Characters That Got A Raw Deal

[Haleth]

On 12/17/2020 at 2:31 PM, blueray said:

Remus Lupin: His father pisses off a werewolf, to only have that werewolf attack him as revenge turning him as a kid. So he lost most of his childhood as there is no cure. He then starting school (the best time of his life) and makes friends. Only to watch as two of them die at 21, one become evil and the other one be wrongly accused of murder. Then after Sirius is found not guilty, him and Lupin start to become close again only for Sirius to be murdered. Then a few years later, Lupin himself and his wife are murdered, leaving their few month old son an orphan. Poor Lupin, who is an awesome character and deserved a lot better.

It was totally unnecessary for JKR to knock them off.  It served no purpose other than to create melodrama.

[Spartan Girl]

You know, a lot of other HP characters could fill this thread:

Dumbledore’s family, whose lives were destroyed by Ariana’s assault. Ariana mentally damaged and traumatized, the dad sent to Azkaban for avenging her, the mom accidentally gets killed by Ariana, Ariana accidentally getting killed by her brothers or Grindelwald, Albus and Aberforth left guilt ridden and estranged.

The Longbottoms were driven to insanity, a fate arguably worse than death.

Harry himself went through hell and back throughout his whole life, even though he survived and went on to have a happier life.

[Spartan Girl]

Andromache from The Iliad. Loses her parents, brothers, husband, and even her baby in the Trojan War, and just like Hector predicted, she winds up a slave. But at least the recent Trojan War retelling A Thousand Ships by Natalie Haynes is able to give her a happyish ending.

[Black Knight]

On 1/24/2021 at 3:08 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Andromache from The Iliad. Loses her parents, brothers, husband, and even her baby in the Trojan War, and just like Hector predicted, she winds up a slave. But at least the recent Trojan War retelling A Thousand Ships by Natalie Haynes is able to give her a happyish ending.

I haven't read the Haynes book, so I don't know what she does with Andromache in it, but even in classical mythology, Andromache eventually wound up becoming a queen when she married Hector's brother, who had ascended the throne after the death of her captor.

[GreekGeek]

On 2/25/2021 at 3:28 PM, Black Knight said:

I haven't read the Haynes book, so I don't know what she does with Andromache in it, but even in classical mythology, Andromache eventually wound up becoming a queen when she married Hector's brother, who had ascended the throne after the death of her captor.

Yes, she became queen of Epirus (not Troy, that was gone).

[Spartan Girl]

12 hours ago, GreekGeek said:

Yes, she became queen of Epirus (not Troy, that was gone).

And that’s what is alluded to in Haynes’ book, and from the way she tells it, it’s a sort-of-happy ending, definitely a step up from being Neoptolemus’ slave, but at the same time, she still deeply scarred for her ordeals and still mourns Hector and Astanyax. 

Pretty much all of the characters in Tiger Hills by Sarita Mandanna get a raw deal, some of it by circumstance and some by their own making. I’d elaborate more but it would give away the whole story...

[kathyk24]

Harry Dresden belongs here too. His parents die at a young age and his guardian is abusive. Both women Harry falls in love with die leaving him with a daughter to raise. He does have a good relationship with his half brother and his best friend. He's literally been to Hell and back.

[Spartan Girl]

Poor Amy Dudley in The Virgin’s Lover by Philippe Gregory. Her husband was a piece of shit, treating her like crap and pretty much dumping her for Queen Elizabeth I, leaving her behind to stay with “friends” (because she doesn’t own her own property) while he’s off gallivanting at court. And she winds up murdered because of his power-hunger ambition.

[Spartan Girl]

Someone on Twitter summed it up best when they said that Tess of the D’Ubervilles’ life was pretty much one middle finger after the other.

Also should give mention to poor Nancy of Oliver Twist. 

[GreekGeek]

On 6/29/2021 at 9:24 PM, Spartan Girl said:

 

Also should give mention to poor Nancy of Oliver Twist. 

Dickens could be a real jerk to his women characters who weren't sweet and girly-girly, or perfect loyal wives or motherly figures. Take Louisa Gradgrind in Hard Times. Sure, she was a cold fish, but that's how she was raised to be. She's married off to the pompous blowhard Bounderby, who is twice her age, is tempted to cheat on him, and has a breakdown when her feelings become too much for her. Is she allowed to divorce Bounderby, find someone nicer and closer to her own age, and get a happy ending? Nope, she's doomed to spinsterhood at twenty-two. 

[peacheslatour]

13 hours ago, GreekGeek said:

Dickens could be a real jerk to his women characters who weren't sweet and girly-girly, or perfect loyal wives or motherly figures. Take Louisa Gradgrind in Hard Times. Sure, she was a cold fish, but that's how she was raised to be. She's married off to the pompous blowhard Bounderby, who is twice her age, is tempted to cheat on him, and has a breakdown when her feelings become too much for her. Is she allowed to divorce Bounderby, find someone nicer and closer to her own age, and get a happy ending? Nope, she's doomed to spinsterhood at twenty-two. 

Charles Dickens was a major jerk. Great writer though.

[GreekGeek]

6 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Charles Dickens was a major jerk. Great writer though.

I know that he was horrible to his wife and cheated on her with an actress. I'm not familiar with other examples of his jerkitude, though.

[peacheslatour]

9 minutes ago, GreekGeek said:

I know that he was horrible to his wife and cheated on her with an actress. I'm not familiar with other examples of his jerkitude, though.

This is one thing I know about, he cheated on his first wife and after a messy divorce that tore their family apart the Dickens children were sent to live with various relatives and their father alternated between over protective doting, and pushing his children into brutal Victorian military service when they were still in their early teens. With only a couple of exceptions, all of the Dickens children led lives of failure and mediocrity.

9 minutes ago, GreekGeek said:

I know that he was horrible to his wife and cheated on her with an actress. I'm not familiar with other examples of his jerkitude, though.

This is one thing I know about, he cheated on his first wife and after a messy divorce that tore their family apart the Dickens children were sent to live with various relatives and their father alternated between over protective doting, and pushing his children into brutal Victorian military service when they were still in their early teens. With only a couple of exceptions, all of the Dickens children led lives of failure and mediocrity.

[Ohiopirate02]

16 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

This is one thing I know about, he cheated on his first wife and after a messy divorce that tore their family apart the Dickens children were sent to live with various relatives and their father alternated between over protective doting, and pushing his children into brutal Victorian military service when they were still in their early teens. With only a couple of exceptions, all of the Dickens children led lives of failure and mediocrity.

 

Charles also kept his wife from seeing her children.  In Victorian England, children were considered the property of the father and the mother had no rights to them.  They never officially divorced just legally separated.  Charles then used his wife's sister to manage his household and children.  Later his eldest daughter took over some of the duties.  All the while, Charles was with his younger mistress.  His mistress, Ellen Ternan was younger than Charles's eldest 2 children.  

[Spartan Girl]

I can’t believe I haven’t thought of this before, but poor Anna in My Sister’s Keeper. Born to be a donor child, her parents (well, her mom more than her dad) expecting her to sacrifice her own health for her terminally ill sister who might not have survived the transplant, and then being treated like a pariah for suing for the rights to own body when she was in a position her parents never should have put her in to begin with. The fact that Kate asked her to do it because she was worn out by constant treatments and transplants is irrelevant. And that AWFUL ending 

Spoiler

Where she gets killed in a car crash. I’d like to think her mother spent the rest of her miserable life feeling like her wish to save Kate had been granted on a monkey’s paw, but I’m not holding my breath.

 

[Spartan Girl]

Hannah in The Light Between Oceans lost her husband and spent years thinking that her baby daughter was dead, and when she finally gets her back, is initially rejected by her, leaving her to make the the difficult choice of possibly returning her to Isabel, the woman that stole her. Yes, it all worked out for Hannah in the end, but she still went through a lot. She deserved way more sympathy than Isabel, who thought having a couple miscarriages entitled her to a child and nearly got Tom sent to death row for not telling the truth.

And even though I thought Tom was a moron for forgiving Isabel after everything she put him through, I think he got a raw deal too. He should not have been guilted into keeping the baby for so long, and for her to punish him after he finally did the right thing was just despicable.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[proserpina65]

On 10/23/2021 at 7:52 AM, Spartan Girl said:

Hannah in The Light Between Oceans lost her husband and spent years thinking that her baby daughter was dead, and when she finally gets her back, is initially rejected by her, leaving her to make the the difficult choice of possibly returning her to Isabel, the woman that stole her. Yes, it all worked out for Hannah in the end, but she still went through a lot. She deserved way more sympathy than Isabel, who thought having a couple miscarriages entitled her to a child and nearly got Tom sent to death row for not telling the truth.

And even though I thought Tom was a moron for forgiving Isabel after everything she put him through, I think he got a raw deal too. He should not have been guilted into keeping the baby for so long, and for her to punish him after he finally did the right thing was just despicable.

I loathed that book because of how Hannah and Tom were treated, while I was expected to save my sympathy for poor Isabel.

[Grrarrggh]

I still feel bad for Dora from Anne of Avonlea. Davy is practically a psychopath and yet Anne and Marilla don't like Dora because she's good?! Seriously?! I also hated how Anne only keyed in only on her male pupils. Imagine if Miss Stacy had done that. Where would Anne be now, huh? 

[Wiendish Fitch]

Just now, Grrarrggh said:

I still feel bad for Dora from Anne of Avonlea. Davy is practically a psychopath and yet Anne and Marilla don't like Dora because she's good?! Seriously?! I also hated how Anne only keyed in only on her male pupils. Imagine if Miss Stacy had done that. Where would Anne be now, huh? 

Yeah, I hated that little demon spawn Davy. I mean, he was actually upset that he didn't get to see his sister fall down the stairs! WTF??? Cue the score from The Omen! It really bothered me how Anne fawned over that little sociopath. I honestly couldn't read any more in the series after that. 

[Grrarrggh]

I also feel bad for Petra Arkanian from the Ender's Game/Ender's Shadow series. She starts off in EG as one of the best commanders in the school, the only Jeesh member to get a message out when they're kidnapped, etc. etc. But Orson Scott Card just can't help himself and not only has her be the commander who breaks during the War, but also goes on to turn her into some misogynists' ideal, desperate to be pregnant and married. Then again what else can you expect from a person with bigoted, sexist beliefs like OSC? 

[Bali]

On 2/19/2019 at 1:19 AM, Neko said:

What about Jeyne Poole?  I don't even want to think about the raw deal she got. **shudder**

I might be the only person on the planet earth who thinks Amy and Laurie made a lot more sense than Jo and Laurie.

Nope. There are at least two of us. Jo and Laurie fought too much to be happy in the long run. Amy grew up and became a calming influence on him. He and Jo would have spent their lives arguing. Not good.

[Bali]

I have a lot of sympathy for Mr. Rochester. Her family hid the illness from him. She tried to kill him on multiple occasions. She kept trying to set him and his belongings on fire. We aren't talking about a slight case of depression. We are talking about a truly psychotic homical pyromaniac. It was illegal for him to divorce her. He should earn points for not shoving her into an asylum, as most in that time period would have. You need to look at the whole time period THEN when judging him. He tried to avoid Jane, but here's someone who you can talk to vs. someone who tries to kill you, flies at your head, and is abusive in every way. 

If Berta was a man and Rochester the woman, would you still feel that he got a raw deal? 

[Haleth]

I sympathize with Rochester only so far as he was tricked into marrying Bertha and was stuck with her as long as she lived. But then he tried and almost succeeded in tricking Jane as well. He knew she was too proper to have anything to do with a married man, so he neglected to mention the crazy wife in the attic. Points for taking care of Bertha?  More like hiding the fact she existed so he could have a normal life. 

[peacheslatour]

3 hours ago, Haleth said:

I sympathize with Rochester only so far as he was tricked into marrying Bertha and was stuck with her as long as she lived. But then he tried and almost succeeded in tricking Jane as well. He knew she was too proper to have anything to do with a married man, so he neglected to mention the crazy wife in the attic. Points for taking care of Bertha?  More like hiding the fact she existed so he could have a normal life. 

Well, he could have just killed her. I don't think anyone would have been the wiser. She got a rotten deal too, being insane wasn't her fault. 

[BlackberryJam]

I'm #TeamBertha all the way, no matter how crazy she was. 

Rochester was a creep to Jane, aside from his treatment of Bertha. I mean, aside from lying to her about Bertha, he cross-dressed as a gypsy to trick her into confessing her love and lies to her about an engagement to another woman. Manipulative Creep. Jane should have grabbed Adele and ran. 

[Wiendish Fitch]

3 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

I'm #TeamBertha all the way, no matter how crazy she was. 

Rochester was a creep to Jane, aside from his treatment of Bertha. I mean, aside from lying to her about Bertha, he cross-dressed as a gypsy to trick her into confessing her love and lies to her about an engagement to another woman. Manipulative Creep. Jane should have grabbed Adele and ran. 

THANK YOU.

Not to mention he all but chained Bertha in the attic like a circus animal, fed her a diet of gruel, and with only a drunken idiot like Grace Poole for company. Not to mention what an absolute compulsive liar he is (the gypsy disguise thing is too messed up). I'm also 100% certain Rochester's is Adele's real father, and he endangered that poor child by secretly hiding an unstable woman (who has a habit of unexpectedly breaking out of her imprisonment) in his own house. Bertha is a threat to herself and others, and he kept a kid around?! WTF, dude???!

 

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Wiendish Fitch

[Blergh]

Yeah, let's not forget   Adele got abandoned by her mother at an early age, then taken to a foreign country where she didn't know anyone else besides her mother's onetime flame Rochester AND gets looked down upon by her new governess for actually continuing to speak with a French accent and entertaining herself with singing and dancing.   Even at the end of the book, the 2nd Mrs. Rochester seems smug that Adele's losing her supposedly bad 'French' habits. I imagine that she likely had clung to the singing and dancing from feeling so overwhelmed by the situation (and not have to think about  all those strange crying and laughing sounds in the night). 

[Wiendish Fitch]

On 12/2/2021 at 5:33 PM, Blergh said:

Yeah, let's not forget   Adele got abandoned by her mother at an early age, then taken to a foreign country where she didn't know anyone else besides her mother's onetime flame Rochester AND gets looked down upon by her new governess for actually continuing to speak with a French accent and entertaining herself with singing and dancing.   Even at the end of the book, the 2nd Mrs. Rochester seems smug that Adele's losing her supposedly bad 'French' habits. I imagine that she likely had clung to the singing and dancing from feeling so overwhelmed by the situation (and not have to think about  all those strange crying and laughing sounds in the night). 

Well, damn.

Hey, Jane? There are psychological benefits to singing and dancing, maybe you ought to try it, you dour, self-righteous cow!

[SomeTameGazelle]

2 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Well, damn.

Hey, Jane? There are psychological benefits to singing and dancing, maybe you ought to try it, you dour, self-righteous cow!

Jane loves Adèle and does not want to be separated from her when Rochester is planning to marry Blanche Ingram.

Does anyone have the citation of Jane looking down on Adèle for singing and dancing? The closest I can come is when she meets Adèle and Adèle performs a song that Jane thinks is inappropriate for a little girl, but she definitely doesn't scold Adele for it. I did find a part where she thinks about Adèle's "superficiality of character" which she attributes to her foreignness, but the stress is on how despite this feeling she allows Adèle to be herself and loves her for the good in her.

Quote

The subject seemed strangely chosen for an infant singer; but I suppose the point of the exhibition lay in hearing the notes of love and jealousy warbled with the lisp of childhood; and in very bad taste that point was: at least I thought so.

Quote

 When we went in, and I had removed her bonnet and coat, I took her on my knee; kept her there an hour, allowing her to prattle as she liked: not rebuking even some little freedoms and trivialities into which she was apt to stray when much noticed, and which betrayed in her a superficiality of character, inherited probably from her mother, hardly congenial to an English mind. Still she had her merits; and I was disposed to appreciate all that was good in her to the utmost.

 

[proserpina65]

On 12/11/2021 at 2:43 PM, SomeTameGazelle said:

Jane loves Adèle and does not want to be separated from her when Rochester is planning to marry Blanche Ingram.

Does anyone have the citation of Jane looking down on Adèle for singing and dancing? The closest I can come is when she meets Adèle and Adèle performs a song that Jane thinks is inappropriate for a little girl, but she definitely doesn't scold Adele for it. I did find a part where she thinks about Adèle's "superficiality of character" which she attributes to her foreignness, but the stress is on how despite this feeling she allows Adèle to be herself and loves her for the good in her.

 

Jane Eyre was a dull prig.  I hated her.  I hated the book.  I tried re-reading it after seeing the film version of Wide Sargasso Sea, hoping that picturing Nathaniel Parker as Rochester would improve it.  Unfortunately it did not.

[Spartan Girl]

Valerie in Hate List by Jennifer Brown. Everyone blames her for her boyfriend shooting up the school all because of a dumb list they did together of all the people they hated. Even though the cops clear her of being involved, people still blame her—even her own parents. Her asshole dad wants to just shop her back to a psych ward, not to get her help but because he just wants her out of his life.

The only people who are even remotely understanding to Valerie are her therapist (who is way more of a father to her than that sperm doner) and her former bully. And her father’s girlfriend, although why she still stays with him after witnessing the way he treats his own daughter, I’ll never understand.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[SomeTameGazelle]

On 12/15/2021 at 2:10 PM, proserpina65 said:

Jane Eyre was a dull prig.

To each her own. I consider her an interesting prig.

[Spartan Girl]

I know I already listed Mariam in A Thousand Splendid Suns, but I just realized that almost all of the characters in Khalid Hosseini’s novels could qualify for this thread!

The Kite Runner: Hassan and his wife are murdered by the Taliban, Rahim Khan dies alone of cancer, poor little Sohrab is so traumatized by being molested that even the suggestion of a temporary stay at the orphanage while Amir goes through the process of adopting him is enough for him to attempt suicide—and even after that it’s unclear if he’ll ever be really happy with Amir and Soraya (though the ending lets us have some hope).

Edited to add: Oh man, how did I ever forget about poor Ali? Orphaned as a child, endures a lifetime of ridicule for his polio-damaged leg, deserted not by one but TWO wives, one of whom cheats on him with the man he considers a brother, and to top it all off, he is killed by accidentally stepping on a landmine. Hassan was the one good thing in his whole life, and for both their sakes, I really hope Ali never found out that he wasn't his biological father.

A Thousand Splendid Suns: Aside from Mariam, I think Laila’s dad/Hakim got a raw deal, being constantly blamed by his wife for their sons dying in war and her making him so miserable that I wish he would have just taken Laila and left the country sooner—that way he wouldn’t have been killed by the rocket falling on their house. And as much as I dislike how Nana treated Mariam, I will have to concede that she too had a rough life, being branded unweddable first by her epilepsy then by Jalil impregnating her, which led her father to disown her. Of course she could have made things easier for herself by not taking it out on Mariam, but I digress…

And the Mountains Echoed: Literally tons of tragic characters, but the fact that Abdullah and Pari don’t reunite until he’s so deep in Alzheimer’s that he can’t remember her at all is just unfair.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[Spartan Girl]

Did anyone really think it was fair how Susan was written out of the Narnia books? Being dismissed by her family as turning into a silly shallow girl just because she got into wearing makeup and nylons and having forgotten about Narnia? And then (we assume) bring the sole survivor of the train crash, leaving her alone while her family goes back to Narnia/Heaven for good?

Yeah. Neither did I. 

[JustHereForFood]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

Did anyone really think it was fair how Susan was written out of the Narnia books? Being dismissed by her family as turning into a silly shallow girl just because she got into wearing makeup and nylons and having forgotten about Narnia? And then (we assume) bring the sole survivor of the train crash, leaving her alone while her family goes back to Narnia/Heaven for good?

Yeah. Neither did I. 

I never read those books, only watched the movies, but yeah. I've read a few takes on how sexist this series is, which is not so surprising, considering all the christian themes.

[Anduin]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Did anyone really think it was fair how Susan was written out of the Narnia books? Being dismissed by her family as turning into a silly shallow girl just because she got into wearing makeup and nylons and having forgotten about Narnia? And then (we assume) bring the sole survivor of the train crash, leaving her alone while her family goes back to Narnia/Heaven for good?

Yeah. Neither did I. 

There has to be consequences for becoming an atheist. No, I'm not given to religion. But Lewis was pretty devout, that was probably what he was thinking. Actually, I always thought that she would live out her life. Upon death, she'd be reunited with the others in the true Narnia. Essentially, she takes the slow path but gets there in the end. Neil Gaiman wrote a short story, The Problem of Susan, which IIRC deals with something like that. I'll see if I can dig it up in the morning and read it again. If so, I'll share the link.

[Anduin]

I found it! I'm not in the mood to read it right now, but feel free to do so yourself.

[Spartan Girl]

6 hours ago, Anduin said:

I found it! I'm not in the mood to read it right now, but feel free to do so yourself.

Thank goodness for Neil Gaiman but my point still stands that CS Lewis did Susan dirty. Being an atheist doesn’t automatically make you a bad person IMO.

[JustHereForFood]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

Thank goodness for Neil Gaiman but my point still stands that CS Lewis did Susan dirty. Being an atheist doesn’t automatically make you a bad person IMO.

Well, of course not, but try to explain that to some religious people 😄.

[Spartan Girl]

As much as I despise Lena Gray in The Glass Lake, I did think it was unfair to kill her off at the end just when she finally woke up to what a douche Louis was and had finally managed to have a relationship with Kit.

[Grrarrggh]

On 4/24/2022 at 11:41 AM, JustHereForFood said:

Well, of course not, but try to explain that to some religious people 😄.

Some fanatics you mean. 

[Bali]

I'm still pro-Jane and anti Bertha. Think of it this way Bertha is Amber Heard, but instead of pooping on the bed, she's setting it on fire- with him still in it. That would get old really fast. He wasn't allowed to divorce her. And being kept in the attic was better than being in Bedlam which is where she belonged. She is an arsonist and a psychotic killer. We have no issue with putting arsonists behind bars, but condemn him for having to remain married to her-even after she stabbed him. I guess my line in the sand is "Once you try to murder me, I no longer have sympathy for you."

[Spartan Girl]

Sejanus in The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes. One of the few decent people in the entire book who called out the Capitol and the Hunger Games for their monstrosities, and was willing to actually do something about it. And he winds up hanged, betrayed by the one person he considered a friend.

[Spartan Girl]

The Behranis in House of Sand in Fog. An entire family gone just because that bitch Kathy was too stupid to own up to her responsibility in losing the house and shacked up with a loose canon deputy (who was also married) and happy to let h8m do whatever he wanted to drive the Behranis out of her house.

But at least she got more comeuppance for her actions than Isabel got in The Light Between Oceans.