S02.E04: The Greatest Story Ever Told

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

While Shadow and Mr. Wednesday take a secret meeting in St. Louis, Bilquis arrives at the funeral home in Cairo. Laura rejoins Mad Sweeney.

Airing Sunday, March 31, 2019. Please note, STARZ may make this available on it's streaming platform before the broadcast time on Sunday evening.

[AimingforYoko]

Nice try show, but I ain't feelin' sorry for Technical Boy.

E.B. and Al, reunited! The power dynamic's a little different here, though.

Very interesting conversation between the three African Gods. I agree with Ibis' long view, but I understand Anansi's anger.

[hnygrl]

So is Tech boy dead now? Did they just kill tech boy?

Um...what? WHY? They NEED HIM. Oh.  I guess if he and new!Media are the same...?

That was my thoughts throughout this one. "Um...what...?" I'm gonna have to watch this one again cause it made no sense. The sex scene (that I fast-forwarded through and came out of absolutely NOWHERE for NO REASON that I can see) was straight out of the book and it was probably with Ibis's sister. The cat. Was in the book anyway. Weird all the way around. At least in this version, he was sleeping/having some kind of intentional out-of-body experience or whatever that was...

Man, this whole thing was WEIRD and I did not get it. Who is the Asian dude? He's the new Argus but who IS he? Is he human? Half-god? God? What? Who is he? I'm confused. 

And every day in every way, Wednesday is more of a dick.  I really really am beginning to physically hate this character. The way they're writing him is reprehensible and without mercy, and I don't mean it in a good way. You know, he's actually very nice but has an agenda way...I really hate how he sh*ts all over Shadow that way. He was treated better in the book. I try to see this as different from the book but well...(shrug) the comparisons just keep coming...It's almost like the same people didn't write this episode.

[JayBird23]

Could they come up with an episode worse than last week?  YES! 

Wow!

[Drogo]

1 hour ago, hnygrl said:

Who is the Asian dude? He's the new Argus but who IS he? Is he human? Half-god? God? What? Who is he? I'm confused. 

He's human, specifically Technical Boy's first worshiper- a boy who happily set aside his family's faith and love of the arts to instead pray via Atari/GameBoy. 

TB went to him for help replacing Argus, but Mr. World showed up to remind him that his worshipers are easily distracted by lights and sounds on a screen. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

There's something wrong with the show when I'm more interested in the story of Random Asian Piano Player than what the main characters are up to.

[Drogo]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

There's something wrong with the show when I'm more interested in the story of Random Asian Piano Player than what the main characters are up to.

I felt the opening sequence was a return to S1 form.  These little vignettes have always been the highlight of the show for me.   (See also: the first settlers abandoning their parents' gods, Nancy's slave ship monologue, Bilquis' temple in its glory days) Now what S2 needs is a totally out of touch episode a la Essie MacGowan.  I wouldn't mind one centered completely around Wednesday's earlier battles.

Shadow Moon & Catwoman... there's a crossover comic in there somewhere. 

[DarkRaichu]

12 hours ago, Drogo said:

TB went to him for help replacing Argus, but Mr. World showed up to remind him that his worshipers are easily distracted by lights and sounds on a screen. 

Mr World showed him a blue print of better Tech Boy.  You can see an outline of a head showed up when Asian dude started to analyze the graph/connected dots, just like an outline of Tech Boy appeared during funeral service of Asian dude's dad.  This was also why he ignored / could not hear Tech Boy's "hey friend".  He found / started to worship a new god. 
My guess is the new Tech god is going to be some kind of AI

Was Shadow's wound healed after Ibis' sister licked it?

Mr. World retired a god and he suddenly got admitted to see Money?  And those girl scouts gave Shadow such a hard time but then somehow let him pass after Mr. World arrived.  Huh???  Was it just an excuse for Money to see both Mr. World and Odin at the same time?

Smiled at how Mama Ji was at every chain motel in the US + monologue about hard work

So what is the plan of the 3 African gods again?

I think I figured out who Mr World is (spoiler just in case)

Spoiler

He is god of electricity.  He is comparatively new since people did not really worship him until industrial age.  Also he has power over Tech Boy and Media, which makes sense.  Plus when he appears, lights start to flicker

[Bruinsfan]

I really liked the scenes between Yetide Badaki, Orlando Jones, and Demore Barnes (hell, just have the latter narrate the whole show and I'd happily listen without need for visuals), but Whittle and McShane's scenes weren't that entertaining by comparison, and apparently the New Gods can't hold my interest without Gillian Anderson.

Mad Sweeney and Dead Wife were sorely missed.

[Lemur]

3 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

Was Shadow's wound healed after Ibis' sister licked it?

Mr. World retired a god and he suddenly got admitted to see Money?  And those girl scouts gave Shadow such a hard time but then somehow let him pass after Mr. World arrived.  Huh???  Was it just an excuse for Money to see both Mr. World and Odin at the same time?

Ibis's sister is Bast or Bastet.  And she did more than lick his wounds.

As for Mr. World, remember, there is great power in killing a god.  It recharged Laura's coin and it apparently gave Mr. World the capital needed to see Money.  It's also interested that he was able to pass when the two gods were there to overshadow him.  (Or the scene could have been poorly written and makes not a lot of sense.  Maybe World's capital covered them all. Who knows?) 

2 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

Mad Sweeney and Dead Wife were sorely missed.

Yeah, the show really feels limp and lifeless if they aren't on the screen.  

[DarkRaichu]

19 minutes ago, Lemur said:

Ibis's sister is Bast or Bastet.  And she did more than lick his wounds.

Yeah, her scratch marks remained.  I just could not see if his wound healed. 😄

20 minutes ago, Lemur said:

As for Mr. World, remember, there is great power in killing a god.  It recharged Laura's coin and it apparently gave Mr. World the capital needed to see Money.  It's also interested that he was able to pass when the two gods were there to overshadow him.  (Or the scene could have been poorly written and makes not a lot of sense.  Maybe World's capital covered them all. Who knows?) 

Ok.  I forgot the gods & sacrifice part.  Tech Boy was sacrificed to gain audience with Money.  The sacrifice was probably big enough to give both parties access to Money.

[hnygrl]

If they even half-way stick to the book? It makes perfect sense why Wednesday got through when World got through.

Although...they've been...shall we say...'picking and choosing' what to take from the original and what to toss in the bin...

[Haleth]

All I could think of was how much bacteria is in cat saliva. My husband ended up in the emergency room with an infection after a cat bite. 

Orlando Jones hit it out of the park with his monologue.  

One of the few things I remember from the book is Shadow having sex with Bast.  

Edited April 2, 2019 by Haleth

[WatchrTina]

On 3/31/2019 at 10:38 PM, Drogo said:

TB went to him for help replacing Argus, but Mr. World showed up to remind him that his worshipers are easily distracted by lights and sounds on a screen. 

Oh is THAT what happened?  Thank you!  I found that whole scene incomprehensible.  Then again . . . doesn't Mr. World WANT a replacement for Argus?  if so, why is he messing with Tech Boy's efforts?  Aren't they on the same side?

16 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

Ok.  I forgot the gods & sacrifice part.  Tech Boy was sacrificed to gain audience with Money.  The sacrifice was probably big enough to give both parties access to Money.

Again . . . Oh is THAT what happened?  Okay I think I can work with that.  But I sure hope that's NOT the last we've seen of Tech Boy.  I started to like him last week when he said (after spotting Laura with a knife) "Hey Guys . . . never mind."

Bottom line -- I found this episode very confusing.  I heard a rumor that this ep was going to be problematic and, yep, it was. [Side note -- if you've watched The Umbrella Academy that line I just wrote should ring a bell.]   It's been a while since I read American Gods but I'm pretty sure most of this episode was off-book.  The only scene I recognized was Shadow and Bast making the beast with two backs (that definitely IS in the book) and yet in this episode . . . what purpose did it serve?  That interlude could definitely have been cut.  Maybe Laura is going to see the scratch marks on Shadow's back and something will come of that.  Maybe her finding out that he had sex with someone else (someTHING else?) will even the score between them and help them work toward a reconciliation. Or maybe not.  She IS still dead -- refreshed due to her "sacrifice" of a god -- but still dead.

I liked seeing the meet-up of the three African gods (though Anansi said he's not a god . . . which confuses me. If he's not a god then why did he get to ride on the Carousel?  Then again, why did Shadow get a ride when Mad Sweeney and the Jinn weren't welcome?  Never mind -- I've wandered off topic.) Back on topic . . . I liked the meet-up between the three African gods but then it dipped into a commentary on modern race relations and I could't figure out where it was going with that.   It's clear the three gods disagreed but I couldn't really follow what they were debating. How would joining Wednesday's war -- or fighting against him -- make any difference with regard to to the discrimination faced by people of color today? 

My confusion is probably not the reaction the show-runners were going for.  My hope is that once the whole show is out and you can binge-watch, these weaker episodes won't matter.  But as a stand-alone episode, this one was pretty weak.

ETA:

This is a quote from me in the last episode thread, "Wednesday needs Shadow on his own for some reason.  He went to the trouble of killing Laura so that Shadow would be unencumbered and available to become his bodyguard."

Now I think that the speech that Wednesday gave to Shadow in this episode about how he needs him on his own with no connection to anyone was all true.  He cleverly made it seem like he was just being a dick and lying to avoid answering the question, but actually that was all true.  Poor Shadow.

Edited April 2, 2019 by WatchrTina

[DarkRaichu]

9 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

Then again . . . doesn't Mr. World WANT a replacement for Argus?  if so, why is he messing with Tech Boy's efforts?  Aren't they on the same side?

He does not want another machine/computer under the control of TB a la Argus, he wants a newer better tech god who has the combined power of TB and Argus 

10 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

Then again, why did Shadow get a ride when Mad Sweeney and the Jinn weren't welcome?

Leprechaun and Djinn are spiritual beings but they are not worshiped by people so they are technically not gods. 

10 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

I liked the meet-up between the three African gods but then it dipped into a commentary on modern race relations and I could't figure out where it was going with that.   It's clear the three gods disagreed but I couldn't really follow what they were debating. How would joining Wednesday's war -- or fighting against him -- make any difference with regard to to the discrimination faced by people of color today? 

This 100%.

[terrymct]

15 hours ago, hnygrl said:

If they even half-way stick to the book? It makes perfect sense why Wednesday got through when World got through.

Although...they've been...shall we say...'picking and choosing' what to take from the original and what to toss in the bin...

Neil Gaiman has reworked the content a couple times.  There's the original version, then a more recent release in which he said he added back what the editors originally had him review.  This season, he said he was interested in expanding some story lines in ways he hadn't before.

[mrspidey]

On 4/1/2019 at 4:10 AM, hnygrl said:

And every day in every way, Wednesday is more of a dick.  I really really am beginning to physically hate this character. The way they're writing him is reprehensible and without mercy, and I don't mean it in a good way.

Sounds like Odin, alright. 

[tennisgurl]

The beginning sequence with the piano player turned tech mogul who gave birth to Technology Boy through his love of tech mixed with his fathers love of music felt like old school American Gods for a second. It was basically a Coming to American sequence for a New God, which was really cool to see, and even gave technology Boy some context as to why and how he came to be. I assume that some variation of him existed before (its not like tech was first invented in the 80s) but this was this very specific incarnation, and it really hit that perfect note of taking the mundane and making it epic and spiritual and mythical, in the way that the book and many parts of season one did. For a second, it was a return to season one form. 

The rest...not so much. It was better than last week at least, with some bits that I really liked and seemed to fit the themes, like Mama Ji working at every hotel in America, and the god of money being heralded by three creepy girl scouts selling cookies, those were actually interesting, slightly surreal, and were saying something actually subtle. The rest honestly just felt like padding before we move onto the next plot point. 

This is probably as interesting as the Technology Boy has ever been, so of course he gets killed off. 

Anansis big speech was clearly meant to evoke his Coming to American bit from last season to the enslaved Africans, but while Orlando Jones did great with it as always, I came away finding it to be much less affecting. Like, why is he even giving this speech to these people? They already know all of this shit! And while season one was frequently not subtle (and that was part of its charm) his speech was so on the nose, but also so lacking on focus and purpose, that it felt less like the character talking, and more like the writers saying "we read this online, and look at us saying it! Give us Woke points!" instead of it actually being something Anansi would say here. And I really wanted him to shift into spider form or something and tell a story the way he did in folk tales, or do something more like that, to distinguish it from the speech last year.

[Pallas]

Quote

Now I think that the speech that Wednesday gave to Shadow in this episode about how he needs him on his own with no connection to anyone was all true.  He cleverly made it seem like he was just being a dick and lying to avoid answering the question, but actually that was all true.  Poor Shadow.

What Wednesday said was true, I imagine, but that's still not the answer to "why Shadow?" -- it's only "how."  

It seems that what Wednesday needs is the god in the man that Shadow has yet to become. He's forging Shadow into an almighty weapon through a trial by fire: 40 days in the desert, or something like. And it also seems that Wednesday believes that Shadow will only burn clean if he's unencumbered by human connection -- and perhaps, even faith. Gods don't believe. 

[Bruinsfan]

It did seem odd to me that Anansi was trying to convince an ancient Egyptian god and the Queen of Sheba to join Odin's side using the evils of slavery as an argument. I was waiting for Demore Barnes to ask how he thought the Pyramids were built.

[rab01]

On 4/2/2019 at 4:52 PM, tennisgurl said:

Anansis big speech was clearly meant to evoke his Coming to American bit from last season to the enslaved Africans, but while Orlando Jones did great with it as always, I came away finding it to be much less affecting. Like, why is he even giving this speech to these people? They already know all of this shit! And while season one was frequently not subtle (and that was part of its charm) his speech was so on the nose, but also so lacking on focus and purpose, that it felt less like the character talking, and more like the writers saying "we read this online, and look at us saying it! Give us Woke points!" instead of it actually being something Anansi would say here. And I really wanted him to shift into spider form or something and tell a story the way he did in folk tales, or do something more like that, to distinguish it from the speech last year.

It struck me as a scene to save money and round out an episode.  If they really did have to cut a bunch of stuff that didn't work, that speech is a great scene for insertion in reshoots -  it's cheap (they already have the set, the actors are there, no special effects and Orlando Jones may well have written it) and it doesn't advance the plot at all so it doesn't cause any continuity problems. 

[WatchrTina]

I just checked out this episode on RottenTomatoes.com and . . . ouch . . . it is the lowest rated episode of the series so far and is pretty much single-handedly responsible for pulling Season 2 down into green splat territory on the overall tomatometer.  I know Rotten Tomatoes isn't authoritative (and even the website says that with only eight reviews of this episode there is "no consensus yet") but it is still interesting to compare its overall assessment of season 1 (a lofty 92% -- "Certified Fresh!") with it's current assessment of Season 2 (Splat!)

Fingers crossed that things improve in the back half of the season.

Edited April 4, 2019 by WatchrTina

[Nashville]

On 4/1/2019 at 11:24 AM, DarkRaichu said:

I think I figured out who Mr World is (spoiler just in case)

  Reveal spoiler

He is god of electricity.  He is comparatively new since people did not really worship him until industrial age.  Also he has power over Tech Boy and Media, which makes sense.  Plus when he appears, lights start to flicker

This comes pretty close to my own surmises about the nature of Mr. World, Tech Boy, and Media/New Media:

Spoiler

1. Mr. World is, literally, the world of digital information - the sum total of every bit of networked data, every 1 and 0 stored on every hard drive of every computer on the planet.  World is the physical manifestation of all Internet-accessible information.
2. Technical Boy is the sum total of the digital world’s hardware infrastructure - the computers, routers, cables, and end-user devices which all together comprise the delivery method for Mr. World’s data.  TB is the physical manifestation of the Internet’s transport level.
3. Media/New Media is the public face of all data - its translation from a human-incomprehensible jumble of 1s and 0s into a form more easily interpreted by users/worshippers on screens, printouts, etc.  Media is the physical manifestation of the Internet’s presentation layer.

All these existed in the pre-Internet era, of course; you could consider a book or newspaper to be representative - Media would be its physical printed pages, TB would be the printing presses which produced it, and World would be its content.  I suspect, though, it was not until the rise of the current Information Age - and the Internet’s enhanced capability to link together billions of components AND users into an interconnected massmind - that the critical mass of simultaneous worshippers was reached which allowed for their rise to the level of physical manifestation.

On 4/1/2019 at 8:14 PM, Haleth said:

All I could think of was how much bacteria is in cat saliva. My husband ended up in the emergency room with an infection after a cat bite. 

Personally, I was wondering if Shadow might not end up with his own particular brand of cat scratch fever.  ;>

On 4/1/2019 at 8:14 PM, Haleth said:

Orlando Jones hit it out of the park with his monologue.  

In terms of the Ibis/Anansi dialogue - with Ibis advocating change through peaceful means, while Anansi pushed a more direct approach of change through violence and war - was anybody else getting a bit of a MLKJ/Malcolm X vibe?

[WatchrTina]

Okay I just watched this episode again -- on the iMac (so I can see things in the dark scenes better) and with headphones on (so I can hear better.)

I liked it somewhat more this time around but I still say the conversation between the three African gods in the body-prep room at the funeral parlor is confusing as can be.

One thing that IS good is Shadow's morning-after confusion.  Ricky Whittle is a god-send (heh, "god-send") in this crazy world in that he is a perfect stand-in for the viewers with his "WFT just happened to me?" reaction to waking up after a roll in the sack with Bast.

I also spotted something else but my theory might be a spoiler for non-readers so I'm hopping behind the spoiler bars

Spoiler

Mr. World accuses Wednesday of killing Argus (to get an audience with "Money), but actually Laura killed Argus.  Then Wednesday accuses Mr. World of killing Zorya in order to get HIS audience with Money, but we JUST SAW Mr. World kill Tech Boy and then Money's three girl-scout receptionists appear to give Mr. World access to Money. Why did Mr. World need to sacrifice Tech Boy if he had already killed Zorya?   I think Wednesday killed Zorya (or rather had her killed) in order to rile up the old gods (even Bilquis makes mention of it in this episode) and it is THAT sacrifice of a god that earns him the audience with Money.  I'm not 100% sure that's the case in the book but I think it is. I wonder how many non-readers will notice that Mr. World had to kill a god other than Zorya in order to get access to Money.  That should raise some questions in their minds.  But . . . who are we kidding?  This show is so confusing they'll NEVER notice that.

Then again if Wednesday only had Zorya killed, would he still get "credit" for the kill?  After all, he made Laura kill Argus (while he hid) so he should get "credit" for that kill too.  Hmmmm. I'm punching holes in my own theory.

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, WatchrTina said:

I also spotted something else but my theory might be a spoiler for non-readers so I'm hopping behind the spoiler bars

  Hide contents

Mr. World accuses Wednesday of killing Argus (to get an audience with "Money), but actually Laura killed Argus.  Then Wednesday accuses Mr. World of killing Zorya in order to get HIS audience with Money, but we JUST SAW Mr. World kill Tech Boy and then Money's three girl-scout receptionists appear to give Mr. World access to Money. Why did Mr. World need to sacrifice Tech Boy if he had already killed Zorya?   I think Wednesday killed Zorya (or rather had her killed) in order to rile up the old gods (even Bilquis makes mention of it in this episode) and it is THAT sacrifice of a god that earns him the audience with Money.  I'm not 100% sure that's the case in the book but I think it is. I wonder how many non-readers will notice that Mr. World had to kill a god other than Zorya in order to get access to Money.  That should raise some questions in their minds.  But . . . who are we kidding?  This show is so confusing they'll NEVER notice that.

Then again if Wednesday only had Zorya killed, would he still get "credit" for the kill?  After all, he made Laura kill Argus (while he hid) so he should get "credit" for that kill too.  Hmmmm. I'm punching holes in my own theory.

Regarding your spoilered content:

Spoiler

With the possible exception of TechBitch -er- TechBoy, BOTH cited kills were by proxy:

• Zorya was not killed directly by World, but indirectly - via a sniper working for Mr. Town, on World’s directions.
• Likewise Wednesday did not kill Argus directly; Laura Moon was Wednesday’s indirect proxy.
• Are we certain TechBoy is killed?  World said he “retired a god”, but we don’t necessarily know if the specific god to which World referred was TechBoy - or, for that matter, if “retired” = killed.  TechBoy appeared to be drawn into the same sort of apparatus TB himself used for his initial contact with Shadow, which certainly didn’t equate to murder on that occasion.  TechBoob may just be temporarily displaced.

What do you think?

[ombre]

This is gonna come out oddly but...  I love the first scene in the autopsy room.  Seeing Ibis's view of the body on the slab reminds me of this line of questions about whether the voluptuous proportions of venus statues are because they're actually self portraits by pregnant women.  (NSFW-ish photos, btw)

The scenes between the Mr. Nancy, Bilquis, and Ibis are some of my favorites of this season, in large part because they feel not just new but also both a) necessary to putting this show in the conversations in the mainstream of here and now and b) intriguing for their impact on the overall power dynamics.  I really like having a big darned question mark in who will and won't support Wednesday. 

Similarly, the scenes between Ruby and Bilquis are captivating.   

I love how Nancy calls out Ibis for the fact that he tells everyone's story but his own. 

Reactions with spoilers to Ep 7:

Spoiler

Wednesday convincing Shadow that Shadow's important by telling him he's worthless.  Welp.  Nothing quite like some old-fashioned emotional abuse to get a guy all invested in carrying your big stick.

[hertolo]

Slow in catching up, just wanted to add one thing. Mr. World to me is every conspiracy theory come to live. It‘s the shadow world government that people think exist and therefore exists. That‘s why he and his cronies are dressed in black and have such bland names. And that‘s why he thinks he gets to command (New) Media and Techboy. And that‘s why he always wants more information and can never get it, because (conspiracy) he thinks there must always be something more hidden. Because of course, the world is bad and run by a shadow government.

Now there‘s another explanation or dimension having read the books but no need to get into that here.