Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries - General Discussion

[MissLucas]

I'm a bit torn on this one - I mean we got that kiss. But overall the plot was a tad too convoluted. And the ending felt rushed. (It didn't help that I hadn't realized this was the final episode until it was over.)  I do hope we get another season.

[pootlus]

I'm a bit torn on this one - I mean we got that kiss. But overall the plot was a tad too convoluted. And the ending felt rushed. (It didn't help that I hadn't realized this was the final episode until it was over.)  I do hope we get another season.

I must admit that the segment with Phryne and Jack outside the observartory baffled me completely. Telescopes?

I heard rumours of a movie set in the UK. I kind of hope it's not set there - how would Dot, Hugh, Bert, Cec, Mr Butler, Aunt Prudence and Dr Mac be there? I assume Jack would actually follow Phryne.

[Serendi]

That would explain the "Come after me Jack!"

[MissLucas]

 

I heard rumours of a movie set in the UK.

 

Well that would make my dream scenario of Phryne meeting Lady Mary (almost) come true ;) Alas, I haven't heard anything about a season 4. The show seems to catch on in the US market so they may wait for the numbers once season 3 has aired there.

Yeah, didn't get the whole 'telescope' flirting - and was Phryne really intending to fly with that flimsy thing from Australia to England? I thought she'd try to catch up with the ship in a harbor on its voyage but they made it sound as if she was going to fly the whole distance.

Looks like it was possible but not exactly a walk in the park (even considering that Phryne's flight was taking place a couple of years later): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1919_England_to_Australia_flight

[Bedelia]

I'm a bit torn on this one - I mean we got that kiss. But overall the plot was a tad too convoluted.

 

 

I feel just the same. I loved the kiss, but the plot was just all over the place, and even at the end we don't really know how long Phryne will be gone for or what kind of invitations she was giving Jack- is it to follow her for a fling or because she's moving to England? And how is he supposed to afford that? To me the dialogue seemed to want to have it both ways- they did want to move along the romance, but also to keep Miss Fisher footloose and fancy free, jetting off to London and speaking as if she'll be keeping her options open, unless Jack takes drastic steps to come after her. I wonder what they are setting up here exactly, or where next season, or a movie, will find them.

[Ceindreadh]

Okay maybe it's me being thick but I didn't understand the plot of this one at all.  Where did Beatrice get the pages of the book she bought to Phryne's house (and that were later stolen by the intruder)? I thought there was just one page of the book that was left in the safe.  And why were pages from the book left in a convenient trail for Phryne to find and follow out to the quad?  Did someone find the book, tear pages out, leave them in a trail (that no-one else noticed?) and then bury the book hapharzardly in a flowerbed? Why?

 

The fact that it turned out to be all about the skull and not the book in the end was a bit of a let-down.  And I still don't know what relevance the episode title has.

 

Coupled with Jack and Phryne's estragement (which thankfully seems to be mostly over) this is the weakest ep to date IMO.  Even Dr Mac couldn't save it.

 

(working my way through the DVDs because the original airing that I saw cut chunks out of the eps)

The pages that Beatrice had at Phryne's house were copies that she'd made to work on her study/project about the book.

AFAIK, the pages were left deliberately by the student who had stolen the book.  It wasn't so much that nobody had noticed them, I think that they'd only been recently planted when Phryne saw them - she'd surely have noticed if the book had been buried in that spot when they found all the blood.

[GaT]

Finally got to watch this in the US. I'm not fond of Phrynne's father either, is he going to be around all the time, or is he just in this one episode?

[purist]

Essie Davis has been cast in season 6 of Game of Thrones, playing a member of a travelling theatre troupe. The troupe puts on a play based on the events in King's Landing over the past few years, and Essie plays Cersei Lannister!

[radishcake]

Essie Davis has been cast in season 6 of Game of Thrones, playing a member of a travelling theatre troupe. The troupe puts on a play based on the events in King's Landing over the past few years, and Essie plays Cersei Lannister!

That is one hell of a get for GoT!! 

[VanillaBear85]

I received an alert that series 3 is now on Netflix in the US. Such a wonderful way to end my day.

[marceline]

Finally got to watch this in the US. I'm not fond of Phrynne's father either, is he going to be around all the time, or is he just in this one episode?

 

He's going to make other appearances and IMO, they all suck.

[GaT]

Well, that's not good. I realize he's supposed to be a charming ne'er-do-well, but I don't think the show needed one, & I don't find him interesting.

[marceline]

I've already watched the season (through nefarious means) and I found it...lacking in a number of areas

 

Is it my imagination or did Phryne not have any sex this season? I'm all for the Phryne/Jack slow burn but if she's decided to give up her "wanton" ways because of him then I'd like to see more of her process. There were some flirtations with suspects but I don't recall any scenes of her in the post-coital glow that we've seen.

 

Between that and Dot's stories (don't get me started on the Daddy drama) I felt like this series forgot some of the things that make the show great.

[natyxg]

IMO, i think they wrote themselves into a corner with Jack and Phryne. I get wanting to explore the whole "will they? won't they?" dynamic, but in this particular case I can't see an ending that satisfies everyone. They would be betraying Phryne's character by making her monogamous to be with Jack. They would be betraying Jack's character if he gets together with her and condones an open relationship. And I imagine a lot of viewers would be disappointed if they don't get together at the end.

 

I don't really care either way.

 

I'm always so confused about Phryne's past. I remember when they did the whole Janey story, in the flashbacks Janey and Phryne seemed poor. But then they inherited something? Was that what they were talking about here? That the random murderer was the previous baron and Phryne's crap dad inherited his title and wealth when he "died"? Or something? But Phryne's mother's sister is Prudence, who is rich. I don't get it. I feel like I missed something big and I'm not sure of where I missed it.

[GaT]

Not a very interesting mystery to me, this season is becoming background noise.

 

I think I'm getting a bit confused about the status of Jack and Phryne's relationship, and from his looks Jack is too...I hope they resolve it soon. If Phryne is simply not interested in monogamy she should probably sit down and have an honest talk with him, but then this is TV so we'll probably get more angst (or as angsty as this show gets).

I'm worried that if they become a couple, they'll stop being interesting.

[lizzbert]

As far as the money, I think Phryne's parents both come from moneyed families, but either Phryne's father was from a poorer branch, or he drank and gambled it away. When his cousin (??) the previous Baron "died," Phryne's father inherited. I think enough family members died in the war that Phryne inherited separately--didn't her aunt reference that in Season 1?

Edited September 23, 2015 by lizzbert

[Mrs peel]

IMO, i think they wrote themselves into a corner with Jack and Phryne. I get wanting to explore the whole "will they? won't they?" dynamic, but in this particular case I can't see an ending that satisfies everyone. They would be betraying Phryne's character by making her monogamous to be with Jack. They would be betraying Jack's character if he gets together with her and condones an open relationship. And I imagine a lot of viewers would be disappointed if they don't get together at the end.

 

I don't really care either way.

 

I'm always so confused about Phryne's past. I remember when they did the whole Janey story, in the flashbacks Janey and Phryne seemed poor. But then they inherited something? Was that what they were talking about here? That the random murderer was the previous baron and Phryne's crap dad inherited his title and wealth when he "died"? Or something? But Phryne's mother's sister is Prudence, who is rich. I don't get it. I feel like I missed something big and I'm not sure of where I missed it.

I'm not sure about her mother, but her father was a distant relative who became the lord of the manor due to multiple deaths during WW1. Which explains the Importance of the guy attacking him, as he was before Phryne's father in the line of succession but was reported missing, presumed killed.

That said, I never thought the timing worked well for Phryne's history. I have read the books, which have that family background also - but if she grew up poor in Australia, daddy inherited during WW11, and she herself was an ambulance driver in WW1, when did she have the time in between to go to a real school and learn so much? Not after the war, as she stayed in France for several years. And being so poor doesn't explain why Aunt Pridence didn't help out the family more, as she is certainly rich (I don't recall if the TV show gives any back-story for her that would have had her poor when Phryne's was growing up). I suspect the author didn't think out the timing when developing the backstory for how she is upper-crust but not.

I don't particularly like the Phryne's and Jack romance, it's too Hollywood for me.

[purist]

 

I suspect the author didn't think out the timing when developing the backstory for how she is upper-crust but not.

 

The back story isn't explained well at all in the TV series - it makes much more sense in the books. Part of the confusion, I think, is that neither Phryne's father nor Aunt Prudence is a character in the books. They were invented for the TV series. In the books, Phryne grew up poor and came into money after WWI (I think). This means that she has a great appreciation for her good fortune and great empathy for the poor and downtrodden.

[stanleyk]

IMO, i think they wrote themselves into a corner with Jack and Phryne. I get wanting to explore the whole "will they? won't they?" dynamic, but in this particular case I can't see an ending that satisfies everyone. They would be betraying Phryne's character by making her monogamous to be with Jack. They would be betraying Jack's character if he gets together with her and condones an open relationship. And I imagine a lot of viewers would be disappointed if they don't get together at the end.

 

This third series fell a little flat for me, and I think it's because it felt like they really changed Phryne's character in order to force the Phryne/Jack relationship forward. What made the Phryne/Jack tension work so well in the first two series was the knowledge by both of them as well as the audience that no relationship with them would ever really work. You could see Jack really struggling with his desire for Phryne while knowing she will not be in a traditional monogamous relationship. That was totally gone in this series, and Phryne's carefree approach to sex was also gone - did she have any casual sex this series? That's part of the fun of the series!

 

I don't know, the whole series felt a little rushed, a little confused, not very fun, and a little...smaller, or something. We didn't seem to get as much of the supporting characters, the clothes didn't seem as amazing as they have in the past, I don't think there were as many splashy set pieces, and the characters all seemed a bit muted. Overall, a bit of a disappointment. I know they can't drag on unrelieved sexual tension forever, but it makes me wish they'd never started it because the necessary resolution seems to have ruined some of the other stuff I loved about the show.

 

On the back story question, I've read most of the books, and while they do slightly better explaining Phryne's back story, it still never really made all that much sense, from a timing perspective. I think it's best not to do too much arthimetic and let it all go.

 

[natyxg]

I'm not sure about her mother, but her father was a distant relative who became the lord of the manor due to multiple deaths during WW1. Which explains the Importance of the guy attacking him, as he was before Phryne's father in the line of succession but was reported missing, presumed killed.

That said, I never thought the timing worked well for Phryne's history. I have read the books, which have that family background also - but if she grew up poor in Australia, daddy inherited during WW11, and she herself was an ambulance driver in WW1, when did she have the time in between to go to a real school and learn so much? Not after the war, as she stayed in France for several years. And being so poor doesn't explain why Aunt Pridence didn't help out the family more, as she is certainly rich (I don't recall if the TV show gives any back-story for her that would have had her poor when Phryne's was growing up). I suspect the author didn't think out the timing when developing the backstory for how she is upper-crust but not.

 

Yes, that's more of less what I remembered, that they grew up poor then came into some money. But Aunt P. is her mother's sister, so it doesn't make sense that Phryne would be poor and mother's family wasn't... unless her mother was rich and was kicked out for marrying her dad and estranged from her family? I don't know, I too think they didn't work this out right and it always bothers me when they bring these things up.

 

That was totally gone in this series, and Phryne's carefree approach to sex was also gone - did she have any casual sex this series?

 

She did at least twice, as far as I remember: with the army/plane guy and the italian dude.

 

I didn't think season three was any worse than the others. I enjoyed it. My only real gripe was that Janey apparently fell down a black hole. Phryne being her sort of mother/ fun aunt was one of my favorite things of the show, yet nothing.

Edited September 26, 2015 by natyxg

[mjc570]

I thought this was an enjoyable episode, although not a lot of suspense. I especially liked the way that Dot worked out the "honor and obey" thing.  She really has learned a lot from Phryne, and they work well together as a team.

 

I'm not really a fan of Dr. MAc as ME.  I know that's the most loogical way to include her in the show, but it seems liked she's lost all of her personality.

[mjc570]

Wow, is Dr. MAc the worst pathologist ever? 

 

forgot to add:  Shades of Richard Harrow!

Edited September 28, 2015 by mjc570

[mjc570]

YEah, I always like Aunt Prudence.  I teared up a bit at the end.

 

One of the things I like best about this series is that the characters are usually somewhat nuanced - like in this episode, Dr. HAyden did hypnotise the women and obtain large donations, but he also was saving them from genital surgery.

[GaT]

Jack started sounding a lot more Australian this episode, also, the sound wasn't very good, I had a hard time understanding everyone.

[Carrie Ann]

Hey guys, this show is awesome and I cannot imagine how I lived without it for so long, but question: what episode in season one has Jack say he's in a sexless marriage/marriage in name only? I know it happens but I binge watched the whole thing over the weekend and somehow didn't hear that part.

 

I'm guessing you've answered this question for yourself in the intervening months, but just in case: Jack talks about how his wife had been living with her sister "for some time" at the end of Ep 105. (I avoided this forum all summer waiting for S3 to come out on Netflix so just saw this question, and mayyyyyyy have rewatched S1 for the third time recently...)

[mjc570]

IN a way, I'm sorry that was the last episode,  It was somewhat redeemed for my by the wedding, but I truly hate that Phryne's father is now just a lovable scamp and all is forgiven.  The science plot was just ridiculous,   I'm sorry they weren't able to go out on a stronger note - with a lightheareted episode that had some fabulous costumes, and at least some mention of Jane, who could have been a good replacement for Dot.

[CoderLady]

Not a very interesting mystery to me, this season is becoming background noise.

I'm sorry to say I agree with you. Phryne seems to have lost the supremely self-confident swagger that set her apart. And I can't quite put my finger on it, but the cases themselves have so far been sort of boring. Well, it's only the second episode -- things could pick up.

[CoderLady]

Sorry to say it but I agree with you. I'm not feeling this season at all. I've watched the first two episodes and ended up turning off the next two unfinished.

 

Things that make me sad:

• Everything that set Phryne apart has been turned way down. Her independence, self-confidence, and sense of humor aren't front and center anymore. The swagger is gone.
• Of course, things might be different in later episodes but from the few I watched, now she rides around with Jack interviewing suspects and discussing cases as if this was just another police procedural.
• She appears to be jealous and watchful of Jack now when he talks to other women. No, just no.
• Re: shady Daddy -- Why is it that women protagonists have to have at least one irritating nutbar relative siphoning off some of their energy?
• Hugh and Dot. They used to be a lovely young couple feeling their way towards each other but now their negotiations over religion and Dot's independence are getting tiresome.
• I really miss Phryne acting on incidents of mutual attraction with men who appreciated her.
• I haven't seen much of Bert and Ces(?). They rounded things out nicely, with their own humor and perspectives.

 

Maybe I'll try one more episode but with reduced expectations. It was a good show for a couple of seasons after all.

[purist]

Wonderful stuff from Mallory Ortberg in The Toast: Things I Have Yelled At My Television, Which Cannot Hear Me, While Watching “Miss Fisher’s Mysteries” During My Convalescence.

[EllieH]

Having just finished Season 3, I'd agree it was just not as strong as the first 2 seasons, but still a pretty solid outing, with a couple of pretty good episodes.  I'll watch the future movie, and if there's a season 4, I'll watch that too!

 

 

Maybe I'll try one more episode but with reduced expectations.

 

"Death and Hysteria" and the tennis one were my favorites, I'd recommend those.

Edited October 11, 2015 by EllieH

[GaT]

Where did Jane go? I don't remember seeing her for a long time.

[Ceindreadh]

Where did Jane go? I don't remember seeing her for a long time.

 

IIRC, in Season 2 she was sent off to school in Europe and came back in the final episode.  I don't remember her being mentioned at all during S3.

[GaT]

IIRC, in Season 2 she was sent off to school in Europe and came back in the final episode.  I don't remember her being mentioned at all during S3.

Thanks, do you know if Jane is in the books? I've never read any of the books, so I wonder if the changes we're seeing in season 3 are bringing things closer to the books or further away.

[Ceindreadh]

Thanks, do you know if Jane is in the books? I've never read any of the books, so I wonder if the changes we're seeing in season 3 are bringing things closer to the books or further away.

I haven't read the books myself either, but from what I've read about them, AFAIK, Jane is in the books and I think Phrynne has another foster daughter as well. 

[GaT]

I haven't read the books myself either, but from what I've read about them, AFAIK, Jane is in the books and I think Phrynne has another foster daughter as well. 

So I guess they're moving further away. Since I've never read them, I don't know if that's good or bad.

[purist]

Yes, in the books Phryne has two foster daughters, Jane and Ruth. Jane is clever and bookish and very interested in science and medicine; Ruth is a very fine cook.

 

In the books, time doesn't mean much. The series is like The Simpsons in that all the stories happen in roughly the same year and none of the main characters gets much older or has any really major life events (births/deaths/marriages). It works perfectly in the books but probably wouldn't translate to TV.

[allonsyalice]

I just finished binging this series on netflix. (and the wait between finishing series 2 and starting season 3 seemed endless!)

I'm not sure I wholly agree with you who say that Phryne's swagger is gone. I think it's just changed a little bit. (but I agree, I'd like to see her process more.) I like that Dot stepped up a bit more this season, and that she found that place for her between her traditional upbringing and being more modern. (also, all the tears when she got married)

 

Death at the Grand and the tennis episode were easily the best two episodes this season.

 

Seriously want her father written out, never to be bought up again.  

 

As much as I hate to be typing this, and as much as I loved the final scene, I kinda wish Jack and Phryne hadn't kissed. Like they're chemistry is ridiculous and everything, yeah, but I wish it'd been left at a cliff hanger. 

 

It wasn't as good as the first two series' but it wasn't completely awful. The show is still enjoyable, I still love all the cases and how they end in the way I never thought they would. I think it's just settled now, and now the show needs something to kick back into gear.

[Carrie Ann]

Having watched it twice now (and rewatched the other seasons), I honestly didn't feel much difference in the quality level of Season 3, or in Phryne's demeanor or her ability to take a lover. I thought it was fairly apparent she'd gotten with the Italian guy and her Air Force former flame, at least. And there were other possibilities along the way that just didn't pan out. But yeah, I guess I don't see it as a problem that Phryne would develop as a character and not stay static. So if her interest in other men has waned while her feelings for Jack have grown, that doesn't bother me at all. It doesn't take away from her strength as a character, in fact it deepens her for me. But to each their own.

 

I think my only complaints about the season were the Baron (ugh), the lack of Jane--I don't need her around all the time, but I do like her and her dynamic with Phryne--and I guess I felt like Dot's leap to really wanting to take an active part in investigating was kind of abrupt. I knew she wanted to stay with Phryne and that she liked helping her, but it was more backgrounded in the past, less explicitly about the detective work.

[GaT]

That may have been the scariest vibrator I have ever seen.

[pootlus]

Article in the Guardian website (front page status!): http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2015/oct/13/how-miss-fishers-mysteries-conquered-america

 

Mention of the movie but no mention of a S4.

[mzpriss]

I'm glad I wasn't the only one Season 3 didn't entirely work for.  I was really, really disappointed in this season.  I loved the first two so much and I wanted to love this season but I just didn't.  My problems with it were:

 

1.  It felt rushed, like there no time to really think about what they were putting on the screen.  In the past, I think the care and thought put into the show was very apparent, but not feeling it this time.  Maybe this is because they didn't know for a while whether or not there would even BE a Season 3.  At first I was really sad when I saw there were only 8 episodes, but given what I see as the problems they had with these 8, maybe that's a good thing.

 

2.  The characters all felt "shallower" somehow.  Not that I mean shallow as human beings, just less richly realized than they were in the past seasons.  They just didn't reasonate with me the way they've done previously - felt almost "cartoony" to me.  To me, it was especially noticable with Phryne.  She seemed less real, more forced, almost like a windup toy that got wound up too tightly.  This saddens me because I LOVE her.

 

3.  Jack/Phryne - sigh.  Oh well.  I'm losing interest in them as a couple - not much heat here anymore.

 

4.  No Jane.  Too little Hugh, too little Bert and Ces. There can NEVER be enough Mr. Butler.  And the father is just AWFUL.  The entire episode introducing him was not enjoyable to me.  Plus I didn't like the way Phyrne reacted to all the things with/about her father - it seemed kind of forced into a box that didn't feel natural.

 

5.    Was it necessary to kill off Arthur?

 

6  I did love Dot and Hugh's wedding - I thought they did it perfectly.

 

I will be really upset if they move the series to London.  In order for the series to work for me, I need what I consider to be all the "real" parts:  Phryne, Jack, Dot and Hugh, MR. AWESOME BUTLER, Bert and Ces, Mac and Aunt P and I just don't see how they coherently move every sngle one of those characters to London.  I could be wrong though - maybe they can.

 

On one hand, I want to say that some, even imperfect Miss Fisher is better than NO Miss Fisher but I'm not sure I will spend the time to keep watching if it continues down the Season 3 path.

 

 

[JustaPerson]

Poor Neville (the constable)! I felt so bad for him but of course Dot stayed true to Hugh

[purist]

Ooh, a 2016 Miss Fisher calendar!

[purist]

Season 3 has been nominated for Best TV Drama Series in the AACTA Awards (Australia's equivalent of the Golden Globes), and episode 1 of the season has been nominated for Best Costume Design.

[Reo]

So, because I loved the series so much, I've been reading the books, and now I don't love the series so much.  The books are so much better.  And way, way different.  I'm on book 12 right now and chowing right through them.  Some major differences:

 

Jack is happily married to a plump lady named Rosie, and dotes on her and their children.  He raises orchids.  He admires Phryne, but there is no hint of anything more.  He's not a major part of every case, for sure,  but is more of a background character.

 

No Aunt Prudence - she doesn't exist, at least so far.  Phryne is in Melbourne escaping her family, who want her to have a London season and marry into the aristocracy.  Because her grandmother left her a trust which she received at 25, she was an artist's model in Paris after the war (who invested very wisely in many, many paintings dirt cheap before their creators became famous), and her pension from being an ambulance driver in the war, she is financially independent of them - which rankles them to no end.  She is also a shrewd investor and has significantly increased her capital.  We've never met mom and dad, but it's obvious that she kinda loathes her father.

 

The man that Phryne is most involved with is Lin Chung, her England born and Oxford educated seriously wealthy Chinese lover, who adores her.  They are way more of an item than on the series.  He figures in most of the books and often is a part of her cases.  I think she loves him dearly, but is committed to marrying no one ever.  She becomes his official concubine after he marries. This is with the consent of his Chinese bride and his grandmother, after saving his ass from pirates.  Phryne is cheerfully promiscuous and seduces anyone who takes her fancy, delighting in all different sorts of people other than her class and nationality.  She is also completely honest about it, although it is difficult because the Chinese are seriously discriminated against in that time and place.  Missing from the show is Li Pen, Lin Chung's personal bodyguard who is a Shaolin monk.  

 

Hugh is not man on the spot in the police department, although he is Dot's lover (if chaste kisses count).  We don't see him all of the time.  Not a word is spoken about religious incompatibility - if I recall correctly, he's a Catholic, too.  And Dot has no intentions of becoming a modern woman like Phryne, she is content with who she is.  Although she loves and respects her mistress, she doesn't want to be like her.  She is willing to have a long engagement with Hugh as he moves slowly up the ladder.  They are planning on wedding when he becomes a Detective Sargent, which will take years.

 

There are two foster daughters, Jane and Ruth, who Phryne rescues and raises.  They do go away to school, but are back for all the holidays and weekends.  Their relationship is delightful.  So are the Butlers.  Mrs. Butler runs the house and the kitchen, and is a phenomenal cook.

 

Mysteries are better - only similar to the ones on the show, not the same by any means - and focus more on Phryne's abilities and the collection of friends and family she has chosen to build around herself.  She is way more adventurous and elegant without having to gold-plate her gun to be a badass.  (She has a little pearl handled revolver instead of the monstrosity in the show).  

 

I'm seriously enjoying the books.  The series is beautifully filmed and acted, the costumes gorgeous, the stories entertaining - but the Phryne in the series is a pale shadow of the Phryne in the books.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Reo

[OnceSane]

While IA that Phryne's father is unnecessary, didn't mind him most of the time. But I hated the jealousy trope where Jack's jealous because no one tells him the dude's just her dad.

[OnceSane]

I liked the episode. I particularly liked Dot standing firm with Hugh that how she resolves her career and her life as a wife is up to her. Dot has definitely grown in self-assurance. And I enjoyed the gender-swapping pilot.

[OnceSane]

I laughed out loud when Dot said "Ladies first!" and strode ahead of Hugh when it was time to call Phryne and Jack.

[GaT]

Hmm, I may have to pick up the books, they sound a lot more interesting than the show.

[purist]

Here is a terrific piece in Vanity Fair about Miss Fisher's costumes.