S09.E12: You'll Know the Bottom When You Hit It

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

When a blackout hits the South Side, Kevin and Veronica come up with a plan to bring the neighborhood together; Carl grows suspicious of Debbie's attempts to get closer with Kelly; Fiona receives guidance from an unexpected person and Lip has to deal with the fallout from Xan’s DCFS visit.

Promo:

Clip:

Original air date: 2/24/19

[Dee]

Can every episode feature naked Kevin?

Shanola Hampton is fantastic. Unfortunately Vee's scenes with Fiona & Lip weren't nearly as strong as they should've been because of the incredibly weak writing.

William H. Macy shines opposite Emmy Rossum.

Poor Carl.

Tammy, her sisters AND Kelly get entire stories to themselves yet Liam is STILL nowhere to be found. Stay Classy, Shameless.

[Citizen A]

I feel like the title of this episode an unintended meta-commentary on the state of the show.

[preeya]

"Hi, my name is Fiona and I'm not sure if I'm an alcoholic."  

   WTF!

Edited February 24, 2019 by preeya

[chocolatine]

Usually I can't stand Frank, but he was great in this episode. Who knew he'd be the one to finally get through to Fiona, *and* quote some REM lyrics in the process!

[Dee]

William H. Macy shines opposite the older bunch. Any scene featuring him and Emmy, Shanola, Steve & Jeremy is almost always great.

It's a shame the writers didn't expend that same effort pairing him up with Emma, Christian, Ethan & Cameron.

[chocolatine]

11 minutes ago, 17wheatthins said:

Why was Fiona's apartment building such a mess? I must have missed something. 

The smarmy real estate guy to whom she sold the building sold it to a condo developer at a $250k profit. The building is about to be demolished and nobody lives there anymore, hence the mess.

[chocolatine]

3 minutes ago, 17wheatthins said:

That's just terrible!! What a douche. 

Thank you for answering; I don't know how I missed that info!

I think it was in first episode after the break. Fiona was walking past and saw workers putting up the demolition signs.

[scrb]

So looks like Fiona’s going to get a little redemption arc, going into the last tw9 episodes?

Shes going to seek help for her problem though if she gave that Irish guy another chance, she might not be feeling so sorry for herself.

They were going to cause a riot in another neighborhood?  Utility company is probably the one responsible for making the South Side the last to get the power back.

So what were they going to do, pick fights with people in a neighborhood which got the power back earlier?  If anything, march on city hall or the offices of the utility company.

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah.. I don’t know what to say about this episode. I didn’t really like any of the fiona and frank scenes. Sorry but frank is terrible and his whole speech about people needing to drink to survive.. ugh. Really? I couldn’t not roll my eyes through that whole thing. The next seasons that this show is going to be around are going to be painful. It’s going to be the Frank show all the time. 

And yeah as I suspected, Fiona is getting a redemptive arc for her final two episodes, I will still stand by my feelings that I can’t believe her final couple of episodes were like this. It was such a hot mess. And here we are.

i don’t care about anything else in this show to tell you the truth, I’m probably out when Er leaves. 

[cmpbl]

I understand what Lip was trying to do but who is he to kick Fiona out of her own house. He needs to move out. Why didn't Lip ask Kev and Vee to be Zanss foster parents? And Lip was wrong Fiona didn't lose the apartment building because of drinking, she lost it because she was greedy.

[oompa]

I did like Frank's response to people wanting to riot: "In this heat?"

My takes:

• It was nice to get a little more neighborhood solidarity which has been missing in recent seasons.
• Frank talking about drinking until you feel good and coast? Yeah, right. He was just downing giant jars of Hobo Loco.
• The whole Carl-Debbie-Kelly love triangle was excruciating. Hopefully that is done, but I'm guessing not.
• I hate Lip. Maybe that is how you need to treat an alcoholic, but it just seems wrong.
• I hope Liam has secretly been adopted by a nice family, and he is in a nice school somewhere and happy.

[WhosThatGirl]

14 minutes ago, oompa said:

I did like Frank's response to people wanting to riot: "In this heat?"

My takes:

• It was nice to get a little more neighborhood solidarity which has been missing in recent seasons.
• Frank talking about drinking until you feel good and coast? Yeah, right. He was just downing giant jars of Hobo Loco.
• The whole Carl-Debbie-Kelly love triangle was excruciating. Hopefully that is done, but I'm guessing not.
• I hate Lip. Maybe that is how you need to treat an alcoholic, but it just seems wrong.
• I hope Liam has secretly been adopted by a nice family, and he is in a nice school somewhere and happy.

Yeah I’m sorry the Frank speeches about drinking were ridiculous and as I said made my eyes roll. He thinks he’s a fun drunk? Hasn’t he been pretty aggressive and angry a few times and he’s always drunk.. that’s his thing so not really a fun drunk to me. I didn’t get it or find it funny or interesting.

I don’t know how I feel about Lip or fiona and even I who hates her behavior for this couple of episodes am not entirely clear she has a drinking problem. The problem is this show isn’t giving us a timeframe on how long she’s been doing this type of behavior. Has she been drinking/ettting drunk like this for a month or a couple months? A few weeks? A week? A few days? I do think she’s also showing show odd manic behavior as well, maybe the siblings should look into that as well. They do have that genetic in their family history as well. 

[Dee]

1 hour ago, oompa said:

The whole Carl-Debbie-Kelly love triangle was excruciating. Hopefully that is done, but I'm guessing not.

And the show just dropped Kassadi's entire existence altogether. Just terrible.

[nasir jones]

Pretty much a damn shame that Emmy Rossum will have spent 9 seasons on this show and never have gotten any award recognition.

I would never advocate violence, but if Carl had tossed Debby out of an open window (house, bus, moving car), I would've said, "Okay".  Pretty much all one needs to know about Debby is that she forgot Franny when she was leaving the house.

[misstwpherecool]

New casual part time viewer to show.

The show leaves a lot to be desired and usually lives up to it's title because it truely is 'shameless'.

And yes the jealous triangle thing was stupid. Overkill as usual.

The best character in this epi was the diner owner.

And yes that's how you have to treat an alcoholic/that is an actual belief or strategy. The alcoholic or addict hitting a rock bottom is real from what I've read, seen or observed. The alcoholic or addict has to want to stop on their own hence the motivation of a bottom. The bartender would've only enabled Fiona by letting her stay with them. Part of the bottom strategy is that the alcoholic must learn to take care of themselves including paying their own way. Favors no matter how seemingly innocent or well intended enable alcoholics and addicts. If for no other reason something like free/cheap leaves them more money to drink away.

[Chaos Theory]

Here is the thing.  Fiona has always been a hot mess.   She always chooses the asshole pussies who end up hurting her in one way or the other over the guy who treats her well.  It’s been like that since the first season.   Fiona wouldn’t know what to do with a guy who treated her well...actually she ends up cheating on him with his addict brother.  

I never really thought Fiona was an alcoholic.  I always thought her drinking and partying was a symptom of a much bigger problem.  She is addicted to bad men.  She is addicted to trouble.  She is addicted to anger.

Frank was essentially right about her (although very wrong about himself he is an asshole when he is drunk) Fiona is a mean angry drunk.   

[misstwpherecool]

11 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Here is the thing.  Fiona has always been a hot mess.   She always chooses the asshole pussies who end up hurting her in one way or the other over the guy who treats her well.  It’s been like that since the first season.   Fiona wouldn’t know what to do with a guy who treated her well...actually she ends up cheating on him with his addict brother.  

I never really thought Fiona was an alcoholic.  I always thought her drinking and partying was a symptom of a much bigger problem.  She is addicted to bad men.  She is addicted to trouble.  She is addicted to anger.

Frank was essentially right about her (although very wrong about himself he is an asshole when he is drunk) Fiona is a mean angry drunk.   

True the alcohol is not 'the' cause of her status. But the use/abuse of alcohol is. She's trying to fix or deal with relationship issues with the wrong tool. The right tool for the right job in this case is not alcohol, actually it should never be alcohol or drugs. This is why the rehab community frequently touts coping skills which is what Fiona and others lack. That is the tool they need and might find in rehab, meetings, therapy etc.

Frank had 'a' point but he's not 100%. I've seen alcohol amplify any emotion  including anger or mellow. I'm glad they threw in the narcissism line because narcissism is frequently associated with alcoholics.

[WhosThatGirl]

Maybe I’m alone but to me Frank had no points because he claims that he’s a fun drunk. He’s the most fun in the family because he’s drunk all the time. Uh, no he isn’t. He’s an angry aggressive drunk too. I’m sure the kids would all point that out. Wish Fiona had. That’s why frank to me had no points.

[Chaos Theory]

48 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Maybe I’m alone but to me Frank had no points because he claims that he’s a fun drunk. He’s the most fun in the family because he’s drunk all the time. Uh, no he isn’t. He’s an angry aggressive drunk too. I’m sure the kids would all point that out. Wish Fiona had. That’s why frank to me had no points.

Frank made two points.  

1. That he was a fun drunk -  wrong

2. Fiona was an angry drunk - right.

[misstwpherecool]

51 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Maybe I’m alone but to me Frank had no points because he claims that he’s a fun drunk. He’s the most fun in the family because he’s drunk all the time. Uh, no he isn’t. He’s an angry aggressive drunk too. I’m sure the kids would all point that out. Wish Fiona had. That’s why frank to me had no points.

I think part of the reason Frank considers himself a 'fun' drunk is he doesn't give a crap. If he doesn't care he wouldn't show extreme emotion. But yes I cannot picture a longtime drunk not getting angry or going off. I've seen it. Frank at the bar wouldn't get angry. Frank at home in private setting might because what little restraint or control he has would be dropped in a more comfortable venue.

Edited February 25, 2019 by misstwpherecool

[WhosThatGirl]

Just now, Chaos Theory said:

Frank made two points.  

1. That he was a fun drunk -  wrong

2. Fiona was an angry drunk - right.

Well I stopped listening when he claimed he was a fun drunk, I was rolling my eyes. And that’s what I mean, he lost me there and I couldn’t listen to anything else he said. I hope the show meant for that to be the case and not to take him serious.

[LibertarianSlut]

I was going to quote some posts, but so many people said what I was thinking so many times that I figured I'd just write my own post and hope you all can see me nodding in a cosmic sense.

I would give this episode a 5/10, which is actually high for this end of this season.  I will give my $.02 on the good, the bad and the ugly:

The Good:

-Lip and Tami's conversation on the Gallagher stairwell was cute.  I think Lip would be a good father.  I kinda just hope it's a boy, because I think he could get overprotective to the point of strangling with a little girl (did someone just say 'Xan'?)

-Frank (y'know, the homeless man sleeping outside) waking up, mumbling "blackout" to himself and knowing exactly what to do with this heretofore unseen professor.  That cracks me up.  Party of one.  

-I liked the Frank/Fiona scenes at The Alibi, until I realized this is just fan service/fan winking, and we are all supposed to be so excited about an Emmy/William H showdown, which made me say, eh...

-Frank letting Fiona and Lip fight it out and Frank reminding Lip that it wasn't easy raising six kids (even though one of those kids was Fiona, and she didn't raise them all, as Liam is, at most, 10).

-Franks's rant about the AA narcissists. That got two thumbs up from me.

-Fiona was hilarious at Patsy's.  From having a mysteriously blue mouth to taking cash off of a table for her tips to telling people at the counter that the eggs weren't cage free...brava.  Laugh out loud.

The Bad:

-The Kelly, Deb and Carl triangle.  So stupid and unfunny.  Carl, just fuck that Monica stand-in known as your boss and get it over with ok?

-Can we please get Ian back to balance out the show?

-Where is Liam?  Did they just write him out a la Judy from Family Matters?  To quote Pink Floyd, "Hello out there.  Can anybody help me?"

-Frank's good/drunk bad drunk speech.  Yes, Frank, you were a very fun drunk when you head-butted a teenaged Ian apropos of nothing in episode one.  Also, I'm sure the ice skating employees had a thrill of a time mopping up the gallons of blood you vomited onto their rink.  

-Kev, ya survived testicular cancer buddy, buck up.  Also, you got Vicodin the first time you got a vasectomy, but there's no sign of it now.  If anyone says he wouldn't be able to get another Vicodin prescription because he faked the first surgery, I disagree.  All he would have to do is explain exactly what happened--that he faked the first procedure--and he would get Vicodin to heal upon receiving the real snip.  

-The demographics of the blackout made no sense.  The South Side of Chicago comprises 27% of the residents of Chicago.  There is no mathematical way that upwards of 90% of the city could have gotten power back without the South Side having it. So, rather than say "South Side," which is about as generic as saying "Manhattan" in New York, call out the fact that your specific neighborhood doesn't have power.  Or did the producers think "Back of the Yards" would confuse the poor little viewer beyond all comprehension, so they had to dumb it down?

-This is the second group march initiated by Fiona without much or anything behind it in three episodes.  Methinks some producer or  cinematoprapher just likes the aesthetics of a group march, but ya gotta make it fit the plot, bud.  Though I did like the theme of the blackout.  It felt like a bottle episode.  

-Lip telling Fiona to "get to a meeting" when it hasn't even been established that she has a drinking problem vexed me.  On the one hand, I see Lip's side--that Fiona's current drinking is causing lots of problems and getting help that is free--a meeting--would be beneficial.  But please don't diagnose Fiona as an alcoholic, Lip.  It's too late in the game for that.  In my mind, Fiona simply has a maladaptive behavioral problem, which could be addressed in any number of ways.  She doesn't have to give her life and will up to the power of God, as AA states is the only way to get sober.  Where is Lia DeLaria?  Wasn't she supposed to be Lip's sponsor?  I want her back so badly to tell Lip to focus on his own shit!  Also, she's fabulous.  

-Lip and Fiona have each kicked each other out of the house at various times (Fiona when Lip wouldn't go back to college), and both siblings convinced the Ball/Fishers not to let their sibling stay with them.  I think that's a shitty thing to do in both instances.  If you're gonna kick out a sibling--whatever.  Don't go spoiling their stay at other parts of the neighborhood in your efforts to teach them a lesson though.  That's none of your business.  Vee's acting in that scene where she told Fiona she coudln't stay with her was so good that I don't know whether it was because of Lip or whether she was worried about Fiona around her kids (which she probably should have been).  So that may have gone into my 'good' category if I could have gotten a solid handle on the scene.

The Ugly

-Tami's sisters marching into Lip's place of work and threatening Lip with bodily harm if he doesn't take care of Tami and this baby when they know nothing about the situation was gross.  I fucking hate women like Brad's wife who act all gangsta when they think they can.  Hey, how much of a badass were you, bitch, when your husband was out fucking other women and left you with a new baby to get drunk and mutilate a statue of Michael Jordan?  Cause I know where Lip was--right by Brad's side.  Lip literally saved Brad's life, while all the wife could do was stand on the porch to hear Brad say "happy birthday."  Now she is going to threaten Lip about taking care of the child that he desperately wants to take care of?  Girl, bye.  

[Chaos Theory]

14 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Well I stopped listening when he claimed he was a fun drunk, I was rolling my eyes. And that’s what I mean, he lost me there and I couldn’t listen to anything else he said. I hope the show meant for that to be the case and not to take him serious.

Well I thought the conversation was interesting because he was actually trying to help Fiona in his own way.  Just like he did when he tried to chastise Lip for kicking Fiona out.   He actually made a point that it wasn’t easy raising a bunch of kids on your own... I do think he ruined the point when he took most of the credit and said Fiona only “helped” but the point was still a valid one.  Just like the point he made to Fiona.  Frank thinks he is a fun drunk but he is able to see how angry Fiona is.....and is at least trying to help even if he think AA is stupid.

You know the old joke AA is for quitters.  

As for all the “where is Liam” posts.  It may be a simple matter of the actor not being available because he is still a minor and has reached his time limit.  They may be saving him for Fiona’s last two episodes.  Why waste him on background stuff?

Edited February 25, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[heatherchandler]

On 2/24/2019 at 2:16 AM, Dee said:

Tammy, her sisters AND Kelly get entire stories to themselves yet Liam is STILL nowhere to be found. Stay Classy, Shameless.

Ehhh I don't really watch this show for the kid's stories.  So, I am fine with him being missing.  Also, Liam is a good kid, and that's not really fun to watch.

2 hours ago, misstwpherecool said:

New casual part time viewer to show.

The show is good - but this season is not it's best.  I suggest you watch the earlier seasons, they were really good.  

[scrb]

Frank had a reaction shot when they all got back from the aborted march and then Fiona was ranting to them for bailing on the march.  Really going off the rails with the drinking.

They had a quick cutaway and Bill Macy showed this sadness that his daughter was unhappy.

But he didn't say or do anything about it -- father of the year candidate!

Now maybe she'll get better with AA but Frank's not about that AA bullshit. 

[WhosThatGirl]

1 hour ago, scrb said:

Frank had a reaction shot when they all got back from the aborted march and then Fiona was ranting to them for bailing on the march.  Really going off the rails with the drinking.

They had a quick cutaway and Bill Macy showed this sadness that his daughter was unhappy.

But he didn't say or do anything about it -- father of the year candidate!

Now maybe she'll get better with AA but Frank's not about that AA bullshit. 

Yup. Again maybe I’m alone but the Frank and Fiona stuff wasn’t.. good to me? It was just disconcerting to me. I mean it’s supposed to be funny that Frank is all “I couldn’t have done it without her” in raising the kids because ha ha ha he didn’t do it at all, you guys, get it?!?! But it isn’t. It just feels like WHM and ER maybe wanted some final scenes together and this is what came of it. This whole episode just felt off. But hey I’m one viewer. So whatever. Others enjoyed it. I did not.

[Dee]

3 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

-Lip and Fiona have each kicked each other out of the house at various times (Fiona when Lip wouldn't go back to college)

Fiona never kicked Lip out. Lip chose to leave.

[preeya]

43 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yup. Again maybe I’m alone but the Frank and Fiona stuff wasn’t.. good to me? It was just disconcerting to me. I mean it’s supposed to be funny that Frank is all “I couldn’t have done it without her” in raising the kids because ha ha ha he didn’t do it at all, you guys, get it?!?! But it isn’t. It just feels like WHM and ER maybe wanted some final scenes together and this is what came of it. This whole episode just felt off. But hey I’m one viewer. So whatever. Others enjoyed it. I did not.

I'm with you. I haven't enjoyed this entire season. IMHO the next two episodes should be the SERIES FINALE! End of story.

[whiporee]

46 minutes ago, Dee said:

Fiona never kicked Lip out. Lip chose to leave.

She kicked him out when he dropped out of high school -- or she said he couldn't live there if he wasn't going to school. We've been with these crazy kids a long time. 

6 hours ago, misstwpherecool said:

True the alcohol is not 'the' cause of her status. But the use/abuse of alcohol is. She's trying to fix or deal with relationship issues with the wrong tool. The right tool for the right job in this case is not alcohol, actually it should never be alcohol or drugs.

Fiona is addicted to chaos. it's what she grew up in; it's what she knows. it's why every time she gets an honest chance to settle down -- with the cop, or with Gus, or with Mike -- she screws it up. She can't help it. The stuff with the apartments, or with Irish Guy, or whatever, was all getting too normal for her and she's perpetually waiting for the other shoe to drop. So she sabotaged it. I mean, after Sean, can you really see Fiona getting THAT upset over a guy? it doesn't make sense until you put it into the overall picture, and then it kind of does. 

I hope that Tami finds out how smart Lip is and makes him go back to school. Nothing wrong with being a motorcycle repair dude, but with a child on the way she ought to insist he do all he can to improve their lives. 

And I have to agree with Frank on one thing. I lived in Chicago for a decade (albeit on the North Side), and my dad's second wife's family were Midwesterners, and there's not a lot meaner drunk than a Midwestern vodka drunk. (sorry if that's offensive to any Midwestern vodka drinkers:) When I saw Fiona pounding vodka, I could see that very exchange happening. 

Edited February 25, 2019 by whiporee

[Dee]

15 minutes ago, whiporee said:

She kicked him out when he dropped out of high school -- or she said he couldn't live there if he wasn't going to school.

Right. But it was ultimately Lip's choice to leave. That was the entire point of his mid-late Season 2 arc.

[LibertarianSlut]

https://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/shameless-season-2-lookbackreview/50053/shameless-season-2-lookbackreview

"when Ian discovers West Point is really interested in Lip, the two brothers have a massive falling out which causes Lip to drop out of high school. This awakens the feral den mother within Fiona who kicks Lip out of the house for repeating her mistakes. As luck would have it, Lip ends up living in the penthouse of a returned Steve and Estefania"

This recap says Fiona kicked Lip out, but recaps are sometimes wrong.  My husband and I did a full-series re-watch in November, and we agree that Lip was not welcome to stay in the home, but, ok, I'll concede the point for the larger point:  

Whether Lip left as a result of an ultimatum, or Fiona kicked him out (or if there is a difference), I thought it was shitty of Fiona to go to Kev then and shitty of Lip to go to Vee now to get the Fisher/Balls to take sides and to put them in the middle of a sibling-on-sibling argument.  I just think it's manipulative and it's too far of an extension of power.  I see the interventionists do this on Intervention all the time.  They try to get the "addict" to "hit bottom" by putting pressure on third parties. That's not your place, whoever you are (Lip, in this instance).  All you can do is withdraw your own personal support, but you can't exert any more control than that IMO, unless that person is danger to others.  

Look what happened with Lip--as the recap reminded me--he wound up in a penthouse staring at Estefania's ass on the elliptical.  When ya ask someone to leave, beware of them finding better digs.  That's the risk. 

[chocolatine]

I think the scene between Frank and Fiona was brilliant *because* Frank was wrong. It was the moment when Fiona realized that if she keeps drinking she'll end up a delusional loser like Frank. *That* is her rock bottom.

[WhosThatGirl]

3 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I think the scene between Frank and Fiona was brilliant *because* Frank was wrong. It was the moment when Fiona realized that if she keeps drinking she'll end up a delusional loser like Frank. *That* is her rock bottom.

Yeah but to me she didn’t realize it until the next morning. After his big speech she was still drinking and hanging around and then the BBQ happened and then the not riot. She didn’t realize until she woke up and hungover and realized she can’t hang the way Frank can. Which I guess is also a rock bottom, she doesn’t want to be a professional Alcoholic but his speech didn’t do it. If anything his speech just kept her drinking to prove a point to him that she’s a fun drunk, just like him. 

[Dee]

3 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

https://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/shameless-season-2-lookbackreview/50053/shameless-season-2-lookbackreview

Fiona who kicks Lip out

Except Fiona doesn't kick Lip out.

What Fiona says to Lip is attend school or you can't live here. Lip CHOOSES to no longer attend school & proceeds to storm out of the house.

That is NOT the same thing.

Lip should've known better to have gone to Kev & Vee's for shelter because Vee's allegiance was always gonna be to Fiona primarily. Yes, she considers the rest of the Gallaghers family, but Fiona is her BFF (which all the Gallaghers knew).

Lip wasn't wrong to tell Vee not to harbor Fiona, however him having to do so indicates how incredibly weak the writing has been.

Fiona is spiraling out of control for weeks/months and Vee did nothing? There's no mention of any kind of contact between Vee/Fee, at any point in the episode, just a guilty look from Veronica as Lip scolded her.

None of that rings remotely true for Vee & Fiona's bond, especially in the aftermath of what happened with Svetlana.

But then the writers write from episode to episode, and have no time for character arcs, so I should hardly be surprised.

Edited February 26, 2019 by Dee

[kathe5133]

You can't make someone hit rock bottom.  How many "bottoms" has Frank hit?  I'd saying frying a liver was as rock bottom as one could get, yet it didn't slow him down.  Lip was behaving like a sanctimonious prick.  It's fine if he wants Fiona out of the house, but to put pressure on her friends to force her to sleep in an abandoned building is cruel.  He was not trying to get Fiona to stop drinking, he was punishing her because she was.  If Fiona is smart, she'll get out of dodge and leave these sullen, selfish, assholes behind!  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Hambone: the most ridiculous potential baby name since Drizzle.

[Skyflower]

it was an amazing episode, cant wait to number 13!!!

[iMonrey]

So when the social worker came to pick up Xan (?) Frank was passed out on the front porch. It's equally possible he might have been there the first time he came to inspect the living conditions. Would Lip have blamed Fiona for that as well? The truth is that whole house is a chaotic mess and it has nothing to do with Fiona's alcoholism. Not that she doesn't have a problem, I'm just saying Lip took out all his frustrations about Xan on her without just cause.

[Dee]

Also, Lip saying that if Fiona was sober she would've been able to hustle her way through the surprise interview makes no sense, because the last surprise DCFS visit Fiona was a part of, resulted in the rest of the kids (including Lip & Ian) being removed from Fiona's care.

[WhosThatGirl]

38 minutes ago, Dee said:

Also, Lip saying that if Fiona was sober she would've been able to hustle her way through the surprise interview makes no sense, because the last surprise DCFS visit Fiona was a part of, resulted in the rest of the kids (including Lip & Ian) being removed from Fiona's care.

Actually the last surprise was when Fiona was in jail because of the Liam incident so she wasn’t even around. But hey we aren’t supposed to remember that at all.

And the problem is I’m not sure if Fiona has a drinking problem. The problem is that yes while all the kids are predisposed because of frank to have one, the timeline of how long fiona has been acting like this isn’t clear to me. With Lip, they addressed the timeline that it has been going on for some time. With Fiona who knows how long this has been going on. Again as I brought up in another post I brought up maybe they should also address another predisposed genetic of her manic behavior as of late as well. 

Edited February 26, 2019 by WhosThatGirl

[taanja]

Fiona is breaking my heart. My girl -- down so low. Her story has been bittersweet.

I did love Frank telling her that she's a mean drunk. and yup-- there are two kinds -- the happy go lucky type like Frank himself and the angry drunk who gets in fights and yells and screams and it never ends well. 

I don't know how I want/hope it ends for Fiona??? and I am unspoiled but I hope it all ends well for my girl.

[Dee]

3 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Actually the last surprise was when Fiona was in jail

Which is why I specified the last surprise visit Fiona was a part of in my previous post.

Edited February 26, 2019 by Dee

[forevertwentynine]

On 2/25/2019 at 11:37 AM, misstwpherecool said:

New casual part time viewer to show.

The show leaves a lot to be desired and usually lives up to it's title because it truely is 'shameless'.

And yes the jealous triangle thing was stupid. Overkill as usual.

The best character in this epi was the diner owner.

And yes that's how you have to treat an alcoholic/that is an actual belief or strategy. The alcoholic or addict hitting a rock bottom is real from what I've read, seen or observed. The alcoholic or addict has to want to stop on their own hence the motivation of a bottom. The bartender would've only enabled Fiona by letting her stay with them. Part of the bottom strategy is that the alcoholic must learn to take care of themselves including paying their own way. Favors no matter how seemingly innocent or well intended enable alcoholics and addicts. If for no other reason something like free/cheap leaves them more money to drink away.

You should go back to the beginning, when the show was still really good.  The bartender is her best friend, and Lip is a hypocrite because she didn't do that to him when he was a drunk loser.

[Tikichick]

When Fiona is overwhelmed and doesn't see a path out she turns to drinking and destruction mode.  Therefore drinking is definitely a problem for her -- particularly as it amps up her destructive and aggressive tendencies.  Lip was absolutely right to talk to Vee to make her see that enabling Fiona's drinking and destruction cycle will only increase the damage and make it less likely she'll ever climb out again.  Vee couldn't accept it until she stood back and observed Fiona drinking at the bar some more and realized that giving Fiona shelter wasn't giving her any incentive to get it together.    

[iMonrey]

I was glad at least to hear Fiona remind Lip her name is on the title of that house during their screaming match, but she ended up taking her stuff and leaving anyway. Is it that she knows Lip can physically prevent her from getting into the house? 

I get what Lip is trying to do but . . . this just isn't how it works. Fiona owns that house, period. She can call the cops and kick Lip out of there along with the rest of them if she wants to. It doesn't matter how drunk she is, that's how property ownership works.

[whiporee]

One of the things that has been constant through the series is the Gallagher open house/kicked out policy. It seems that any of them are free to invite anyone to stay for any reason, and it also seems that if someone is kicked out of the house (except Frank), they stay out. That seems to be Gallagher code. 

I mean, at ay of the times the siblings have been kicked out, they could have just come back. Debbie and Lip have each kicked Fiona out, and she complied even though she's the actual owner of the house. Fiona kicked out Lip (or at least told him to leave until he was back in school) and he did. I think she did the same to Debbie at one point -- I think they've all been kicked out at one point or another. And while any number of strangers/hangers-on have moved in, when a Gallagher is asked to leave, they leave. 

Except Frank. Because, you know, Frank. 

[Dee]

Fiona's never kicked Debbie out.

She's threatened to kick Debbie out, when Debbie was pregnant with Franny, but ultimately never followed through.

Fiona asks the bare minimum of her siblings (except Lip & Ian who she expected to contribute more). She has never kicked any of her siblings out of the house, despite threatening to do so on several occasions, most of which involved extenuating circumstances.

The only Gallaghers Fiona has genuinely kicked out, and actually expected to leave, have been Peggy, Sammy & Frank. Because...well....Peggy, Sammy & Frank.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

You're a bad drunk: