Million Dollar Listing LA - General Discussion

[Surrealist]

8 hours ago, Marley said:

None of these ppl are self made.

They aren't, and I often wonder why I continue to watch this show. These people live in their own small bubbles.

The house porn keeps me coming back, I suppose. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Surrealist

[dleighg]

12 hours ago, Marley said:

None of these ppl are self made.

the preview for next week (Tracy selling her sister's house-- in the $20M range!) shows that (very likely) Tracy comes from lots of dough (unless her sister just "married well")

And speaking of Fredrik's trophy husband, his art (which I hadn't seen before) is ugly.

[CrazyInAlabama]

Tracy comes from billionaire money, Flagg comes from old family money, and I don't know about the others, but they're all safely in the multimillionaire range. 

[TheLastKidPicked]

18 hours ago, Marley said:

None of these ppl are self made.

 

10 hours ago, Surrealist said:

They aren't, and I often wonder why I continue to watch this show. These people live in their own small bubbles.

1 hour ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

Tracy comes from billionaire money, Flagg comes from old family money, and I don't know about the others, but they're all safely in the multimillionaire range. 

The show is fun to watch, but there is a tinge of sadness to hear how during the pandemic, the rich just get even richer.  I wonder how the construction workers, roofers, and painters who actually do the work of building those houses feel about that.

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by TheLastKidPicked

[Surrealist]

I'm finally watching last week's ep. On which side of her twenties is Dolph's fiancée? 😂

[Medicine Crow]

I saw Tracy on some show saying the men "claim" to like independent & successful women, until they're married.  Their tune changes to bossy & over-bearing, or something to that effect.  Very true!!

[Surrealist]

4 hours ago, Medicine Crow said:

I saw Tracy on some show saying the men "claim" to like independent & successful women, until they're married.  Their tune changes to bossy & over-bearing, or something to that effect.  Very true!!

I agree with her too. I can't tell you how many times men have told me how much they love how independent and direct I am. Until we get together. They usually end up with someone who's the complete opposite.

[Stan39]

I really wish the show would focus even more on the real estate and financing. I thought the most interesting part of last week’s episode was Tracy explaining that “all cash” doesn’t mean the buyer has to cut a check for the full amount, just that they need to show they have the means for the OPTION to pay cash. That makes so much of this real estate boom make sense. I think the Uber wealthy use their assets as collateral for borrowing the money to go out and buy more assets. This explains why rich people buy a lot of properties for all cash, debt is so cheap right now that they’re probably showing proof of funds but then taking out loans anyway so they can buy a bigger portfolio. It explains why rich people still implode when there’s a down market. They’re not buying and investing conservatively like the rest of us, they’re actually highly leveraged, have a lot of debt and illiquid assets when markets turn then get screwed. Of course, that’s a generalization and I’m sure there are some rich people out there just buying their dream home, but I think a lot of Californians just buy physical assets as investments. Then there’s the whole “depreciation” thing that rich people use to show their assets actually LOSE money on paper so they can avoid higher taxes. I recently learned the tax code doesn’t differentiate types of cars, so a lot of rich people buy high end cars as investments, claim they depreciate while they own them even though the high end car market increases in value, then can sell for a profit and pay less tax. 

[Surrealist]

5 hours ago, Stan39 said:

I really wish the show would focus even more on the real estate and financing. I thought the most interesting part of last week’s episode was Tracy explaining that “all cash” doesn’t mean the buyer has to cut a check for the full amount, just that they need to show they have the means for the OPTION to pay cash. That makes so much of this real estate boom make sense. I think the Uber wealthy use their assets as collateral for borrowing the money to go out and buy more assets. This explains why rich people buy a lot of properties for all cash, debt is so cheap right now that they’re probably showing proof of funds but then taking out loans anyway so they can buy a bigger portfolio. It explains why rich people still implode when there’s a down market. They’re not buying and investing conservatively like the rest of us, they’re actually highly leveraged, have a lot of debt and illiquid assets when markets turn then get screwed. Of course, that’s a generalization and I’m sure there are some rich people out there just buying their dream home, but I think a lot of Californians just buy physical assets as investments. Then there’s the whole “depreciation” thing that rich people use to show their assets actually LOSE money on paper so they can avoid higher taxes. I recently learned the tax code doesn’t differentiate types of cars, so a lot of rich people buy high end cars as investments, claim they depreciate while they own them even though the high end car market increases in value, then can sell for a profit and pay less tax. 

This is when I like this show the best too. Obviously I love the real estate porn, but I enjoy learning about the real estate business. I liked that this series was moving back to that, and all the brokers were getting along.

[dleighg]

16 minutes ago, Surrealist said:

I liked that this series was moving back to that, and all the brokers were getting along.

I do too, but I thought that Fredrik's housewarming party was ridiculous. I know it's for the show, but who has a housewarming party and invites a (completely non) random set of competitors in the real estate business, and say, none of the neighbors????

[Marley]

Adding Fredrik was a mistake. He’s ruining the show.

[oakville]

11 hours ago, Stan39 said:

I really wish the show would focus even more on the real estate and financing. I thought the most interesting part of last week’s episode was Tracy explaining that “all cash” doesn’t mean the buyer has to cut a check for the full amount, just that they need to show they have the means for the OPTION to pay cash. That makes so much of this real estate boom make sense. I think the Uber wealthy use their assets as collateral for borrowing the money to go out and buy more assets. This explains why rich people buy a lot of properties for all cash, debt is so cheap right now that they’re probably showing proof of funds but then taking out loans anyway so they can buy a bigger portfolio. It explains why rich people still implode when there’s a down market. They’re not buying and investing conservatively like the rest of us, they’re actually highly leveraged, have a lot of debt and illiquid assets when markets turn then get screwed. Of course, that’s a generalization and I’m sure there are some rich people out there just buying their dream home, but I think a lot of Californians just buy physical assets as investments. Then there’s the whole “depreciation” thing that rich people use to show their assets actually LOSE money on paper so they can avoid higher taxes. I recently learned the tax code doesn’t differentiate types of cars, so a lot of rich people buy high end cars as investments, claim they depreciate while they own them even though the high end car market increases in value, then can sell for a profit and pay less tax. 

I know that most buyers on this show pay for the property "all cash". This helps avoid the dreaded "conditional on financing" clause where the banks appraiser could value the property at a lower amount than the selling price. It would affect the amount that the bank would lend to the buyer & could potentially void the sale.

 

[Surrealist]

2 hours ago, Marley said:

Adding Fredrik was a mistake. He’s ruining the show.

I'll have to watch tonight's episode a little later, but this is what I was afraid was going to happen.

Edited October 1, 2021 by Surrealist

[Marley]

I’m starting to hate this show. The rich keep getting richer and arguing about a few hundred thousand or whatever is not as fun to watch anymore.

Tracy’s sister bought the house for 13 million and is saying a 25 million offer is ridiculous and is freaking out? Please. They both are annoying as hell. And the fact that their father is a billionaire developer makes their success less impressive to me. I mean I’m barely a thousandaire lol but they both are gross to me.

I might stop watching but there’s nothing else on really. Flagg is the only entertaining part about the show. The whole I choose my buyer thing is tiring. Bleh.

Edited October 2, 2021 by Marley

[dbell1]

I watch everything on dvr these days. Best part of that is being able to fast forward through Fredrik. I can’t stand the facials, the fake shock and outrage, and the Instagram ready family unit. 

Seeing Suzanne Somers made me feel very old. I can see that place becoming a yoga retreat, spa, drug rehab for the rich or something. Something involving crystals or beads or healing energy. 😂 Ohm.

Hi Bobby, glad to see you’re making your parent’s wish come true. Good luck getting Josh to take a break, although the old people in the area might appeal to him. He can find new friends. I freaking love Flagg, he’s an encyclopedia of what’s formerly hip and coming back again.
 

[dleighg]

That secret wine cellar in Tracy's sister's house? "And it's large enough to have a table."

Why did they have a table that was taking up so much space that you'd have to scoot by sideways to get to the other end, and there's no way you could have chairs on the sides of the table? 

[sugarbaker design]

9 hours ago, Marley said:

The rich keep getting richer Ian’s arguing about a few hundred thousand or whatever is not as fun to watch anymore.

Watching a seller reduce her price from $34M to $29.9M and get an offer for $25.5M is hilarious.  It provides me with much needed schadenfreude.

[Stan39]

1 hour ago, sugarbaker design said:

Watching a seller reduce her price from $34M to $29.9M and get an offer for $25.5M is hilarious.  It provides me with much needed schadenfreude.

This is the part of the show that still cracks me up.  All these people talk about how “baller” and “tough” they are and how great they are at business. 
 

Quick math lesson, selling a house for $34M 11 years after buying it for $13.2M gives you an annual rate of return of about 9% on your investment (and yes I know that’s not how you properly measure real estate returns). That return is before the seller pays commission fees and any work she’s done to the house. Still, pretty good return for a house. During that same time period Tracy’s sister could have just bought low cost index funds of the S&P 500 and gotten an annual rate of return around 13%. As it stands, with the price reduction and David’s low ball offer it looks like the pre-commission fees selling price will net the sister an annualized return around 7%. And the same can be said about the other houses they’re selling in this “hot market”. 
 

At the end of the day these people are rich and are going to buy expensive houses to live in anyway, it just makes me cringe to hear them talk about this from a “business perspective” without really comparing what they do to other asset classes. There are still easier ways to make typically more money than buying and selling your residency. I love Tracy, but when she and her sister try to come off like their daddy’s billions don’t help support them it’s super cringey. 
 

Speaking of, Fredrik’s buyers (who didn’t buy) are just trust fund kids right? She’s a “painter” who has horses and he’s a??? “technology recruitment advertising business owner”? I swear when he said it it sounded like he was just picking nouns to say like in an ad libs game. 

[Surrealist]

3 hours ago, Stan39 said:

Speaking of, Fredrik’s buyers (who didn’t buy) are just trust fund kids right? She’s a “painter” who has horses and he’s a??? “technology recruitment advertising business owner”? 

I assume this about most of the people on the show.

Or that they were fortunate enough to marry wealthy.

[dleighg]

6 hours ago, Stan39 said:

She’s a “painter”

I noticed that. She has come up with an "occupation" to make it sound like she isn't just living off someone else's money. I have to say, I at least credit Tracy for (apparently) working pretty hard even though she probably doesn't have to. I'm early-retired, but am living off money that my husband and I put away over many years, so I don't have to come up with a fake "occupation" LOL

[CrazyInAlabama]

I've read that buying in Palm Springs is trendy for people who want a second home, or the ones who don't want to buy a place in L.A. or San Francisco, so they rent in L.A. or S.F., and then they buy a Palm Springs home, and vacation there, and later retire there.   Palm Springs isn't that far from L.A. so people often buy fancy houses to rent for short term rentals, fully furnished.    You have to get the right neighborhood for short term rentals though.     That's also where a lot of movie stars had estates, Bob Hope, Frank Sinatra, and Cary Grant all had houses there. However, I don't remember any of the Rat Pack, or old Hollywood homes going for their initial asking price, so buying an estate there is not going to be profitable, just a really nice house with entertaining space.    

Edited October 2, 2021 by CrazyInAlabama

[amarante]

The British guys don't come from significant wealth. They weren't impoverished but at best they were normal middle class. I believe one of them was raised by a single mother.

Altman's parents aren't super wealthy either. I think the father is a professional but there is a difference between being a high salary professional and having the kind of wealth that Flagg's family have. Flagg has trust funds from both the maternal and paternal sides.

 

[SilverLake0315]

Love Flagg. He just delights me to no end. 

Can’t stand Fredrik. What’s with the suuuuuuper soft focus filtered interviews? Eesh. 

Tracy’s sister is… not my cup of tea. 

[CruiseDiva]

27 minutes ago, SilverLake0315 said:

Love Flagg. He just delights me to no end.

Interesting meeting Flagg had with Suzanne Sommers. Her Palm Springs home is certainly one of a kind.

I met her in 2014 on a cruise ship when she hosted a fan group. As part of the media group I was invited to attend her one woman show and she was quite entertaining. As you can see from the photo my husband took of her, she looks quite different now than she did seven years ago.

[Marley]

Altman’s parents have an estate I’m pretty sure in Aspen. So yea he’s not Flagg rich but they aren’t normal working ppl lol.

[Cheezwiz]

I can kind of see why Suzanne Somers Palm Springs estate has been sitting on the market for decades, despite the stunning views and man-made waterfall. It's rambling, disjointed, confusing as hell, and as much as I adore old houses with their quirks, nothing appealed to me. It just looked dated and frankly, kinda crusty. 

After watching a few eps, I now secretly want to be Josh Flagg's bestie, have him personally tour me around L.A. and sneak me into vacant historic houses that up for sale, so that we can talk about coved ceilings, bespoke wallpaper, and batchelder fireplace tiles.

Years ago, I used to watch Million Dollar Listing New York, and I really enjoyed Frederik on that series - he may not have been everyone's cup of tea, but he seemed to have a work ethic, and took what he did seriously. He just bugs the hell out of me on this series - non-stop mugging and awkwardness. His brother sounded nice on the phone.

I like Tracy, but her sister, not so much. Really, these rich folk are ridiculous.

Edited October 2, 2021 by Cheezwiz

[Surrealist]

1 hour ago, Cheezwiz said:

Years ago, I used to watch Million Dollar Listing New York, and I really enjoyed Frederik on that series - he may not have been everyone's cup of tea, but he seemed to have a work ethic, and took what he did seriously. He just bugs the hell out of me on this series - non-stop mugging and awkwardness. His brother sounded nice on the phone.

Like you, I liked Fredrik on the NY series. On the LA one? He's annoying and try hard.

I liked the land Suzanne Somers' property was sitting on, but didn't care for the house either. The layout was awkward, and it was a bit too dark and dated for my taste.

Edited October 2, 2021 by Surrealist

[Stan39]

5 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

I can kind of see why Suzanne Somers Palm Springs estate has been sitting on the market for decades, despite the stunning views and man-made waterfall. It's rambling, disjointed, confusing as hell, and as much as I adore old houses with their quirks, nothing appealed to me. It just looked dated and frankly, kinda crusty. 

After watching a few eps, I now secretly want to be Josh Flagg's bestie, have him personally tour me around L.A. and sneak me into vacant historic houses that up for sale, so that we can talk about coved ceilings, bespoke wallpaper, and batchelder fireplace tiles.

Years ago, I used to watch Million Dollar Listing New York, and I really enjoyed Frederik on that series - he may not have been everyone's cup of tea, but he seemed to have a work ethic, and took what he did seriously. He just bugs the hell out of me on this series - non-stop mugging and awkwardness. His brother sounded nice on the phone.

I like Tracy, but her sister, not so much. Really, these rich folk are ridiculous.

At least they didn’t put Ryan on the show. Talk about fake and mugging for the camera. I think the guy actually sees himself as a comic or actor or something. 
 

Agree with the above poster about Altman. I was going to mention his parents’ estate in Aspen. His father is an author and psychologist for sexual health. I’ve never heard of him but I always got the impression they were loaded. 
 

It sucks, but I can kind of understand the never ending cycle of rich kids getting into luxury real estate. I think Altman started with Mauricio’s group (at least on the show). Somebody like Mauricio gets tons of applicants who want him as a mentor so to stand out he probably hires kids who already have networks of rich people that they can leverage. There’s another show on CNBC following around Aaron Kirman and his group. David Hasselholf’s daughter is in his group and her first commission is her father. The industry is full of nepotism I’m sure, but it must be hard to tell which young kid is going to have what it takes to sell luxury properties. 

[Booger666]

On 9/30/2021 at 7:49 PM, oakville said:

I know that most buyers on this show pay for the property "all cash". This helps avoid the dreaded "conditional on financing" clause where the banks appraiser could value the property at a lower amount than the selling price. It would affect the amount that the bank would lend to the buyer & could potentially void the sale.

 

It’s kind of in between what you and @Stan39 are saying.  I am not rich, but do have investments.  My investment banker, we’ll call “IB”, doesn’t want me to cash out any investments to use as a down payment for a house.  So IB has a program where I get a letter saying that I qualify for all cash house purchase up to $XX.  When I buy house IB does a short term loan for me and pays all cash for the house and quick close.  When deal is done IB works with a mortgage broker to convert the short term loan to a mortgage.  IB benefits cause investments aren’t touched so their fees aren’t negatively impacted, gets fees for short term loan for me, and then gets a referral fee from the mortgage company.  Effectively it is an all cash purchase even though I never had any cash.

Switching gears, I can’t believe Tracy’s sister is a decorator.  That house was really fugly on the inside.  As others have mentioned, the table in the wine cellar was way too large.  And who does a sunken living room these days???  There is a reason they were in style for a very, very short period of time.  

Edited October 2, 2021 by Booger666

[amarante]

10 hours ago, Marley said:

Altman’s parents have an estate I’m pretty sure in Aspen. So yea he’s not Flagg rich but they aren’t normal working ppl lol.

As I stated, the father is an high salary professional - he was a doctor and there is a huge difference between that and the kind of wealth that Flagg was raised with. They are affluent but not obscenely wealthy and Altmann wouldn't have had the kind of trust fund and connections that someone like Flagg had. In the first season, Flagg was quite open that his first clients were friends of his parents and grandmother.

Flagg (and perhaps Tracey) could never work and still have the same lifestyle they have now.    Flagg is a trust fund baby and Altmann isn't. 

Josh went to public school and Syracuse University - privileged as I am sure his tuition and costs were paid but not unlike the lifestyle of many kids who live in affluent suburbs. Altmann didn't have the same kind of financial struggles that kids with less affluent parents have like student loans but his current lifestyle is due to his own efforts as he isn't living even partially off money that was inherited like Flagg or other really affluent people.

[Stan39]

6 minutes ago, amarante said:

As I stated, the father is an high salary professional - he was a doctor and there is a huge difference between that and the kind of wealth that Flagg was raised with. They are affluent but not obscenely wealthy and Altmann wouldn't have had the kind of trust fund and connections that someone like Flagg had. In the first season, Flagg was quite open that his first clients were friends of his parents and grandmother.

Flagg (and perhaps Tracey) could never work and still have the same lifestyle they have now.    Flagg is a trust fund baby and Altmann isn't. 

Josh went to public school and Syracuse University - privileged as I am sure his tuition and costs were paid but not unlike the lifestyle of many kids who live in affluent suburbs. Altmann didn't have the same kind of financial struggles that kids with less affluent parents have like student loans but his current lifestyle is due to his own efforts as he isn't living even partially off money that was inherited like Flagg or other really affluent people.

I agree with all your points. I still think there’s something more to Altman’s situation. Agreed that he didn’t start out like Flagg, but both he and his brother are at similar levels at the high end luxury market. It’s hard enough for one person with “no advantages” to make it in that market let alone two young brothers. Maybe they both independently worked their butts off to make it, but I also wouldn’t be surprised if their dad had a lot of wealthy clients in LA that the brothers could leverage when they got started in the business. 

[amarante]

9 hours ago, Stan39 said:

I agree with all your points. I still think there’s something more to Altman’s situation. Agreed that he didn’t start out like Flagg, but both he and his brother are at similar levels at the high end luxury market. It’s hard enough for one person with “no advantages” to make it in that market let alone two young brothers. Maybe they both independently worked their butts off to make it, but I also wouldn’t be surprised if their dad had a lot of wealthy clients in LA that the brothers could leverage when they got started in the business. 

Altman's father practiced medicine in Boston and also taught there. It is definitely a privileged background and if the Altmann brothers remained in Boston, I am sure they would have had clients from their parents friends - but that is upper middle class and not really wealthy.

They both were extremely driven and obviously very smart. When they moved to Los Angeles, they probably had some form of subsidy so they didn't have to worry about living in their car. But their parents weren't setting them up with an affluent lifestyle. In the early seasons, Altmann had a relatively modest home.

I know both kinds of kids - real trust fund babies like Flagg and those kids who grew up in an affluent home where the parents earned a good salary. I realize Altmann might seem privileged to someone grew up in a working class home but Altmann did not have anything "handed" to him. I realize it is a nuance because obviously he had tremendous privileges in growing up in an upper middle class family where he went to a good public school and then on to college with all expenses paid.

My friend is a trust fund baby and was able to "buy" a $3 million home in the hills. She paid cash and doesn’t work although she has a legal degree. My friends whose parents are merely affluent like Altmann's parents don't have that kind of financial largesse and so although they were lucky enough to get a good education and minimal student debt, their life style is only what they can earn.

Altmann is a hustler and he had to hustle to get where he is. Flagg is also a bit of a hustler but I am not sure that Flagg would have gotten to where he is without having the tremendous wealth that enabled him to start selling high end real estate when he was 19. I am not sure what Bobby's (Flagg's husband) background was in terms of wealth but clearly not as privileged as Flagg because most people aren't. 

 

Edited October 3, 2021 by amarante

[dleighg]

18 minutes ago, amarante said:

I am not sure what Bobby's (Flagg's husband) background was in terms of wealth but clearly not as privileged as Flagg because most people aren't. 

In the most recent episode, Bobby explicitly said to Josh "I didn't grow up like you." It sounded like he was decidedly middle-class. And I couldn't help but wonder, was the purchase of the Palm Springs house coming from "his" money, or "their" (Josh's) money. With married couples it's usually always "ours" but Josh kept saying "I'm purchasing this house." Maybe he's doing really well in real estate as well. 

[Stan39]

1 hour ago, amarante said:

Altman's father practiced medicine in Boston and also taught there. It is definitely a privileged background and if the Altmann brothers remained in Boston, I am sure they would have had clients from their parents friends - but that is upper middle class and not really wealthy.

They both were extremely driven and obviously very smart. When they moved to Los Angeles, they probably had some form of subsidy so they didn't have to worry about living in their car. But their parents weren't setting them up with an affluent lifestyle. In the early seasons, Altmann had a relatively modest home.

I know both kinds of kids - real trust fund babies like Flagg and those kids who grew up in an affluent home where the parents earned a good salary. I realize Altmann might seem privileged to someone grew up in a working class home but Altmann did not have anything "handed" to him. I realize it is a nuance because obviously he had tremendous privileges in growing up in an upper middle class family where he went to a good public school and then on to college with all expenses paid.

My friend is a trust fund baby and was able to "buy" a $3 million home in the hills. My friends whose parents are merely affluent like Altmann's parents don't have that kind of financial largesse and so although they were lucky enough to get a good education and minimal student debt, their life style is only what they can earn.

Altmann is a hustler and he had to hustle to get where he is. Flagg is also a bit of a hustler but I am not sure that Flagg would have gotten to where he is without having the tremendous wealth that enabled him to start selling high end real estate when he was 19. I am not sure what Bobby's (Flagg's husband) background was in terms of wealth but clearly not as privileged as Flagg because most people aren't. 

 

You could be right. I’m not suggesting that Josh and his brother were given a lot of money, necessarily, but there are other types of privilege. Mauricio could have picked up Josh and his brother with no experience and just realized they had hustle. In business, your network is often more valuable than your skills or net worth, and in real estate if you have a lot of connections to people buying and selling houses then obviously you have a leg up on other applicants. But I don’t know if Josh and his brother had any network prior to starting. I’m just naturally suspicious of everyone on reality TV lol. 

[Stan39]

1 hour ago, dleighg said:

In the most recent episode, Bobby explicitly said to Josh "I didn't grow up like you." It sounded like he was decidedly middle-class. And I couldn't help but wonder, was the purchase of the Palm Springs house coming from "his" money, or "their" (Josh's) money. With married couples it's usually always "ours" but Josh kept saying "I'm purchasing this house." Maybe he's doing really well in real estate as well. 

As above, “I didn’t grow up like you” has a lot of meanings. Josh’s family was exorbitantly wealthy and connected in LA, so Bobby’s parents could still have been rich but not “Flagg rich.”

I saw the same things you did in that conversation. Couples often have pacts to discuss major purchases, regardless of whether they could easily afford them. Bobby could be doing well enough to just buy it outright, but still want to discuss the house with Josh. We’ve been around Josh to know his style, but I think he could have handled the situation better. He could have better explained that he’s only offering his opinion and trying to support Bobby to make the best decision, but it did come across as “I know more than you and we can’t buy this house unless there’s value to it.”  I don’t exactly know their finances, but it wasn’t too long ago that people bought their houses purely because they wanted to live there and didn’t consider them investments. It’s not completely unreasonable for Bobby to want to buy a house purely to vacation there and not care about the value (assuming they can afford it). People didn’t use to look at their houses, cars, boats as ways to earn more money but rather achievements as you made money. 

[dleighg]

5 minutes ago, Stan39 said:

it wasn’t too long ago that people bought their houses purely because they wanted to live there and didn’t consider them investments. It’s not completely unreasonable for Bobby to want to buy a house purely to vacation there and not care about the value (assuming they can afford it). People didn’t use to look at their houses, cars, boats as ways to earn more money but rather achievements as you made money. 

exactly. You think about it as "will I get $X enjoyment out of this? Can I afford it?" I mean, buying a second house is much like paying for yearly fancy vacations, which you obviously don't make money on.

[amarante]

The issue of class and privilege and economic privilege is obviously one that literally whole books have been written about.

Almost all people in the USA have traditionally identified themselves as middle class - which is a whole gamut of salary and wealth. And then actual jobs also play a part in delineating class. There are some "blue collar" workers - especially those who work in traditionally heavily unionize industries like auto that make salaries (especially when benefits and retirement are figured in) that make much more than people who people would identify clearly as being solid white collar middle class people. And there are PHD's who are definitely upper class in terms of learning who make paltry salaries and hobble together scanty livings as adjunct lecturers at community colleges.

Altmann and his brother have tremendous privilege just because they are white males and they were raised in an affluent home in which they would have received every kind of special help they needed. And yet, even given all that, they weren't privileged intellectually as both of them went to fairly mediocre easy to get into colleges and would probably not have been able to get into either med school or a first rate law school.

And they would have tremendous advantages in terms of being hired by alpha male bosses. Study after study has shown that people tend to hire people like themselves with whom they can identify. I am not sure if Mauricio hired Altmann at the beginning but the point is that any hustling white male is going to have an advantage over a woman or a person of color for many jobs just because there is bias even if it is unconscious. Hell I hired one secretary on the spot because she was from Brooklyn and had the Brooklyn accent which reminded me of my roots - extra points because she was a Parochial school graduate and I knew that she would have impeccable spelling and grammar 😂 FWIW I am not Italian working class nor - I am the proverbial nice Jewish girl from New York City but she was still within the tribe that made me feel comfortable. 

And both of them were able to start out in professions that don't pay well in the beginning. Altman's brother started out in a talent agency and those jobs are notoriously low paid. There have been exposes revealing that the wage scale is so low that most of the kids hired need to have parents subsidizing them because it would be impossible for anyone to live on the salaries. The same is true of other prestige type of jobs - magazines (Vogue especially); arts are now pretty much only feasible for kids who come from at least upper middle class families. And that isn't even factoring in nepotism because I don't think that was a factor with the Altman's.

When I wrote that I wasn't clear about Bobby's parents, I meant that it wasn't clear whether his parents were just middle class or whether they were truly blue collar or working class. I lean towards being middle class because a home in Palm Springs would be a feasible retirement option for the middle class - especially a decade ago before Palm Springs exploded in terms of pricing. 

I also thought Flagg was reflecting his emotional obtuseness by not understanding why Bobby felt buying that home was emotionally important. I didn't even understand why Flagg thought the pricing and value was of any real significance. He probably "wastes" significant amounts of money just enjoying the benefits of his incredible wealth. Realistically, $3 million to Flagg would be analogous to a middle class person pondering $10,000 to take a dream vacation.

 

Edited October 2, 2021 by amarante

[Medicine Crow]

Considering all the "magic potions" Suzanne pedaled, they don't seem to have helped her much!!  Just sayin'!!!  I know many women in her age range than look much better than she appeared in the show.  I noticed the camera "kept its distance"!!

[Surrealist]

I love the discussion in this thread more than the show right now.

A second home in Palm Springs would be lovely. Years ago, I lived in Las Vegas for a while. I know many dislike being in the desert, but I enjoyed living in it.

[Rosebud1970]

4 hours ago, Medicine Crow said:

Considering all the "magic potions" Suzanne pedaled, they don't seem to have helped her much!!  Just sayin'!!!  I know many women in her age range than look much better than she appeared in the show.  I noticed the camera "kept its distance"!!

I have to say, Suzanne Somers looked really not good. She’s somewhat older than I am and she looks 10 years older than me. And I’ve never had any work done. Not that I don’t want to, I just haven’t gotten around to it. I’m also not famous.

[MsTree]

Agree age has finally caught up to her. And for all the "magic potions" available to her/us, unfortunately, we just can't stop gravity and the aging process.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I think Flagg always thinks resale, even if Flagg or Bobby don't intend to ever sell.    You never know what will happen, and it's always good to get a place that will sell if you ever decide to do that.  Or if you decide you only want to be there part of the time, and want to rent out, you have to consider that possibility too.    Picking the location, with the right features might take a while, even in Palm Springs.     There are some spectacular properties there, but some of the nicest areas don't have a lot of inventory.       I'm hoping they show a lot of the house shopping in Palm Springs, even though I'm sure they bought a place before filming the 'house hunting'.  

[Starlight925]

I don't get the Palm Springs love.  I've been there twice, both on "fabulous vacations" (that others planned).  I just don't get it.  The "best" restaurants were only ok; the "best" spas were also, only ok.  

It's almost 2 hours away from L.A., with nothing but flat desert and millions of windmills to look at.

Plus, it's hot and so so so dry.   I'm wondering if the dryness has contributed to Suzanne Somers looking so much older.

I live in a very humid area, which can be a pain, but I lived in a very hot & dry city for almost a year, and I swear, everyone there looked 10 years older than everyone here.  They also had these raspy voices from years of breathing in the dry heat.  In Las Vegas, residents call it "Vegas Throat".  Lol, while it sounds like porn, it's not meant to.  It's this super dry feeling you get where your skin always feels like a parched piece of paper.  I think that's happened to Suzanne Somers, and no amount of potions can bring that luster back.

Edited October 3, 2021 by Starlight925

[amarante]

37 minutes ago, Starlight925 said:

I don't get the Palm Springs love.  I've been there twice, both on "fabulous vacations" (that others planned).  I just don't get it.  The "best" restaurants were only ok; the "best" spas were also, only ok.  

It's almost 2 hours away from L.A., with nothing but flat desert and millions of windmills to look at.

Plus, it's hot and so so so dry.   I'm wondering if the dryness has contributed to Suzanne Somers looking so much older.

I live in a very humid area, which can be a pain, but I lived in a very hot & dry city for almost a year, and I swear, everyone there looked 10 years older than everyone here.  They also had these raspy voices from years of breathing in the dry heat.  In Las Vegas, residents call it "Vegas Throat".  Lol, while it sounds like porn, it's not meant to.  It's this super dry feeling you get where your skin always feels like a parched piece of paper.  I think that's happened to Suzanne Somers, and no amount of potions can bring that luster back.

I live in Los Angeles so this is coming from a native point of view. I don't know if I would travel there as a super destination if I had to fly. People do fly in for the major gay events but that is different than people owning a second home to use on a frequent basis.

However, Palm Springs is about 1 1/2 drive from Los Angeles which means that it is extremely convenient to go there for a weekend so it makes the perfect weekend home. It is the difference between owning a home on the Jersey Shore or the Catskills which are easy drives from NYC versus having to fly somewhere.

I never owned a home in Palm Springs but I went there on a fairly regular basis for the weekend. Sometimes I would just leave very early on Saturday morning and beat any kind of Friday traffic but still be there in time for breakfast and a morning walk in the mountains. The climate is absolutely divine in the winter which is when most people actually go there just as most people don't go to the Jersey Shore or the Hamptons in the winter. 

I am not sure what your standards are for restaurants because unless you dine exclusively in Michelin four or five star places, there are restaurants that are equivalent or better than most restaurants people regularly dine at

[Starlight925]

42 minutes ago, amarante said:

It is the difference between owning a home on the Jersey Shore or the Catskills which are easy drives from NYC versus having to fly somewhere.

Thanks for your perspective!  I can see how it's a relatively easy getaway from L.A., as it's less than 2 hours.  I guess the difference between the Jersey Shore/Catskills is that with one, you get beach, the other, you get mountains.  (I've been to all).  With Palm Springs, it's flat, dry, hot desert.  But I can see why people would enjoy the getaway.

FWIW, I've been to both NY and LA dozens and dozens of times.  Maybe 100 altogether.  LA hands down for me.

Re:  Suzanne Somers.  I do believe the dry heat has contributed to her aging, but this show is about real estate, lol.  I found her house to be so chopped up, yet so much of the land unlivable.  What was the name of that gondola thing Josh had to use to go up?  Or those steep, unsteady stone stairs?  Is there no way to just drive up and walk in?  

Even Flagg was confused by that house.

I wonder where she & Alan want to move.  I do believe they have a wonderful marriage, which comes across in this episode.

Edited October 3, 2021 by Starlight925

[amarante]

38 minutes ago, Starlight925 said:

Thanks for your perspective!  I can see how it's a relatively easy getaway from L.A., as it's less than 2 hours.  I guess the difference between the Jersey Shore/Catskills is that with one, you get beach, the other, you get mountains.  (I've been to all).  With Palm Springs, it's flat, dry, hot desert.  But I can see why people would enjoy the getaway.

 

Not to beat a dead horse, but no one would actually go to Palm Springs in the summer. People go there in the winter when the weather is ideal.

At night sometimes it would get cold enough so that the morning dew would get crunchy but generally it was warm enough to even swim in a pool if one wanted to. And the desert landscape is beautiful in its own ways - especially in the winter when it's the perfect weather for hiking. I did a memorable horseback ride into the actual site of the "springs" which give Palm Springs it's name.

[dleighg]

37 minutes ago, amarante said:

Not to beat a dead horse, but no one would actually go to Palm Springs in the summer.

but didn't Bobby say that they wanted a place for his parents to live in year-round (before they died)? So clearly people live there in the summer (if not "go there"). So it must be more lively in the summer than the shore town I visit in southern NJ is in the winter! (Most of the restaurants simply shut down for 8 months or so)

[amarante]

2 hours ago, dleighg said:

but didn't Bobby say that they wanted a place for his parents to live in year-round (before they died)? So clearly people live there in the summer (if not "go there"). So it must be more lively in the summer than the shore town I visit in southern NJ is in the winter! (Most of the restaurants simply shut down for 8 months or so)

There are people who live in Arizona or other climates that are intolerable in the summer. 

Obviously there are some people who live there year round but they generally avoid the day time when possible so scurry out in the early morning to run errands.  But affluent people don’t go to Palms Springs in the summer because anything outdoors is impossible.

Even middle class people try to get out of desert areas in the summer. My parents retired to a middle class development in Laguna Hills and there would be snowbirds from cold climates in the winter and sun birds who lived in the hot desert who would come there for the summer months. My parents being rational opted for that location because the climate was great all year.

Only people seeking a super cheap vacation would go there in the summer. 

 

Edited October 3, 2021 by amarante

[Starlight925]

Tracy's sister is something else.  You can tell they have a strained relationship.  She was nice enough when she was directly on camera, but a very different, more difficult persona emerged when she was on Tracy's phone via speaker.  It's almost like she forgot she was being filmed, and her true self came out.

I bet they've had a contentious relationship for years.   

Edited October 3, 2021 by Starlight925

[Medicine Crow]

My sister & her husband had a house (with pool & hot tub) & then a condo close to a pool, for over thirty years.  They went there to avoid the cold Calgary winters.  I visited many times & didn't enjoy it at all.  Too hot in the day to leave your car in the sun, & if you did, you had gloves to protect your hands from getting burnt on the steering wheel ... LOL.  I've never really liked "the heat", particularly the humid "eastern heat", so I'd never go there again.  Also, my sister died & my brother-in-law doesn't want to go without her because the couples they socialized with don't want to include him, even for golf with the guys.  Strange???

Edited to add:  I thought the restaurants we went to were very good.  One in particular was my favourite.  It was Mexican food & it was in a mall beside a skating rink.  I had never had Mexican before & everything was delicious (from a buffet) or off the menu.

Edited October 3, 2021 by Medicine Crow
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