Little House On The Prairie - General Discussion

[jird]

On 12/26/2020 at 11:31 AM, jason88cubs said:

If I watch it all week I might turn into Charles ingalls

Keep an eye out for sudden urges to take off your shirt, shave your chest, tell someone off, or laugh heartily in public!

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, jird said:

Keep an eye out for sudden urges to take off your shirt, shave your chest, tell someone off, or laugh heartily in public!

And take extra precautions with your ribs! 

[bunnyblue]

4 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

However, I wish they concentrated on Mr. Edwards and Alicia without Laura inserted into their story. It would be nice to see other characters once in a while without an Ingalls horning in.

I agree. It annoyed me that once Laura joined them in the cabin it became all about Laura and how everyone was soooo worried about her. Poor Alicia took a back seat. And then when they realized Laura had poison ivy and not "the fever" and they all broke out into relived laughter, I wondered why there wasn't a similar joyous reaction when they realized Alicia had recovered. Yeah, yeah, Laura was the child star of the show but it was annoyingly obvious how they shoehorned her in to what should have been a story about Mr. Edwards and his daughter. 

[Zella]

22 minutes ago, bunnyblue said:

I agree. It annoyed me that once Laura joined them in the cabin it became all about Laura and how everyone was soooo worried about her. Poor Alicia took a back seat. And then when they realized Laura had poison ivy and not "the fever" and they all broke out into relived laughter, I wondered why there wasn't a similar joyous reaction when they realized Alicia had recovered. Yeah, yeah, Laura was the child star of the show but it was annoyingly obvious how they shoehorned her in to what should have been a story about Mr. Edwards and his daughter. 

Laura was really insufferable in that episode just in general. 

[jason88cubs]

"Second Chance" was on tv today, Sam Terhune came to town,Hester Sue's ex, and he comes into town , sees Charles and says "You must be Charles Ingalls" and Charles goes "yep thats me"

 

BUT

 

what should have happened was Charles should have been shirtless, Sam says "You must be Charles Ingalls" Chalres says "What gave you that idea?" and Sam says "i was told you'd be the only person shirtless"

Edited December 29, 2020 by jason88cubs

[jason88cubs]

17 minutes ago, jason88cubs said:

"Second Chance" was on tv today, Sam Terhune came to town,Hester Sue's ex, and he comes into town , sees Charles and says "You must be Charles Ingalls" and Charles goes "yep thats me"

 

BUT

 

what should have happened was Charles should have been shirtless, Sam says "You must be Charles Ingalls" Chalres says "What gave you that idea?" and Sam says "i was told you'd be the only person shirtless"

 

[CountryGirl]

On 12/27/2020 at 10:20 PM, Superclam said:

I've never seen the entire "Remember Me" before. That puppy scene was harrowing!! 

 

I can still barely bring myself to watch that part. Although it’s the only episode where Mary wears braids. 

[alexa]

I enjoyed the PBS special for the most part.  One of the commentators was a little negative at times.  I felt like she was kind of insulting about how if Pa had stayed in Wisconsin they could have saved themselves a lot of trouble.  How does she know that?  Also, that is their story...their journey, and why there were so many stories to tell.  And to be fair they had decent lives in DeSmet and ended up staying there.  
 

I also feel weird about the racist concerns.  Not because people have them, but because the stories depicted a part of history and how those situations were often described.  I wish if they were going to go there they would have also mentioned the many times Pa befriended or at least treated others respectfully.  It wasn’t all bad.  I just don’t know that you can ignore the past completely, and I don’t think it speaks against her books to address how things were perceived at the time.

I also wasn’t sure why the big story was Rose’s editing. It isn’t like Laura didn’t write any of it, or they were keeping a terrible secret. I guess I didn’t know that was such a thing that people found out that Rose helped.

[debraran]

8 hours ago, alexa said:

I enjoyed the PBS special for the most part.  One of the commentators was a little negative at times.  I felt like she was kind of insulting about how if Pa had stayed in Wisconsin they could have saved themselves a lot of trouble.  How does she know that?  Also, that is their story...their journey, and why there were so many stories to tell.  And to be fair they had decent lives in DeSmet and ended up staying there.  
 

I also feel weird about the racist concerns.  Not because people have them, but because the stories depicted a part of history and how those situations were often described.  I wish if they were going to go there they would have also mentioned the many times Pa befriended or at least treated others respectfully.  It wasn’t all bad.  I just don’t know that you can ignore the past completely, and I don’t think it speaks against her books to address how things were perceived at the time.

I also wasn’t sure why the big story was Rose’s editing. It isn’t like Laura didn’t write any of it, or they were keeping a terrible secret. I guess I didn’t know that was such a thing that people found out that Rose helped.

I didn't see special but yes, the books were written about a time when people were racist and thought taking land from the Indians was okay since they were different from them. I believe the only thoughts on racism was mainly because it was children reading it and they might be confused, not understanding why a beloved character is saying that. The show is different, Michael goes out of his way to show the family different than the times, they just love Hester Sue, the black runaway, they wish they could adopt, he can go to school in Walnut Grove, they will see the black doctor when others wont, the Native American Indian saves them in the storm, the Jewish man was wise, not the devil.  I LOVE it even if not historical and it gave a  very good message. I wouldn't want to read those parts out loud in the books if someone who was a minority was in the room. That happened with a Native American girl and it caused teasing and distress. I would talk about it if all the children were white too. You don't need a lot of words to get the point across.

If you have good parents that will say how wrong those statements were and why they felt that way, it's fine but most children's books aren't written that way, it's books for teens up that have more adult content.

I felt my children reacted a lot like this woman did in this article and like her mom, my daughter is now an English professor. I did what this person did as a kid, I blew by it and erased it from memory. My kids are mixed race and they didn't blow by it. They felt it more and I honor that feeling. They liked the show and some of the books but having a disclaimer isn't an awful thing for a young child

https://www.vox.com/culture/2018/6/26/17502346/laura-ingalls-wilder-award-little-house-books-racism

Edited December 30, 2020 by debraran

[alexa]

29 minutes ago, debraran said:

I didn't see special but yes, the books were written about a time when people were racist and thought taking land from the Indians was okay since they were different from them. I believe the only thoughts on racism was mainly because it was children reading it and they might be confused, not understanding why a beloved character is saying that. The show is different, Michael goes out of his way to show the family different than the times, they just love Hester Sue, the black runaway, they wish they could adopt, he can go to school in Walnut Grove, they will see the black doctor when others wont, the Native American Indian saves them in the storm, the Jewish man was wise, not the devil.  I LOVE it even if not historical and it gave a  very good message. I wouldn't want to read those parts out loud in the books if someone who was a minority was in the room. That happened with a Native American girl and it caused teasing and distress. I would talk about it if all the children were white too. You don't need a lot of words to get the point across.

If you have good parents that will say how wrong those statements were and why they felt that way, it's fine but most children's books aren't written that way, it's books for teens up that have more adult content.

I felt my children reacted a lot like this woman did in this article and like her mom, my daughter is now an English professor. I did what this person did as a kid, I blew by it and erased it from memory. My kids are mixed race and they didn't blow by it. They felt it more and I honor that feeling. They liked the show and some of the books but having a disclaimer isn't an awful thing for a young child

https://www.vox.com/culture/2018/6/26/17502346/laura-ingalls-wilder-award-little-house-books-racism

I agree...a disclaimer of sorts definitely makes sense.

[Snow Apple]

I saw the PBS show and while I didn't learn anything new, I like it anyway. It was nice seeing visuals to go along with the discussions.

A poster above mentioned the negative woman and she turned me off. Glad I wasn't the only one to notice. The others either had a balance, or gave reasons why/how issues (like the racism) affected them. 

[alexa]

1 hour ago, Snow Apple said:

I saw the PBS show and while I didn't learn anything new, I like it anyway. It was nice seeing visuals to go along with the discussions.

A poster above mentioned the negative woman and she turned me off. Glad I wasn't the only one to notice. The others either had a balance, or gave reasons why/how issues (like the racism) affected them. 

I agree, I found it interesting, and I was the one mentioning the negative lady.  It bugged me too because she kept reminding me of someone and I can't figure out who.  The way she talked, looked, threw in the criticisms, everything.  lol.  I think she just had a skewed vision of everything LIW, which was odd given it is just a person's experience and life (not referring to the racism, but other things she mentioned about Laura, Pa, etc).  It isn't up to us to change her life and what they did--and again, her life as it was is part of the reason there are those stories today.  And the fact that she was insulting about how he never seemed to make it, etc--well, I think that was very common in pioneer life.  It was one challenge after another.  It isn't like there were tons of rich people in those parts.  

[CountryGirl]

I haven’t seen the PBS show yet, but ITA with the comments re Laura and racism being a part of her books. Because that was part of her WORLD. It did bug me that they renamed that literary award after all these years because of the racism in her books. Which again, was there all along. While I, too, cringed as an adult and even a teen, reading Ma’s view of Native Americans or Pa in blackface, among other examples, this was what was happening in the world. And Laura (or Laura and Rose) told it how it was. I don’t applaud that racism happened obviously but I can appreciate that Laura et al could have attempted to whitewash these instances or omitted them entirely. For me, in these more turbulent than ever times, their inclusion presents an opportunity for education and real dialogue about racism, privilege, and micro aggressions. Particularly children and teens for whom these conversations are so very critical. 

[Zella]

I've recently been reading the Little House books for the first time as a thirty-something-year old. The books undoubtedly have their unpalatable moments by modern standards, but overall, I've enjoyed them and I feel like they often quietly critique the racist assumptions that Caroline especially has. When she complains about not wanting to be around Indians, Laura asks her, "Why did we move to Indian Territory?" Big Jerry is also used to undercut her dismissive attitude toward "halfbreeds." And I am perplexed that people on the internet at large act like it is only a recent realization that Pa was in Indian Territory illegally. I thought that was subtly made clear at the end of the Little House on the Prairie book when he says something along the lines of, I wouldn't have moved here if I'd thought the government wasn't going to do something--meaning he made incorrect assumptions and acted on them. 

As for Pa's failures, I do spend a lot of time Monday morning quarterbacking him--him just straight up trading his livestock for a homestead in Minnesota without asking any questions flabbergasted me--but I think his struggles are very emblematic of why many people kept moving West. They didn't have great agricultural land, so they were always moving onward trying to find better, without realizing that a lot of the land wasn't great for farming, so it just led to a vicious cycle. He undoubtedly had some wanderlust mixed in there and reminds me of my own dad in that way, but I'm not sure the crop failures are indicative of anything other than poor luck that afflicted many other settlers. 

I don't think the books should be taught without context and conversations about how and why attitudes change throughout history, but I also don't think the things that are problematic about them mean they just shouldn't be taught. 

Personally, my inner former teacher thinks it would be a lot of fun to teach them as a unit alongside Louise Erdrich's Birchbark House series. 

[BigBingerBro]

3 hours ago, Zella said:

Louise Erdrich's Birchbark House

I never heard of this.  Added it to my list.  Thank you!

[Zella]

25 minutes ago, BigBingerBro said:

I never heard of this.  Added it to my list.  Thank you!

You're welcome! I hope you enjoy it. I love Louise Erdrich's work! 

[jason88cubs]

Did the show have anything about spousal abuse?

 

I know there was the child abuse episode "Child of Pain" but was there any episodes of a husband beating his wife? I cant recall any and I think that's the one topic they never touched if I'm not mistaken

[Mr. Sparkle]

Some lousy husbands, certainly, but I'm not recalling any domestic violence off the top of my head. 

[CountryGirl]

I don’t think they ever did touch on spousal abuse. Missed opportunity for Little Rehab on the Prairie. Courtesy of Pa Messiah of course. 

[Mr. Sparkle]

What about the one where Charles is buying horses from some rich guy, so he stays at the rich guy's house, and the rich guy is a drunk and his family hates him? That's some big-time Charles is the greatest man ever. 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Superclam

[jason88cubs]

31 minutes ago, Superclam said:

What about the one where Charles is buying horses from some rich guy, so he stays at the rich guy's house, and the rich guy is a drunk and his family hates him? That's some big-time Charles is the greatest man ever. 

didnt the wife act like she was gonna leave her husband for Charles?

[debraran]

2 minutes ago, jason88cubs said:

didnt the wife act like she was gonna leave her husband for Charles?

Much less subtle than Handyman but no one complains about the flirting Charles did .  The hand thing was a bit much. Glad savior Charles fixed another family though  🙂

[Mr. Sparkle]

46 minutes ago, jason88cubs said:

didnt the wife act like she was gonna leave her husband for Charles?

She would have in a second! Luckily our boy is much too noble for that. 

[CountryGirl]

Isn’t that the one where Kyle Richards is playing someone else (i.e. not Alicia)?

Talking about Pa and Ma and their possible flirtations with the Widow Thurman and Buck Rogers, ahem, Chris, reminded me of how much I wanted to smack PrissPot Mary for being a huge hypocrite. She conveniently forgot about her anti-cheating stance when she was swanning around with Ass Cass at the fair. 

[debraran]

6 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

Isn’t that the one where Kyle Richards is playing someone else (i.e. not Alicia)?

Talking about Pa and Ma and their possible flirtations with the Widow Thurman and Buck Rogers, ahem, Chris, reminded me of how much I wanted to smack PrissPot Mary for being a huge hypocrite. She conveniently forgot about her anti-cheating stance when she was swanning around with Ass Cass at the fair. 

Her mom couldn't be nice to a handyman but her dad could visit clandestinely in part, a beautiful widow and have Mary spying etc. No one ever learns lessons on this show, they just repeat behavior.  If she ever said half of what she said to her mom to him.....she might have found herself out in the sod house. lol  I think Mary broke all those dishes washing them on purpose. 😉

 

[jason88cubs]

I thought "Someone Please Love Me" was A REALLY GOOD episode

[Mr. Sparkle]

Ok, in honor of the season and this special year, I'm starting to watch "The Godsister" right now. Let's see how far in I can get. An hour and a half with commercials. 

[Mr. Sparkle]

I've already lost interest, but there is so much gauze on the lens. 

And giant fruit. I didn't even start drinking yet. 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Superclam
The part about the giant fruit.

[debraran]

19 minutes ago, Superclam said:

Ok, in honor of the season and this special year, I'm starting to watch "The Godsister" right now. Let's see how far in I can get. An hour and a half with commercials. 

Just remember twins did not write that dribble or direct it.

[jason88cubs]

7 minutes ago, debraran said:

Just remember twins did not write that dribble or direct it.

It would be cool if we all did a LHOP watch along. Like go to discord or something and do a chat

[Mr. Sparkle]

6 minutes ago, debraran said:

Just remember twins did not write that dribble or direct it.

I forgot they were twins, and that's why there were two of them! With all due respect, they are not great actresses, bad material not withstanding. 

Actually, the Charles story isn't that bad. It's the weird Carrie dream stuff. 

[Mr. Sparkle]

Holy sh*t, the old man who's been 3 other characters is Saint Peter in this one! 

[Mr. Sparkle]

After all that build-up, it really wasn't that bad an episode. I hadn't seen it since about 1985; I guess I remembered it different. I'm pretty sure the episodes were cut when they showed them back then, and this was a long episode. I don't remember any of the Charles & Garvey build the telephone lines (featuring Dolph Sweet!) and I wonder if most of it was cut out when I first saw it. 

The Carrie fantasy stuff was pretty bad, but only part of the episode. 

1 hour ago, jason88cubs said:

It would be cool if we all did a LHOP watch along. Like go to discord or something and do a chat

I did as much of a live chat as I could. We could do one here if we all set a time. 

[jason88cubs]

if you have an interest in doing a watch along please like this

[kav]

A few days ago I watched the end of the wild dog one, which was pretty scary.  Also random question, in the episode they leave to go to Wanoka (I know I spelled this wrong), in the church, there is a man sitting near the back who looked like the actor who lived in the boarding house in the last season?  

[jason88cubs]

I never could have made it through the winter time back then

 

Stuck inside with the whole family in a little cabin. There would have been nothing to do beside splaying checkers or chess

Edited January 4, 2021 by jason88cubs

[kav]

On Saturday morning I watched the fire episode.  I had seen part 2 of it a bunch of times, but it had been a while since I saw the first part,  I did not remember the parts with the dead bodies.

[Zella]

I watched the Inheritance episode a few hours ago and was really annoyed that the town bailed Charles out. I know the show sets it up like poor pitiful Charles got roped into spending like an idiot because of the town, but he's still the dumbass who made the promises. 

[debraran]

8 hours ago, jason88cubs said:

I never could have made it through the winter time back then

 

Stuck inside with the whole family in a little cabin. There would have been nothing to do beside splaying checkers or chess

I thought of that younger and then after I had kids, thought of going to the bathroom in bad weather or having kids vomiting or having diarreah without an indoor potty. How did they clean diapers when it wasn't "wash day?" They showed Laura once take a dirty diaper from Almonzo after a bad joke about it not "smelling like a Rose" and she took it outside. Hopefully didn't put it in creek but did they discard waste and store dirty diaper in a bucket? Things I just don't want to think about. I know I read harsh soaps back then gave kids diaper rashes, maybe an incentive to to to outhouse early. They experimented with different things but no fancy "Ivory" or other brands available.

In the books, they did have magazines come sometimes and they would read them slowly to have them last. Too bad libraries didn't donate books to small towns so the kids had novels to read besides what they had in school. Occasionally you'd see them have a real book, even Charles but not often.

Edited January 4, 2021 by debraran

[Katy M]

2 hours ago, debraran said:

thought of that younger and then after I had kids, thought of going to the bathroom in bad weather or having kids vomiting or having diarreah without an indoor potty. How did they clean diapers when it wasn't "wash day?"

I think back then when you had a baby, every day was "wash day."  

[alexa]

5 hours ago, Zella said:

I watched the Inheritance episode a few hours ago and was really annoyed that the town bailed Charles out. I know the show sets it up like poor pitiful Charles got roped into spending like an idiot because of the town, but he's still the dumbass who made the promises. 

I hate that episode.  I kind of disagree...he tried to tell everyone he didn’t have the money, and I never understood why the Olesons stuff especially was an issue, as Nels basically pushed him into it, and he should have been able to return items.  Lastly, the church organ was for everyone to enjoy, and someone should have offered to help versus having Charles be solely responsible.  It was the Reverend who asked for it.  No one bothered to try to help or think of a way to cover the items they all wanted so bad.  

[debraran]

24 minutes ago, alexa said:

I hate that episode.  I kind of disagree...he tried to tell everyone he didn’t have the money, and I never understood why the Olesons stuff especially was an issue, as Nels basically pushed him into it, and he should have been able to return items.  Lastly, the church organ was for everyone to enjoy, and someone should have offered to help versus having Charles be solely responsible.  It was the Reverend who asked for it.  No one bothered to try to help or think of a way to cover the items they all wanted so bad.  

The organ was very expensive and a luxury.  Nels could have given them his piano ( after hearing Nellie play) 😊I cant see anyone paying for that beck them. In reality I read 800 average price 

[Zella]

3 hours ago, alexa said:

I hate that episode.  I kind of disagree...he tried to tell everyone he didn’t have the money, and I never understood why the Olesons stuff especially was an issue, as Nels basically pushed him into it, and he should have been able to return items.  Lastly, the church organ was for everyone to enjoy, and someone should have offered to help versus having Charles be solely responsible.  It was the Reverend who asked for it.  No one bothered to try to help or think of a way to cover the items they all wanted so bad.  

I'm just getting really tired of Pa's sanctimonious martyr complex. In which he is never wrong. Jonathan's line at the end--you didn't change, but we did--really set me off. Because Pa apparently is exempt from any personal responsibility despite him demanding it from other people. Laura also gets a lot of special pleading from the show, which I find equally as irritating. 

Edited January 4, 2021 by Zella

[Zella]

6 hours ago, debraran said:

I thought of that younger and then after I had kids, thought of going to the bathroom in bad weather or having kids vomiting or having diarreah without an indoor potty. How did they clean diapers when it wasn't "wash day?" They showed Laura once take a dirty diaper from Almonzo after a bad joke about it not "smelling like a Rose" and she took it outside. Hopefully didn't put it in creek but did they discard waste and store dirty diaper in a bucket? Things I just don't want to think about. I know I read harsh soaps back then gave kids diaper rashes, maybe an incentive to to to outhouse early. They experimented with different things but no fancy "Ivory" or other brands available.

In the books, they did have magazines come sometimes and they would read them slowly to have them last. Too bad libraries didn't donate books to small towns so the kids had novels to read besides what they had in school. Occasionally you'd see them have a real book, even Charles but not often.

Public libraries were in their infancy back then and also more likely to be back east, so I'm not sure that would really be a viable option. (Where I live, we didn't get public libraries until the 20th century, though it seems like some local schoolteachers had libraries before there was a public one. This is still early 1900s, though, that the teachers were doing their own library, and we were established in the mid 1800s. I work at one of those libraries now, and we still have some very elderly patrons who remember what it was like before there was a library. I don't think that is unusual for small towns west of the Mississippi.) Subscription libraries were a thing in the 1800s--in which you had to pay to be a member--but I'm not sure anyone in Walnut Grove besides the Olesons would have had the disposable income for it. (I assume the good doctor would have been interested, but I think his stockpile of food he had been paid with wouldn't count for a fee.)

I've been reading the books and am currently on The Long Winter. They received magazines from Reverend Alden via a church after they moved to Dakota Territory, so maybe the best bet for Walnut Grove would have been something similar--donations from a more well-to-do church in Minnesota. 

Edited January 4, 2021 by Zella

[VCRTracking]

I'm always torn about the "Child Had No Name" episode. Is it worth it re-watching Laura be a total bitch to Doc Baker for 45 minutes in order to get to the ending where she apologizes? 

Edited January 4, 2021 by VCRTracking

[Mr. Sparkle]

13 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

I'm always torn about the "Child Had No Name" episode. Is it worth it re-watching Laura be a total bitch to Doc Baker for 45 minutes in order to get to the ending where she apologizes? 

I'll usually skip it, but I'll skip most of the 9th season episodes. 

[jason88cubs]

In the "Inheritance" didnt Nels admit he was just trying to make a sale? And felt awful about it?

[jason88cubs]

Serious question, how did someone like miss Beadle bathe? Just curious. Because I dont recall seeing a barn at her area where she could be in privacy, or would they have a small little building they would go to?

 

I cant imagine tryint o sit there and take a bath outside in 15 degree weather. Good gosh

[debraran]

26 minutes ago, jason88cubs said:

Serious question, how did someone like miss Beadle bathe? Just curious. Because I dont recall seeing a barn at her area where she could be in privacy, or would they have a small little building they would go to?

 

I cant imagine tryint o sit there and take a bath outside in 15 degree weather. Good gosh

Not often, this article explains it simply and I'm sure it varied. The not ever brushing teeth though must have caused some issues for sure. In real life Charles would hang his dirty clothes up for the next day of dirty work which makes sense but "hold nose" I'm sure Charles being Charles hung his outside. ; )

People in today’s society often bathe once a day. However, in colonial America, people did not have indoor plumbing and running water, which are standard in the typical American household of today. To bathe, colonists had to pump water from a well into a large vessel and then heat it over the fire. After heating the water, it had to be transferred to a portable bathtub, often made of wood. Colonists stored their bathtubs elsewhere and brought them into the house at bath time to bathe by the hearth. Often, the entire family would take turns bathing in the same tub of water. The people made their own soap, or they used no soap at all.

Historians surmise that many colonists bathed only a few times in a year, although they probably washed their hands and faces more often. Bathing during the winter was very rare due to the extremely cold temperatures. A colonist’s social status did not seem to have a bearing on the frequency of bathing, as wealthy and poor people probably bathed about the same number of times in a year. Wealthy people had larger wardrobes, though, so they may have seemed cleaner and smelled more pleasant. Working-class people rarely changed their clothes, and most lower-income people usually had one outfit for workdays and one outfit for Sunday.

 

[VCRTracking]

4 hours ago, Superclam said:

I'll usually skip it, but I'll skip most of the 9th season episodes. 

I wonder because it was such a late season episode did the writers think they could fool viewers into thinking he might actually leave town? We're definitely meant to be like "What the hell Laura" and not take her side.