Season 8 Discussion

[BitterApple]

52 minutes ago, floridamom said:

If Whitney wanted the subject of bio/adoptive parents to be a personal private matter, she should NOT have had this event filmed. Accepting the cameras here invited all sorts of questions about what the heck went down those years ago. She now needs to address things and set the factual record straight.

They really screwed the pooch on this one. If it was something that Whitney did (i.e., drugs, boys, making false accusations) then that blows the Bateseses' "wholesome fairytale family" image right out of the water. If it was something her parents did that warranted DCFS intervention (neglect, abuse, addiction) then it makes the adults (i.e. Kelly) look horrible for using religious doctrine to scam Whitney into shouldering the blame. Either way, no one comes out smelling like a rose. It would've been best to omit it completely.

[lookeyloo]

I wonder if they realize their "fans" or at least people who snark about them have questions and thoughts like @BitterApple just indicated.

[RebeccatheWriter]

On 1/5/2019 at 3:31 PM, KnoxForPres said:

As an aside, we grew up with a few  families who had four kids and were actually wealthy but it was a known you get water at meals. Ever noticed these cats always have teas and sodas?  It’s not really a big deal at all but I mention it bc I always think of it. I know production likely pays or comped, but I still see parents going “sweet tea” knowing it’s not on their dime. 

1

There is an old episode of the Duggars' show where the Duggars meet up with the Bateses at a restaurant. Gil makes a big deal of the kids being allowed to order soft drinks if they want. It's clear that production was paying for the meal based on what was said afterward. Then there were the stories about Gil and Kelly going to restaurants for a steak and the kids fighting for the leftovers. I think that some of the adult children now remember those days of less and seem to be concentrating on having a better life now (Zach, Alyssa and to some extent Tori). It's not to say they do all the right things, but there is a drive there that I have seen in other people who grew up in large families and felt they had to sacrifice things in order to keep the peace or keep their parents happy. While Lawson still lives at home, he's shown that he is interested in having things that maybe he was denied when he was younger by buying so many boots, hats, clothes, etc. Even Erin exhibits this, but a bit differently than the others with her redecorating, as it was clear from the beginning that she was excited about having space of her own. 

 

17 hours ago, iluvobx said:

They live in the south and people drink sweet tea in the south.  Making tea is not expensive.  That is what we drank at lunch and dinner and milk for breakfast.

Not everyone. I can't stand the stuff and would rather drink anything else. I think @KnoxForPres is referring to their drinking habits when they are out and about. Before their show and during the news magazine broadcasts, the family would drink water when out at a restaurant. There were references to this during the Duggar episodes about renovating the house, as Gil said they drank water from the sink and it cost him nothing because of the well. As the show has progressed you see them more with bottled drinks at home and carbonated drinks at restaurants. 

It's a minor thing really, but evidence that Gil and Kelly are certainly enjoying the money from the show, as they now take many more vacations and trips, eat out more often, wear newer clothes, etc. 

The thing that has stuck out to me though is still the lack of toys over the years, especially for the girls. With my two daughters there are days when I would rather move than have to pick up all the dolls, doll clothes, race cars, balls, board games, costumes, Transformers, Legos, video games, etc. Other than their bikes, we don't really see the younger ones with lots of playthings. Jeb and Judson are shown with some things, but the youngest girls don't seem to get that same stuff. During their I Love You Day present fest most of the gifts are coffee mugs, clothes/shoes, clip on earrings, etc. While the children are older now, I can't really recall seeing them with toys that you would see in most family homes. I know the Duggar girls do carry dolls around and have doll houses, etc. Maybe the Bates girls do too and we just don't see it.  

[sATL]

19 hours ago, BitterApple said:

They really screwed the pooch on this one. If it was something that Whitney did (i.e., drugs, boys, making false accusations) then that blows the Bateseses' "wholesome fairytale family" image right out of the water. If it was something her parents did that warranted DCFS intervention (neglect, abuse, addiction) then it makes the adults (i.e. Kelly) look horrible for using religious doctrine to scam Whitney into shouldering the blame. Either way, no one comes out smelling like a rose. It would've been best to omit it completely.

In my mind I added unplanned pregnancy, along with parents asking her to leave their home, to the above possibilities  grocery list.

Edited January 8, 2019 by sATL

[Bessiesue]

 We did laugh at Evan's response about waiting for her to propose.  Which I thought was really cute.  I truly believe all of this ring nonsense is not Kelly Jo's, but UPTV itself as a way to one up TLC and Duggarville.  We only see 30 minutes, of their life each week.  We have no idea what goes on behind the camera lens, and in their actual life.  The 25th of May (I think) is the wedding date, so we will see what happens when the bride to be has actual time to plan.   

As much as I hate to defend Erin, and I am not really:

She has always appeared to be the "queen seeker" of the group.  The one everyone fawns upon, feels sorry for, envies, center of attention.  Everyone talks about how much fun they have going to her house, cooking with her, and I believe this is her baby obsession.  It is not that she has a newborn in her arms, but the way the newborn attention feels.  Due to the heparin shots, the family fawns on her.  She is a fragile delicate flower having to be so careful during pregnancy.  She hates pain, and talks ad nauseam about how she has to have the epidural, goes early to make sure she gets it, (not sure what happened with Everily).  Now she is the queen of three, and wants more.  She threw shade at poor Chad making sure we understood it is in his court now if more show up.  

I would love to know what Erin and Chad are doing with their UP money.  I am sure it is not near what TLC is paying the Duggars, but maybe pymt towards the delivery bills.  Or in exchange of a paycheck, UPTV pays the pregnancy and hospital bills.

Gill and Kelly Jo said they have 15 at home now.  Not really, Josie is married, Nathan works in Texas or MS, Lawson is in Nashville, and that leaves 11.  Judson and Jeb hit the nail on the head with their comment on how everyone is gone but the younger ones.

Good for Trace choosing a career as a Sheriff, and hope he still has his dream of working for Dolly or Shadow.  

Katie is in cosmetology school.

Jackson, Warren, and Isaiah are growing to fast along with Jeb and Jud.  I hope Addalee and Callie keep their spunk as well.  These seven could have their own show just about them, and their opinions.  I just hope the fact that money is now in the household they do not go into the darkside of being all about the money.  Gill and Kelly Jo does seem to keep a good grasp on keeping them at bay for now.  

The double twins:  Lawson and Nathan seriously need to take it back a notch or two.  Those two know the girls swoon, and they way the sit on the couch has my husband howling each episode.

As for Whitney, I really thought it was discussed on the Fellowship board on the Duggars that one or both parents were abusive, and that is how she was removed.  I could be wrong, and I love all of your theories.  I never thought about drugs and alcohol done by her to have her removed.  

Being an Alabama girl, gotta touch on the sweet tea talk/snark.  It is the wine of the south, and we drank growing up all day long, even in school tea was served.  We still love our tea, and I love mine with half tea/half lemonade.  My husband is sweet tea only.  

[sATL]

$29K for a ring? Was the store in a ritzy area of Nashville ? To carry that kind of bling in an area where incomes (and possibly tastes) don't allow one to take that off rock your hands, is a gutsy business move.

After that jewelry store visit , I though the dress shop was going to be Klienfields...Still great we got a project runway season 5 winner,  Leanne Marshall. And of course momma Kelli gotta give her input..

Gosh Whitney - could you be any more excited? She was constantly squealing. carry a power bank with you for your phone - esp when you go on a trip.

Edited January 11, 2019 by sATL

[Sew Sumi]

Leanne is one of my favorite PR designers of all-time.  I was thrilled when I found out Josie had chosen her. I was hoping for a cameo. 😞

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, sATL said:

$29K for a ring Was the store in a ritzy area of Nashville ? To carry that kind of bling in an area where incomes (and possibly tastes) don't allow one to take that off rock your hands, is a gutsy business move.

 

I have a feeling that was just for show. No jewelry store would have huge diamonds in display cases without security on site. The owner probably put it back in the safe once the film crew left. 

Josie looked annoyed during the sightseeing tour. I wonder if it was really anxiety over the dress like Kelly claimed or if Carlin's and Whitney's loudmouth behavior was getting on her nerves. 

Edited January 11, 2019 by BitterApple

[Bessiesue]

9 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Josie looked annoyed during the sightseeing tour. I wonder if it was really anxiety over the dress like Kelly claimed or if Carlin's and Whitney's loudmouth behavior was getting on her nerves. 

How many times have they been to NYC.  That maybe one reason why she appeared nonchalant during the tour, also I get the feeling she is not as close to Whit and Carlie as we are made to believe.  She appears to be closer to Katie, but who knows.  It might have been just weird editing.  That 29 thousand dollar ring was so uglyl.  The one Evan proposed with had a much larger diamond than the one she picked.  Speaking of Evan, he has really buffed up, and is losing someone of those 15 year old looks.  Still no word on how he plans to provide for her.

[Misslindsey]

I think Josie is fairly close with Whitney. It may have been last season or before, but there was an episode with the married couples (I cannot remember if the courting couples were in it) that was sort of dating game-ish. It was asked which family member(s) was that particular person closest to. Whitney answered Josie. I think she answered someone else as well, but Josie was in the mix. I think Alyssa said Josie as well.

[RebeccatheWriter]

46 minutes ago, Misslindsey said:

I think Josie is fairly close with Whitney. It may have been last season or before, but there was an episode with the married couples (I cannot remember if the courting couples were in it) that was sort of dating game-ish. It was asked which family member(s) was that particular person closest to. Whitney answered Josie. I think she answered someone else as well, but Josie was in the mix. I think Alyssa said Josie as well.

She appears to be very close to Whitney. There are pictures of Josie sitting on Whitney's lap (like silly teenage stuff) several years ago and she always sort of gravitates toward her. There have also been moments where Kelly is talking to all the sisters and Whitney about something. All the sisters sat together, with the exception of Josie, who was sitting right next to Whitney. I don't know that Josie and Carlin are all that close, but then again I can't imagine being close with Carlin given how loud and obnoxious she can be about EVERYTHING.

While Josie has a beautiful smile, she's not usually the hyper or excited one about things. Much like Alyssa, she seems to be quiet and more reserved. You never really see her with the jaw dropped, squealing, clapping hands demeanor that you would see out of Erin, Carlin, or even Katie. So I wouldn't really expect her to be bouncing and squealing with delight over everything like Carlin and Whitney were doing. 

Just my interpretation, I think she probably was concentrating on the reason for the trip (finding the dress) and making the appointment on time. Kelly isn't really known for her timeliness, so Josie might have been nervous about the time and making her appointment. I have a mother who is very lax about time so I know it drives me crazy when mom is calling the shots and I have something I need to do. Additionally, Kelly (probably inadvertently) puts a lot of pressure on her daughters about these dresses. She made a comment to Josie about whether or not it was worth it to travel to New York for this dress. She made a similar comment to Michaela when they traveled to Nashville to look at dresses. Yes, everyone hopes that they aren't making a trip for a good reason (UP was probably paying for the trip anyway). However, that can put a lot of pressure on a child or adult child of someone that is already having to make a boatload of decisions for the first time in their life. Through no fault of her own, Josie's been raised in a home where every decision is made for her (something that normal families start transitioning out of as the child nears adulthood. Her first big decision was a college program (though I have doubts that was fully her decision). Now she's making decisions about weddings, living after the wedding, etc. Maybe that's why Tori sort of froze up with her wedding planning block. 

To sum it up, Kelly Jo Bates can be a bit thoughtless with her quips that could really hurt some feelings if she is not careful. 

[BitterApple]

9 minutes ago, RebeccatheWriter said:

 

To sum it up, Kelly Jo Bates can be a bit thoughtless with her quips that could really hurt some feelings if she is not careful. 

I don't understand why Kelly was making the New York trip out to be life or death when a) UP was paying for the whole thing and b) it's just a dress. The worst that could happen was Josie didn't like it and they look elsewhere. They got a free vacation so it wouldn't have been a waste of time either way. 

[sATL]

39 minutes ago, RebeccatheWriter said:

She appears to be very close to Whitney. There are pictures of Josie sitting on Whitney's lap (like silly teenage stuff) several years ago and she always sort of gravitates toward her. There have also been moments where Kelly is talking to all the sisters and Whitney about something. All the sisters sat together, with the exception of Josie, who was sitting right next to Whitney. I don't know that Josie and Carlin are all that close, but then again I can't imagine being close with Carlin given how loud and obnoxious she can be about EVERYTHING.

While Josie has a beautiful smile, she's not usually the hyper or excited one about things. Much like Alyssa, she seems to be quiet and more reserved. You never really see her with the jaw dropped, squealing, clapping hands demeanor that you would see out of Erin, Carlin, or even Katie. So I wouldn't really expect her to be bouncing and squealing with delight over everything like Carlin and Whitney were doing. 

Just my interpretation, I think she probably was concentrating on the reason for the trip (finding the dress) and making the appointment on time. Kelly isn't really known for her timeliness, so Josie might have been nervous about the time and making her appointment. I have a mother who is very lax about time so I know it drives me crazy when mom is calling the shots and I have something I need to do. Additionally, Kelly (probably inadvertently) puts a lot of pressure on her daughters about these dresses. She made a comment to Josie about whether or not it was worth it to travel to New York for this dress. She made a similar comment to Michaela when they traveled to Nashville to look at dresses. Yes, everyone hopes that they aren't making a trip for a good reason (UP was probably paying for the trip anyway). However, that can put a lot of pressure on a child or adult child of someone that is already having to make a boatload of decisions for the first time in their life. Through no fault of her own, Josie's been raised in a home where every decision is made for her (something that normal families start transitioning out of as the child nears adulthood. Her first big decision was a college program (though I have doubts that was fully her decision). Now she's making decisions about weddings, living after the wedding, etc. Maybe that's why Tori sort of froze up with her wedding planning block. 

To sum it up, Kelly Jo Bates can be a bit thoughtless with her quips that could really hurt some feelings if she is not careful. 

excellent points.

even though the Bates women are legal adults and getting married, many little steps towards adulthood decisions that those outside of their immediate-religious circle experience, they do not do, until its time to marry.

For example -(a) buying a fancy dress.  Well there are HS prom(s), graduation, homecoming, just to name a few events. (b) Another milestone looking for an rental apt- my kiddos learned alot about the renting process just from dealing with off-campus apts (not owned by the university) , summer/co-op internships in a different city, and then once college ends-looking for a place where employment or grad school is. 

Edited January 11, 2019 by sATL

[Absolom]

25 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I don't understand why Kelly was making the New York trip out to be life or death when a) UP was paying for the whole thing and b) it's just a dress. The worst that could happen was Josie didn't like it and they look elsewhere. They got a free vacation so it wouldn't have been a waste of time either way. 

Because that's the script she was given for the episode.  Reality shows are planned if not scripted word by word.  

[FaithfullyYours]

Josie’s dress was beautiful just the way it was originally designed. That’s why she liked it so much. It pissed me off that Kelly made such a big deal about the flesh toned underlay. She totally guilted Josie into choosing that tacky white. The end result came out looking more like she was wearing a T-shirt under her dress. 

[RebeccatheWriter]

10 minutes ago, FaithfullyYours said:

Josie’s dress was beautiful just the way it was originally designed. That’s why she liked it so much. It pissed me off that Kelly made such a big deal about the flesh toned underlay. She totally guilted Josie into choosing that tacky white. The end result came out looking more like she was wearing a T-shirt under her dress. 

I agree. My parents are overly involved in my life (at my request), but Kelly is even more over the top. I shouldn't be surprised. Kelly has been this way with each wedding, as she basically thinks of them as her own. If I were one of the Bates girls, I think I probably would be tempted to elope to avoid the mother of the bride fights that I know I would have with Kelly. She inserts herself into every aspect of the wedding. I was annoyed last week when Kelly and Josie were having lunch with the wedding planner lady. Kelly answered most of the questions. Josie seems a bit more decisive than say Tori, but still it is her wedding and Kelton's. Kelly is not getting married. At least Josie's looking at dresses and has ideas about what she wants. I don't need a repeat of the cake shrug off of 2017. 

As was the rule with sex in my house, if you're mature enough to partake in it, you're mature enough to be able to have a conversation about it. 

[FaithfullyYours]

Seeing how over the top Kelly was, I’m really surprised Carlin was able to get away with her back revealing dress. Does Carlin have a backbone when it comes to her parents?

[sATL]

I'm surprised Josie is/was able to get away with getting married outside of a brick-and-mortar church. The venue shopping they do is too much for me.  Having Kelly walk from the car to the ceremony setting in a park a few times might be enough physical exercise to keep her quiet and let Josie think and dream.

What's scary is that Kelli doesn't feel she is overstepping her bounds... Yes, help, be a sounding board, but keep one-sided-opinions or what other siblings have done to yourself.

Edited January 11, 2019 by sATL

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, FaithfullyYours said:

Josie’s dress was beautiful just the way it was originally designed. That’s why she liked it so much. It pissed me off that Kelly made such a big deal about the flesh toned underlay. She totally guilted Josie into choosing that tacky white. The end result came out looking more like she was wearing a T-shirt under her dress. 

Was the first dress Josie tried on the one she was originally interested in? If so, I actually had similar feelings towards it as Kelly. I thought the lack of detailing on the bodice made Josie look naked across her bustline. All the dresses were some form of lace concoction with a flowy skirt, so forgive me if I'm confusing everything.

[Sew Sumi]

No, Josie's chosen dress was the last one. That needed no modifying. Kelly made that happen. It looked just fine as-is. 

[BitterApple]

8 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

No, Josie's chosen dress was the last one. That needed no modifying. Kelly made that happen. It looked just fine as-is. 

Okay, thank-you. I had a feeling I was mixing them up. 

[sATL]

while looking for the dress - I found the jeweler, listed in the article, who is in Knoxville.. 

http://www.mackley.com/product/a-beautiful-3-33ct-gia-certified-round-brilliant-cut-diamond-j-color-with-si1-clarity-set-into-a-18k-yellow-gold-and-platinum-tulip-head-solitaire-engagement-ring/

Here's the 29K rock - 

A beautiful 3.33ct GIA certified Round Brilliant Cut Diamond J color with SI1 Clarity, set into a 18k yellow gold and platinum tulip head solitaire engagement ring. Diamond measures 9.70 x 9.79 x 5.77mm. This ring weighs 5.5 grams and has a current finger size 5.5.

$29,998.00

Edited January 11, 2019 by sATL

[Sew Sumi]

Carlin got a halo, and it was sizeable. I've seen the center stone cut into quarters to cut cost. I don't see any other way a barely employed kid like Evan could afford the real deal, which would be around $10 grand, even in TN.

[RebeccatheWriter]

1 hour ago, Sew Sumi said:

Carlin got a halo, and it was sizeable. I've seen the center stone cut into quarters to cut cost. I don't see any other way a barely employed kid like Evan could afford the real deal, which would be around $10 grand, even in TN.

That and there was probably a hefty discount for letting UP film in the store. I'm not a big fan of this practice, but many stores will give a discount for showing them in a good light. Granted I wouldn't be able to remember any details even if I was interested in engagement rings because all I saw was Carlin's open mouth and flailing hand. 

[BitterApple]

15 minutes ago, RebeccatheWriter said:

That and there was probably a hefty discount for letting UP film in the store. I'm not a big fan of this practice, but many stores will give a discount for showing them in a good light. 

I checked out Carlin's ring on her Insta, and the center stone looks to be about a carat, with a halo and diamond band. Unless Evan's been saving since pre-school, there's no way he's affording that on a receptionist salary. I wonder if the jeweler sold it to him at cost in exchange for promoting the store on the show.

[sATL]

4 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I checked out Carlin's ring on her Insta, and the center stone looks to be about a carat, with a halo and diamond band. Unless Evan's been saving since pre-school, there's no way he's affording that on a receptionist salary. I wonder if the jeweler sold it to him at cost in exchange for promoting the store on the show.

well.. I can't remember it was the Bates and/or the Duggars but one or both of those parents said they have been saving for eons for the daughters wedding, hence  pre-set monies from them. I was thinking when I heard it - "ok - they are doing like a saving plan for a wedding - like some  saved in a 529  plan for college"

I wouldn't be surprised if there was some financial assistance for the grooms-to-be... IE you save 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, etc and we will match...After all the brides family don't want to be embarrassed by their daughter wearing a small diamond with a modest setting/band.

I been wondering about the ring(s) affordability too ever since Micheala and Brandon got engaged and he designed a custom set for her. I was thinking didn't he just leave college like 6 mths ago, and now you are walking into a ring shop with custom designs...

Edited January 12, 2019 by sATL

[floridamom]

I used to work for GIA in New York man moons ago. A clarity grade of SI-1 isn't a very good one in the diamond industry. A "J" color is a 'near colorless" less than a D-F which is colorless and a better quality stone, color wise.  Regarding Evan, I bet they purchased lab-created stones which are diamonds but are 85% cheaper than natural diamonds which they dig out of the ground. I wouldn't be surprised if they all received lab created stones in their rings. Just makes more 'thrifty' sense and these families preach and advertise just how 'thrifty' they are, remember?

I wouldn't be surprised if they forgot to mention that part. About showing the $29,000 ring; that's just for the show.

Regarding Kelly and the wedding dress shopping....I could see her face when Josie came out in the dress that she loved...just the way it was. Kelly's 'suggestion' about the white liner was not what Josie wanted. She loved the dress as it was. The beige liner, which highlighted the work in the lace was too 'suggestive' for Kelly's modesty standards, suggesting nothing under the lace but skin.

Josie immediately 'agreed' with her mother to have the white lining; as she knew where her 'authority' began and ended regarding her own wedding gown. Made me wonder what Kelly really thought of Whitney's 'racy' sleeveless/ halter 2nd wedding dress. I'm sure the thought Whitney looked like a harlot walking down the 'aisle'.....even a second time as an already, deflowered bride.

Carlin needs to shut up.

[ehall1052]

Just for TV, I wish Josie would have gone to Kleinfeld’s and tried on the Pnina stripper, corseted bridal gown. Kelly would’ve had the vapors!

[65mickey]

21 hours ago, FaithfullyYours said:

Josie’s dress was beautiful just the way it was originally designed. That’s why she liked it so much. It pissed me off that Kelly made such a big deal about the flesh toned underlay. She totally guilted Josie into choosing that tacky white. The end result came out looking more like she was wearing a T-shirt under her dress. 

There was something about Josie's dress that bothered me. Now that you mentioned t shirt under her dress I know what it was. The white underlay made it look like she had on a sleeveless undershirt under her dress. I mean the dress was gorgeous but the white underlay took away from the lace. At least in the pictures the lace didn't show up. It would have been prettier with the original underlay. I confess I agree with Kelly on the first dress. The flesh tone underlay and the weird placement of the lace curving around the breast area of the bodice was pretty suggestive. Josie did make a beautiful bride. 

[andromeda331]

20 hours ago, floridamom said:

I used to work for GIA in New York man moons ago. A clarity grade of SI-1 isn't a very good one in the diamond industry. A "J" color is a 'near colorless" less than a D-F which is colorless and a better quality stone, color wise.  Regarding Evan, I bet they purchased lab-created stones which are diamonds but are 85% cheaper than natural diamonds which they dig out of the ground. I wouldn't be surprised if they all received lab created stones in their rings. Just makes more 'thrifty' sense and these families preach and advertise just how 'thrifty' they are, remember?

I wouldn't be surprised if they forgot to mention that part. About showing the $29,000 ring; that's just for the show.

Regarding Kelly and the wedding dress shopping....I could see her face when Josie came out in the dress that she loved...just the way it was. Kelly's 'suggestion' about the white liner was not what Josie wanted. She loved the dress as it was. The beige liner, which highlighted the work in the lace was too 'suggestive' for Kelly's modesty standards, suggesting nothing under the lace but skin.

Josie immediately 'agreed' with her mother to have the white lining; as she knew where her 'authority' began and ended regarding her own wedding gown. Made me wonder what Kelly really thought of Whitney's 'racy' sleeveless/ halter 2nd wedding dress. I'm sure the thought Whitney looked like a harlot walking down the 'aisle'.....even a second time as an already, deflowered bride.

Carlin needs to shut up.

So do I. I bet Kelly was flipping out about Whitney's dress. If you remember Kelly didn't go with them to pick out that dress. Zach went and a couple of the girls. Kelly must have been pissed that she was cut out and Whitney chose a harlot dress. I hated Kelly's comments and of course Josie caves and completely agrees. Even though she loved the dress when she saw it. Her face lit up and she looked so happy with it on. 

Yes Carlin needs to shut up. 

[sadtvjunkie]

Does anyone know how much that wedding dress would have cost? For such a thrifty family(not) it seems stupid to spend so much on a dress that you will only wear once. I know it was probably comped. Would love to see if they were still poor what all of them would be wearing. Probably one of Michael's creations.

[floridamom]

sadtvjunkie: great post. I wonder with amazement how this family (and the Duggars too) can continue to present themselves as a simple, economically lower middle class family and do the things they do. Most of us don't 'hop a jet' to NYC to look for a wedding dress. We find a nice one locally. This farce can't go on unaddressed much longer. Why aren't more viewers wising up?

[sATL]

3 hours ago, sadtvjunkie said:

Does anyone know how much that wedding dress would have cost? For such a thrifty family(not) it seems stupid to spend so much on a dress that you will only wear once. I know it was probably comped. Would love to see if they were still poor what all of them would be wearing. Probably one of Michael's creations.

and then there are all of the bridesmaids dress.... Kelli's dresses... flower-girls.... are the men getting new threads too ? I think Gil has been repeating his suits- like Pa Duggar

[lookeyloo]

Someone else is paying for them, is my guess.  UPTV

[Sew Sumi]

4 hours ago, sadtvjunkie said:

Does anyone know how much that wedding dress would have cost? For such a thrifty family(not) it seems stupid to spend so much on a dress that you will only wear once. I know it was probably comped. Would love to see if they were still poor what all of them would be wearing. Probably one of Michael's creations.

This dress looks a lot like Josie's. But no way Gil would shell out $3500. I don't think UP would come both the NYC trip AND the dress (especially since they probably comped a lot of the Utah trip). I guess Leanne cut a deal for the free promotion.

https://leannemarshall.com/bridal-1/lane-dress

[RebeccatheWriter]

Michael's wedding, which was the first one on this version of their show, did include a lot of discussion about budgeting. There was even the episode where she really liked the one dress until the woman started talking about the price and the extras of having it altered, pressed, steamed, etc. That was where we as the audience were told that the girls were each given a certain amount for the wedding and that everything else had to come from their savings, working, etc. and that they got the cake and flowers as gifts from the aunts. Erin and Alyssa both had dresses in bags that indicated they were from David's Bridal. 

However, that seems pretty disingenuous given that it is Kelly and Gil who seem to invite half the free world. Michael, Tori, and even Josie seem content to have much smaller weddings without the blanket invitation to everyone.  It is just another way that it feels like Kelly's wedding rather than the couple's event. I don't understand why Josie wouldn't take the picture of the dress she liked to some of the local stores to see if there was something similar in style. I don't know the details of who does what in the design world, but I'm betting that Leanne would have probably shipped samples of dresses to a local place for Josie strictly to get the publicity. Not only was Josie filmed in the dress for the show, magazines featured the wedding, lots of social media, etc. So the whole thing was extravagant for people who buy gifts at thrift stores. A friend of mine in the entertainment industry was able to get several designers to loan out samples for her to try and they weren't getting publicity for it. So not thinking this would be that far of a stretch. 

While I think UP helps, I can tell you from knowing someone who does camera work for them (not the Bates but the new design show they have coming up), UP doesn't have major money to comp all of these trips, dresses, etc. They aren't struggling, but there is some serious budgeting going on with the production team. Given that her appointment was at 2 p.m., Kelly, Carlin, Josie, and Whitney could potentially have flown up early that morning, taken the tour, and then went dress shopping before flying back the same day. That would have saved the cost of hotel rooms, multiple meals, etc. for them and for the crew. It would also lend credence to the theory that Josie was concerned over wasting time with tours. I did that for a business trip a few months ago, as the cost of hotels was way beyond my budget. My flight was $49 each way. Expensive for four people when you add in fees, taxes, etc., but not horribly so. 

[sATL]

On 1/13/2019 at 8:23 PM, Sew Sumi said:

This dress looks a lot like Josie's. But no way Gil would shell out $3500. I don't think UP would come both the NYC trip AND the dress (especially since they probably comped a lot of the Utah trip). I guess Leanne cut a deal for the free promotion.

https://leannemarshall.com/bridal-1/lane-dress

 "each dress is made by hand in NYC when it is ordered. Please allow 20 weeks for production. If you need the dress sooner, please consider one of our rush options.  

what month was the NYC trip ? 

Josie saved a bundle on her venue. As opposed to paying a church fees (esp as a non-member) her wedding was at  Cove Lake State Park in Tennessee. I didn't see where in the park the wedding was - according to the website "shelters/pavilions - $55 and the rec bldg = $350".  So, that probably only adds renting tables/chairs if needed. And flowers .

RE: food an US weekly article said " Wedding-goers nibbled on chips, cheese balls, sandwiches and wedding cake, which was made by Josie’s aunt Kay". Josie also does cosmetology - so she probably had a little nest egg for the trip to Sams'/Costco.

I guess with so many of the sisters married - Gil probably doesn't pick up the tab on the bridesmaid dresses . From US weekly - 'Bridal party members wore custom Renee Miller gowns as they walked down the aisle to J. Pachelbel’s “Canon in D.” "

Edited January 16, 2019 by sATL

[floridamom]

I understand the theory that the ladies may have flown in NYC for the day. However, I highly doubt that because they filmed their time in NY. This takes a lot of time to have a prepared, waiting sightseeing bus; shoot the event; film them 'walking' freely around NYC. These families have security, 'handlers' (who keep the general public away from them) and rehearsals. The general public in NY walks along those sidewalks also and they usually are quite crowded. Notice how no one was around them during these scenes? There was ample space around these ladies. Just doesn't happen in Manhattan during a normal business day. Good theory though.

[lookeyloo]

3 hours ago, floridamom said:

I understand the theory that the ladies may have flown in NYC for the day. However, I highly doubt that because they filmed their time in NY. This takes a lot of time to have a prepared, waiting sightseeing bus; shoot the event; film them 'walking' freely around NYC. These families have security, 'handlers' (who keep the general public away from them) and rehearsals. The general public in NY walks along those sidewalks also and they usually are quite crowded. Notice how no one was around them during these scenes? There was ample space around these ladies. Just doesn't happen in Manhattan during a normal business day. Good theory though.

I love how you said rehearsals.  Because this is a scripted reality show.  Not real, just what they want us to see.  

[BitterApple]

2 hours ago, lookeyloo said:

I love how you said rehearsals.  Because this is a scripted reality show.  Not real, just what they want us to see.  

Very true. 

[sATL]

12 hours ago, floridamom said:

I understand the theory that the ladies may have flown in NYC for the day. However, I highly doubt that because they filmed their time in NY. This takes a lot of time to have a prepared, waiting sightseeing bus; shoot the event; film them 'walking' freely around NYC. These families have security, 'handlers' (who keep the general public away from them) and rehearsals. The general public in NY walks along those sidewalks also and they usually are quite crowded. Notice how no one was around them during these scenes? There was ample space around these ladies. Just doesn't happen in Manhattan during a normal business day. Good theory though.

just by reading the description of the scenes - they could have been anywhere. Just edit in the NYC landmarks when putting the film together.

[RebeccatheWriter]

On 1/16/2019 at 5:27 AM, floridamom said:

I understand the theory that the ladies may have flown in NYC for the day. However, I highly doubt that because they filmed their time in NY. This takes a lot of time to have a prepared, waiting sightseeing bus; shoot the event; film them 'walking' freely around NYC. These families have security, 'handlers' (who keep the general public away from them) and rehearsals. The general public in NY walks along those sidewalks also and they usually are quite crowded. Notice how no one was around them during these scenes? There was ample space around these ladies. Just doesn't happen in Manhattan during a normal business day. Good theory though.

Having worked and been involved with enough people who are on crews for such shows, I'm not seeing anything that tough for them to need even a two-day shoot. If there had been a hotel, they would have filmed there too to throw the name in there simply for the discount. You would have had at least one scene of them in a room talking about something related to being in New York or wedding dress shopping. The filming of the tour was clearly staged, as even during the middle of a week the bus tours through Grayline are normally full or near full. Last time I was on one, there were about 25 operating and you hopped off at places you wanted to see and back on to go to the next. An HBO show was filming at the time and used one of the buses for about an hour to film snippets of a fake tour. The bus was out of commission for about 2 hours, according to one of the guides on another bus. The people we were waiting on the tour with were complaining that they couldn't get on that bus and had to wait for the next one.

The women honestly filmed very little walking in the city. There was some of the general B-roll of stores, shops, restaurants, etc., but little with the ladies interacting with those things. Their walking consisted of less than a block (something an experienced crew can frame out even in NYC) in a more residential area. Even their walk in Central Park was minimal and could have been staged easily by a crew who had experience in the area. Most people I know who shoot that kind of stuff say that walking/talking shots take about 90 minutes to do two locations. Less if you are just shooting them walking and not talking (microphones). So essentially, if they took at 5:30 a.m. flight, they could film from 9 to noonish, have lunch, and still make it to the studio for dresses at 2 to film some more.  

[Adeejay]

I enjoy seeing New York City through the eyes of tourists.  I've lived here all my life.  I've never been to the Empire State building and the Statue of Liberty.  I have no desire to shop on Madison and Fifth Avenues and wouldn't be caught dead in Times Square and Central Park.  However, when I visit other cities and countries, I visit all their landmarks.  Go figure.  

[Squirrely]

Kelton may have had substantial savings to put toward the wedding. He has a great career and presumably lived at home til they got hitched. He may have paid for the dress to make Josie's dream come true. And she works a real full-time job too. Big difference between them and some of the others at the times of their weddings. 

I'm shocked they allowed her to be filmed in a couple of those dresses. She sure did look naked under that lace! Can you imagine a Duggar bride even trying that on, let alone airing the footage? Ha! 

And someone fetch my smelling salts before the Carlin/Evan engagement airs! They're going to smush their bodies together and sway to the devil's drum?! Holy shit. But still no kissing! 

[BitterApple]

I'd bet my house Evan and Kelly couldn't locate Maine on a map before the producers suggested Portland for the engagement episode. 

Josie's venue was stunning. Is her wedding planner a real wedding planner or is she a Sierra type? Because if she's the former it's a tad unprofessional to be dragging a horde of kids to every meeting.

I love Erin's house and I'm happy her poufy Victorian hair is back. 

I feel horribly that Whitney had a miscarriage, but it seems like they announced the pregnancy a bit prematurely. It might be wiser to wait next time. 

I thought everyone's food looked good and I was impressed that Zach had a decent set of cooking skills. Lawson's fried chicken made me chuckle because it's the only thing my husband knows how to cook as well.

Edited January 18, 2019 by BitterApple

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

I'd bet my house Evan and Kelly couldn't locate Maine on a map before the producers suggested Portland for the engagement episode. 

Josie's venue was stunning. Is her wedding planner a real wedding planner or is she a Sierra type? Because if she's the former it's a tad unprofessional to be dragging a horde of kids to every meeting.

I love Erin's house and I'm happy her poufy Victorian hair is back. 

I feel horribly that Whitney had a miscarriage, but it seems like they announced the pregnancy a bit prematurely. It might be wiser to wait next time. 

I thought everyone's food looked good and I was impressed that Zach had a decent set of cooking skills. Lawson's fried chicken made me chuckle because it's the only thing my husband knows how to cook as well.

I was impressed by Zach's cooking skills too and that Erin won given all the vegetables on in her chicken knowing how picky eaters kids can be. I did laugh when she said she wanted to cook something her siblings hadn't seen before. Yeah, I doubt they see much vegetables. 

I doubt Evan or Kelly came up with the idea of Maine either. They were more right when Erin or Evan said something formal. She seems like she'd like something more fancy. Or maybe the waterfall that Evan mentioned. Does Carlin even like lighthouses? Does she like Maine? I did laugh at one of the first things mentioned was how great the pictures would be. Now that's right up Carlin and Evan's alley.

[floridamom]

I"m still of the opinion that these unnecessary proposal trips and unnecessary, over the top and UP financed. There is no way under God's green earth that ANY of these families would be doing such things without their 'tv show' paying for it. It's not relatable to most people. How is it that they claim to be 'just plain ordinary folks'?

[Lisa418722]

I did like Zach saying by the time Callie gets married it's going to have to be in space with a wedding on Mars.  I can see Josie wanting to go to Utah, but doubt she thought that would be the place to get engaged.  I always thought Carlin wanted something "fancy" but I cannot fall for the idea that Kelly thought "let's go to Maine."  Even though I knew it was Maine, when they said Portland, I wanted either Kelly or Erin to say they didn't realize Portland TN has a lighthouse like that one. 

Edited January 18, 2019 by Lisa418722

[Evagirl]

4 hours ago, floridamom said:

It's not relatable to most people. How is it that they claim to be 'just plain ordinary folks'?

It's the "bounce" that UP TV gives them that makes them interesting to watch.  I don't think it was ever intended to be a  show Jenny & John Q Public could relate to.  How many couples have 19 kids?  And if they did, wouldn't they be on TV too?  They get paid for allowing UP to video parts of their lives, courting, engagements, weddings, babies, break-ups, etc.  And because UP wants to make it at least entertaining to watch, they pay for a lot of trips and excursions,  

I watch this show because I enjoy watching the family grow up on TV.  I watch because I truly believe that the children love and respect their parents, which I can relate to.  I watch this show through a filter, things I can relate to I say, "Yeah, that's right."  Things I could never relate to, I say, "Whatever."  I don't watch to critique the family or snark on anyone.  Once it's over, I'll read this forum for a couple of days to get reactions and then I don't think about it again until the next week.

[sATL]

Erin - when you showed up with all of your precise prep work done in individual ziploc bags all in a carrying cooler - you had my vote. That woman has been studying someone and/or something... It sure looked pretty and I see seasoning on the chicken..She came to win..

sidenote 1: I wouldn't have placed veggies on top of raw chicken b/c I am a sticker for chicken to be cooked and would be afraid the veggies would overcook. Her pieces looked pretty thick.

 

sidenote 2: I was more interested in the cooking competition in the episode - maybe b/c Top Chef also comes on Thursday night. Bonus points for the twice baked potato, complete with garnishes.

Now let me scroll back to see  what else happened in the episode - besides the overally emotional scene about the pregnancy loss complete with Zach giving a talk with a Bible in his hand...

I too wish they wouldn't announce soon  to everybody about a pregnancy. You would think Dr. Vick would caution them against that until a certain number of weeks have passed - maybe that is what is going on with Micheala - she is keeping quiet.

Erin is stronger that I would be allowing others to constantly bring up her pregnancy losses - esp. now that she has 3 kids. I would find it a little insensitive and not something I want others to keep bringing up - "oh dear Carson , Brooklyn and Everly you have 3-4 siblings in heaven..."

Edited January 19, 2019 by sATL