Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (2019)

[Anduin]

5 hours ago, ursula said:

Kylo is charging at someone with his lightsaber on and... body slams said person to the ground when he could have just run him through?

Rey sees/senses the Tie approaching so she runs forward then flips back... when visually, it would have made more sense to charge at it?

He stabs the person with one of the side blades. But this is a trailer, there might be a another shot from a different angle to explain it.

As for Rey, yeah, it's an interesting choice. But IMO it looks cool, and I enjoy a bit of ridiculous but cool now and then. Frankly, it isn't the only example. Yoda vs Dooku is the prime example. 🙂

[Wynterwolf]

5 hours ago, ursula said:

and not just a Force Ghost

I've been seeing a lot of discussion about this, and I think especially after Yoda in TFA, the concept of a Force Ghost is evolving. 

Obi Wan was just kind of a disembodied voice in Luke's head, and eventually we saw Anakin, Yoda and Obi Wan as glowy figures looking on at the next generation benevolently.  But in TFA, Yoda was actually able to impact the physical world and I doubt that's the limit of what he can do.  But up to this point, we've only seen 'good guys' as Force Ghosts, so an interesting question could be:  What would an evil Force Ghost do, and how would those in the physical world deal with that?  And what help could 'good' Force Ghosts be? 

Luke's voice-over said, "We've passed on all we know, a thousand generations live in you now" to Rey, so it might be that Rey (likely eventually with Kylo's help once he fully realizes just how much of a cruel, foolish, narcissistic child he's been, and that he was manipulated every step of the way by an evil megalomaniac) is the only one who can defeat Palpatine's presence in the physical world.  So basically, it could be an episode of Supernatural, just in space.  🙂

eta:  Also, I like the idea of Rey being adopted into Clan Skywalker, because "family don't end with blood" (thank you, Bobby).  And I'm a total sucker for found family themes.  

Edited April 13, 2019 by Wynterwolf

[Morrigan2575]

27 minutes ago, Anduin said:

But this is a trailer, there might be a another shot from a different angle to explain it.

It's not even a trailer, it's a teaser trailer, designed to tease us with cool images and make us question/talk about it for the next 7 months.😁

[BooBear]

6 hours ago, ursula said:

Palpatine (apparently he has a first name now?  I always figured Palpatine was a title name like Amidala was?) fell flat for me. If he's really alive and not just a Force Ghost or vision, that's yet the final f**k you straw to the OT heroes.

It could, if done wrong, undercut all the stories. The prequel, OT, etc would have all fought, suffered, and died for nothing. I hope it is done correctly.  For if what Luke says in the clip is correct "nothing ever really dies" are we doomed to fight these same battles over and over again? That might be great for Disney's bottom line but not the audience so much.

However, if it was presented in a "you didn't really think it would be that easy did you?" way, and if Ray's Mary Sue-ness is connected to Palpatine still being alive and a massive dark side threat way bigger than Kylo.. I think it could be done right.  

[Spartan Girl]

I don't want Kylo to have redemption. He has had AMPLE chances for redemption, even after he killed Han, and he's pissed them all away. Screw him.

[Wynterwolf]

Rey = Luke

Finn&Poe = Han&Leia

Kylo = Anakin

Palpatine =... Palpatine

22 minutes ago, BooBear said:

For if what Luke says in the clip is correct "nothing ever really dies" are we doomed to fight these same battles over and over again?

I mean kinda, yeah.  "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."  Which, ** looks around at the real world right now**... ah, yeah.

I was very anti-redemption for Kylo, but with the confirmed presence of Palpatine, I fully expect Kylo to be, not redeemed exactly, but maybe reclaimed by his 'family' by the end.  But he has to have all his hubris and delusions stripped completely bare for that to happen effectively, so we'll see how far down they take him.  

[VCRTracking]

7 hours ago, ursula said:

Kylo is charging at someone with his lightsaber on and... body slams said person to the ground when he could have just run him through?

He stabs him with his crossguard.

7 hours ago, ursula said:

If he's really alive and not just a Force Ghost or vision, that's yet the final f**k you straw to the OT heroes. They literally won no victories. The new Jedi Order. The New Republic. The elimination of the Sith. These were supposed to be the OT's victories and they failed at all of them. 

He's been brought back in various forms in the EU. My thought is this is a man who manipulated the Jedi, Republic Senate, Trade Federation and various other factions into putting him into power, making him dictator and in control of a vast army, turning that army against the Jedi and forming an Empire. OF COURSE he would have a backup plan in case something happens to him and find a way to come back.

 

Edited April 13, 2019 by VCRTracking

[VCRTracking]

1 hour ago, VCRTracking said:

He stabs him with his crossguard.

He's been brought back in various forms in the EU. My thought is this is a man who manipulated the Jedi, Republic Senate, Trade Federation and various other factions into putting him into power, making him dictator and in control of a vast army, turning that army against the Jedi and forming an Empire. OF COURSE he would have a backup plan in case something happens to him and find a way to come back.

 

[Wynterwolf]

[scarynikki12]

Right now I'm leaning towards Rey going through the trials to explain the scene vs the fighter and potentially the Palpatine stuff.  She's already completed the "make a lightsaber" one since Luke's is repaired, so they may open the movie with her only having a few left.  If the laugh and whatever other Palpatine stuff are not related to the trials, or visions, or whatever, then the visit to the remains of Death Star 2 on Endor may turn out to be where the final confrontation takes place a la Episode 6.  I'm on the fence as to if Palpatine even has the capability of coming back as a Force Ghost, since that's been shown to be something the good characters can do (and was the final bit of proof that Luke's faith that he could turn Vader back into Anakin was correct).  On the other hand he was the most powerful Sith ever so it's possible that he was able to do the Sith version and it won't be exactly like the Obi Won, Yoda, Anakin, and (I assume) Luke Force Ghosts.  For all we know Snoke was the Sith equivalent of a Force Ghost and that's why we have no backstory on where he came from, how he was able to corrupt Ben and the others, etc. 

Rey hugging Leia has me more convinced than ever that the movie will open with the reveal that she's already passed and Carrie's final scenes will be presented as memories and/or visions. 

[VCRTracking]

This article from last February about Lucas' original plans after Star Wars first came out according to producer Gary Kurtz:
 

Quote

Episode I was to focus on the origins of the Jedi Knights and how they are initiated and trained.

Episode II would introduce and develop Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Episode III was the introduction and life of Darth Vader.

Episode IV was Star Wars: A New Hope.

Episode V was The Empire Strikes Back, largely the final theatrical cut.

Episode VI would end with Luke confronting Vader and leaving to live a solitary life. Leia would be elected Queen of her people, leaving her isolated and alone, while Han would die.

Episode VII was to focus on Luke's life as a Jedi, with very little detail planned out.

Episode VIII would see Luke's sister appear from another part of the galaxy.

Episode IX would be the defeat of the Emperor, with Kurtz implying that Luke would have been a major part of this final battle.

If this is correct pretty much a lot changed once Lucas changed Vader to be Luke's father during the writing of Empire. The prequels now focused on Anakin/Vader and the middle trilogy became about redeeming him.

[Wynterwolf]

15 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

Rey hugging Leia has me more convinced than ever that the movie will open with the reveal that she's already passed and Carrie's final scenes will be presented as memories and/or visions.

I could definitely see that as a viable possibility, especially since JJ said that some significant time has passed between when the last movie ended, and when this one starts.  

But the cast has been talking about how this is about the team working together, so I think Rey will have already done as much training as she can (and Luke will have done as much as he can to prepare her), and this is going to be more about how she handles herself when shit gets real (and the Emperor finally makes his move).  

Then it can be about what George intended:  the final take down of Palpatine, just with an extremely different team.    

Edited April 13, 2019 by Wynterwolf

[Anduin]

6 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

It's not even a trailer, it's a teaser trailer, designed to tease us with cool images and make us question/talk about it for the next 7 months.😁

Exactly. And it's working. 🙂

[Wynterwolf]

I...may have watched the teaser a, erm, few times and it strikes me that in the part where Rey turns around and starts running in the same direction as the fighter, that's what you do when you're trying to jump onto something that is traveling really fast, get your own momentum going in the same direction and then jump.  I think she's trying to get on top of it so she can maybe get inside?  But yeah, it looks totally badass either way.  And my god, Daisy is beautiful.  

I also love the juxtaposition of Lando's joyful laugh, as he pilots the Falcon to Palpatine's EVOL cackle at the end... two ends of the spectrum.  

And the shot of them coming up on the wrecked Death Star definitely give me a band of fighters on a quest vibe.  

[Anduin]

6 minutes ago, Wynterwolf said:

I...may have watched the teaser a, erm, few times and it strikes me that in the part where Rey turns around and starts running in the same direction as the fighter, that's what you do when you're trying to jump onto something that is traveling really fast, get your own momentum going in the same direction and then jump.  I think she's trying to get on top of it so she can maybe get inside?  But yeah, it looks totally badass either way.  And my god, Daisy is beautiful.  

And the shot of them coming up on the wrecked Death Star definitely give me a band of fighters on a quest vibe.  

Interesting. I'm not one for going outside much, WTF would I know about leaping onto a moving vehicle? Thanks for that.

And yes, I get that feeling too. Come on, December, hurry up.

[Perfect Xero]

Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens

Star Wars Episode VIII: Fuck You, JJ

Star Wars Episode IX: No, Fuck You, Rian

[Anduin]

I wonder if that's even Ren in the fighter. We see familiar gloves, but no face. He goes helmetless later in the teaser, that can't be the hesitation. Maybe it's someone else. Maybe it's Keri Russel.

We have a bunch of known Resistance members. Leia, Chewie, Rey, Finn, Poe, Rose, Connix, Lando. We need someone on the FO side outside Ren and Hux.

[VCRTracking]

1 minute ago, VCRTracking said:

[ursula]

14 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

My thought is this is a man who manipulated the Jedi, Republic Senate, Trade Federation and various other factions into putting him into power, making him dictator and in control of a vast army, turning that army against the Jedi and forming an Empire. OF COURSE he would have a backup plan in case something happens to him and find a way to come back.

And that argument would be a 1,000 times more convincing if it had been made anytime before the release of this trailer when the biggest pro-TLJ mantra was "let the past die".

And as I said earlier, Palpatine's survival is just the last/most recent of the OT's failures. Luke failed to re-establish the Jedi. Leia failed to re-establish the Republic. Han failed to be a better man. The Resistance/Republic failed to oust the remnants of the Empire. Han and Leia failed to have a happy ending. It's not Palpatine's survival in isolation that is the problem. It's just that if he has, it would complete the circuit of failures. Our heroes achieved nothing and that leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

[VCRTracking]

15 minutes ago, ursula said:

And that argument would be a 1,000 times more convincing if it had been made anytime before the release of this trailer when the biggest pro-TLJ mantra was "let the past die". 

And as I said earlier, Palpatine's survival is just the last/most recent of the OT's failures. Luke failed to re-establish the Jedi. Leia failed to re-establish the Republic. Han failed to be a better man. The Resistance/Republic failed to oust the remnants of the Empire. Han and Leia failed to have a happy ending. It's not Palpatine's survival in isolation that is the problem. It's just that if he has, it would complete the circuit of failures. Our heroes achieved nothing and that leaves a sour taste in my mouth. 

That was Kylo's sentiment and when has that ever been the right position?  That is not the mantra of TLJ. The mantra is "Failure is the greatest teacher". Conventional wisdom is if we forget the past we're doomed to repeat it. The failure of the heroes of the middle trilogy was they didn't learn from the past and repeated the mistakes of the previous generation. They rebuilt the Jedi Order and the Republic, but those institutions had flaws that originally led to their destruction. The best we can hope is Han, Leia and Luke has each in their own way, taught the newest heroes how not to make the same mistakes they did so they can get it right this time.

Edited April 14, 2019 by VCRTracking

[ursula]

1 hour ago, VCRTracking said:

That was Kylo's sentiment and when has that ever been the right position?  

Are we supposed to now doubt Kylo? Because he also said that Rey was a Nobody and her parents were losers... 

1 hour ago, VCRTracking said:

The failure of the heroes of the middle trilogy was they didn't learn from the past and repeated the mistakes of the previous generation.

Luke's refusal to adhere to the Jedi code of detachment and: a, abandon his friends on Bespin or b, murder his father on orders was him doing exactly the opposite. 

But why bother with continuity and/or coherent characterisation when a trite mantra can handwave all that away?  

Next thing someone will argue that Harry Potter will grow up to be the kind of father that tells his son he wishes he was never born...

Oh wait.

Edited April 14, 2019 by ursula

[VCRTracking]

6 minutes ago, ursula said:

Are we supposed to now doubt Kylo? Because he also said that Rey was a Nobody and her parents were losers...  

There's a difference between personal philosophy and objective truth. Vader told Luke the truth he was his father but also thought the Dark Side would bring order to the galaxy.

7 minutes ago, ursula said:

Luke's refusal to adhere to the Jedi code of detachment and: a, abandon his friends on Bespin or b, murder his father on orders was him doing exactly the opposite.  

The Jedi's arrogance and strict adherence to the binary of dark and light was their downfall.

[Anduin]

Sith, darksiders in general, don't actually lie outright. They selectively reveal information that will serve their purposes. Think any courtroom drama where a lawyer questions evidence, a witness, or the accused, trying to spin the information in favour of their preferred outcome. Whichever side you support, prosecution or defence, the darksider is on the other side.

Also, sometimes they're wrong or fall victim to their own propaganda. Palpatine thinks Luke will strike down Vader and turn to the dark side. Snoke thinks Ren will kill his enemy Rey.

So really, who knows what it all means or what's going to happen. 🙂

[Morrigan2575]

10 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens

Star Wars Episode VIII: Fuck You, JJ

Star Wars Episode IX: No, Fuck You, Rian

Reminds me of Kevin Smith's TLJ review which could have been subtitled Fuck You, JJ. I watched Jeremy Jhans' trailer review which should have been subtitled Fuck you, Rian. I had plans. 😁

Edited April 14, 2019 by Morrigan2575

[JessePinkman]

Bless her. She says exactly what I've been saying for years now "He has also killed so many people." 😂

[Morrigan2575]

that's a definite do not want for me.

[VCRTracking]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

that's a definite do not want for me.

Yeah,  I loved their scenes together in TLJ but I never ever considered they end up together.

[Anduin]

5 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

Yeah,  I loved their scenes together in TLJ but I never ever considered they end up together.

Yep. While Daisy Ridley and Adam Driver have a certain something together, I don't ship their characters. Maybe if Ren turns to the light side... But even then I lean towards no.

[Spartan Girl]

Bitch Boy can redeem himself/go to the light side as long as he dies while doing it.

[Wynterwolf]

4 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Bitch Boy can redeem himself/go to the light side as long as he dies while doing it.

That would certainly bring him full circle with Anakin's path and I think would be a fitting end to his character arc. 

I am wondering, though, if they might have plans to carry any of the Skywalkers on in another media format either comic or book form or something animated.  We won't get any more live action movies of them, but I could see them potentially being used in another format.  

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, Wynterwolf said:

That would certainly bring him full circle with Anakin's path and I think would be a fitting end to his character arc. 

I am wondering, though, if they might have plans to carry any of the Skywalkers on in another media format either comic or book form or something animated.  We won't get any more live action movies of them, but I could see them potentially being used in another format.  

I hope so. I really want to see the family continue. I know they probably won't do anymore live action films of Skywalkers. But I still want them to continue. I'd be happy to follow them or that person in book or comic book form.

[dkb]

Am I the only one who doesn't like the title? It just seems so weird and out of place compared to all the other episode titles.

[Wynterwolf]

2 minutes ago, dkb said:

Am I the only one who doesn't like the title? It just seems so weird and out of place compared to all the other episode titles.

I'm hoping the meaning will become more clear after we see the movie.  I have a few ideas about what it could mean, but we really need context.  

[Danny Franks]

On 4/16/2019 at 2:18 PM, JessePinkman said:

Bless her. She says exactly what I've been saying for years now "He has also killed so many people." 😂

Tiptoeing around the edges of saying 'it's fucked up and toxic, and based on emotional abuse'. Fair enough if she doesn't want to upset the fucking weirdos who are into that.

Seeing Daisy asked about it puts this into perspective thought - she's the female lead of a multi-billion dollar franchise, but so many fans want to reduce her power by imagining her in a twisted relationship with the villain. That's kind of depressing.

And any redemption of Kylo Ren would be utterly wrong, to me. He made his choice. Then he doubled down on his choice. He is the arrogant, snivelling, rage-filled arsehole we saw flailing at Luke, at the end of The Last Jedi. That's who he is. A bit of the teaser seems to show a new mask being made for him, which reiterates that point. He's not the dreamy eyed woobie, just waiting to be saved by the plucky heroine, he's the evil villain who needs to be killed.

[andromeda331]

19 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

Tiptoeing around the edges of saying 'it's fucked up and toxic, and based on emotional abuse'. Fair enough if she doesn't want to upset the fucking weirdos who are into that.

Seeing Daisy asked about it puts this into perspective thought - she's the female lead of a multi-billion dollar franchise, but so many fans want to reduce her power by imagining her in a twisted relationship with the villain. That's kind of depressing.

And any redemption of Kylo Ren would be utterly wrong, to me. He made his choice. Then he doubled down on his choice. He is the arrogant, snivelling, rage-filled arsehole we saw flailing at Luke, at the end of The Last Jedi. That's who he is. A bit of the teaser seems to show a new mask being made for him, which reiterates that point. He's not the dreamy eyed woobie, just waiting to be saved by the plucky heroine, he's the evil villain who needs to be killed.

I agree. Yes, Ren and Rey have good chemistry. But redeeming Kylo and putting him a relationship with Rey would be wrong. I agree he's made his choice many times over. His anger, hurt, and etc. over what happened with Luke. But he chose to attack Luke's Jedi Academy/Temple and killed everyone there. Well, everyone he didn't recruit. He didn't have to do that. He didn't have to kill other people. He chose too. Just like he chose to follow Snoke, he chose attack people in the beginning of TFA and he chose to kill his father. He didn't have to do that. But he chose to. He didn't have to stay after killing Snoke. He chose to stay. He's a villain and he's chose to be one. Whatever his connection was with Rey, he chose to reject the Light Side. What exactly are his reasons for any of it? Because Uncle Luke messed up (or did he given all the evil crap Kylo ended up doing?). Because his parents were too busy? How does that compare to other lives even just looking at his own family?

I like Rey and I hope her closing the door on Kylo at the end of the movie was for good. She thought she could save him, she tried and he chose to reject it. 

[Wynterwolf]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

I agree he's made his choice many times over.

He has, definitely, up to this point.  But so long as a person is alive, every day they have the opportunity to make a different choice.  It doesn't in any way erase their past actions, but it can lead them down a different path going forward.  

Just saw a thing that brought back the idea that Rey could be a Palpatine decedent, which, hmmmm.  I could see it from a story arc perspective, and it has a definite yin/yang thing with Kylo that they've played heavily with, but I really liked the idea that any random person can become a powerful beacon of hope, that nothing about it is about lineage.  There is just far too great an impact from privilege in the idea of lineage, and I'm just tired of that dusty trope.  

[WritinMan]

On 4/16/2019 at 12:18 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Bitch Boy can redeem himself/go to the light side as long as he dies while doing it.

And if he became Darth Bitch Boy, that just wouldn't have the same impact as some of the other Sith Lords.

[andromeda331]

12 hours ago, Wynterwolf said:

He has, definitely, up to this point.  But so long as a person is alive, every day they have the opportunity to make a different choice.  It doesn't in any way erase their past actions, but it can lead them down a different path going forward.  

Just saw a thing that brought back the idea that Rey could be a Palpatine decedent, which, hmmmm.  I could see it from a story arc perspective, and it has a definite yin/yang thing with Kylo that they've played heavily with, but I really liked the idea that any random person can become a powerful beacon of hope, that nothing about it is about lineage.  There is just far too great an impact from privilege in the idea of lineage, and I'm just tired of that dusty trope.  

I liked that idea too. Its a great idea that anyone can be a Jedi. It doesn't matter who your parents are or where you came from. You have to have abilities of course. You can come from nothing, parents who abandoned you and still be Jedi.  The little boy at the end using the Force for the broom. You can still be great. Its also a great tie in from PT Jedi since most were born randomly throughout the galaxy. 

[Zuleikha]

 Its a great idea that anyone can be a Jedi. It doesn't matter who your parents are or where you came from. You have to have abilities of course. You can come from nothing, parents who abandoned you and still be Jedi.

That is and always has been the canon. TLJ didn't add anything to that, other than to remind people of it.

Luke's only lineage based specialness was that Darth Vader had an emotional investment in Luke. But that was about father/son blood ties and not anything specific to being Skywalkers.

I wouldn't care about Rey having a blood connection EXCEPT that this is supposed to be episodes 7-9 of the Skywalker saga. It's not supposed to be an independent story, so I would like the main character to have some kind of real tie to what went before. As it is, it's a stretch to even call her Luke's apprentice or protogee.

She also is overpowered if she truly didn't have training prior to TFA. Personally, I don't find it any more inspiring to have a random person become a beacon of hope because of being born so unusually gifted that they don't need to work or train. Which is why I will never understand why Johnson didn't have Rey be a student at Luke's academy who Kylo saved from the massacre. That fan spec seemed so logical and and for me would have addressed all the issues with the Rey/Kylo plot in TLJ.

[Anduin]

1 hour ago, Zuleikha said:

She also is overpowered if she truly didn't have training prior to TFA. Personally, I don't find it any more inspiring to have a random person become a beacon of hope because of being born so unusually gifted that they don't need to work or train. Which is why I will never understand why Johnson didn't have Rey be a student at Luke's academy who Kylo saved from the massacre. That fan spec seemed so logical and and for me would have addressed all the issues with the Rey/Kylo plot in TLJ.

In what way is she overpowered?

[Zuleikha]

Her ability to mimic and outdo Kylo Ren at everything IMHO is genuinely Mary Sue like if it's just her innate ability. Kylo Ren was portrayed as already atypically strong. Canon has it that Force-sensitive people can use the Force intuitively for small things, but it is supposed to take multiple years for control and power. All of Luke's power-ups were after an extended period of formal training. Rey's closest thing to that was her incredibly brief time with Luke in TLJ, and that's portrayed as barely real training.

Presumably, this will be a non-issue in Rise of Skywalker because she has the books and some amount of time. 

[VCRTracking]

2 hours ago, Anduin said:

In what way is she overpowered?

She's not. In the TFA fight Kylo just took a blast bolt in the stomach. A blast from a weapon that as seen earlier in the film could knock a Stormtrooper off his feet. Finn also struck him on the shoulder with a lightsaber. The fact that Finn lasted as long as he did should've clued people in because frankly if Kylo had been at full strength Finn would have been dead within seconds and so would Rey when they started fighting. When Obi-Wan fought Count Dooku in AOTC and got cut in the arm and leg, he was like "I'm out!" Imagine in the first Rocky movie Rocky didn't train but beat Apollo Creed after he had just been shot in the stomach and stabbed in the shoulder. Nobody's going to think it's unbelievable he won and wonder how he did that!

3 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

I wouldn't care about Rey having a blood connection EXCEPT that this is supposed to be episodes 7-9 of the Skywalker saga. It's not supposed to be an independent story, so I would like the main character to have some kind of real tie to what went before.

We already do. His initials are B.S.

3 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

Which is why I will never understand why Johnson didn't have Rey be a student at Luke's academy who Kylo saved from the massacre. That fan spec seemed so logical and and for me would have addressed all the issues with the Rey/Kylo plot in TLJ.

Because where's the logic of revealing what happened with Luke and Kylo at the Jedi Temple to one who was actually there when it happened? That's the story Rian Johnson wanted to tell, and had to be told because JJ Abrams made it be the big mystery of his movie. Also explaining how Rey didn't remember Kylo or how she ended up in Jakku would be convoluted and make it ridicutlously coincidental even for a Star Wars movie.

Edited April 20, 2019 by VCRTracking

[Morrigan2575]

3 hours ago, Anduin said:

4 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

In what way is she overpowered?

She's not overpowered but, her powers were over developed for someone with no training and no previous use. She pretty much went from what's this force thing you speak of to Jedi Knight in 2 seconds.

It's standard in every Star Wars story/game/book that learning to use Force powers takes time and effort. It took Ahsoka and Ezra years to grow and develop control over their abilities. In the movies Luke and Anakin's Force Abilities developed over time with training (which took place in the time gaps between movies)

With TFA I thought JJ cheated with Rey because unlike Episodes I and IV there wasn't a Jedi Master to do the heavy force lifting against Kylo Ren.  However, I now think JJ's real intention was to have Rey connected to Luke and, the Academy as a child, showing she had formal training but, blocked it out as part of a painful childhood memory. This way, her quick development wasn't so much wow I've mastered everything in 2 seconds! Instead more remembering her instincts and childhood training.

I don't think Rey is a Mary Sue but, I do think the movies did her dirty regarding her journey. They cheated to get to force powers (cool!) and lightsaber battles and, that (IMO) short changed Rey's hero journey YMMV.

[Anduin]

2 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

Her ability to mimic and outdo Kylo Ren at everything IMHO is genuinely Mary Sue like if it's just her innate ability. Kylo Ren was portrayed as already atypically strong. Canon has it that Force-sensitive people can use the Force intuitively for small things, but it is supposed to take multiple years for control and power. All of Luke's power-ups were after an extended period of formal training. Rey's closest thing to that was her incredibly brief time with Luke in TLJ, and that's portrayed as barely real training.

Presumably, this will be a non-issue in Rise of Skywalker because she has the books and some amount of time. 

Rey has had a rough life up to that point. She's probably been using the Force unconciously for a long time. Look at Anakin's podracing. However, yes. Luke is dropped into a war, he takes a while to get up and running. However, Rey is fallible. She sees the vision of her team-up with Ren, but interprets it in her own favour. Though so does Ren.

It's clear that now she's accepted she's a Jedi, she's diving into it. I wonder if she and Leia talked between scenes around the end of TFA. Maybe Leia gave her a pep talk, or some advice. Chewie has seen things too. So right there, she's got two mentors even before going to Luke. And perhaps some past Jedi has been whispering in her ear.

Hell, maybe deserts are just good training grounds for Jedi. Pity we haven't seen any Geonosian Jedi. 🙂

[andromeda331]

2 minutes ago, Anduin said:

Rey has had a rough life up to that point. She's probably been using the Force unconciously for a long time. Look at Anakin's podracing. However, yes. Luke is dropped into a war, he takes a while to get up and running. However, Rey is fallible. She sees the vision of her team-up with Ren, but interprets it in her own favour. Though so does Ren.

It's clear that now she's accepted she's a Jedi, she's diving into it. I wonder if she and Leia talked between scenes around the end of TFA. Maybe Leia gave her a pep talk, or some advice. Chewie has seen things too. So right there, she's got two mentors even before going to Luke. And perhaps some past Jedi has been whispering in her ear.

Hell, maybe deserts are just good training grounds for Jedi. Pity we haven't seen any Geonosian Jedi. 🙂

Yes, deserts and crappy and/or hard childhoods. Its easy for Rey to have just assumed she adjusted, learned what she had to in order to survive to adulthood or however old she was when TFA started on her own and then realized it was the Force. Digging for scraps to trade for food and not getting killed by criminals or accidents. Anakin surviving until 9 as a slave. He was able to see things before they happened which just made it look like had good reflexes. Without them he probably would have been killed the first time Watto made him do the podraces. Luke probably had moments he didn't realize he was using the Force either growing up on the farm. Anakin seemed in awe of the Jedi but it never occurred to him that he had Jedi abilities. They all could chalk it up to instincts, gut feelings or something. Rey was surprised she was able to fly the Falcon. 

[Wynterwolf]

3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Its easy for Rey to have just assumed she adjusted, learned what she had to in order to survive to adulthood or however old she was when TFA started on her own and then realized it was the Force.

Yes, exactly!   

4 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

her powers were over developed for someone with no training and no previous use.

She has an innate ability to interact with and manipulate the force that is part of her natural instincts.... kind of like how Tiger Woods had an innate, instinctive ability about how to hit a golf ball when he was three!  When I was a kid, I was just good at doing math.  Teachers would always try to get me to help other kids who were struggling, but I couldn't because I couldn't explain how to do it, I just... knew. 

8 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

I wouldn't care about Rey having a blood connection EXCEPT that this is supposed to be episodes 7-9 of the Skywalker saga. It's not supposed to be an independent story, so I would like the main character to have some kind of real tie to what went before. As it is, it's a stretch to even call her Luke's apprentice or protogee.

That's why I would love the idea of Rey being officially or symbolically adopted into the Skywalker clan, giving her the Skywalker name since (at this point, at least) she doesn't have one of her own.  Or maybe to have people just assume she's a Skywalker, because of what she can do and her connection to Luke/using his lightsaber.  So the name 'Skywalker' could become something beyond just the blood lineage, become more of a symbol, with Leia and Luke's legacy of rebellion and of fighting for hope living on in the next generation even though they are both no longer living, so that anyone who chooses to embody those ideals can be a Skywalker.  Rey is part of the Skywalker family, she was embraced and accepted by Luke and Leia (and even Han, before he was killed), that is enough to make her a Skywalker for me... YMMV.  

Edited April 20, 2019 by Wynterwolf

[ursula]

7 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

However, I now think JJ's real intention was to have Rey connected to Luke and, the Academy as a child, showing she had formal training but, blocked it out as part of a painful childhood memory. This way, her quick development wasn't so much wow I've mastered everything in 2 seconds! Instead more remembering her instincts and childhood training.

Honestly I always figured that this was the way the story was going. Ren's rift from Luke and Luke's isolationism were all going to connect with Ren having kidnapped Rey as a child and either sold her or lost her. And all these were going to be revealed in season 2. Rey would be Luke's daughter he's assumed was dead all this while, which turned him into a bitter, broken hermit. Fingers crossed that JJ finally fixes this mess.

[Browncoat]

Maybe, the new group of Jedi, instead of calling themselves Jedi, will call themselves Skywalker.  And thus, Rey will be a Skywalker -- the rise of Skywalker?

Eh, it sounded better in my head.

[Wynterwolf]

1 minute ago, Browncoat said:

Maybe, the new group of Jedi, instead of calling themselves Jedi, will call themselves Skywalker.  And thus, Rey will be a Skywalker -- the rise of Skywalker?

Eh, it sounded better in my head.

Ha ha! Yeah, I know what you mean... but yeah, this article gets to that and it explains pretty well how I feel.  

But (per the article) rather than her parents abandoning her to go fight for the rebellion (which is too similar to Ezra’s background, IMO, and anyone who left her to end up on that planet, didn't give a flying fig about her well-being), I’d go a different way. 

In addition to Ezra’s backstory, we’ve seen the Empire steal force sensitive children, we’ve seen the Jedi Order reject a powerful force sensitive child, we’ve seen a Jedi hide force sensitive children to keep them safe, and we’ve seen one who grew up in a relatively ‘safe’ family environment… one thing I don’t think we’ve seen is parents rejecting a child because maybe she does ‘weird things’ and they are afraid, or bigoted.  That would also tie into the idea of opposing what the First Order (aka White Nationalist/Nazis stand-in) stands for.  So I agree that JJ should answer why they left her there, but I think she should still be the child of 'nobodies'.  

[Perfect Xero]

I've said it before in some of the other Star Wars threads, but I'll say it here too since Rey's seemingly advanced abilities have come up: my theory after watching TFA a half dozen times is that Rey is the reincarnation of Anakin Skywalker.

When we meet Maz in TFA she goes off on this speech about having been alive long enough to see the same eyes in different people. Anakin's Lightsaber (which Maz sas for some reason) and Obi-Wan's voice calls out to Rey. I don't even feel like the connection is particularly subtle. This is why Rey seems so skilled compared to her level of training, she's drawing on her past life as Anakin.

Further I'd speculate that Rey doesn't have an actual biological father, and was born 'of the force' in the same way that Anakin was. Making Anakin her father in a sort of metaphysical sense.

Rey and Ben embody the two side of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader, and thematically TFA (and the NT) is the battle between the two sides of his legacy.

Speculating on the Teaser, I'm thinking that Rey starts having some sort of flashbacks/visions of her life as Anakin/Vader, and that's where the Palpatine laugh comes from.