't think I appreciated how good Aida Turturro is as Janice. I mean Janice is also a terrible person, and super annoying but Turturro totally plays it so well. So even though she is totally different from Tony her type of crazy makes sense too. Plus in the episode where Meadow had the party in Livia's house it was hilarious that Janice thought her parents were being too hard on her, until she found out that the mess from the party would affect her.

[Stella]

Vulture has an article about Aida Turturro just published today.

https://www.vulture.com/article/aida-turturro-sopranos-profile.html#_ga=2.15913526.1213320747.1610221270-1340159597.1610221270

[Feech]

I wonder if the new film will bring back more interest to the show.

 I have been following the “Talking Sopranos” podcast with  Christopher and Bobby Bacala and it is very enjoyable. Especially the guests who are people who worked on the show including cast and crew. Very informative and interesting.

[Feech]

Who was your favorite character on the show?

I know mine was obviously Feech LaMana who based on an old time mobster from my neighborhood in Brooklyn. 
 

Feech was just the old type psychopath that filled the Mafia to this very day.

[Kel Varnsen]

On season 3 and my favourite so far this time around is maybe Silvio. It is hard though since they are all terrible people, but interesting as hell to watch. My least favourite is probably Carmela, although Edie Falco totally crushed that role.

The funny thing about Feech LaManna is that there used to be an online Sopranos card game you could play at HBOs website. Feech was a character there long before he showed up on the show.

I think one of my favourite things in this rewatch is all the dated cultural stuff. AJ was watching the X-games on tonight's episode when Livia died. The biggest one has to be in season 2 where Jon Favreau is just a small time indie director not an A-List guy who could probably get any movie or show made with a phone call. Although my favourite is probably all the Absolut vodka ads on Meadow's roommate's wall.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Kel Varnsen

[Feech]

The flip phones are hilarious.

[Feech]

Steve Van Zandt was on Talking Sopranos recently and said the character of Silvio came from a script treatment he had about an old time retired hit man who opened a night club. David Chase loved it but changed the venue to a strip club because a night club with entertainment would cost too much.

I think he reused the idea when he made “Lilyhammer.”

Edited June 10, 2021 by Feech

[BetterButter]

 

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, BetterButter said:

 

I mentioned this in the movie thread awhile back, but are they retconning Tony's age? All the press for this movie talks about how it is centered around the 1967 Newark riots. But there was a flashback to 1967 in the first season and Tony is like 8 years old. 

On the other hand Livia sounds perfect in that trailer.

[Egg McMuffin]

Tony was in high school in the 80s, according to The Sopranos Diaries.

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by Kyle

[helenamonster]

I'm so excited for this. The fact that it's Gandolfini's son as young Tony has me a little emotional, not gonna lie. He not only looks like his dad, but has his mannerisms down pat. And it's the only casting choice that wouldn't be controversial, if we're being honest.

Also very excited for Vera Farmiga as Livia. Perfect.

So I guess a lot of this is going to fill in the gaps of what exactly happened with Dickie Moltisanti. It's been awhile since I watched, but from what I remember, the "official" story (or at least the one that was told to Chris) was that his dad was killed by a cop. But it always felt like that was left intentionally ambiguous, and it wouldn't surprise me if that wasn't actually the case.

[Chatty Cake]

I’ve rewatched the series and also caught random episodes here and there they the years. My favorite episode was Funhouse. Even though they whacked Sal, Tony tying it together thru his stomach bugged dreams intrigued me. The way they all got together at Meadows grad party like nothing happened....

[Kel Varnsen]

On 7/11/2021 at 5:00 PM, Chatty Cake said:

The way they all got together at Meadows grad party like nothing happened....

The fact that these guys can totally separate the terrible stuff they do from everything else in their lives is fascinating. I just watched the episode where Ralph murders Tracee a couple nights ago, and the following episodes where they talk about how it was bad because it "disrespected the Bing" and how they constantly talked about how she was a hoo-ar as an excuse was brutal. Although I do love the reminders that Tony is a terrible person not just a misunderstood semi-legitimate business man who needs to hustle to get by.

Also it is weird back when I watched this show in my 20's I never really appreciated how bad Tony and Carmela's house looked.

Also the most hilarious thing I have heard so far is when Silvio is talking to Christopher about opening the night club. And he talks about how owning the Bing is not all "glitz and glamour". As if anyone could describe the Bing as glamorous. Because even for a strip club it looks gross and awful.

 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Kel Varnsen

[aghst]

During the original run, a lot of fans didn’t care how terrible Tony and crew was.

they wanted to see more people whacked.  Thy didn’t like to see Tony in therapy even though that was one of the original hooks for the show, a contemporary gangster, suburban dad, and mobster secretly in therapy.

in fact I believe in TwoP threads, Melfi and Carmella were widely hated, for cockblocking Tony from being Scarface or something.

Chase went to great pains to show how horrible these people were.  In one season finale, they had a montage of Tony having a big gathering at his house, with lavish spread and these gangster families having the best time, while their victims, those they were extorting, were living miserably, doing sex work and other unpleasant things.

But a lot of fans didn’t care, they floved the surface mannerisms of these sociopaths, the funny things they’d say.

[Kel Varnsen]

I remember that. Tony was a badass boss who was someone to be looked up too. Not a messed up psycho who couldn't even really live with himself. I also remember how people were so interesting in who would get whacked next not the whole story Chase was trying to tell. Which is another reason why I think Tony wasn't killed in the end, since that would be like giving in to all the people who just wanted killings.

Plus not dying would be worse punishment for Tony. He basically has to live his life always looking over his shoulder. His family has been decimated. At home he is stuck with his idiot son who makes Jackie Junior look like a genius. AJ will probably join the family business and will only be propped up and rise up the ranks because of his dad. Meadow went from being a possible doctor to probably being  her dad's future lawyer. Plus he is stuck with Carmela and no more therapy, so the panic attacks will continue.

5 hours ago, aghst said:

in fact I believe in TwoP threads, Melfi and Carmella were widely hated, for cockblocking Tony from being Scarface or something.

Well to be fair I hate Carmella (although she is played brilliantly by Edie Falco). Not for how she cockblocks Tony but because she is a giant hypocrite with terrible taste and an annoying voice.

[aghst]

 

[BetterButter]

 

[Claire85]

That last line about babies knowing things is genius, given Tony and Christopher’s futures. 

[hoodooznoodooz]

On 9/8/2021 at 1:56 PM, BetterButter said:

 

I cannot wait!!!!!!

[revbfc]

Yes on Krakauer, no on Melfi.  She’s a terrible doctor, and she kept on treating Tony in spite of allowing herself to get too personally involved/threatened.  She loved the danger of having him around, so that makes her “Good person” bonafides questionable at best.

 

[Stella]

Nice Michael Gandolfini feature article, if you can go past the paywall.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/22/movies/michael-gandolfini-many-saints-of-newark.html

[Kel Varnsen]

On 9/20/2021 at 5:39 AM, revbfc said:

Yes on Krakauer, no on Melfi.  She’s a terrible doctor, and she kept on treating Tony in spite of allowing herself to get too personally involved/threatened.  She loved the danger of having him around, so that makes her “Good person” bonafides questionable at best.

 

I was thinking of this discussion of good and bad people as I watched Members Only last night and I was thinking about Carmela's dad and the spec house. I am wondering was he a crooked contractor deliberately trying to cut corners with the lumber knowing his buddy in the building inspection office would look the other way (basically scaming his daughter and making more money on his end) or was he just an out of touch old guy who didn't keep up to date with building code updates. Because they showed in season 5 that they had architectural drawings, which should have shown the building materials. And if New Jersey is like where I live those drawings would have been submitted to the local building authority for review when they applied for the building permit. So what exactly was going on.

[ChicksDigScars]

Watching a lot of the HBO2 marathon. A season a day since Friday to get interest up for the Many Saints of Newark premier. It's nice to revisit these awful motherfuckers again. Pine Barrens was on yesterday. Hilarious to revisit Paulie and Christofuh eating ketchup and relish packets while lost in the woods. 

And my favorite, "Fuck you, Santa!" from the little kid and all crew simultaneously yells, "OOOH!" 

Of course, these bit of hilarity are mixed with the horrifically brutal Ralphie, and the downfall of Jackie Junior.  

 

[Kel Varnsen]

It is definitely better watching it now with a more critical eye. I looked up the release dates and I am pretty sure I watched seasons 1-3 on DVD or VHS when I was unemployed after University. Then I think season 4 and 5 I watched on CTV (one of Canada's major broadcast network) which would play the episode months after they showed up on HBO. Then for 6, when I was dating my now wife she lived somewhere that had HBO and she would record the episodes for me.

Season 6 is really good. That whole Tony afterlife (or maybe dream?) in episode 2 is way better than I remember. Plus I totally forgot that there was a character called The Hairdo, which is hilarious.

[Cupcake04]

Been watching the marathon on HBO2 and I had forgotten so much of what happened.  Certain episodes are burned in my memory of course, Adriana's demise being one, which was on yesterday.  But so much of the other stuff I had forgotten it is almost like watching a new show again.  Still can't believe JG is gone.   We are really looking forward to the movie on Friday.  Glad to see a review that said fans of the Sopranos won't be disappointed.

[Kel Varnsen]

Still working my way through season 6. Watched a few episodes today. It is kind of hilarious that Tony and his guys find out about Vito at the gay bar in NYC pretty quickly. But Christopher gets super high at the church feast carnival where pretty much everyone he knows is there and no one notices.

[LoveLeigh]

Can we discuss THE MANY SAINTS OF NEWARK at this thread? 

[Ottis]

About a third of the way through the movie and  bored out of my mind. It seems to be as much about civil unrest in the 60s as The Sopranos. Weird choices for actors playing younger versions of characters we know. Most of them don’t look like them at all.

Dickie Multisanti is an idiot. He drove right past a plausible reason for his dad’s death and instead did it in an area harder to avoid blame. Hope it gets better.

EDIT: Hope we can discuss this here!

Edited October 3, 2021 by Ottis

[MsTree]

6 hours ago, LoveLeigh said:

Can we discuss THE MANY SAINTS OF NEWARK at this thread? 

Assume so since U-Tube trailers and interviews about the movie have already been posted in this thread.

[MsTree]

IMO, the movie was good, but not great. Probably because we are all going to compare it with the HBO series. Also, because the younger version of characters look nothing like the series characters, it's hard (at first) to distinguish who's who. IMO, Chase should have labeled each (younger version) character as they appeared on screen (once), or have a voice over to identify each younger character as they appeared. The only younger character we really knew was Tony because Gandolfini's son (Michael) looks just like him and did a fantastic job portraying his father's character. And of course, we knew Dickie (Christopher's father) because the actor was featured in practically every trailer and did a lot of PR with Michael. Other than that, it me a while to get the recognize the characters...and later on in the movie, it became a bit more evident.

[Ottis]

I turned off the movie exactly halfway through and watched football instead. I don’t know what we are supposed to get from this movie, except that all the things we saw on The Sopranos were the same for the generation before them, including angry wives.

Gandolfini’s son has barely been in the movie so far. It’s weird. Though the funniest scene was with him and a baby Christofuh.

I’m mostly digging the Gil Scott Heron music.

The actress who plays Livia is terrific - spot on.

Update: Finished it. They should have ended it with young Tony waiting at Holsten’s. Not sure what all the PR focus on Gandolfini’s son was… the actor who played Dickie carried the movie. Ray Liotta’s character was actually wise, need to look up his role in the mythology. Uncle Junior was always an ass.

Edited October 3, 2021 by Ottis

[MsTree]

10 hours ago, Ottis said:

Not sure what all the PR focus on Gandolfini’s son was…

My guess is because this was his first acting job. And not just because he looked like a young Tony, but because he got the voice and mannerisms down pat too. For someone who just entered/started his acting career, I thought he did an excellent job.

[Ottis]

17 hours ago, MsTree said:

My guess is because this was his first acting job. And not just because he looked like a young Tony, but because he got the voice and mannerisms down pat too. For someone who just entered/started his acting career, I thought he did an excellent job.

I guess many critics agree. I didn't see it. He tilted his head once like his dad, and showed a slight sneer once like his dad, but aside from that, if you had not told me who he was or who his character was, I never would have made the connection. I think their attempt to show how some wanted Young Tony to stay clear of the family business may have made it harder to connect him to The Sopranos' Tony. He seemed pretty meek overall. Like I said, the only lesson I got from the movie was that Young Tony was continuing the violence that the older generation was part of. Now, the actress who played Livia? Spot on. And Sil wasn't hard to play. The rest, were hit or miss.

[helenamonster]

Talk about The Many Saints of Newark is permitted in this thread--however, please be sure to tag any spoilers out of courtesy to people who haven't yet seen it.

[qtpye]

Spoiler

 

Young Janice was actually quite pretty and sympathetic in the movie, though she did not have a big role.

I love Vera playing Tony's mother. She is a great actress and you see a little of Carmela in her.

Was Guisepenna stupid?

I was like, girl...this is not the type of man who will forgive you for cheating on him...particularly with the African American guy who attacked his crew and used to be his friend/associate.

 

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by qtpye

[Kel Varnsen]

 I finished my series rewatch and as much as I think it is open to interpretation, I really think the story works better if it is one where Tony doesn't die at the end. Like they basically spent the whole final season explaining how much Tony's life sucks. On the work side, all his closest friends are dead (Bobby, Chris and basically Sil) or have ended their relationships like Hesh. His biggest earner (Vito) is dead which means a serious drop in income. The only guy not dead is Paulie, and they showed in the Florida episode how much spending time with him would suck.

On the family side he is basically stuck with Carm and none of their issues are really resolved. That fight they had when he told her the spec house was going to collapse was as brutal as anything in white caps. Meadow is basically going to be a corporate/mob lawyer and told Tony that his being a criminal is what drove her to law instead of his preference of being a doctor. For AJ he will eventually buy him a club, which probably means a similar outcome to Adriana. Plus Tony has no Melfi and was so desperate for a therapist that he tried to take over a meeting with AJ's therapist and make it all about him.

With all that shit in his life being forced to live seems way more interesting and way worse than dying. Especially when you consider all the shit that Tony had to sacrifice.

Oh and with Bobby and Chris dead you know Tony will probably feel some kind of duty to make sure their kids don't starve. And if he doesn't you know Janice won't let him get away with it 

Plus from sort of an artistic thing, they showed in the coma episodes (if you assume that was the afterlife and not a dream) that when you die it doesn't go black, you go to The Inn at the Oaks with Tony B. And I know a lot of people like to talk about the guy in Holsten's going to the washroom was like The Godfather, but a couple of things. In the Test Dream episode, Tony is dreaming he is living that scene and there is no gun behind the toilet tank. And in the episode where AJ tries to kill Junior he talks about how that is his dad's favourite scene in the movie. And Tony says it is just a movie and not real.

Part of me actually wonders if the blackout at the end is Tony having a panic attack.

 

[Maysie]

We rewatched the series in late 2020 and it holds up excellently. Yes, the flip phones, fashion and decor are dated (and a bit cringe-worthy), but the story itself is timeless. And I could see how groundbreaking it was to have these characters that are basically irredeemable and compelling; the show really paved the way for shows like Breaking Bad and Mad Men. The writing and acting are perfect and I didn’t appreciate just how great James Gandolfini was until the second watch; he must have been a dream to write for because he was able to accomplish with a gesture or look what a paragraph of dialogue could convey.

I’ve been listening to the Talking Sopranos podcast and it’s fabulous! Imperioli and Shirippa are obviously close and they make it clear that working on the show was a highlight, not just for their careers, but in their lives. It sounds that the whole production was very tight and that they really felt as though it was a family. The podcast gives a lot of insight into the show and it’s very funny at times. Gandolfini had a big impact on them, and it’s clear that years later they are still feeling the loss. Imperioli referred to the day of the funeral as the worst day of his life.

 The Many Saints of Newark wasn’t awful but it was a bit boring and I ended it wondering why they bothered. The casting worked (I had no problem telling who the young Silvio, Paulie and Pussy were; the actors got their mannerisms pretty well), but the story itself wasn’t anything special. Michael Gandolfini was good, and I’m glad he wasn’t too front and center because I think it wouldn’t have improved anything, and from a more personal standpoint, I think it would have been even more difficult to take on an iconic role perfected by his late father.

On 10/4/2021 at 2:05 AM, MsTree said:

My guess is because this was his first acting job. And not just because he looked like a young Tony, but because he got the voice and mannerisms down pat too. For someone who just entered/started his acting career, I thought he did an excellent job.

Michael Gandolfini was in David Simon’s HBO show The Deuce. It was a minor but recurring role. He was actually good in the part-good enough that after my initial response of “holy hell that kid looks like James Gandolfini” I quickly moved on to “you are such an annoying little shit!!” He has a challenging road ahead; I think there’s going to be so much temptation for people to compare him to his dad, and that will be tough, I’m sure. I wish him well-maybe he and Wolfgang Van Halen should have a beer together some day.

[BetterButter]

‘The Sopranos’: WarnerMedia In Talks With David Chase About HBO Max Prequel Series

[Kel Varnsen]

38 minutes ago, BetterButter said:

‘The Sopranos’: WarnerMedia In Talks With David Chase About HBO Max Prequel Series

I saw that on AV club and like the idea of a series more than the movie. It would be interesting to see Harold's relationship with the family.  Hopefully they can keep most or all of the movie cast, especially Vera Farmiga. 

But I have to wonder if they make this into a series who do you get to play Tony B? The casting was one of the best parts of the movies and super impressive in more than one case. But who do you get to play a young Steve Buscemi? Does he happen to have a kid around the same age as Michael Gandolfini?

[aghst]

Wonder if Chase has the desire or the energy to do a series.

[Kel Varnsen]

3 minutes ago, aghst said:

Wonder if Chase has the desire or the energy to do a series.

He signed that 5 year deal with Warner so I would assume he has some level of interest in doing it. I doubt he signed that deal expecting to write a DC movie.

[Egg McMuffin]

Sopranos Babies! It takes place at a daycare center. Little Tony is a bully, while Little Carmela is willing to sell out her principles in order to get the next shiny new toy.

[helenamonster]

 

[Tachi Rocinante]

Many Saints was OK.  By the middle I kinda lost interest and was just trying to figure out who everyone was.

• Spoiler

   

  • Michael Imperioli's voiceover was near unrecognizable because he dropped the Jersey twang
  • If Christopher's Mom couldn't get pregnant, did they adopt or did they finally have success? They glossed over that.
  • Carmela was in it for ten seconds and they mentioned Hesh
  • Vera Farmiga was very good, but John Magaro (young Silvio) was awful

   

   

Edited November 1, 2021 by Tachi Rocinante

[qtpye]

4 hours ago, Tachi Rocinante said:

Many Saints was OK.  By the middle I kinda lost interest and was just trying to figure out who everyone was.

•   Hide contents

   

  • Michael Imperioli's voiceover was near unrecognizable because he dropped the Jersey twang
  • If Christopher's Mom couldn't get pregnant, did they adopt or did they finally have success? They glossed over that.
  • Carmela was in it for ten seconds and they mentioned Hesh
  • Vera Farmiga was very good, but John Magaro (young Silvio) was awful

   

   

Spoiler

When we saw a very pretty lady from Italy with a big nose...I swear I thought that was going to be Christopher's real mother.

After some time, I can finally say that I found the movie disappointing. Yes, the main character was handsome but the whole "gangsters are horrible people who have families" has been done to death and does feel particularly fresh.

I do not think the racial element was well integrated. When the African American guys walked in and that one guy (Buddha?) started running in place and yelled "white flight", I cringed.

I also hated it when the girlfriend told him about her cheating at a perfect place for him to drown her. It was too contrived.

The only interesting part was young Tony and they did not tell us anything we had not already figured out from the original series.

The main rule of prequels is that we are given a piece of the puzzle that was previously unknown which changes the way we understand the fictional world. This movie was truly kind of pointless.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

13 minutes ago, qtpye said:

  Hide contents

. also hated it when the girlfriend told him about her cheating at a perfect place for him to drown her. It was too contrived.

The only interesting part was young Tony and they did not tell us anything we had not already figured out from the original series.

 

Spoiler

 

I thought the drowning looked good, but I didn't really understand why or how Dickie's mistress got together with Harold.

As for the Tony stuff it really seemed like his entire story was in the trailers.

 

 

[qtpye]

1 minute ago, Kel Varnsen said:

  Hide contents

 

I thought the drowning looked good, but I didn't really understand why or how Dickie's mistress got together with Harold.

As for the Tony stuff it really seemed like his entire story was in the trailers.

 

 

Spoiler

Honestly, I did not understand why the Hell Tony would choose this life when he sees his beloved uncle die in his prime. The same uncle will never see his long-awaited son (Christopher) grow up. I know that it might be all the kid knew and therefore did not have a choice but this type of lifestyle either leads to being murdered or ending up in jail.

I just did not think the movie had the time to get into the complexities and therefore felt a little unsatisfying. 

 

[MsTree]

Other than Tony, I spent the better part of the movie trying to figure out who was who. Any sort of "introduction" via voice over or caption, as the characters were introduced, would have been extremely helpful. 

[qtpye]

11 hours ago, MsTree said:

Other than Tony, I spent the better part of the movie trying to figure out who was who. Any sort of "introduction" via voice over or caption, as the characters were introduced, would have been extremely helpful. 

It was almost like Chase did not want to do a Sopranos movie at all but the network forced him to include characters besides young Tony for the fan appeal.

So, we get these throwaway scenes and wonder "Who the Hell was that supposed to be?"