Laurel Lance: Black Canary, Black Siren.

[bijoux]

I still say that she should send it back to Cisco for touch-ups accompanied by a carefully worded letter of complaint. The success rate is somewhere in the vicinity of 15%. He should do better. Or train Laurel in how to use it properly.

[doesntworkonwood]

The scream can shatter glass in one scene, but in the next a rando asks Laurel "is that all you got?" when she does it directly to his face, so, you know, it's as inconsistent as everything else they ever write for her.

'For once Laurel's Canary Cry was actually useful in this episode'... except when it wasn't. 

 

Inconsistencies across episodes I can sort of understand, but inconsistencies across about ten minutes of one episode is pretty freaking hilarious.

[morakot]

Its power certainly varies -- as I remember, she was wearing the collar when she was imprisoned in Nanda Parbat but they still had to rely on Barry coming to save them. She doesn't seem to worry about the ear drums of her team-mates so that wouldn't have been the case then either. Maybe it's powered by plot!

[Primal Slayer]

The Canary Cry seems to have different frequencies that she Laurel can use depending on the situation. The more dire the circumstance, the higher the frequency, I can only for the life of me make some sort of sense out of the CC being used on the prisoners or whatever by thinking she had it set on low due to her teammates being right next to her so it doesn't cause any major damage. But yeah they most definitely need to stop being so inconsistent with it since she should set it on high when faing the bad guys since it would make for a shorter cry and more damage. Though they very rarely use it when it makes sense to use it.

 

Wasn't Oliver right in front of the glass?  If the Canary Cry could crack glass, then wouldn't it shatter his eardrums as well?

 

Since the rescue was planned, then I guess he could be wearing earplugs, but then how did he hear DD and anyone else talk to him?  Does he read lips?

Same way all the baddies fail to hear the team calling them by their real names. Very very VERY selective hearing skills.

[KenyaJ]

Maybe it's powered by plot!

 

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner!

[hogwash]

Laurel's full name is Dinah Laurel Lance and that's the full name of the Black Canary in the comics. That's her motivation/training/experience. That's pretty much it.

[kismet]

Laurel's full name is Dinah Laurel Lance and that's the full name of the Black Canary in the comics. That's her motivation/training/experience. That's pretty much it.

You forgot to mention that everyone feels the need to point out that she is "always trying to save the world". Even if there is nothing in script that supports that universal assertion. It's like she hired a good PR firm to really solidify what everyone should think about her, despite contrary or lack of evidence.

[statsgirl]

That's a good example of a quick and easy fix to the problems with audience reaction to Laurel -- have her actually trying to save the world -- instead of the big and often failing fixes they do (the addiction crucible, fighting with Sara, beating up bad guys because it quells the fire inside).

 

In the first three seasons, the only 'saving the world' thing she did was helping people at CNRI and even that was tainted by the fact that her first case she didn't care where the money came from and the second she had a fight with Oliver in front of her client.

 

In the last episode in s1, instead of running around saving the papers, they should have shown her ushering her staff outside to save them from the earthquake.

[Starfish35]

Yeah, if they'd shown her running into the Glades to save people instead of paperwork, maybe a child, that would have come across as a lot more sympathetic. Instead it comes across as if she's putting her staff's lives at risk to save files.

[apinknightmare]

I get why they had her at CNRI - she needed to be somewhere that Oliver and Tommy would both know to go looking for her. Theoretically, putting her life at risk to save paperwork for cases belonging to poor and underrepresented people who are counting on her is a noble and selfless thing to do, but the whole time I just kept wondering why those were the only copies of these documents they had. I think it would've worked better if she was there to make sure that everyone working got out safely before the earthquake hit. 

[statsgirl]

MG was all "when you see the deleted scene, you'll know what a good person she is" and when the scene came out, most of the comments were "why didn't they have any electronic copies and back-ups?"

 

Another example of how they think the audience will react and it backfires on them.

[Starfish35]

From Social Media thread:

Just getting rid of 2 strap from each boot would make an improvement.

I think if they got rid of the buckles on the insides and the strap that runs up the back it would help. That strap that runs up the back of her legs is just crazy looking when you see her from the side or the back and makes her look like she's wearing leg braces of some sort. And the buckles on the inside of the legs are stupid. They're noisy when they clank together and they're an accident waiting to happen when they catch on each other. Having the buckles on just the outside of the legs would have been more than enough.

All that said, I think they should have done a boot with some sort of leather lacing on it, rather than the buckles and straps. But that's just my non-fashionista opinion.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Starfish35

[statsgirl]

Lacing up past-the-knew boots would take forever though.  I'd go for fake lacing and a zipper on the inside or back to get in and out of the quickly.

 

Or really, anything that got rid of the buckles on the inside of the legs.  They're an example of fashion form over functional wear, not the best decision for a secret vigilante costume.

[Starfish35]

I'd go for fake lacing and a zipper on the inside or back to get in and out of the quickly.

Oh definitely. But yes, the buckles on the insides of the legs need to go. And I have no idea what even the point of that strap up the back of her leg is.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Starfish35

[Primal Slayer]

Yeah that always confused me. It doesn't even look good on the back of the boot, just very awkward. 

[tv echo]

Following up on the Laura Hurley tumblr posts and the Untitled TV article on Laurel (posted in the Media thread)...

 

CNRI wasn't Laurel's first choice of law job. She first planned to work for a large law firm in San Francisco. I think the EPs' version of Laurel is that Sara's death made her want to save the world, but something changed her and made her give up that dream and go corporate instead, until her father's rant set her straight (see dialogue below from 314-"The Return").  However, they still didn't do a good job of explaining why she would stay with the smarmy, cheating pre-island Ollie.  Also, the good girl Laurel did not seem consistent with the snitch sister Laurel who sabotaged her sister's chance with Oliver and then dated him instead.  The show has not done a good job of developing a consistent character in Laurel.

 

Laurel: "What are you doing here?"
Tommy: "I heard you decided to go corporate in San Francisco instead of saving the world in Starling City."
Laurel: "I realized that maybe the world can't be saved."
*  *  *
Quentin: "Wow, you really have a thing for these rich bad boys, don't you? I mean, you think maybe, just maybe, one of 'em getting your sister killed would have gotten you cured of that."
Laurel: "Dad!"
*  *  *
Quentin: "I'm sorry, was I embarrassing you?"
Laurel: "No. Yourself."
Quentin: "At least I know who I am. And I'm not becoming someone I'm not. Hanging around with billionaire playboys like some kind of gold digger? Taking on a sell out job in San Francisco."
Laurel: "Is that what this is about?"
Quentin: "When Sara died, you said you wanted to go to law school 'cause you wanted to make the world a better place."
Laurel: "Wetherby Posner is one of the most prestigious firms in the country."
Quentin: "You said you wanted to help people. All you'd be doing there is helping fat cats get fatter."
Laurel: "You know, maybe this sermon would have a little bit more credibility if you weren't so lit right now."
Quentin: "Well, I don't need to be sober to see what you're doing with your life. I just wish you could, too."

 

Here's another inconsistency - the above flashback seems to indicate that it was Sara's 'death' on the Gambit that made Laurel decide to become a lawyer and save the world.  Yet present-day Sara says to her, "Laurel Lance, always trying to save the world" - which indicates that Laurel was like this before Sara 'died'.

Edited January 1, 2016 by tv echo

[bijoux]

You know, I find Laurel deciding to go to San Francisco really understandable. She was 25 or so around the time and seemingly had been saddled caring for her alcoholic Dad for a few years, where it seem the rest of her life revolved around law school. Opting for a fresh start looks like a healthy decision.

[kismet]

You know, I find Laurel deciding to go to San Francisco really understandable. She was 25 or so around the time and seemingly had been saddled caring for her alcoholic Dad for a few years, where it seem the rest of her life revolved around law school. Opting for a fresh start looks like a healthy decision.

Totally agree, it seemed like a good idea to me.

 

They could have had her take the job in San Francisco, get a little disillusioned with the system and law, have her move back to SC to return to her roots and have her help the disenfranchised at CNRI. That way some of her behavior in s1 would have made more sense. She was starting out at a new place and didn't want her family drama pulled into it, which is why she shut off the TV. Could also explain why her and TM were never more serious, because they only really hooked up when she was back in town visiting her Dad. It really could have explained so much, without taking anything away from her vigilantism.

 

It honestly makes perfect sense to me that LL would move to SF to take a position in a wealthy law firm. It would also make perfect sense that if she was always trying to save the world, that lifestyle may have gotten to her after a few years which is why she moved back home. Which would have made sense that once she saw the corruption everywhere on both sides of the law, she decided to take matters into her own untrained hands & fight the good fight for justice. It could also explain her irrational level of anger towards OQ, because every time she seems to want to do something with her life, he somehow finds a way to do something that mucks it up - whether it be dying or coming back from the dead. She moves home to start a new life and he decides to come back from the dead.

 

But I have to stop now, because I am breaking my personal promise to not try to fix or understand the LL character anymore. The writers have made it clear that they don't care about her, so I need to remember to show LL that same courtesy.

[bijoux]

I almost hate how good of a backstory that is. Because it could have been good and made so much sense.

[kismet]

I know... it is sad. It's not really that hard to write a believable and enjoyable backstory for LL. The ideas and suggestions throughout this thread alone are proof that the writers and TPTB have completely dropped the ball on LL and are blind to why they failed, which is why its hopeless to believe that they can change it.

[Sakura12]

I think the first mistake with Laurel was the casting. Another actress maybe could have made the character work.

KC plays her too cold and distant. Laurel needed warmth to make me believe she was always trying to save the world. CL gave warmth and kindness to Sara despite her being an assassin.

[BkWurm1]

I think the first mistake with Laurel was the casting. Another actress maybe could have made the character work.

KC plays her too cold and distant. Laurel needed warmth to make me believe she was always trying to save the world. CL gave warmth and kindness to Sara despite her being an assassin.

 

Agree and disagree.  Not sure anyone could infuse this with warmth and kindness. 

 

 

Laurel: " Why are you here, Ollie? "

 

Oliver:  "To apologize. It was my fault. I wanted to ask you not to blame her."

 

Laurel: "For what? Falling under your spell. How could I possibly blame her for doing the same things that I did?"

 

Oliver:" I never meant to... "

 

Laurel:  "She was my sister. I couldn't be angry because she was dead. I couldn't grieve because I was so angry. That's what happens when your sister dies while screwing your boyfriend. We buried an empty coffin...because her body was at the bottom of the ocean where you left her. It should have been you."

 

Oliver: "I know that it's too late to say this, but I'm sorry. "

 

Laurel: "Yeah, I'm sorry, too. I'd hoped that you'd rot in hell a whole lot longer than 5 years." 

Edited January 2, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Morrigan2575]

Agree and disagree. Not sure anyone could infuse this with warmth and kindness.

Actually, a good actor could but it would require being able to convey more than one emotion in a scene and being able to transition through them relatively well.

Laurel: " Why are you here, Ollie? " - awkward/scared not ready for this confrontation.

Oliver: "To apologize. It was my fault. I wanted to ask you not to blame her."

Laurel: "For what? Falling under your spell. How could I possibly blame her for doing the same things that I did?" sad and defeated

Oliver:" I never meant to... "

Laurel: "She was my sister. I couldn't be angry because she was dead. I couldn't grieve because I was so angry. still sad but starting to get upset

That's what happens when your sister dies while screwing your boyfriend. We buried an empty coffin...because her body was at the bottom of the ocean where you left her. It should have been you." angry with undertones of sadness, yelling while also teary-eyed

Oliver: "I know that it's too late to say this, but I'm sorry. "

Laurel: "Yeah, I'm sorry, too. I'd hoped that you'd rot in hell a whole lot longer than 5 years." quiet voice, bitter

This type of transition and range is complicated but not impossible. We've seen examples of it from other actors on Arrow (Katrina Law in 213 during the hostage exchange is one example).

Edited January 2, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[statsgirl]

Good examples Morrigan2575.

 

There should be hurt there too, and a loss of trust.  The bitterness and anger stemming from hurt that not only did the man who was supposed to love her and treat her well cheat on her with her sister, he got her sister killed.

 

To make Laurel and her dialogue work, she had to play it on two or more levels (e.g. SA played Oliver as unfeeling but there were time he let the pain show through).  KC only played the top note.

[BkWurm1]

It's that final line that I have difficulty not seeing as insurmountable but if she'd been able to say the final line and then somehow convey that she realized she'd said something too horrible,I could get behind it, like if she'd cringed after he was gone.

Otherwise to really in the present wish he was still rotting in hell makes the transition later to her offering to be the one he can talk to make no bleeping sense, even if it was a quiet bitterness.

Maybe a simple line change would have done it for me. Switch to wished he'd stayed dead. That is both cruel enough to fit with her anger but also so very understandable because she at least before knew how to cope with her life. But hoping someone was still rotting in hell is sooo much worse than wishing he'd stayed dead (even if the line share similar sentiments). That's active malice with ongoing thought behind it and the reason Laurel being willing to even be in the same room as Oliver made no sense to me.

It was just too much unless it could somehow be walked back a bit.

[doesntworkonwood]

Actually, a good actor could but it would require being able to convey more than one emotion in a scene and being able to transition through them relatively well.

 

One of the reasons I had a problem with Laurel in season 1 was because of how wishy washy she was with Oliver and her opinions of him. She either completely hated him, or completely didn't, and then she'd go back to completely hating him again. There wasn't really a gradual shift between the two, she'd be either or dependent on the scene. Part of that was definitely a writing problem (they didn't know what the wanted Laurel to be at all), but part of it as also the acting. We've noted here many times that KC seems to be really 'one-note' which makes it difficult to understand how Laurel would go from one extreme to the other.

[dtissagirl]

I do wonder what if the CW had cast someone like Cassidy Freeman [if they really wanted someone named Cassidy], who can deliver a shit ton of emotional range with just her eyes, then maybe the terribad writing they've consistently given Laurel would have been mitigated.

 

Unfortunately, I think bad writing begets bad acting. And vice-versa. They write Laurel terribly, and KC is mediocre at best, and completely unable to sleight of hand her way out of bad lines by infusing some depth, or layers, into it. And the result is the writing for Laurel also doesn't get better, because the acting is not making anyone watching excited to see more of it.

Edited January 2, 2016 by dtissagirl

[looptab]

You know, that scene wasn't a big problem for me. She was understandably angry, and that was fine by me. Even if she wished he'd rot in hell longer. My problem with her begun in episode 2, when out of nowhere she starts telling their whole history in front of her client. I get they had to insert the exposition somewhere, somehow, but that was so inappropriate and cringeworthy. :/

[Morrigan2575]

Unfortunately, I think bad writing begets bad acting. And vice-versa. They write Laurel terribly, and KC is mediocre at best, and completely unable to sleight of hand her way out of bad lines by infusing some depth, or layers, into it. And the result is the writing for Laurel also doesn't get better, because the acting is not making anyone watching excited to see more of it.

The problem, IMO is more KCs acting then the writing. I went back last year and read the pilot script. I understood and empathized with the Laurel in the script.

However, the Laurel in the pilot as acted by KC left no room for empathy or sympathy. By the end of the pilot I felt nothing for Laurel, by episode 2 I had already decided that Laurel was Lana Lang and I was dreading the continued Lauiver crap.

This argument has and always will circle around. It's a chicken and the egg argument. Did bad writing beget bad acting or did the bad acting force bad writing? I've long since lost any desire to be nuanced or fair. I no longer even care about the argument so I'm just going to be absolute in my blame.

I've said this before if you can read Laurel in a script or comic tie-in and have a different reaction to the character then you do in the episode the issue isn't the writing.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[hogwash]

Considering we're talking about *where it all went wrong* just two episodes into the show, I'll always think it's writing (and casting) issue. It's the easiest explanation for the S01 finale and 2A. It's not like there wasn't a plan for a big character like Dinah Laurel Lance and the GA/BC romance. But two episodes in and I was trying to figure out what that expression, gesture, or action was supposed to mean vs how I was actually saw it. I'm sure there are actresses out there who could've made it work but the soulmates drawn together stuff they were trying to pull didn't even kinda work with the sister swapping/cheating that got one sister killed backstory. 

 

What was the episode where Oliver shows up at her apartment with ice cream? I think the ice cream was an apology for telling Laurel to stay away from him (because he's formalizing his plans to become a spree killer....) in the pilot. That was dumb (why would she want to be near him????) and the beginning of my ???? at Laurel/Oliver. I also hated that they had Thea be the one to give him the idea. When deciding to reconnect after 5* years on a deserted* island, younger sibling >>>>>>>>>ex you cheated on. 

[bijoux]

 

What was the episode where Oliver shows up at her apartment with ice cream? I think the ice cream was an apology for telling Laurel to stay away from him (because he's formalizing his plans to become a spree killer....) in the pilot. That was dumb (why would she want to be near him????) and the beginning of my ???? at Laurel/Oliver. I also hated that they had Thea be the one to give him the idea. When deciding to reconnect after 5* years on a deserted* island, younger sibling >>>>>>>>>ex you cheated on.

I think it's the second episode. I may be confusing things, but I think the ice cream visit is when China White attacks, Dig intervenes and Oliver saves him. Leading to Dig getting even more suspicious about Oliver. And checking the episode list, China White didn't appear between episodes 2 and 7. It definitely didn't happen in episode 7.

[tv echo]

Quentin: "When Sara died, you said you wanted to go to law school 'cause you wanted to make the world a better place."

Laurel: "Wetherby Posner is one of the most prestigious firms in the country."

Quentin: "You said you wanted to help people. All you'd be doing there is helping fat cats get fatter."

 

Forgot to add: The above 314 dialogue also seems a little inconsistent with the tie-in comic, Arrow Vol. 1, Chapter 14 ("Call to the Bar"), where Quentin tells young Laurel to protect her younger sister, Sara, because in their family, they protect those who can't protect themselves and then, at the end of that story, they show young Laurel giving food to a homeless guy and looking at a catalog for Starling University's pre-law program.

Edited January 2, 2016 by tv echo

[quarks]

The ice cream scene is in episode 2. 

[BkWurm1]

You know, that scene wasn't a big problem for me. She was understandably angry, and that was fine by me. Even if she wished he'd rot in hell longer. My problem with her begun in episode 2, when out of nowhere she starts telling their whole history in front of her client. I get they had to insert the exposition somewhere, somehow, but that was so inappropriate and cringeworthy. :/

 

My problem isn't the very justified anger, it's the context of dropping one very angry scene before then doing a complete about face and wanting to be there for Oliver. The two couldn't (as performed) co exist in the same episode and make sense.

Of course when he rejects her offer to be the one he confides in, she goes back to being angers but now it just comes off as petty.

 

The ice cream scene is in episode 2.

Oh I hated that scene. Thea begs him to let her in, even to the point of bringing him to his headstone and pointing out she had a richer relationship with said stone and yet the one he turns to is the very one that not only wishes he was still dead but who he rebuffed in just the prior episode and now he's the one showing up with ice cream. Ice cream! Of all the things to bond over with a kid sister it is ice cream but nope, Laurel gets it, not Thea and in that moment I HATED Laurel's existence. I mean just seethed. I've never before or since been so upset about a character that soon into a show.

That's some pretty crappy writing.

[wonderwall]

Oh I hated that scene. Thea begs him to let her in, even to the point of bringing him to his headstone and pointing out she had a richer relationship with said stone and yet the one he turns to is the very one that not only wishes he was still dead but who he rebuffed in just the prior episode and now he's the one showing up with ice cream. Ice cream! Of all the things to bond over with a kid sister it is ice cream but nope, Laurel gets it, not Thea and in that moment I HATED Laurel's existence. I mean just seethed. I've never before or since been so upset about a character that soon into a show.

 

It was from that moment on that Laurel actually got everything without even having to try so hard. 

• Oliver opening up to her with that ice cream moment Thea wanted so bad even though she didn't do anything to merit this and even though this made little to no sense
• getting her job back through blackmail
• getting over alcoholism just by going to a few AA meetings???
• going out into the field and the others LET her even though she's highly untrained and could've died
• Just getting the mask in general because apparently her life was heading in that direction always even though there was no indication for this
• Her relationships apparently were easy to fix even though they were insanely messed up (like her lying to her father had almost zero ramifications, her screwed up relationship with Oliver was fixed in a few hours)
• Laurel's screw up of resurrecting Sara was fixed without her even trying (I mean she ran in circles... I suppose it was the least she could do)

 

There is just so much more but you get it...

Edited January 2, 2016 by wonderwall

[KirkB]

If KC's acting ability, or lack thereof, is the major issue then nothing they do with the character could ever be good enough. I think KC is perfectly capable of portraying a certain kind of character (mean, rude, judgmental) and if they had intentionally made Laurel that way it would have been fine. Instead she comes across that way, at least to me, while everyone on the show is calling her a pure hearted crusader trying to save the world.

 

What I don't get is why that didn't go the route that would have satisfied almost everyone (obviously not anyone who already disliked KC). Forget Sara in the first place and have Laurel be the one who went on the boat with Oliver.

[Sakura12]

I really wonder had KC worked as Laurel would we even have Sara? Or maybe they would've kept their original intention of making Sara bad.

 

I think because Laurel/KC had failed to win over most of the fans they changed everything around, Felicity became the main love interest and Sara came in as Canary so they could have their iconic Green Arrow and Black Canary fighting side by side. I have noticed they haven't done that with Oliver and Laurel (not on the same scale that Oliver and Sara were shown as fighting partners). 

[wonderwall]

I think that if Laurel worked: 

 

• Digg wouldn't have had a larger role in Oliver's life than he does now
• Tommy would've become evil instead of dead
• Malcolm would remain dead
• Felicity's role on the show wouldn't have evolved
• OTA would never have been born
• Sara would've become Ravager instead of Laurel's sister
• Oliver/Laurel would probably be together by now (and possibly facing a lot of issues)
• Laurel probably would've started her BC stint in S2 instead of S3
• The show would be filled with Lances all the time
• It would've essentially become the GA/BC show

 

Tbh I'm glad she didn't work out because I got everything I wanted out of Felicity, OTA, Digg, minimum Lance stuff (although I want it all to be gone), Sara being a badass fighter

Edited January 2, 2016 by wonderwall

[dtissagirl]

If Laurel had worked I would have probably quit the show mid-S1, and never looked back.

[Primal Slayer]

This show was constantly changing since day 1. KC signed up for a show where she was a co-lead, making her much more important than just a love interest. I think bts they just wanted their cake and eat it too.

I always feel like the writers have a bittersweet relationship with the character due to her comic status. Everyone wanted the charecter to go one way while they wanted to go another. They seem more interested in "original" charecters that they can shape more freely then popular comic charecters where there are higher expectations. Apart from Oliver, Slade, i feel like is the only major comic charecter they did a good job of adapting.

[KirkB]

Isn't Laurel the only one who got the "because comics" excuse? They made up Moira, Thea, Quentin, Sara and Diggle, so they were able to do whatever they wanted with them. They played around with Roy and Helena, did their own version of Felicity and versions of Oliver and Slade which were similar to but not exactly the same as the comics, and as I recall said in a couple of interviews that they were not beholden to the comics. That was actually one of the things I liked about Smallville. Yes, Clark was always going to become Superman but they said from the beginning they were doing an adaptation, and were under no obligation to do anything exactly the way it happened in the comics. Yet for some reason Laurel, alone, HAD to be the Black Canary "because comics".

Edited January 3, 2016 by KirkB

[Primal Slayer]

Roy/Ra's/Helena are all "because comics" all became who they were suppose to be whether it be good or bad, ignored or otherwise. I think they always were going to make Laurel BC regardless of any changes they made, just how they went about it may have got modified along the journey. 

[wonderwall]

Isn't Laurel the only one who got the "because comics" excuse? They made up Moira, Thea, Quentin, Sara and Diggle, so they were able to do whatever they wanted with them. They played around with Roy and Helena, did their own version of Felicity and versions of Oliver and Slade which were similar to but not exactly the same as the comics, and as I recall said in a couple of interviews that they were not beholden to the comics. That was actually one of the things I liked about Smallville. Yes, Clark was always going to become Superman but they said from the beginning they were doing an adaptation, and were under no obligation to do anything exactly the way it happened in the comics. Yet for some reason Laurel, alone, HAD to be the Black Canary "because comics".

 

Basically... I still roll my eyes when I think of her saying that her life was ALWAYS heading in the direction of her wearing a mask because that's pretty much a blatant lie. It wasn't always heading in that direction because that would mean regardless of circumstance, Laurel would've put a mask on at some point in her life and before Sara died, there was no evidence that her life was heading in that direction considering she was happy as the ADA. Her putting on a mask was too circumstantial for it to be 'destiny'. 

[dtissagirl]

My theory is their original set up was a ~destiny~ story for everyone, Oliver included [exemplified by Raisa in the pilot, who apparently saw something greater beneath the bad hair and the douchiness of pre-island Oliver]. That would have been intrinsically connected to the ~epicness~ of the Laurel/Oliver romance, with Laurel sharing Raisa's ideals about Oliver, and in being magnanimous and forgiving about Oliver's betrayal, their destinies would be fullfilled as both superheroes, and a couple.

But right after the pilot they got rid of Raisa, and then around 103-108, they also decided to dump their original trio of Oliver, Laurel, and Tommy [who was also destined for Dark Archer] for a NO DESTINY story in which Diggle and Felicity are Oliver's guides in his journey, who neither had ideals about him because they didn't know him before, and who also actively change Oliver in the present of the story, instead of because of whatever predetermined endgame that came from either the comics, or their original premise.

But for some bizarre reason I cannot understand, they stuck with DESTINY for Laurel's superhero journey. Which ended up making it really really empty, and gave it this sticking out like a sore thumb feeling, probably because the overall theme was removed from everywhere else in the narrative.

[kismet]

Because the writers know in their bones that it's Laurel's destiny to be the one true superhero of the show. Everybody else has to earn their mask the hard way...

[wonderwall]

Because the writers know in their bones that it's Laurel's destiny to be the one true superhero of the show. Everybody else has to earn their mask the hard way...

 

Wait... you're telling me that Sara, Digg, Oliver all earned their masks the hard way? 

 

How very common of them

Edited January 4, 2016 by wonderwall

[kismet]

Wait... you're telling me that Sara, Digg, Oliver all earned their masks the hard way?

How very common of them

Quintin, Thea & Roy too!

Heck even Barry who was struck by lightning has had to earn it to a degree.

And now apparently Felicity will earn hers...

Such commoners this Flarrowverse Heroes are... Destiny is only betrothed on the truly special ones.

[Primal Slayer]

Lol, she earned her mask plenty. Put herself in danger for her clients, fight the good fight, in harms way plenty, never giving up. Love Laurel (90% of the time) 

[EmilyBettFan]

I remember her being in danger more times than her putting herself in danger for them. Not to mention Oliver as the hood winning all of her cases for her.

[wonderwall]

Beacon of Hope. They are clearly taking about Laurel.

 

lol

 

I actually read in a recap in the news page that someone called her the 'idealist' of the team... What do you guys think about that?

I'm not really sure because I'm still not clear on Laurel or what makes her Laurel... She has no clear defining characteristics, imo.