Characters That Got A Raw Deal

[Spartan Girl]

I wanted to start a thread for the book characters we thought were the most put upon, who were thrust in the path of misfortune by sadistic writers. Who we thought deserved better than what they got. 

The Baudelaires from A Series of Unfortunate Events should be first on the list, definitely.

Then there's Gale from The Hunger Games books. Even though

he might have helped create the bombs that killed Prim, it wasn't like he'd planned for it to happen, and he certainly hadn't known Coin's plan to kill her and the Capitol kids.

. Yeah, he got a little hard core, but he wasn't a bad guy and the choices that he made weren't exactly different than Katniss. I just feel like it was just a cheap way to make room for Team Peeta.

Also Fanny from The Clockmaker's Daughter whose only crime is to be the bland boring obstacle between her fiancé and his model "true love". Then

she winds up getting killed.

[andromeda331]

From VC Andrews Heaven, Fanny and Tom from the Casteel series three out five siblings sold by their father. Heaven ended up with Kitty a controlling psycho who beat her and husband Cal who groomed Heaven for sex, then went to her psycho grandmother and her rapist husband who turned out to be Heaven's father who raped Heaven's mother, tried to rape Heaven and later her daughter Annie. Treated like crap by Logan who she ends up with and who kills them both in an accident later. I don't like Fanny but she was sold to minister and his wife raped until she gave birth to a child then given money to leave town. Tom who was sold to a farmer who treated him like a slave. He ends up working for their father in a circus and mauled by a tiger.

Audrina from My Sweet Audrina-Audrina should have left at the end after all the crap she was put through by Damian and Arden not decided to stay. 

[Bunty]

Laurie in Little Women stuck with Amy after being rejected by Jo.  Totally hated this when I read it many years ago.  The Professor was such a small part of the story I felt no connection to him at all while I loved the character of Laurie and hated he ended up with bratty Amy and not Jo.

[anna0852]

Janie Johnson from the Face on the Milk Carton series. Finds out she's her parents granddaughter, not their daughter only for that to be a lie as well (which her parents are victims of too) and she's really an unrelated kidnapping victim. She does the right thing, tells her parents what she knows and reaches out to the bio-family to let them know she's alive and okay. Only to be summarily sent to the bio-family, expected to call them 'Mom and Dad' right off the bad, answer to a totally different name and put up with the resentment of her bio-siblings. Oh, and immediately cut off all contact with her adoptive family, her friends and her boyfriend. All this at age 14. 

Nope, she wasn't treated unreasonably at aaaallllll.......

[CountryGirl]

I thought Fanny got a raw deal, too, and took on the brunt of the blame for the affair with Logan, which was bullshit (although maybe Heaven gave him a pass because of her own affair with Troy).

Fanny was raped by the Reverend, multiple times, and I always wondered if Luke ever molested her. Her firstborn was taken from her because there's no way a 14/15 year old would understand the true consequences and I can imagine if she had tried to exercise her parental rights how that would have gone, given the Reverend was seen as a paragon of the community. And just think, he attempted to "adopt" Heaven first.

I loved how Fanny kicked ass in the otherwise boring as hell Gates of Paradise (sans the Troy scenes) and rescued Annie from that house of horrors, Farthy. 

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, CountryGirl said:

I thought Fanny got a raw deal, too, and took on the brunt of the blame for the affair with Logan, which was bullshit (although maybe Heaven gave him a pass because of her own affair with Troy).

Fanny was raped by the Reverend, multiple times, and I always wondered if Luke ever molested her. Her firstborn was taken from her because there's no way a 14/15 year old would understand the true consequences and I can imagine if she had tried to exercise her parental rights how that would have gone, given the Reverend was seen as a paragon of the community. And just think, he attempted to "adopt" Heaven first.

I loved how Fanny kicked ass in the otherwise boring as hell Gates of Paradise (sans the Troy scenes) and rescued Annie from that house of horrors, Farthy. 

I always wondered if Luke molested her too. Given her behavior and she mentioned sitting in his lap. Also, Luke did considering doing something to Heaven in that weird scene after he sold the rest of his kids and his father spoke up. Luke was most definitely going to molest and probably rape Heaven.  It wouldn't surprise me that happened before except it was with Fanny. Luke selling her to the Reverend who ended up raping her. Given the stellar people he sold Heaven and Tom too I don't doubt he knew exactly what was in store for Fanny.

It can't be an accident that Fanny and Heaven both ended up in homes where they ended up having sex with their foster/adoptive father despite both being underage. 

I always hated Fanny getting blamed for the affair with Logan too. I wanted instead for Heaven to finally realize what scum he was and ditch him. He was so horrible to her after learning she slept with Cal and the ends up cheating on her with her sister. I wish we had gotten to see Logan kicked to the curb and the Reverend taken down too, Luke and Tony. Why can't VC Andrews books ever end that way? Three out of four in jail for rape, Logan gone and Heaven sitting pretty with all Tony's money, Fanny gets all Logan's and happy in her mansion with her kids and boy toys. Its happy ending.

[Dr.OO7]

On 2/9/2019 at 7:44 PM, Bunty said:

Laurie in Little Women stuck with Amy after being rejected by Jo.  Totally hated this when I read it many years ago.  The Professor was such a small part of the story I felt no connection to him at all while I loved the character of Laurie and hated he ended up with bratty Amy and not Jo.

I absolutely HATED that. Even worse is that Alcott deliberately did that to spite her readers--she was annoyed at their obsession with Jo and Laurie.

[Spartan Girl]

Sirius Black.  Grows up in a horrible family until he finally runs away, his best friend gets murdered, gets framed for the murder by another friend, gets locked up in Azkaban for 12 years, has to go on the run, winds up back in the house he hated to lay low, and then winds up murdered by his cousin and a certain house elf.

[Blergh]

Poor Beth in Little Women never got to do ANYthing but be sick and have her family and friends pity her before her heartbreaking death !  The bitterest irony is that she was based on Miss Alcott's favorite sister of the same name but somehow Miss Alcott didn't depict her as anything but an ailing, flawless angel. 

[peacheslatour]

5 hours ago, Blergh said:

Poor Beth in Little Women never got to do ANYthing but be sick and have her family and friends pity her before her heartbreaking death !  The bitterest irony is that she was based on Miss Alcott's favorite sister of the same name but somehow Miss Alcott didn't depict her as anything but an ailing, flawless angel. 

Beth got to do a lot of the same stuff her sisters did. She went to parties, on picnics, she was in the Pickwick Club and she had her piano. She was just cripplingly shy. She couldn't stand school and she wasn't the type to go out and make friends. Then she got ill and she never really recovered. I think Ms. Alcott remembered her as a sweet child who died much, much too young because that's what she was. She didn't get a raw deal from the author, she got a raw deal from life.

[Blergh]

Peaches,

   I know that life wasn't fair to the younger Miss Alcott. However; I still think her elder author sister didn't do her justice by painting her as merely a sickly, shy wallflower angel when I can't help but think that there HAD to be more depth to her than that (as ANY human being would have had). Yes, I don't think this was a deliberate slight on the elder Miss Alcott's part (and, in fact, I think she may have thought that immortalizing her as a flawless angel was the best tribute she could have made). Yet, I can't help think that there had to be more to  Beth Alcott/March than  parties, piano-playing, picnics and the Pickwick Club. 

   Oh, I also wonder if there might have been some unresolved hostility on the author Miss Alcott's part towards her parents re insisting on self-sacrifice re when starting the classic tale by having Marmee guilt them Christmas morning to 'give' their own sumptuous  holiday breakfast to an improverished family and starve that day while trying to help them which was the instigation for Beth's initial decline due to her catching something from one of those destitute folks. 

[kathyk24]

Violet Beauregard for Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Constantly chewing is a habit not a character flaw. She didn't deserve to turn blue forever.

[kathyk24]

On ‎2‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 12:27 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Sirius Black.  Grows up in a horrible family until he finally runs away, his best friend gets murdered, gets framed for the murder by another friend, gets locked up in Azkaban for 12 years, has to go on the run, winds up back in the house he hated to lay low, and then winds up murdered by his cousin and a certain house elf.

On ‎2‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 12:27 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Sirius Black.  Grows up in a horrible family until he finally runs away, his best friend gets murdered, gets framed for the murder by another friend, gets locked up in Azkaban for 12 years, has to go on the run, winds up back in the house he hated to lay low, and then winds up murdered by his cousin and a certain house elf.

Amen! Kreacher should have been punished for his role in Sirius' death not to be Harry's house elf. Dumbledore also played a role in his death. He knew Sirius' past and that home would the worst place for him to live. Harry observed that Sirius was depressed at the beginning of the Order of Phoenix why didn't anyone else?

[Spartan Girl]

9 hours ago, kathyk24 said:

Amen! Kreacher should have been punished for his role in Sirius' death not to be Harry's house elf. Dumbledore also played a role in his death. He knew Sirius' past and that home would the worst place for him to live. Harry observed that Sirius was depressed at the beginning of the Order of Phoenix why didn't anyone else?

In fairness to Dumbledore, he did own up to his role in Sirius' death.

Agree about Kreacher. I am still bitter that he was never punished for what he did. I'm even MORE bitter that Hermione continued to defend him afterward, even to the point that Sirius deserved to get betrayed for being mean to Kreacher. Go to hell, Hermione. The Black family were the ones that mistreated and brainwashed Kreacher, not Sirius, but that's still no excuse for what he did. I would have loved to see if Hermione would have remained so high-minded if her parents got killed because Kreacher sold them out.

[DearEvette]

Ned Stark - from Game of Thrones.   I mean, the dude was minding his business up in the North.  Hanging happily with his family.  Frolicking int he snow with dire wolves.  Trying to warn people about Winter.  Completely out of the Thug Life.  And then that ass Robert comes by and convinces him to be his Hand.  Poor Ned  I was so sad about him.  And his family.   Honestly, I think the entire Stark family got a raw deal.  Parents dead, they are all separated.  Sansa having to deal with the horror that is Joffrey, Bran thrown off a tower by Jaime etc.

Bruli of the Ketohara - from Daughter of the Empire by Janny Wurts  -  Set in a world where the noble class practices a form of one-upmanship called the Game of Houses where murder is only bad if you are caught.  And whole family histories can be obliterated by a cunning enemy.  Mara (the main character) is really great.  I loved her.  I did.  She is desperate to keep her house from obliteration by an enemy so she makes some really gangsta moves.  But what she did to Bruli was uncalled for.  All he wanted to do was court her and she led him on and humiliated him just to neutralize a bigger threat.  She did him dirty.

Paul Tankersley - from Field of Dishonor (Honor Harrington series) by David Weber.  He was Honor's love interest that I feel got sacrificed to make way for a "more important" love interest.  I felt really bad for him.

[Mabinogia]

16 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Ned Stark - from Game of Thrones.   I mean, the dude was minding his business up in the North.  Hanging happily with his family.  Frolicking int he snow with dire wolves.  Trying to warn people about Winter.  Completely out of the Thug Life.  And then that ash Robert comes by and convinces him to be his Hand.  Poor Ned  I was so sad about him.  And his family.   Honestly, I think the entire Stark family got a raw deal.  Parents dead, they are all separated.  Sansa having to deal with the horror that is Joffrey, Bran thrown off a tower by Jaime etc.

The Starks have been screwed over by life more times than I can even count. They are the poster children for "good guys finish last". Sure, it's not over yet, but no happy ending in the world can make up for what they've been through. 

[Neko]

What about Jeyne Poole?  I don't even want to think about the raw deal she got. **shudder**

On 2/9/2019 at 4:44 PM, Bunty said:

Laurie in Little Women stuck with Amy after being rejected by Jo.  Totally hated this when I read it many years ago.  The Professor was such a small part of the story I felt no connection to him at all while I loved the character of Laurie and hated he ended up with bratty Amy and not Jo.

I might be the only person on the planet earth who thinks Amy and Laurie made a lot more sense than Jo and Laurie.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Shakma said:

What about Jeyne Poole?  I don't even want to think about the raw deal she got. **shudder**

I might be the only person on the planet earth who thinks Amy and Laurie made a lot more sense than Jo and Laurie.

I do think they fit together a lot more to a point. Amy wanted the wealthy life that Laurie had and they had more in common. Both spoiled and kind of selfish. I do think Jo was right that they would both be miserable if they married. I don't think Jo loved him in that way. As a friend, a best friend and/or brother but not marrying. But its always been really weird after playing with the March sisters and Amy was the youngest that years later he sees her in Europe and the two fall in love. He knew for a long time as a little kid but when he sees her later is able to see her as all grown up and fall in love? Plus he was in love with her sister or thought he was. Then again the only couple that ever made sense for me in Little Women was Meg and John. We see them meet, spend time together as the years go by, they go to the theater together. He crushes on her, and she probably is back but doesn't realize until she hears her aunt insult him. Jo tells him that John has her glove and she's not upset by it.  Laurie and Amy, and Jo and Behr always feel like they come out of no where. There's no real build up to them, we don't really get to see them fall in love like we did with Meg and John. The other two always feels like the last season of a TV show or at the end of a movie where suddenly everyone pairs up. 

[peacheslatour]

11 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I do think they fit together a lot more to a point. Amy wanted the wealthy life that Laurie had and they had more in common. Both spoiled and kind of selfish. I do think Jo was right that they would both be miserable if they married. I don't think Jo loved him in that way. As a friend, a best friend and/or brother but not marrying. But its always been really weird after playing with the March sisters and Amy was the youngest that years later he sees her in Europe and the two fall in love. He knew for a long time as a little kid but when he sees her later is able to see her as all grown up and fall in love? Plus he was in love with her sister or thought he was. Then again the only couple that ever made sense for me in Little Women was Meg and John. We see them meet, spend time together as the years go by, they go to the theater together. He crushes on her, and she probably is back but doesn't realize until she hears her aunt insult him. Jo tells him that John has her glove and she's not upset by it.  Laurie and Amy, and Jo and Behr always feel like they come out of no where. There's no real build up to them, we don't really get to see them fall in love like we did with Meg and John. The other two always feels like the last season of a TV show or at the end of a movie where suddenly everyone pairs up. 

I agree with Shakma that Amy and Laurie made sense. And we do see them falling in love in Europe. They had many encounters and since Amy could dish it out as well as Jo could, Laurie had a newfound respect for her as an adult. It didn't hurt that she grew into a beautiful woman. Now, with the Professor, that did feel kind of tacked on. I think it's because it's one of the things that Ms. Alcott didn't draw from her own life, as she never married.

[Spartan Girl]

The poor unfortunate Roberta in An American Tragedy, whose only crime was falling for and getting pregnant by that selfish gold digger Clyde.

And in that vein, I think Amy Dudley in Philippa Gregory's The Queen's Fool and The Virgin's Lover. Robert treated her like crap, cheated on her repeatedly, and ditched her in an attempt to marry Elizabeth and be King of England, and yet instead of sympathy, she became a pariah with all of Robert's lemmings just because she was "low-born" and "getting in the way" of Robert's ambitions. And she got killed for it.

[peacheslatour]

18 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

The poor unfortunate Roberta in An American Tragedy, whose only crime was falling for and getting pregnant by that selfish gold digger Clyde.

And in that vein, I think Amy Dudley in Philippa Gregory's The Queen's Fool and The Virgin's Lover. Robert treated her like crap, cheated on her repeatedly, and ditched her in an attempt to marry Elizabeth and be King of England, and yet instead of sympathy, she became a pariah with all of Robert's lemmings just because she was "low-born" and "getting in the way" of Robert's ambitions. And she got killed for it.

Well, officially didn't she fall down the stairs? Yeah, he killed her.

[Spartan Girl]

16 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Well, officially didn't she fall down the stairs? Yeah, he killed her.

Well, technically in The Virgin's Lover, Elizabeth and Cecil had her killed so that Robert would be smeared by the suspicion and never be able to be an accepted suitor. Doubtful that's how it went down in real life, but yeah, Amy was put in danger because of his selfish greed and ambition to be King and England so he was just as responsible.

If Philippa Gregory was trying to make me feel sorry for him getting framed, she failed miserably. The only person I felt sorry for in that whole book was Amy.

[GreekGeek]

A few that stand out:

Lizaveta in Crime and Punishment, who never did anything wrong except come home at the worst possible time, when Raskolnikov had just finished killing her half sister. He then killed her in a panic. So much for his claim to be a humanitarian getting rid of a bad person to help the unfortunate people she victimized.

Edgar Linton in Wuthering Heights, remembered by many readers as a bland dull guy who can't compete with passionate romantic Heathcliff. He was a kind man who deserved a woman who wasn't crazy obsessed with another man.

Frank Kennedy in Gone with the Wind, a decent fellow used by Scarlett for his money, who got killed trying to "defend her honor." Also Charlie Hamilton, whom Scarlett married to spite Ashley. He didn't even get a heroic death in battle.

Fredo Corleone in The Godfather. He was a good and dutiful son who was cast aside by the Family for freezing and breaking down after his father was shot.

Luke Castellan in the Percy Jackson books. He failed his first quest, understandably became envious of Percy, got possessed by Cronus, and ultimately died sacrificing himself.

[Black Knight]

2 hours ago, GreekGeek said:

Also Charlie Hamilton, whom Scarlett married to spite Ashley. He didn't even get a heroic death in battle.

I remember Scarlett complains about his not even having died in battle so that she could brag about it. So, in terms of characters getting what they deserve, it's probably better that Scarlett didn't get to play war widow than that he got to die in battle, even though it sucks for him.

[Blergh]

As long as we're talking GWTW, let's not forget Scarlett's elder two children Wade Hamilton and Ella Kennedy that Scarlett, rather than having any warm maternal feelings for or even compassion for them having lost their fathers early instead forever projects on them what she considered their fathers' failings   and used that as an excuse to neglect and dump on them. THEN when she bears Bonnie Blue Butler, the rest of the family all worship HER (including Wade's paternal aunt Melanie Wilkes) but, at best, consider her elder half-sibs as lesser lights. 

[Spartan Girl]

2 hours ago, Blergh said:

As long as we're talking GWTW, let's not forget Scarlett's elder two children Wade Hamilton and Ella Kennedy that Scarlett, rather than having any warm maternal feelings for or even compassion for them having lost their fathers early instead forever projects on them what she considered their fathers' failings   and used that as an excuse to neglect and dump on them. THEN when she bears Bonnie Blue Butler, the rest of the family all worship HER (including Wade's paternal aunt Melanie Wilkes) but, at best, consider her elder half-sibs as lesser lights. 

Ugh yeah, those poor kids. Scarlett even wishes that Ella died instead of Bonnie. Seriously, it's right there in the book. Rhett was right: a cat was a better mother than her. 

[JAYJAY1979]

On 2/9/2019 at 2:43 PM, andromeda331 said:

From VC Andrews Heaven, Fanny and Tom from the Casteel series three out five siblings sold by their father. Heaven ended up with Kitty a controlling psycho who beat her and husband Cal who groomed Heaven for sex, then went to her psycho grandmother and her rapist husband who turned out to be Heaven's father who raped Heaven's mother, tried to rape Heaven and later her daughter Annie. Treated like crap by Logan who she ends up with and who kills them both in an accident later. I don't like Fanny but she was sold to minister and his wife raped until she gave birth to a child then given money to leave town. Tom who was sold to a farmer who treated him like a slave. He ends up working for their father in a circus and mauled by a tiger.

Audrina from My Sweet Audrina-Audrina should have left at the end after all the crap she was put through by Damian and Arden not decided to stay. 

For me, it was Carrie from the Dollanganger series.  From losing her twin, never growing, no friends, always over shadowed by Cathy, and lastly being rejected by her mother.  She was the character I cared about most..and I couldn't get into the future books cause once she died, so did my interest in the series 

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

For me, it was Carrie from the Dollanganger series.  From losing her twin, never growing, no friends, always over shadowed by Cathy, and lastly being rejected by her mother.  She was the character I cared about most..and I couldn't get into the future books cause once she died, so did my interest in the series 

Yeah, poor girl. She went though so much and never recovered from any of it. 

[Spartan Girl]

Yeah poor Carrie. She was so close to a happy ending by marrying the nice priest guy but couldn't get over her own mother abandoning her and all the crap she went through.

[Spartan Girl]

Nanju in Tiger Hills. All he ever wanted was for his mother to love him. It’s bad enough being overshadowed by his adopted brother, but to have his own mother cruelly tell him that

he was born of rape and “a curse and a punishment”

was just cruel.

[Spartan Girl]

Thought of two more, and they're both doozies:

Mariam in A Thousand Spendid Suns by Khaled Hosseini. She had such a sad life. Her abusive mother scarred her for life by killing herself, her father abandoned her because she was born out of wedlock, she was horribly abused by Rasheed, and she kept having all those miscarriages. The only bright spot in her life was her friendship with Laila and co-mothering Laila's children. And she ends up getting executed by the Taliban for killing Rasheed to save them.

Valerie in Hate List by Jennifer Brown. The poor girl winds up getting blamed for her boyfriend shooting up the school all because of a dumb list she made of all the people she hated. She didn't know what he was going to do and people write crap like that all the time. She didn't deserve all the vilification she got -- even from her own family! Plus, her father was a selfish piece of shit. 

[CraftyHazel]

I’m showing my age here, but...

Joseph Friedman, from “Evergreen” by Belva Plain.  I read that book decades ago and I still think he got a really raw deal.

[GreekGeek]

I thought of someone else: Zeena in Ethan Frome. It's easy to think of her as a villain--an unpleasant hypochondriac who has more affection for her cat and her pickle dish than for her husband. But she strikes me as a sufferer of depression, worn down by years of poverty and isolation. I've fantasized a happy ending for Ethan and Zeena: They sell off Ethan's miserable farm and move to a city, where Zeena finds a job as a caretaker-companion to a rich childless woman. Ethan then completes the education interrupted by his mother's illness, and becomes an engineer. When the old woman dies she leaves her money to Zeena, who then goes to nursing school.

[Blergh]

17 hours ago, GreekGeek said:

I thought of someone else: Zeena in Ethan Frome. It's easy to think of her as a villain--an unpleasant hypochondriac who has more affection for her cat and her pickle dish than for her husband. But she strikes me as a sufferer of depression, worn down by years of poverty and isolation. I've fantasized a happy ending for Ethan and Zeena: They sell off Ethan's miserable farm and move to a city, where Zeena finds a job as a caretaker-companion to a rich childless woman. Ethan then completes the education interrupted by his mother's illness, and becomes an engineer. When the old woman dies she leaves her money to Zeena, who then goes to nursing school.

But while Zeena (the wronged wife) wound up having to shoulder the double burden of somehow making a living from their farm to keep her crippled adulterous husband and his bedridden co-adulterer alive, one can imagine that as soon as her husband died, she would have sold the Frome family farm and used the monies to live in a nearby boarding house in relative comfort for the remainder of her own days. 

[Wiendish Fitch]

I'm hard-pressed to think of a character who was more screwed over by life than Bertha Mason Rochester from Jane Eyre. It's bad enough she struggled with mental health issues, but her rat bastard husband locks her away in the attic because of it, she's served a diet of gruel and has only has decrepit drunk Grace Poole for company. Meanwhile, ol' Eddie Rochester is off spreading his seed around (I completely believe Adele is his daughter), looking to commit a li'l bigamy to satisfy his appetite, while his first wife rots away in the attic. As if that weren't enough, Bertha is framed as a burdensome monster and

Spoiler

dies an unmourned death. 

 

[Spartan Girl]

13 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I'm hard-pressed to think of a character who was more screwed over by life than Bertha Mason Rochester from Jane Eyre. It's bad enough she struggled with mental health issues, but her rat bastard husband locks her away in the attic because of it, she's served a diet of gruel and has only has decrepit drunk Grace Poole for company. Meanwhile, ol' Eddie Rochester is off spreading his seed around (I completely believe Adele is his daughter), looking to commit a li'l bigamy to satisfy his appetite, while his first wife rots away in the attic. As if that weren't enough, Bertha is framed as a burdensome monster and

  Reveal spoiler

dies an unmourned death. 

 

Yeah Wide Sargasso Sea really showed just how cruelly Rochester screwed over Antoinette/Bertha.

[Blergh]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Yeah Wide Sargasso Sea really showed just how cruelly Rochester screwed over Antoinette/Bertha.

I know that Jane Eyre was supposed to be an uber conventional protagonist woman despite being put in all kinds of situations, but even considering the times, it's a bit much how she has zero compassion whatsoever for Bertha when Rochester is forced to reveal the latter's existence- and is only upset with Rochester for nearly getting her stuck in a bigamous bond. Not that he imprisoned and hid his wife in appalling conditions. Not that he barely tolerated and encouraged Jane to try to 'de Frenchify' the innocent child Adele (who I agree he ,at the very least, believed was likely was  his otherwise he'd have let her starve in obscurity in France).  And I think Jane herself was just being willfully ignorant her Adele's probable paternity. JUST that he involved Jane herself in a scandal that could have permanently made HER rep toast. 

[Spartan Girl]

Alice in Kindred by Octavia Butler could give Bertha a run for her money in what she goes through. She's a free Black woman assaulted by Rufus, her white "friend" when she chooses to marry Isaac instead of him, then when she tries to run away with Isaac, they're both caught by slave catchers -- she gets ripped apart by dogs -- and seperated when he's sold off in Mississippi and she's sold to Rufus and pretty much becomes his sex slave. She's shunned by all the other slaves because they think she likes being with him, even though SHE HAS NO CHOICE. She winds up having two (surviving) kids that she loves, but she hates herself for being too afraid to try running away again. And when she finally tries to escape with the kids

Rufus tricks her into believing that he sold off the kids, driving her to such despair that she hangs herself

[peacheslatour]

I think Ashley Wilkes got a raw deal in GWTW. Of to fight in a war for a cause he didn't believe in. spent around a year in a prison camp and then he finds out his wife can't have any more children, which in those days meant no more sex. 

[Ohiopirate02]

On 11/27/2020 at 10:32 PM, GreekGeek said:

I thought of someone else: Zeena in Ethan Frome. It's easy to think of her as a villain--an unpleasant hypochondriac who has more affection for her cat and her pickle dish than for her husband. But she strikes me as a sufferer of depression, worn down by years of poverty and isolation. I've fantasized a happy ending for Ethan and Zeena: They sell off Ethan's miserable farm and move to a city, where Zeena finds a job as a caretaker-companion to a rich childless woman. Ethan then completes the education interrupted by his mother's illness, and becomes an engineer. When the old woman dies she leaves her money to Zeena, who then goes to nursing school.

I think that's the beauty of Edith Wharton.  She writes characters who on the surface seem to be villians, but in reality are just as much victims like the protagonists.  The true villian in an Edith Wharton work is society.  May Welland from The Age of Innocence springs to mind, but May is craftier and does what is necessary to make sure she doesn't get a raw deal.  Unless you think that decades being married to Newland Archer is a raw deal.  That is up for debate.

[Browncoat]

20 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

he finds out his wife can't have any more children, which in those days meant no more sex. 

Yeah, but he didn't listen and knocked her up again anyway.  And we all know how well that turned out.

[peacheslatour]

Just now, Browncoat said:

Yeah, but he didn't listen and knocked her up again anyway.  And we all know how well that turned out.

That's right. Didn't Melanie say she talked him into it? She just wanted another child so desperately.

[Browncoat]

4 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

That's right. Didn't Melanie say she talked him into it? She just wanted another child so desperately.

It's been a while since I read it, but that sounds right.  I do remember how much she wanted children.

ETA: Wasn't it that Melanie "shouldn't" have more children, not "couldn't"?

Edited December 3, 2020 by Browncoat

[proserpina65]

On ‎11‎/‎29‎/‎2020 at 9:19 AM, Spartan Girl said:

Yeah Wide Sargasso Sea really showed just how cruelly Rochester screwed over Antoinette/Bertha.

I don't entirely agree.  I think that book did not cast Antoinette in a good light, either.  In particular, it seemed obvious to me that she was screwing her cousin.  She and Rochester pretty much deserved each other.

[nodorothyparker]

I don't really consider books like Wide Sargasso Sea canon anyway because they're not from the same author but one who usually has a specific agenda in recasting a classic. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy them as I'll be the first to admit I have a sad weakness for even the most terrible Pride and Prejudice retellings, but they're still more or less fan fiction.

All that said, I came away from it thinking that while Rochester certainly wasn't a heroic figure by any means for all that he's terrific conversationalist in the original recipe, he probably wasn't coming from a terribly sympathetic mindset either as it seemed pretty clear that everyone was conspiring to get Antoinette/Bertha married off to him before he caught on just how unstable she really was. I'm also mindful that there really weren't any good solutions for anyone. Divorce simply wasn't a thing at the time, and mental health care, such as it was, was often worse than what it was trying to treat.

[proserpina65]

17 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

All that said, I came away from it thinking that while Rochester certainly wasn't a heroic figure by any means for all that he's terrific conversationalist in the original recipe, he probably wasn't coming from a terribly sympathetic mindset either as it seemed pretty clear that everyone was conspiring to get Antoinette/Bertha married off to him before he caught on just how unstable she really was.

I actually had a little sympathy for him after reading it, because it's obvious that her family completely hid her insanity from him until they were married.

[peacheslatour]

On 12/3/2020 at 10:31 AM, Browncoat said:

It's been a while since I read it, but that sounds right.  I do remember how much she wanted children.

ETA: Wasn't it that Melanie "shouldn't" have more children, not "couldn't"?

Yes, after Beau's difficult birth she was told her health would not permit her to risk it.

[Spartan Girl]

Jivan from A Burning got screwed over seven ways to Sunday.

Falsely accused of terrorism because of a stupid Facebook post and because she's a Muslim, and then EVERY SINGLE PERSON that could have helped her, including her alibi witness, sells her out and leaves her to get executed.

Still makes my blood boil every time I think of it.

[GreekGeek]

On 11/29/2020 at 12:11 PM, Blergh said:

I know that Jane Eyre was supposed to be an uber conventional protagonist woman despite being put in all kinds of situations, but even considering the times, it's a bit much how she has zero compassion whatsoever for Bertha when Rochester is forced to reveal the latter's existence- and is only upset with Rochester for nearly getting her stuck in a bigamous bond. Not that he imprisoned and hid his wife in appalling conditions. 

I agree that Bertha got a raw deal, but I don't agree that Jane has zero compassion for her. In her first conversation with Rochester after finding out about Bertha, Rochester is calling her a "fearful hag" and other horrible things. Jane gently reprimands him: 

Quote

“Sir,” I interrupted him, “you are inexorable for that unfortunate lady: you speak of her with hate — with vindictive antipathy. It is cruel — she cannot help being mad.”

 

[blueray]

Remus Lupin: His father pisses off a werewolf, to only have that werewolf attack him as revenge turning him as a kid. So he lost most of his childhood as there is no cure. He then starting school (the best time of his life) and makes friends. Only to watch as two of them die at 21, one become evil and the other one be wrongly accused of murder. Then after Sirius is found not guilty, him and Lupin start to become close again only for Sirius to be murdered. Then a few years later, Lupin himself and his wife are murdered, leaving their few month old son an orphan. Poor Lupin, who is an awesome character and deserved a lot better.