Les Misérables (2018) - General Discussion

[Tom Holmberg]

2 hours ago, Tardislass said:

Actually, the only woman in LM to have a happy ending is the rather dull Cosette the rest of the feistier women seem to die off.

The Madonna and the whore syndrome exists even in today's  popular culture.

[Snow Apple]

I don't remember much about Cosette in the novel but I remember she was more interesting as a child. She started as an ugly little thing, most likely having such a hard life. The nun only agreed to let her and Jean live and work in the convent because she was sure Cosette's only option was becoming a nun after she grew up since it's doubtful she can attract a man to marry. 

Most people think she's just a boring character but I always have a soft spot for her due to her childhood.

[CCTC]

It can be hard to understand the Victorian heroines with the modern eye at times.  I had a hard time getting through The Old Curiosity Shop, because Nell was so passive and threw away a few opportunities to save herself.  If I remember correctly, David Copperfield's first wife was similar, although to be fair, David could be pretty passive himself.  I believe his second wife was actually pretty capable.

One thing that I noticed about Dracula, whenever they talked about how smart or brave or capable Mina was there was always some sort of qualifier for a woman or how it was unusual for a woman to be that brave etc.

[Spartan Girl]

Wow, the Thernardiers really screwed Fantine over. They didn't just scam her, they pretty much got her fired.

I forgot what a hypocrite Valjean was in the novel.

[Tardislass]

4 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Wow, the Thernardiers really screwed Fantine over. They didn't just scam her, they pretty much got her fired.

I forgot what a hypocrite Valjean was in the novel.

I don't know about the book but in the musical, it's the foreman-not seen here who fires Fantine. Valjean doesn't know the whole details until he finds Fantine dying and then devotes himself to carrying for the daughter. So he's not as big an a-hole in the musical. He's almost a saintly figure as the Bishop has saved his soul for God. Yes, it sounds funny today but this was still believed in the 1800s by Hugo. His son, an ardent Republican didn't want the Bishop to be such a saintly figure but Hugo wanted to show how it was in the old days and what he believed.  It's very interesting not in the least because the French Revolution really erased much of the religion from the country and the priests and nuns were often targets.

I will say that the musical makes you forget about the actual horrors of the book and even ends on a hopeful note-with the flag waving and the stirring anthem. Until you get in your car and realize that most everyone in the play died. LOL. 

[Snow Apple]

9 minutes ago, Tardislass said:

I don't know about the book but in the musical, it's the foreman-not seen here who fires Fantine. Valjean doesn't know the whole details until he finds Fantine dying and then devotes himself to carrying for the daughter. So he's not as big an a-hole in the musical. He's almost a saintly figure as the Bishop has saved his soul for God. 

Yeah, in the musical, he sings "I look to you to sort this out and be as patient as you can..."

Kind of funny to expect the foreman of a factory in that time to be nice and fair. He of all people should know better. But I guess it was just a shortcut to show how saintly he's become.

I vaguely remember that in the book, Fantine was fired but ValJean wasn't involved in that scene at all. But don't quote me on that.

[JudyObscure]

23 minutes ago, Tardislass said:

I don't know about the book but in the musical, it's the foreman-not seen here who fires Fantine. Valjean doesn't know the whole details until he finds Fantine dying and then devotes himself to carrying for the daughter. So he's not as big an a-hole in the musical. He's almost a saintly figure as the Bishop has saved his soul for God. Yes, it sounds funny today but this was still believed in the 1800s by Hugo

Wow that makes a big difference to me.  Last week I was so moved by Valjean's  change of heart, that this week  it upset  me to think he would fire Fantine simply for lying to him about having a family (or for having a daughter at all, it wasn't clear.) 

2 hours ago, CCTC said:

It can be hard to understand the Victorian heroines with the modern eye at times

I really prefer those heroines, Thomas Hardy's Tess, Dicken's Little Dorrit  and Esther.  I get tired of all the modern heroines all being so sassy and feisty. Many of the Victorian ones who seem passive at first glance have a quiet strength, like Jane Eyre. 

[Diablo]

Just broke open my copy of the book. Two points I needed clarification on: 

1. Fantine can’t leave the town she is in because she was in debt for her room and furniture. (Hugo even comments that Fantine was bad with money.)

2. Valjean knew nothing about Fantine’s firing. A gossipy widow told the overseer of the women’s factory (into which Valjean/Madeleine almost never went) about the child and this overseer was the one to fire her. Valjean only learns about what happened to Fantine when she confronts him when he intervened upon her arrest. It comes as a complete shock to him that something so horrible would happen under his watch without his knowledge. Valjean would never have allowed such a thing to happen had he known about it. 

I think the flaws of Davies’ adaptation are emerging as we discuss it. He makes little, tiny changes to streamline the plot, but it ends up distorting the characters’ motivations and arcs. I’m actually surprised how faithful the musical managed to be. 

Edited April 23, 2019 by Diablo

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Tardislass said:

I don't know about the book but in the musical, it's the foreman-not seen here who fires Fantine. Valjean doesn't know the whole details until he finds Fantine dying and then devotes himself to carrying for the daughter. So he's not as big an a-hole in the musical. He's almost a saintly figure as the Bishop has saved his soul for God. 

Yes, I know, I've seen the musical, LOL.

At this point I prefer musical Valjean to this version of Valjean.

[plurie]

Having only seen the musical, and not read the book, I don't understand how Petit-Gervais would have been able to name Jean Valjean as the man who robbed him. He MIGHT have been able to recognize on sight the robber, but wouldn't have known his name. So how is THIS the reason that not-Jean Valjean was arrested?

[Llywela]

2 hours ago, plurie said:

Having only seen the musical, and not read the book, I don't understand how Petit-Gervais would have been able to name Jean Valjean as the man who robbed him. He MIGHT have been able to recognize on sight the robber, but wouldn't have known his name. So how is THIS the reason that not-Jean Valjean was arrested?

Javert probably heard of the crime, got the boy to describe the man, and jumped to a very big (yet accurate) conclusion - and then clung to his hypothesis as fact ever after, because that's how Javert rolls!

[Tardislass]

1 hour ago, Llywela said:

Javert probably heard of the crime, got the boy to describe the man, and jumped to a very big (yet accurate) conclusion - and then clung to his hypothesis as fact ever after, because that's how Javert rolls!

Like most 19th century novels-coincidence and the boy probably described him and Javert being the crack detective he is except when the plot demands he's not, realizes it. PBS facebook page had a video which went into detail about the book and Hugo himself. Interestingly a bit like Marius, he came from a Revolutionary father and a monarch loving mother, which explains his rather odd belief system both in logic and revolution. For those having problems with his poor characters, it's probably due to Hugo being from the upperclass and living that life-style. His characters were probably more motif to tell a story rather than accurate portrayals. Contrast that with Dickens who actually lived amongst the poor and factory workers and had a dad in debtors prison. He was able to portray this because of the people he met. Plus, while VH wrote about revolution, we only every meet the students when Marius is introduced to them and the main characters in the book don't ever embrace totally the fervor of the students, it's more interpersonal to get to the person they love.

It's a very interesting video and I never realized that the book is a whopper at 1900 pages. Eek.

[springbarb]

I think someone else has recommended it in this thread, but if you're interested in Les Mis and early 19th century France, I highly highly recommend The Novel of the Century: The Extraordinary Adventure of Les Miserables. It provides a lot of information about Hugo life in that period.

[AllAboutMBTV]

Olivia Colman was just as good as Mme. T as I thought she'd be. There can never be enough Colman. I did gasp when Thenardier slapped her, though. I'm sure I've never seen Colman slapped before (although I wanted to slap her character in Fleabag all the way across the Thames and back, she was that horrible).

I had to laugh that Mme. T had a Cockney accent. I know it's meant to be signifier of a lower class, but it just added to the mishmash of French/English accents. I hear a little needle scratch every time someone says, "Yes, monsieur" in the middle of an otherwise English conversation. It would be like me saying, "Ja, mein herr" here in California.

Agreed with those upthread who think this Javert is underwritten and underplayed. And for a town with low crime levels, there sure seemed to be enough obvious prostitutes he could have arrested for soliciting, not to mention their johns.

[Tom Holmberg]

Now the BBC needs to do a new miniseries of Dumas' "The Count of Monte Cristo." (The most recent movie version was really awful.)

[Tom Holmberg]

On ‎4‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 4:14 PM, Tardislass said:

I never realized that the book is a whopper at 1900 pages. Eek.

It's actually fairly fast reading, though (at least I've found it so, and I've read it a few times-in different translations).

[Tardislass]

On 4/26/2019 at 10:55 PM, Tom Holmberg said:

Now the BBC needs to do a new miniseries of Dumas' "The Count of Monte Cristo." (The most recent movie version was really awful.)

Maybe it's because I read the book and have my own ideas of characters, but I've never seen a really good movie version. Perhaps because of the subject matter and it's not as "fun" as The Three Musketeers. If we are talking about wanting a good movie version, I will nominate HG Wells "The Time Machine". The Disney version was cute if dated but of course left out the whole moral of the book which was that it was the Industrial Revolution and capitalism that lead to the differing races and living arrangements. Probably why Hollywood will never do a true version of the book. Btw, the Guy Pearce version was bloody awful. Wasted two hours of my life on it.

But speaking of Dumas, I'd love to see a movie about his father or him. His father had a fascinating life born of a liaison between a slave woman and her French master, his father later taking him back to France, his rise in the military and the discrimination against him. Would make a great movie. Perhaps the French already have made one.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Tardislass

[Tardislass]

Episode 3 and I'm really enjoying it. Glad to know that the prisoners got paid for their denouncing a different man as I thought him and Valjean looked nothing alike. Fantine's death was quite different than the musical as she dies thinking Cosette is with her. Speaking of Cosette, the little girl playing her was very good and I didn't mind that they had her using bad language as living with the Thenardiers would have taught her much more. Dominick West and her were adorable together. Finally kudos to Olivia Colman who is excellent in everything, but coldblooded about Gavroche poor child has worse hair than Cosette.

But I think Monsieur Davies saw The Sound of Music once to many times as the nuns saving the heroes troupe  was about the same. Almost expected Climb Every Mountain. I did read in a British review that the first three episodes were the best of the series as last half skims over a lot of the story to reach the end. Just hope they at least give some time to the student rebels, especially the leader...hubba hubba.

[Tom Holmberg]

21 hours ago, Tardislass said:

I've never seen a really good movie version.

I liked the script for the Gerard Depardieu version, but he was miscast (if he spent 18 years in the Chateau d'If on basically bread and water, he must have been also eating the other prisoners to be so well filled out).  The Richard Chamberlain version was good-looking, but left out a lot of the story, as do most other versions.

[Tom Holmberg]

9 hours ago, Tardislass said:

But I think Monsieur Davies saw The Sound of Music once to many times as the nuns saving the heroes troupe  was about the same.

The nuns didn't really save Valjean in the book. They left out Fauchelevent, the actual convent gardener and the man Valjean rescued from under the cart, the plot to sneak Valjean out of the convent and back in, Valjean's burial alive and his "resurrection" (which furthers his Christ-like persona, so probably important to the story). 

[Dr.OO7]

I didn't really like the second episode, but the third, last night, was excellent. That bit with Javert and his squad chasing Cosette and Valjean through the streets was just as nail-biting as in the book. I always wish the musical didn't leave it out.

[Dr.OO7]

22 hours ago, Tardislass said:

but I've never seen a really good movie version

I went into the 1998 version expecting the musical and was sorely disappointed. And even after I realized that it wasn't intended to be, I still couldn't like it very much, probably because I was so used to the Broadway show. I didn't like how many things were changed or left out.

Something that seems to have inevitably happened with every adaptation.

[springbarb]

I hadn't really minded the characterization of Javert before this, but he really started to bother me this episode. He's so shouty. I just can't imagine Javert yelling that much at a woman's deathbed.

[Tom Holmberg]

2 hours ago, Camille said:

I didn't like how many things were changed or left out.

One unabridged version of the book has 1300+ pages.  Now normally one page in a movie script is considered 1 minute of movie time (and really, with a prose book, its probably more).  So that means a faithful adaptation of "Les Miserables" would need to be at least 30 hours long (even leaving out the essays in the book which aren't part of the plot).   I'd probably watch it, but I doubt it would be financed.

[Tardislass]

33 minutes ago, Tom Holmberg said:

One unabridged version of the book has 1300+ pages.  Now normally one page in a movie script is considered 1 minute of movie time (and really, with a prose book, its probably more).  So that means a faithful adaptation of "Les Miserables" would need to be at least 30 hours long (even leaving out the essays in the book which aren't part of the plot).   I'd probably watch it, but I doubt it would be financed.

I'm old enough to remember when the networks had two-week long miniseries. Les Miserables really needs at least 10 episodes in order to do the book justice. Only something funded by Netflix now could hope to have that many episodes.

Fantine's death is the one thing that didn't sit right this episode but I can see where AD wanted to tighten the drama. I liked the musical version better where at least Fantine was at peace when she died. Valjean here is portrayed more like a man wanting to make amends than the Christ-like figure in the novel. I'm enjoying West's acting even if he's not what I envision the character to look like. Luckily that police sketch looked nothing like him so he's safe for a while.LOL. Finally, I'm glad that the show is linking Gavroche to the Thenardiers as the musical portrays him as an orphan.

[Tom Holmberg]

5 minutes ago, Tardislass said:

Finally, I'm glad that the show is linking Gavroche to the Thenardiers as the musical portrays him as an orphan.

I'd love if we get to see Gavroche living inside the elephant!

[Tom Holmberg]

7 minutes ago, Tardislass said:

I'm enjoying West's acting even if he's not what I envision the character to look like.

Funnily, usually I don't buy the lead as the brutish convict Valjean, with West I really don't quite see him as the reformed Valjean.

[CCTC]

4 hours ago, springbarb said:

I hadn't really minded the characterization of Javert before this, but he really started to bother me this episode. He's so shouty. I just can't imagine Javert yelling that much at a woman's deathbed.

That was such a horrible scene on how she she had no mental or emotional solace on her last breath (I am also mainly familiar with the musical - is that how it plays out in the novel?).  I know Javert often does not (or ever?) have shades of gray, and would be easy to be one note, but he is more tedious to watch than love to hate watch.  Compare that to the acting of the actors playing the Thenardiers who make there characters much more compelling to watch.

The neighbor lady who reported their location to Javert was a little creepy.  They have done a good job with some of the small parts.  

[Tom Holmberg]

1 hour ago, Tardislass said:

I'm enjoying West's acting even if he's not what I envision the character to look like.

In this version Valjean beats Thenardier after he threatens Valjean with a pistol.  In the book, Thenardier chases after them and tells Valjean that he can't give up the child in case the mother returns (in an effort to extort more money).  Valjean produces a note from Fantine and his size intimidates the cowardly Thenardier.  There's no violence.  The TV version undercuts Valjean's saintliness.

[Tom Holmberg]

27 minutes ago, CCTC said:

(I am also mainly familiar with the musical - is that how it plays out in the novel?). 

Pretty much.

[Driad]

Has anyone written a conversation between Inspector Javert and Captain Ahab (Moby Dick)?  They would have a lot to talk about.

[Tardislass]

The actor playing Javert has been in MI-5 and played Othello on stage so he's a good actor. It's just that this part wasn't very well written, especially as most of his torment is in his mind. Glossed over in this version is the fact that Javert was born in jail to criminals and grew up amongst them. Seeing the worst of the worst makes him think all criminals are scum and he wants to rid the world of them. Which in a way is good, but Javert takes it too far and thinks none can change. That's why he's still chasing Valjean even after seeing the "new" man. Weirdly, Javert is about the only character we learn more about in the musical than this show. 

I hope this show keeps my attention as now we are getting into the Cosette/Marius snore fest, where all the interesting characters seem to die off leaving the two people who don't give a damn about the revolution the few that live. And I'll be interesting in which of the little girls will grow up to be Eponine. 

[Dr.OO7]

I cringed at the part where Thenardier offered Cosette to Valjean--"Would you like her in here with you?"

Quite the Fridge Horror moment--have they been pimping her out along with all the other abuse they subject her to?

[Tardislass]

35 minutes ago, Camille said:

I cringed at the part where Thenardier offered Cosette to Valjean--"Would you like her in here with you?"

Quite the Fridge Horror moment--have they been pimping her out along with all the other abuse they subject her to?

A little modern touch there. But I doubt they've pimped her out, more like willing in order to get more money. What's even sadder is the way they treat little Gavroche. He in the corner with Cosette and no one pays him any mind. I think his is the sadder story and that they were just going to leave him behind. Which isn't far-fetched as families often did that in times of famine or poverty. Hansel and Gretel were left by their parents in the freaking forest twice!

I will agree the chase scene was well-done as even I got worried and I know how the story ends. But again, it's the coincidence game that the same nun who took care of Fantine just happens to live at the same place Valjean and Cosette are hiding. 

[suzeecat]

Having never read the book nor seen the play (please, no judgment!), I am no doubt in the minority of viewers with no comparison to other adaptations.  My real life has been miserable enough in its own way that I didn't have the interest in purposely exposing myself to something with the word right in the title.  I must say, though, that I am thoroughly engrossed in and enjoying this series!  Each episode stays with me for days and I'm always excited to see the new one.  I find the casting and acting very well done.  Depressing, but excellent!  God, did people really treat young children that way?!?!

[zillabreeze]

On 4/18/2019 at 7:06 AM, Tom Holmberg said:

The book is worth reading, but I'd suggest an unabridged, modern translation like the one translated by Julie Rose for Modern Library.  Also of interest is "The Novel of the Century: The Extraordinary Adventure of Les Misérables" by David Bellos, which goes into the creation and reception of the novel.

Thanks for the recommendation!  I found it on Amazon.  Would you please share what you think makes the Julie Rose superior to the other dozen?

It's been eons since I've read a translated classic...

[Tom Holmberg]

8 minutes ago, zillabreeze said:

Would you please share what you think makes the Julie Rose superior to the other dozen?

She has a good modern translation as does Christine Donougher (her trans. is used in the BBC tie-in ed.).  A lot of older translations, esp. in cheap editions, cut out material, make changes to the story, use inappropriate flowery language, etc.                               

[zillabreeze]

18 minutes ago, Tom Holmberg said:

She has a good modern translation as does Christine Donougher (her trans. is used in the BBC tie-in ed.).  A lot of older translations, esp. in cheap editions, cut out material, make changes to the story, use inappropriate flowery language, etc.                               

Thanks Tom!  That's very helpful.  I am really enjoying your posts on this show.  

[Tom Holmberg]

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 3:32 PM, zillabreeze said:

I am really enjoying your posts on this show.  

Article on the various translations. Doesn't mention Christine Donougher's though.  (I think the author's too generous to some of the older ones.)

https://owlcation.com/humanities/Best-Translations-of-Victor-Hugos-Les-Miserables

Here's a comparison of description of the character Felix (Fantine's BF):

“a thirty-year-old, ill-preserved rake” (Denny)
“a high liver, thirty years old, and in poor shape” (Fahnestock & MacAfee)
"a wasted high roller of thirty” (Rose)
"a good liver, thirty years old and ill preserved" (Wilbour)

"a thirty-year-old pleasure-seeker, and badly preserved." (Donougher)

Edited May 3, 2019 by Tom Holmberg

[zillabreeze]

Well Tom! Thanks for Owlcation!  I really  needed another interweb time-wasting rabbit hole!  

On 5/2/2019 at 2:30 PM, Tom Holmberg said:

Here's a comparison of description of the character Felix (Fantine's BF):

“a thirty-year-old, ill-preserved rake” (Denny)
“a high liver, thirty years old, and in poor shape” (Fahnestock & MacAfee)
"a wasted high roller of thirty” (Rose)
"a good liver, thirty years old and ill preserved" (Wilbour)

absolutely fascinating, the widely different takes on the same text!  

Edited May 6, 2019 by zillabreeze

[j5cochran]

Seriously, Masterpiece?!? Marius Pontmercy, as played by Nick Jonas? A young and callow Nick Jonas?

This show just went off the rails for me. Marius is supposed to be a young girl's dream, not a pouting teen model with expensive clothes and a constant look of dumbfoundedness.

[Diablo]

Episode 4 plays more fast and loose with Hugo, but that’s to be expected. I think Davies did a decent job condensing the plot points into a streamlined action plot. The culminating confrontation between Valjean and Thenardier was suspenseful and I have always loved that badass flex by Valjean searing his own flesh with the poker in that scene. West continues to be pretty damn good as Valjean, making up for lack of physical brutishness with pathos. 

I thought Erin Kelleyman was great as Eponine. The writing for that character is strong. My initial impression of Josh O’Connor as Marius was that he was nothing like I imagine from the novel, but I warmed up to him as the episode went on. Not feeling Joseph Quinn as Enjolras at all so far. Just nowhere near the charismatic presence Hugo described him as. Ellie Bamber as Cosette is fine, but more annoying than she is in the novel.

Still not feeling Oyewolo’s Javert, but that is mostly due to the pedestrian writing. Davies just doesn’t seem to know how to show vs. tell with this character. Valjean suffer from this to some extent as well, but less so. 

Re: translations: I much prefer the Fahnestock/McAfee translation based on Wilbour to any subsequent translation. It just reads more consistent in its tone and is more faithful, word-for-word to Hugo, compared to the Denny or Rose versions. Donougher is good, though, and worth her version for the endnotes alone. I wish the late Alban Krailsheimer had translated this book. He did the translation of Notre-Dame de Paris (The Hunchback of Notre-Dame) for Oxford World’s Classics, and it is simply one of the best translations of any work in any language I have ever read, and includes extremely helpful endnotes and appendices. I’m surprised he Oxford series does not have Les Miserables in their catalogue. That is a huge oversight.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Diablo

[JudyObscure]

Now please don't anyone tell me I don't like this because I don't understand that "times were different then."  While living in England a few years ago, I took an adult course in 19th Century Literature at Oxford. I've always loved the great English novels of that period, we read Dickens, Hardy, the Brontes, and Elliot. I loved the Russians we covered and Tolstoy became my favorite. But when we got to the French we read some Zola and Balzac and they weren't exactly my favorites.  Thank heavens we didn't have to read this, because, at least in this version,  I hate it.

I thought Fantine was short sighted to have her teeth pulled just before turning to prostitution, but then she was short sighted all along, the most naïve courtesan ever, so I guessed it was in character.  But Valjean wounding himself to show how tough he was?  In a time without penicillin or tetanus shots?  Why?  It didn't make the thugs run away, he still had to fight them. 

Did he not understand that Cosette wanted to be like the other girls with friends, parties and romance?  Why did he ever think she would be happy playing the piano by herself  forever?  Of course, Hugo's  young prostitute is more interesting and likeable than the young virgin, as it is often so in literature and film, but it's stretched to the limit here with Cosette not only boring, but spoiled and petulant.

I did like Marius as played by Josh O'Connor, who I  know from "The Durrells in Corfu."  He brings a twinkle of humor to his rolls, but I'm wondering if Hugo had that in mind or it's just the actor?

How much of this is Andrew Davies?  I loved his adaptation of "Little Dorrit" and "Bleak House," but not this.

[Tardislass]

Ep. 4 was a bit substandard but still good due in no small part to Dominic West's portrayal of ValJean. While smaller physically(Cosette is almost his height!), his acting pulls the show together and he is the part. Sadly, Marius and Cosette are as drippy as they are in the movie and Cosette pretty much lacks compassion now with the people below as seen by her disgust with the prisoners. Poor VJ.  

Don't even get me started with Enjolras, who is supposed to be the most handsome of the cast and charismatic. And that one member of the ABC looked like Jack Black's twin. Davies really needed to write a friend or confidence for Javert to tell his thoughts. Daniel O. is a great actor but there only so many steely stares one a character can do. Poor writing.  Since this is Andrew Davies, of course Eponine is written as a tease, though I like the dark portrayal of her parents rather then the comical, fun version of the musical.

The final scene with the fight and chase was well done, at least and show just how innocent and unprepared Marius has been brought up and his conflict with the Thenadiers helping his dad but being evil.  Still love Gavroche and his head of hair strolling in, saying peace out and leaving.

[AZChristian]

I found myself singing the appropriate songs from the musical version during several scenes last night.

[Snow Apple]

26 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

I found myself singing the appropriate songs from the musical version during several scenes last night.

Especially during the scene with the ABC.

Also Cosette singing the "I am no longer a child" song.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Snow Apple

[Tom Holmberg]

12 hours ago, Diablo said:

The culminating confrontation between Valjean and Thenardier was suspenseful and I have always loved that badass flex by Valjean searing his own flesh with the poker in that scene.

Valjean as Liam Neeson in "Taken" in the encounter with the gang isn't in the book and again undercuts Valjean's saintliness. In the book Valjean gives the gang a false address. Just as the gang is going to finish Valjean, Marius anonymously warns them the police are coming and the gang tries to escape.  Valjean does escape out the window.

I like the kid playing Gavroche, but hopefully we'll get more of him next episode.

Marius isn't very handsome, it my estimation. And seems old for Cosette.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Tom Holmberg

[jschoolgirl]

How did Valjean get that house? 

[springbarb]

10 minutes ago, jschoolgirl said:

How did Valjean get that house? 

He had saved a ton of money from his time as factory owner--we saw him dig some of it up. Presumably after he had the cash in hand, he rented the house. He probably continued to go outside the convent during his years working there--or, at least, got a newspaper or however people rented/found lodgings back then.

I've read the book, but it's been many, many years. Can someone remind me whether Javert remained THIS focused on Valjean throughout those years? My impression of him was more that Valjean haunted him, but not to the point that he was constantly brooding in his office and telling his subordinates that he WILL get that man! More like, he focused on progressing through his career, but kept an ear to the ground about Valjean. Just in case.

Edited May 6, 2019 by springbarb
Additional thought

[Diablo]

1 hour ago, Tom Holmberg said:

Valjean as Liam Neeson in "Taken" in the encounter with the gang isn't in the book and again undercuts Valjean's saintliness. In the book Valjean gives the gang a false address. Just as the gang is going to finish Valjean, Marius anonymously warns them the police are coming and the gang tries to escape.  Valjean does escape out the window.

I like the kid playing Gavroche, but hopefully we'll get more of him next episode.

Marius isn't very handsome, it my estimation. And seems old for Cosette.

The elaborate fight scene isn't in the book, but Valjean does berate Thenardier and is gang for thinking they could threaten him and he does take the poker to his own arm. I agree that it undercuts Valjean's saintliness, but I've pretty much given up on that front. Valjean-by-way-of-Dominic West-by-way-of-Davies is not a saint, but a normal man trying to live a good life after being brutalized by the society around him and still hunted by it. West reads too angry and still too psychologically afflicted by the world to come across as saintly. 

Maybe it's a reflection of our current, increasingly secular times, or just the general taste for grittier, more realistic styling in television/film, but this version seems a more humanistic interpretation of these characters. In the novel, the good characters were the canvas on which Hugo painted his image of God. In this series, it's a bunch of human characters milling about in their mortal imperfection, and that includes Valjean. There's little sense of the divine here, except in the Bishop and the nuns. Was this a misreading on Davies' part, or a conscious choice? I'm not sure.