S02.E06: A Happy Refrain

[Dewey Decimate]

Can't believe I wait-listed this ep for a week and a half - it's my FAVORITE of both seasons so far. I cannot remember laughing harder at any recent television show; I was cracking up through almost the entire thing. The idiot twins racing to the bridge, Yaphit's attempt to score the rebound, Bortus' taking Gordon's advice, Ed's gossip-camoflauge; by golly, even Kelly's dialogue was funny!

And good Avis, the "scandalous" age difference? For real? If I had enough fingers on which to count all the real-life celebrity relationships with a 20+ year difference in which the MAN is the elder, I'd be the Orville's new piano teacher. You go, girl!

[lucindabelle]

It probably has been said before but the amount of pop culture that remains 400 years from now is incredible. Everyone knows singin in the rain? Kid is playing Chopin?

(which by the way is an an INCREDIBLY hard etude- the part we heard was the easy part the middle section is all sixths and no kid how old is he eight? Even has the handspan for it! Why couldn’t he have been playing you know a waltz or something plausible

The running cracked me up too

issac was perfect and smooth looking and much too young looking for Fin but I rationalized it as he’s smooth like a robot... and I thought he was feeling something. Whatever he tells himself that banana is just what a male mammal does for a female he’s courting.

[marinw]

If we have a Space Symphony, next I want a literal Space Opera.

[Emma9]

On February 4, 2019 at 11:51 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Another issue I have is that it seems to me that Isaac's belief in the superiority of artificial intelligence should be a dealbreaker for a woman as sophisticated as Claire. I at least can't imagine a romantic relationship with someone who thinks you're inferior.

That's a very good point, but it also opens the doors for some interesting character development. After all, the first scene of this episode was Isaac remarking on how unlikely it is that a biological lifeform could ever assist him with his research - and then he spent the rest of it seeking courtship advice from the crew.

As you say, we haven't gotten much information on Kaylon yet, and I think that's definitely being held for a future plotline. What happens when they determine Isaac has gathered enough information? Will they want to join the Union, or shun it, or even become hostile? My guess is one of the latter. Would Isaac go along, or try to advocate for them joining? Would being put in the position of choosing sides force him to reexamine his opinions on what humans have to offer?

(Note: I haven't watched TNG (TOS Trekkie only), so I have no idea what kind of a story arc Data had and what similarities they might try and avoid with Isaac, so I might be speculating wildly off-track.)

I could also be giving the show too much worldbuilding credit again, but Alara and Bortus have both gotten episodes expounding on their culture and set on their home planets. I'd think something of the sort will eventually happen with Isaac.

[AnimeMania]

8 hours ago, marinw said:

If we have a Space Symphony, next I want a literal Space Opera.

I was a little disappointed that all the instruments in the orchestra appeared to be the same and look the same as they do now. They could have added some new instruments or made them out of exotic materials like plexiglass with LED lighting. Some of the performers were in in alien costumes though.

[Raja]

8 hours ago, marinw said:

If we have a Space Symphony, next I want a literal Space Opera.

Be careful what you wish for, Trek had their snippets of Klingon opera 

6 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

I was a little disappointed that all the instruments in the orchestra appeared to be the same and look the same as they do now. They could have added some new instruments or made them out of exotic materials like plexiglass with LED lighting. Some of the performers were in in alien costumes though.

I took it like a tribute band. Even with aliens you want the proper look and as close to the correct instrumentation of the period you are performing.

[welnoc]

On 2/13/2019 at 1:22 AM, lucindabelle said:

It probably has been said before but the amount of pop culture that remains 400 years from now is incredible. Everyone knows singin in the rain? Kid is playing Chopin?

Well, it's not at all practical for the writers to invent more recent pop culture because then it wouldn't mean anything to the audience watching the show and the humorous impact would be lost. Those cultural references are for us, not them so much.

And there have been a few times when others didn't get Ed's pop culture references. Maybe I'm reading into it too much but I always assumed if was a bit of an in-joke about needing to use more recent pop culture. 

And who's to say what "pop" culture will still be known in another 400 years? Bach is still popular today after nearly 400 years so you never know.

[Dewey Decimate]

On 2/13/2019 at 8:38 AM, Emma9 said:

That's a very good point, but it also opens the doors for some interesting character development. After all, the first scene of this episode was Isaac remarking on how unlikely it is that a biological lifeform could ever assist him with his research - and then he spent the rest of it seeking courtship advice from the crew.

Whoa - brilliant point!

I'm interested in seeing more of the Finn-Isaac relationship. But I may be biased, as Spock was always my ST:TOS favorite crush. Hell, I even have a bizarre attraction to David from Prometheus (well, ignoring the genocidal turn he took in Alien: Covenant....). Guess I have a type!

Hours after watching this ep I was humming "Singing in the Rain" and it struck me that this was the first time I could think of that song without instinctive revulsion stemming from its use in A Clockwork Orange. Kudos to the show for giving a positive association in line with the song's original movie!

[ganesh]

42 minutes ago, welnoc said:

And who's to say what "pop" culture will still be known in another 400 years? Bach is still popular today after nearly 400 years so you never know.

So is Shakespeare. 

42 minutes ago, welnoc said:

And there have been a few times when others didn't get Ed's pop culture references.

Ed said Kelly liked Journey, but I'm not recalling anyone else talking about 80s music though, so they each might have their things they like. 

They all knew Doctor Who though. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

35 minutes ago, welnoc said:

Well, it's not at all practical for the writers to invent more recent pop culture because then it wouldn't mean anything to the audience watching the show and the humorous impact would be lost. Those cultural references are for us, not them so much.

And there have been a few times when others didn't get Ed's pop culture references. Maybe I'm reading into it too much but I always assumed if was a bit of an in-joke about needing to use more recent pop culture. 

And who's to say what "pop" culture will still be known in another 400 years? Bach is still popular today after nearly 400 years so you never know.

This is one of my pet peeves about the show. Not only would there be the 400 years of Earth pop culture, but also thousands of years of Moclan, Xelayan, etc etc pop culture that would be part of the fabric of our characters' lives. 

Having our heroes not just be familiar with things like Journey, Singing in the Rain and the King and I (like the average person today might be familiar with Bach but would be potentially pressed to name his "greatest hits"), but love and actively spend time listening to them seems a stretch. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

So is Shakespeare. 

Ed said Kelly liked Journey, but I'm not recalling anyone else talking about 80s music though, so they each might have their things they like. 

They all knew Doctor Who though. 

Shakespeare is a pretty one-of-a-kind talent, and the average person probably only knows his more famous plays -- Hamlet, Romeo & Juliet, Othello, MacBeth and a few others. Strikes me as unlikely that people would know the deep cuts of Shakespeare's contemporaries.

The recent Krill episode had Billy Joel references too.

[welnoc]

36 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

This is one of my pet peeves about the show. Not only would there be the 400 years of Earth pop culture, but also thousands of years of Moclan, Xelayan, etc etc pop culture that would be part of the fabric of our characters' lives. 

Having our heroes not just be familiar with things like Journey, Singing in the Rain and the King and I (like the average person today might be familiar with Bach but would be potentially pressed to name his "greatest hits"), but love and actively spend time listening to them seems a stretch. 

You seem to be missing my point -audiences have no frame of reference for Moclan pop culture or Xelayan either. What makes the earthly pop-culture references so funny is that they are out of context.

Anyway, we did see the Moclan game with that egg thing and Ed being injured. Xelaya seems to be an entire planet of serious-minded scholars who apparently hold in contempt anything that isn't "high-minded". There may be more as the series progresses, it's still early days yet. But even if they do, imo, they won't be as funny as two earthers grooving to Journey 400 years later.

As for the "average" person, I consider myself one and I listen to classical musical all the time. I like 80s pop music too. I love The Orville but I love Jane Austen too. I don't think it's possible to make a sweeping generalization about what will be remembered and enjoyed in the future. Perhaps in 400 years late 20th century pop culture will be an off-shoot of the Society for Creative Anachranism. 

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, welnoc said:

You seem to be missing my point -audiences have no frame of reference for Moclan pop culture or Xelayan either. What makes the earthly pop-culture references so funny is that they are out of context.

It's part of the suspension of disbelief in all scifi shows though. They did the same thing on Farscape, and the main character (John) was the only human. "Boy was Spielberg ever wrong!"

Though best scene - they all land on a jungle planet and one of the other characters (not from Earth) turns to John - "Looks like Dagobah, and your Yoda." 

They can give us interesting things about the characters - we know Bortus likes to sing and has a good voice, but making a joke about a specific song he likes isn't going to work. 

They did even talk about the poets on the Moclan planet within the context of the gender reassignment though. So as long as you get a feel for the cultures, I think that's really the best the show can do. 

Edited February 14, 2019 by ganesh

[Emma9]

On 2/13/2019 at 1:22 AM, lucindabelle said:

It probably has been said before but the amount of pop culture that remains 400 years from now is incredible.

The anachronistic references don't bother me because they're so clearly a parody. Some of the other things that this show does for humor do get in the way of worldbuilding or story, imo, but remarks about pine-tree air-fresheners, double-esophagus dudebro, the dancing Bortus and Kelly birthday card, etc etc - the gimmick of the show is 'what if a bunch of 21st-century weirdos ran a starship', and it works in that context.

welnoc also makes a good point about SCA et al; besides, we're currently living in the first generation where it's considered normal to archive basically all media in perpetuity. Who knows what that will mean for the longevity of various aspects of culture down the line?

And I don't recall specifically, but I think in the scene where Isaac was listing off Claire's preferences, her favorite movie and actor were mentioned as something more recent (to the Orville's time).

Edited February 14, 2019 by Emma9

[ketose]

5 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

This is one of my pet peeves about the show. Not only would there be the 400 years of Earth pop culture, but also thousands of years of Moclan, Xelayan, etc etc pop culture that would be part of the fabric of our characters' lives. 

Having our heroes not just be familiar with things like Journey, Singing in the Rain and the King and I (like the average person today might be familiar with Bach but would be potentially pressed to name his "greatest hits"), but love and actively spend time listening to them seems a stretch. 

Obviously, they are using the Universal Culture translator.

[lucindabelle]

On 2/14/2019 at 6:59 PM, ketose said:

Obviously, they are using the Universal Culture translator.

Hah. 

Yeah, the kid playing that SUPER HARD Chopin etude shows that culture seems to only extend backward. And no new instruments? In all honesty the piano is a ridiculous instrument to have in a spaceship anyway, it's heavy and sensitive and easily thrown out of tune...

The doc's reference to that one movie is to my recollection the first time they've even tried to do that.

[RedHawk]

On 2/14/2019 at 12:10 PM, Dewey Decimate said:

Whoa - brilliant point!

I'm interested in seeing more of the Finn-Isaac relationship. But I may be biased, as Spock was always my ST:TOS favorite crush. Hell, I even have a bizarre attraction to David from Prometheus (well, ignoring the genocidal turn he took in Alien: Covenant....). Guess I have a type!

Hours after watching this ep I was humming "Singing in the Rain" and it struck me that this was the first time I could think of that song without instinctive revulsion stemming from its use in A Clockwork Orange. Kudos to the show for giving a positive association in line with the song's original movie!

David in “Promethus” was played by Michael Fassbender and was styling himself to look like Peter O’Toole playing T.E. Lawrence — that’s like a double 10 in my book and I don’t care if it’s all wires underneath!

I didn’t even think of “Clockwork Orange”, so yes, it was just delightful and I agree this is what I’ll think of next time I hear the song. And then I’ll continue to wonder if every sensitive instrument on the bridge really was water-resistant. 

Edited February 22, 2019 by RedHawk

[Biosynth]

On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 11:24 AM, welnoc said:

I'm saddened by the comments people have made about the age differences of the two actors. I actually appreciated that they didn't try to "age up" Mark Jackson and that Claire made no reference to his youthful look. In an episode that was addressing the idea of love beyond the conventional that would have been pretty f#cking stupid. If you love someone, nothing else should matter. Societal constraints be damned.

Not to mention that there was that episode, "Mad Idolatry" in which Isaac went to that planet from a different timeline.  He spent 7 centuries there.  So, technically, Isaac had quite a lot of years on him.  He's centuries old.  Just because his character LOOKS 25 doesn't mean that he's 25.  And anyway, what does it matter, really.  I'm 6 years older than my husband and we make it work just fine.

[The Companion]

On 2/2/2019 at 10:24 AM, welnoc said:

I'm saddened by the comments people have made about the age differences of the two actors. I actually appreciated that they didn't try to "age up" Mark Jackson and that Claire made no reference to his youthful look. In an episode that was addressing the idea of love beyond the conventional that would have been pretty f#cking stupid. If you love someone, nothing else should matter. Societal constraints be damned.

Everyone on that crew took it seriously. They were taken aback certainly, but they reacted to both Claire and Isaac with a great deal of sensitivity, even with LeMarr's awful advice.

I'm starting to really admire Seth McFarlane. 

Agreed both on being disappointed on the age comments and appreciating the way the crew was so supportive.

On 2/3/2019 at 3:50 PM, marinw said:

Although The Orville is more episodic than serialized, I do appreciate the attention to continuity. Another example from this season is the ramifications of Topo’s sex change surgery, and how it contributed to Bortus’s porn addiction

The continuity on this show is great. They don't forget about stuff by the next episode. I really appreciate that.

FWIW, I am pregnant, so I would definitely appreciate a chocolate cake at 3 am. Claire is missing out.

[Gothish520]

First thing I said to my husband when Isaac broke it off with Finn after telling her that he had completed the human dating experience: "Seriously? After she tries to end it, he pursues her until he gets what he wants, then he calls it off? So typical!"

Said mostly with humor and amusement, of course. 😄

We just started watching the show a month or so ago, just finished S2 Ep7. We are really enjoying it, and I'm so glad it got a third season. It has definitely exceeded my expectations - well done SMF, and kudos to all involved.

[Jynnan tonnix]

On 2/3/2019 at 10:35 PM, Rambler said:

Is the actor playing Claire’s son some sort of musical prodigy? I don't know a thing about pianos, but it looked like he was playing the notes for realz.

It looked to me as though he might  be playing a simplified version- his right hand was more or less matching up with the notes in the melody, but there was a lot less going on than there would have been in the original piece. 

I took piano lessons for some seven years back in the day, and while I played some Chopin, this was not one of the pieces I ever learned - though I did try to play that part of it at some point. As someone else in this thread said, kids that age simply don't have the hand span for Chopin, and would have to play a modified version of many of his compositions at best. My hands were never quite big enough for some of the chords even when I reached adulthood.

But, yeah, he did appear to have some familiarity with the keyboard, which I appreciated. I hate it when characters in a show or movie badly mime playing. At least learning the basic fingering of the melody line goes such a long way toward making it look convincing. 

[supposebly]

Ugh. The obligatory story about the tin man that gets a heart. All I could think was, get a vibrator, lady, that has as many feelings as this one. And some time with some of Bortus' programs. And then find someone who can reasonably reciprocate. It's like falling in love with the emotionally unavailable guy. But she already knows that. I hoped for a better character development for Claire than something stupid like this.

I like this show, but I hate those types of storylines. Just let the tin man be a tin man. That's why you like him. Not the guy the woman needs to change in order to make him a suitable boyfriend.