Laurel Lance: Black Canary, Black Siren.

[writersblock51]

[Edited by mod.]

 

Consequences - I think it's been well established that consequences are inconsistent on the show for many characters.  Oliver gets blamed for EVERYTHING, at least by Quentin.   It's absurd and tiresome.  Laurel has yet to face any serious and long lasting consequences for any of her bad decisions.  That's also absurd and tiresome.   It's worse in her case, for me, because she absolutely holds everyone else accountable.  That's not unreasonable but her history makes her a hypocrite.

Edited October 15, 2015 by MuuMuuChainsmoker

[Traveller]

I am not a Laurel fan but I didn't have a problem with her decision. It was an emotional decision and I would have made the same decision if I were in her place. I don't think Laurel  made peace with Sara's death because the person who murdered her (Malcom) is still alive and thriving and the one person capable of avenging her (Oliver) has basically rewarded her murderer (making him Ra's). Oliver is the last person who should have a say in Sara's resurrection. She couldn't avenge her sisters death and this must have been eating her from the inside. From her perspective, her sister's life was cut short brutally. So, if she has a chance at restoring Sara's life she will jump at such a chance. 

 

I don't think Thea's situation would be a deterrent. The side effects of the pit aren't that adverse at this point of time. So Thea gets a bit aggressive during the fights, so what? From Laurel's point of view its not something that cannot be solved in the future. It was something that Diggle and Laurel didn't even notice before Oliver's arrival.

 

And it's not likely that Sara's soul is at peace in the afterlife ( If one wants to look at this angle). As much as I love Sara, she has killed a lot of people in her life and she is most probably suffering  in hell.( I think we will find this in the "Constantine" episode since he will travel to the other world to bring back Sara's soul). So bringing her back to life will give Sara a longer period to atone for her sins just like Oliver needs redemption for all the murders that he has committed.

 

I can't believe that I am defending Laurel's decisions but I can understand why she would choose to revive her sister.

[catrox14]

I don't care if Sara is Laurel's sibling.

 

They have failed to sell me on Laurel's motivations for any of this. They never gave us any clues at all that Laurel has been carrying around this great need to bring Sara back. That somehow under the surface she was just WAITING for this information so she could resurrect her sister.  She hasn't mentioned anything to Quentin, or anyone that she's even if wondered how she could bring her back.

 

We haven't gotten any scenes of her even having an invisible thought bubble moment lingering over her sister's picture that would imply she wanted this for Sara's sake. Or that Sara has some super special significance that would compel Laurel to dig up her bones and take her to the Lazarus Pit

 

On top of that she's dragging Thea who's already suffering into the thing. And sorry but KC is not selling me on anything happening under the surface to tell me that part of the story either.

 

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that someone else is pulling the strings on Laurel and sent her on this mission to resurrect Sara for reasons.  That would explain a lot for me.

 

It won't make me like Laurel any better but it sure would explain her sudden actions.

Edited October 15, 2015 by catrox14

[writersblock51]

I don't think Thea's situation would be a deterrent. The side effects of the pit aren't that adverse at this point of time. So Thea gets a bit aggressive during the fights, so what? From Laurel's point of view its not something that cannot be solved in the future. It was something that Diggle and Laurel didn't even notice before Oliver's arrival.

 

There's a big difference between being more aggressive (like breaking a thug's arm - it'll heal) and setting someone on fire, intending for that person to die.

 

Why did the effects with Thea start to be more apparent now?  We don't know that she wasn't breaking arms during the summer.  Laurel and Diggle were appropriately alarmed when the Queens were fighting BUT we have not seen any of their action, besides the premiere, when Oliver wasn't around.  We are assuming that Thea's aggression is a recent thing, coiciding with Oliver's return.  But he noticed she was a bit off the very first time he saw her fighting - it's just as easy, I think, to assume that she was like that for some time but Laurel and Diggle simply chalked it down to enthusiasm, adrenaline, etc.

 

I think if you ask 100 people if they'd try to resurrect a recently lost loved one, you'd get a bunch of Yes and Nos.  So I think Laurel's decision is ambigous.  As a viewer who has lost a sister (8 years ago) and a sister-in-law (less than a year), I can say that I wouldn't want to resurrect them.  To me, it's not a normal thing.  I hope that they are at peace and I miss them.  But that's my perspective and I respect that others would feel differently.  And my perspective absolutely shapes my view of Laurel's actions.  And Oliver's last season...

 

That is an important aspect of the Lazarus Pit - fans of the comics have had discussions like this ever since it first showed up.  There is no single, correct answer.

[catrox14]

 

As a viewer who has lost a sister (8 years ago) and a sister-in-law (less than a year), I can say that I wouldn't want to resurrect them.  To me, it's not a normal thing

 

I'm sorry for your loss :(.  I lost my mother this year and yes she was elderly but she was basically my best friend in my entire life. I'm still dealing with her passing.  But if someone told me I could resurrect her but there will likely be negative consequences for her? Hell no I wouldn't do it. It's cruel.

 

To me, if Laurel was being asked to sell her soul for Sara's and someone could guarantee that Sara would come back intact, then I would probably not be as annoyed with Laurel's decision. But again this is not the case that we know of .

 

So to me it's just more of Laurel being selfish

[Chaser]

Because so much time had past, I thought there would have be a catalyst. Something would happen that Sara would need to be brought back for. I honestly didn't think Laurel would find out about the LP and be like 'Okay!'

 

Seriously, if I was Laurel my first call would be to Nyssa and ask why it wasn't used on Sara. 

[dtissagirl]

If I manage to stop getting the giggles every time I remember Laurel's perfectly manicured nails caressing the pine casket... it turns out I accept that Laurel's motivation is "because she can". She's seeing an opportunity to do something, she's ignoring the proverbial cons list, and if there's one thing they've been consistent with Laurel, is that she never thinks things through.

 

The problem is the writing is asking me to accept that "because Laurel can" is enough for me as a viewer -- and it just isn't. It's nowhere near enough, because contrary to Laurel, I'm worrying about what will the consequences be for Sara herself, and Thea, and Nyssa.

Edited October 15, 2015 by dtissagirl

[Primal Slayer]

I'm sorry for your loss :(. I lost my mother this year and yes she was elderly but she was basically my best friend in my entire life. I'm still dealing with her passing. But if someone told me I could resurrect her but there will likely be negative consequences for her? Hell no I wouldn't do it. It's cruel.

To me, if Laurel was being asked to sell her soul for Sara's and someone could guarantee that Sara would come back intact, then I would probably not be as annoyed with Laurel's decision. But again this is not the case that we know of .

So to me it's just more of Laurel being selfish

If i knew they would have to live the rest of their life with extreme side effects i may be more weary but the LP is still very new to the team and they don't know if this is something that will go away eventually somehow.

[apinknightmare]

I think it's a nice idea, but that the fucked-upedness of what I was doing would hit me hard once I started, you know, digging up a coffin.

[HighwayFlower]

If i knew they would have to live the rest of their life with extreme side effects i may be more weary but the LP is still very new to the team and they don't know if this is something that will go away eventually somehow.

Exactly. She doesn't know, and is still selfishly going forward anyway, with no idea or regard for the consequences and how it will effect Sara.

[catrox14]

If i knew they would have to live the rest of their life with extreme side effects i may be more weary but the LP is still very new to the team and they don't know if this is something that will go away eventually somehow.

 

Oliver said to all of them after Thea attacked Oliver in the lair in front of all of them, that he had been warned by fucking Malcolm Merlyn that something bad could happen as a result doing it but he didn't think it would be that bad. That should have stopped Oliver but it didn't and Thea was not even as dead as Sara.  So to me, that right there should have been enough for Laurel to check herself on her decision.

 

Why would she think Sara would be different?

[Primal Slayer]

It's selfish, no argument there but it is one of those things where some people are willing to take that risk.

Oliver said to all of them after Thea attacked Oliver in the lair in front of all of them, that he had been warned by fucking Malcolm Merlyn that something bad could happen as a result doing it but he didn't think it would be that bad. That should have stopped Oliver but it didn't and Thea was not even as dead as Sara. So to me, that right there should have been enough for Laurel to check herself on her decision.

Why would she think Sara would be different?

Laurel doesn't see Thea as permanently damaged which is enough for her to deal with the possible consequences since in her mind it won't be a forever type of situation. At least that's how i view her decision.

[writersblock51]

Oliver said to all of them after Thea attacked Oliver in the lair in front of all of them, that he had been warned by fucking Malcolm Merlyn that something bad could happen as a result doing it but he didn't think it would be that bad. That should have stopped Oliver but it didn't and Thea was not even as dead as Sara.  So to me, that right there should have been enough for Laurel to check herself on her decision.

 

Why would she think Sara would be different?

 

Which begs the question, for me: Who exactly does Laurel think will benefit from bringing Sara to the pit?  Sara? Quentin? Dinah?  Herself?  Who is she doing this for?

 

I had the same question for Oliver last season.  A follow up question would be - if you knew then what you know now, would you still do it?  It's a moot point but still a curious one.

[AyChihuahua]

So normally I would call BS on Laurel not knowing that Thea set that dude on fire, on purpose.  BUT, they apparently don't tell Laurel anything, and Lance thinks Oliver did it, so I doubt he'd mention it to Laurel, as I'm sure they've had the Oliver argument a billion times already. 

 

Also, is someone going to start wondering how Lance knew where Anarky was?  If through normal channels he'd have gone there with cops, but instead he quietly handed the address to TA.  I wonder if they'll start getting suspicious.

 

I had the same question for Oliver last season.  A follow up question would be - if you knew then what you know now, would you still do it?  It's a moot point but still a curious one.

They've dialed back Oliver's obsession with Thea so far this season (thank GOD), but I think he'd still do it.  I do agree that he probably would not dig her up after a year, but if she had been actually dead, but very recently, I think he'd still have done it.

I would love it if resurrecting Sara took away all the LP's mojo.  Imagine the pissed look on Malcolm's face, because you KNOW the first thing he did after making Nyssa kneel was soak away all his aches and pains.  Plus, simple way to take away the easy-out for death on the show.

Edited October 15, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[catrox14]

 

Laurel doesn't see Thea as permanently damaged which is enough for her to deal with the possible consequences since in her mind it won't be a forever type of situation. At least that's how i view her decision.

 

But that's not any less selfish. She is in her 'Laurel knows better than anyone else" mode again.

 

Laurel disregards Oliver's opinions when it suits her. She practically cajoles Oliver into coming back to help them and says they can't do it without him but then gets miffed when he tries to be the leader again. Then here, he tells her straight up that he messed up with this.  She doesn't need to know all of the information to see Thea is jacked up and that Oliver is admitting he underestimated it. Why would she think she would know better than Oliver about this?  If she is so convinced that it will be different for Sara then why is telling Thea to not tell Oliver?

[statsgirl]

My mother died a few years ago.  This morning I awoke dreaming that she was alive, and then I realized that she wasn't. Granted we were closer than Laurel and Sara (she called several times a day since she was widowed) but I might have been tempted if I could get her back.

Why did the effects with Thea start to be more apparent now?  We don't know that she wasn't breaking arms during the summer.  Laurel and Diggle were appropriately alarmed when the Queens were fighting BUT we have not seen any of their action, besides the premiere, when Oliver wasn't around.  We are assuming that Thea's aggression is a recent thing, coiciding with Oliver's return.  But he noticed she was a bit off the very first time he saw her fighting - it's just as easy, I think, to assume that she was like that for some time but Laurel and Diggle simply chalked it down to enthusiasm, adrenaline, etc.nt aspect of the Lazarus Pit - fans of the comics have had discussions like this ever since it first showed up.  There is no single, correct answer.

My fanwank is that it was there during the summer, growing, but Thea could control it and what she couldn't, Diggle and Laurel wrote off as youthful exuberance. It's worse now that Oliver is back in the same way that when a mother picks a young child up from school, the child falls apart in a crying fit.  He could hold it together among strangers but when someone who loves him even with bad behaviour, it's safe to fall apart.

 

 

Also, is someone going to start wondering how Lance knew where Anarky was?  If through normal channels he'd have gone there with cops, but instead he quietly handed the address to TA.  I wonder if they'll start getting suspicious.

The SCPD won't, given their general level of competence, and they'll just assume that the Green Arrow got the address on his own. But someone from TA should. This time they may ascribe it to Quentin figuring out the address based on police work but not thinking the police could do the job but if it keeps happening, someone (Laurel? Oliver? Diggle? Felicity?) should notice.  But then Diggle is too distracted with his own HIVE agenda.

[VCRTracking]

I had assumed Nyssa from the trailers would be the one to put Sara in the pit or Malcolm doing it as part of some evil plan. It would have been a better story for Laurel if she had done it and it failed and she had to learn a lesson.

[tangerine95]

I honestly think the writers don't care about how this makes Laurel look,they only want Sara back for the spinoff.The very fact that they are bringing Sara back undermines all they went through to make Laurel BC last season.They don't seem invested in the character at all.It's not like bringing Sara back was a planed storyline for Laurel when they killed her off and now thats all they are giving her.

There were so many ways to do this without making Laurel look totally insane.Or even if they wanted Laurel to be the one to do it,they could have had her show more concern about Thea or really make it about helping Thea.

Instead they made her look like she's using her which IMO is exactly what she is doing.They gave her a scene with Digg that only serves to make her a hypocrite because she's lying to the whole team even worse since Oliver trusted her to take care of Thea not take her back to the place of her trauma.She's also not telling Quentin about this proving she's learned nothing from lying to him about Sara dying last season.

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

Once again.  Please.  Do.  Not.  Post. About. Fandoms.  That means Laurel fans, Laurel haters, someone who once saw Katie Cassidy performing an interpretive mime dance at the Mall of America, etc. 

 

Your own reaction towards Laurel/Katie is fair game.  Other people's reactions are not.  

 

Fan talk leads to

[wingster55]

I honestly think the writers don't care about how this makes Laurel look,they only want Sara back for the spinoff.The very fact that they are bringing Sara back undermines all they went through to make Laurel BC last season.They don't seem invested in the character at all.It's not like bringing Sara back was a planed storyline for Laurel when they killed her off and now thats all they are giving her.

I would have to agree. Not well thought out at all.

I think maybe Rip Hunter should have been involved with her resurrection.

Edited October 16, 2015 by wingster55

[HighwayFlower]

I will never understand the show when it comes to Laurel.

It's like they know she doesn't work, so they stopped caring or even trying to fix her, yet they refuse to get rid of her.

[looptab]

I believe this is another instance in which the writers simply can't make the right estimation of how a certain course of action will be perceived by the audience. They were in a similar mess last season, when people complained about Laurel not telling Quentin about Sara. This is not different. I don't think they are willingly trying to butcher her character, the exact opposite: they are trying too hard.

 

Many of you came up with different ways to bring Sara back. They chose this road to give it emotional resonance, since Laurel is her sister, and they hoped, they so hoped this would be it: finally people would start seeing her for the great, caring, loving, person that they think she is. She is bringing Sara back! Rejoyce! She does love her sister so much.

 

Except, like last year, they fail to understand that a large chunk of audience just can't empathize with Laurel. Just like last year they thought the audience would understand her struggle and the burden she was carrying keeping Sara's death a secret, and failed, they've failed again. And it's an even trickier situation, because it involves the death of a loved one, and every single person in the audience has his own personal experience with that, and a precise idea of what they would do, and their reaction to this particular decision. For once, it would appear, it's not even a matter of fandoms, like "Laurel haters, hate it/Laurel fans, love it". 

 

But who knows, maybe after Sara is back it will all be forgotten?

[kismet]

Personally, I can empathize with LL. I can understand wanting to bring back a loved one. Everyone's response to death and losing a loved one is unique to them. Like others have mentioned on this board there is no way the writers will ever be able to write a story that accommodates everyone's relationship to grief, guilt & death - esp in relation to the Lance sisters. And I do see the debate about why and if to use the LP would be intriguing from so many levels to explore on the show. But the show did not do that. LL was like a mouse in a psych experiment. The lightbulb went off in her head and she went running down the maze for the cheese. It was a pure conditioned response. No questions asked. No pausing to think about it. No time spent to discuss it with her friends & family, about what plan of course it. None of that, maybe there will be some next week. But if that is the case, wait until next week to dig up the body. Instead they showed her acting on impulses and extremes. Sane people do not dig up bodies without thinking about it unless they are trying to cover up or solve a crime.

 

I can not get behind the way the writers went from LL finding out about the LP and less than 20min later designing a plan that 1) manipulates or uses TQ; 2) uses a LP that has been warned to cause damage; 3) does not research said LP (even calling Nyssa for a little info); 4) does not consult her father about even what SL might have thought about being able to come back (no need to even reference the LP if his heart could not take it) & 5) actually has her dig up the body in nice clothes & I think heels. At least change to some dark work clothes to shovel it out. It was just such an ill-conceived plan that makes me think either they want me to believe LL is this reckless and controlled by her emotions (perhaps a litte cray cray herself) or they are really out of ways to write her as a sympathetic/empathetic character.

 

Do I wish DD, Rip Hunter, or MM had been the ones to bring SL back from the dead? Yes, because its neater for the plot and the characters. Do I think having LL bring her back was intentional for emotional or character reasons? Yes. But since their choice was intentional, than for cripes sakes at least make it plausible & more positive to LL.

[dtissagirl]

Oh, definitely. Wanting a loved one back from death is pretty normal, it's just that nobody IRL has had the chance to do it. The crazy bananapants psycho part is the gravedigging. That's just nasty.

[Primal Slayer]

I think that would be the only way to get to the body....though how the hell did they stay so clean?

[kismet]

There are respectful ways to exhume the dead. I don't think sneaking into a cemetery in the middle of the night in your nice jeans, leather jacket & heels is the most respectful way. What they did was in some ways a form of grave robbing or by definition body snatching.

 

Gravedigging is actually the act of digging the initial grave.

[dtissagirl]

They could have skipped the grave entirely. Show a private jet and a casket being loaded, and Laurel slipping some money to some ugly looking dudes she paid to do the nasty job. Intention is the same.

 

We got a scene of Laurel on a grave for empty shock value. So I'm attaching meaning to it: chick is a loony psycho. Which at least makes her funny now.

[AyChihuahua]

They could have gone with her just being emotionally reckless and cray cray about it, except that there hasn't been an inkling of anything like that for nearly a year.  Out-of-show, that is because the writers had no intention of bringing back Sara Lance until it turned out they needed her for their new notATOM (because Ray Palmer sucks and cannot anchor a solo show) project.  So basically, Laurel was upset at first but has been over it for like ten months, so it MAKES NO SENSE.

 

Also, basically everyone who's lost a loved one thinks about getting them back.  But I still submit that very few people would ACTUALLY dig up a the person's grave and haul the body halfway around the world to throw it into a Jacuzzi of questionable magic, knowing that at least one other person who was similarly thrown into said Jacuzzi is having mental issues.

 

I also am annoyed that this is all so casual for Laurel so far.  I mean, Willow had to learn a big time bad juju spell and kill a FAWN to bring back Buffy, and Oliver had to agree to become the head of a group of evil murderers (NEVER GOING TO STOP HATING THAT WHOLE STORYLINE) just to prevent his sister's death.  Laurel was like "Hey, I think I'm going to resurrect my dead sister!" twenty minutes after hearing about the LP, wore fashionable clothes while demonstrating she's the world's most proficient gravedigger, and didn't even have to remove one of the 20 rings she was wearing, or so much as chip her perfect manicure.  This is messing with the natural order of like EVERYTHING and it's as big a deal to her as picking out a new rug at IKEA.

[catrox14]

They could have skipped the grave entirely. Show a private jet and a casket being loaded, and Laurel slipping some money to some ugly looking dudes she paid to do the nasty job. Intention is the same.

 

We got a scene of Laurel on a grave for empty shock value. So I'm attaching meaning to it: chick is a loony psycho. Which at least makes her funny now.

 

 

You know, as much as think this is the stupidest thing Laurel has done, I actually have a modicum of respect for her for doing the dirty work herself. 

[dtissagirl]

You know, as much as think this is the stupidest thing Laurel has done, I actually have a modicum of respect for her for doing the dirty work herself. 

 

Haha, and here I thought you would agree that she's gone completely around the bend. :)

[catrox14]

Haha, and here I thought you would agree that she's gone completely around the bend. :)

 

HA!

 

Oh don't get me wrong. She's gone way round the bend, and circled back and gone around the bend again.  That doesn't mean I respect her like at all but you know, if you're gonna go crazy at least she's not paying a bunch of thugs to do her dirty work.  I just hope she didn't cajole poor Thea into literally getting her hands dirty.

 

I think it kind of serves her right to open the casket and see her sister's rotting corpse.  Hopefully she'll have nightmares for the rest of her life for this.

Edited October 16, 2015 by catrox14

[calliope1975]

They could have gone with her just being emotionally reckless and cray cray about it, except that there hasn't been an inkling of anything like that for nearly a year.  Out-of-show, that is because the writers had no intention of bringing back Sara Lance until it turned out they needed her for their new notATOM (because Ray Palmer sucks and cannot anchor a solo show) project.  So basically, Laurel was upset at first but has been over it for like ten months, so it MAKES NO SENSE.

 

Also, basically everyone who's lost a loved one thinks about getting them back.  But I still submit that very few people would ACTUALLY dig up a the person's grave and haul the body halfway around the world to throw it into a Jacuzzi of questionable magic, knowing that at least one other person who was similarly thrown into said Jacuzzi is having mental issues.

 

I also am annoyed that this is all so casual for Laurel so far.  I mean, Willow had to learn a big time bad juju spell and kill a FAWN to bring back Buffy, and Oliver had to agree to become the head of a group of evil murderers (NEVER GOING TO STOP HATING THAT WHOLE STORYLINE) just to prevent his sister's death.  Laurel was like "Hey, I think I'm going to resurrect my dead sister!" twenty minutes after hearing about the LP, wore fashionable clothes while demonstrating she's the world's most proficient gravedigger, and didn't even have to remove one of the 20 rings she was wearing, or so much as chip her perfect manicure.  This is messing with the natural order of like EVERYTHING and it's as big a deal to her as picking out a new rug at IKEA.

 

I think the probably lack of consequences is what bothers me the most. Thea is suffering mentally. Oliver, as you said, agreed to join a group of crazy people and be the new protege to the Head Crazy, and he murdered a few folk. Laurel will suffer emotional pain, which isn't less valid, but kind of is less valid to what Sara will probably suffer.

 

I'm not asking for her to be flogged, but since I can guess that everything will work out and everyone will forgive her, it grates.

[AyChihuahua]

I'm annoyed at both the front-end lack of gravitas about it and the probable back-end lack of serious/long-lasting consequences TO LAUREL. 

[dtissagirl]

And as Laura Hurley pointed in her review, they're totes framing this as Laurel "saving" Sara, and WHAT THE EVEN FUCK.

[catrox14]

And as Laura Hurley pointed in her review, they're totes framing this as Laurel "saving" Sara, and WHAT THE EVEN FUCK.

 

I think this show's problem is that they are kind of trying to take a page out of Supernatural by bringing people back from the dead, but not having a consequence to the person doing the bringing back. I mean, I guess Oliver did to a degree for a little while but so far Laurel has not. The consequence is to the resurrected.

 

The difference is those Winchester fellas do stupid things and we shout at them but at the very least they built up the relationships in the show to make it believable and we could have some sympathy for their extremely questionable actions came out of established and clear love/attachment/dysfunction. They suffer dire consequences for those choices.

 

Laurel's story does not sell any of that to even help me be sympathetic to her. At least Oliver understands he probably made a mistake. The question is would he do it again knowing what he knows now.

[AyChihuahua]

Supernatural got ridiculous after awhile, but when John did it for Dean (and Dean wasn't actually deaddead), he had to trade his soul, and when Dean did it for Sam he had to trade his soul, so it was pretty darn heavy.  Even in S4 it was an actual angel bringing Dean back, so still pretty serious. 

 

To be clear, I'm not disagreeing with you.  More yearning for the days when SPN was really good.

Edited October 16, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[dtissagirl]

They also haven't established any kind of afterlife canon in this universe. Is there a hell? Heaven? Are souls a thing on Arrow? None of that has ever been mentioned. So there's no way this is a rescue, but they're gonna frame it as such, because That's So Laurel.

[catrox14]

Supernatural got ridiculous after awhile, but when John did it for Dean (and Dean wasn't actually deaddead), he had to trade his soul, and when Dean did it for Sam he had to trade his soul, so it was pretty darn heavy.  Even in S4 it was an actual angel bringing Dean back, so still pretty serious. 

 

To be clear, I'm not disagreeing with you.  More yearning for the days when SPN was really good.

 

Yup. Hence dire consequences.  LOL I still like SPN but yeah, I get what you mean.

 

It's just a silly mess to do this on Arrow, in spite of the coolness of having the Lazarus Pit they didn't build up enough of everything around it's mythology to make it more than just HEY LOOK a way to bring back a character we should have NEVER killed off.

 

Sigh.

[tarotx]

Now that Constantine is a character on Arrow, I would say there is probably going to be talk of some type of Afterlife.

[catrox14]

Now that Constantine is a character on Arrow, I would say there is probably going to be talk of some type of Afterlife.

 

That sure would have been nice before Oliver dipped Thea in the pit. IMO Oliver would have exchanged himself for her in a minute.  I swear if they give Laurel that option to make it a great sacrifice but didn't do that for Oliver....

 

(aside from not killing the main character)...I will throw my remote at the television.

 

Of course, if Constantine gives that option, it will probably be Nyssa that would offer her soul for Sara's but since Laurel started the whole thing she'll still be the hero.  You watch. LOL

[Primal Slayer]

There are respectful ways to exhume the dead. I don't think sneaking into a cemetery in the middle of the night in your nice jeans, leather jacket & heels is the most respectful way. What they did was in some ways a form of grave robbing or by definition body snatching.

Gravedigging is actually the act of digging the initial grave.

Like what? Someone has to dig the body up. I can't see anyway of getting to the body as respectful. These people break the law every day, digging up a body isn't going to make them think that they crossed any lines.

[statsgirl]

They gave her a scene with Digg that only serves to make her a hypocrite because she's lying to the whole team even worse since Oliver trusted her to take care of Thea not take her back to the place of her trauma.She's also not telling Quentin about this proving she's learned nothing from lying to him about Sara dying last season.

I liked the scene in the graveyard (yes, I really did). What bothers me the most is that Oliver trusted Laurel to look after Thea on their "spa weekend" and he left the apartment believing that she would.  Laurel can lie to Oliver all she wants, I don't mind but when he thinks that she's taking care of Thea and really she's taking Thea back to the place she fears, that's a line crossed.

 

I also note that Oliver trusted Diggle to look after his little sister when he left Starling City and Diggle failed to notice that she was going cray cray and not "aggressive".  No wonder Oliver is overly protective of Thea, she lies to him and the people he trusts to look after her do too.

[Sakura12]

Like I said, my issue with this is Laurel is probably not going to face any long term consequences for her stupid action. Because she has never faced any long term consequences for her stupid actions before. It always worked out okay for her in the end. Sara will be the one facing the long term consequences of Laurel's decision to bring her back. While Laurel gets to be on Team Arrow and have a better relationship with Oliver and Sara (according the EP's). I fail to see how that's possible after this. Sara's going to be even more messed up and Oliver should be angry at Laurel for taking his suffering the effects of the LP sister to dig up the grave of the woman she murdered and disturbing Sara's peace. 

 

Oliver knew Sara better than Laurel, because I don't think Laurel even knows half of what Sara went through during her time away. Oliver also knows that Sara thought of death as freedom. 

 

If we can't get any of the main cast mad at Laurel, I hope Constantine rips into her for what she did. I might take some satisfaction in that. 

Edited October 17, 2015 by Sakura12

[AyChihuahua]

If we can't get any of the main cast mad at Laurel, I hope Constantine rips into her for what she did. I might take some satisfaction in that. 

I definitely think John Constantine would rip into her, but I don't know if these writers will write it that way.  Although who knows, because I literally have no idea what they are doing with Laurel.  

[tangerine95]

I liked the scene in the graveyard (yes, I really did). What bothers me the most is that Oliver trusted Laurel to look after Thea on their "spa weekend" and he left the apartment believing that she would.  Laurel can lie to Oliver all she wants, I don't mind but when he thinks that she's taking care of Thea and really she's taking Thea back to the place she fears, that's a line crossed.

 

I also note that Oliver trusted Diggle to look after his little sister when he left Starling City and Diggle failed to notice that she was going cray cray and not "aggressive".  No wonder Oliver is overly protective of Thea, she lies to him and the people he trusts to look after her do too.

Its not like Oliver never lies to Laurel,he does, but this is about Thea and her to say the least fragile mental state which can only get worse from going to NP and IMO Laurel really crossed the line.It doesn't help that they keep showing us not telling Laurel things is the right thing to do.She finds out Oliver is the Arrow and almost tells Quentin so she can get him out of jail.She finds out about Malcolm killing Sara and goes after him almost getting herself killed.She finds out about the LP and digs up her dead for a year sister.Its like they want us to think Laurel shouldn't be told things because she can't handle it in a rational way.That's why I get Oliver keeping things from her,he doesn't do it to be selfish she has just been

proven she can't be trusted.But she lied because she knows he would try to stop her from at least taking Thea,that is just manipulative to me.

I feel like both Diggle and Laurel not noticing Thea being violent was a plot thing because they needed them to see it in this episode.Yeah Oliver does have good reason to worry about her.Everytime he feels something is wrong he was proven to be right.But Thea tends to push him away and lash out,I hope they move past that and talk through things in a more mature way.

[kismet]

Its not like Oliver never lies to Laurel,he does, but this is about Thea and her to say the least fragile mental state which can only get worse from going to NP and IMO Laurel really crossed the line.It doesn't help that they keep showing us not telling Laurel things is the right thing to do.She finds out Oliver is the Arrow and almost tells Quentin so she can get him out of jail.She finds out about Malcolm killing Sara and goes after him almost getting herself killed.She finds out about the LP and digs up her dead for a year sister.Its like they want us to think Laurel shouldn't be told things because she can't handle it in a rational way.That's why I get Oliver keeping things from her,he doesn't do it to be selfish she has just been

proven she can't be trusted.But she lied because she knows he would try to stop her from at least taking Thea,that is just manipulative to me.

I said something similar in the relationship thread. It's almost canonical both in show & in the audience that there are reasons we don't tell LL things. She can't be trusted with certain things and secrets. There is a reason the "oh Laurel" GIF exists.

 

I will actually go as far to say that I'm ready to blame LL for nobody being around to look after TQ because she ran back into that building and we lost Tommy. It's digging way back, but why not dig? Let's be honest the only one that ever really looked after TQ consistently out of pure love without distractions or agendas was Tommy. Both LL's stupidity and the writer's ballsy bravado took him away from us leaving TQ without someone to look after her.

 

I definitely think John Constantine would rip into her, but I don't know if these writers will write it that way.  Although who knows, because I literally have no idea what they are doing with Laurel.  

Someone better. But then again, no one did about the lying to QL - until QL yelled at her and by then it was spun by the writers to make him look bad because he had fallen so far off the rails. So who knows what the writers will do with their little experiment known as LL?

[Primal Slayer]

They need to write more scenes like they did in 1x23 or wherever. Laurel was selfless and risked her life to try to get her clients papers but of course she had to lose Tommy which sucked. They really need to have CNRI rise from the ashes.

[Happy Harpy]

They need to write more scenes like they did in 1x23 or wherever. Laurel was selfless and risked her life to try to get her clients papers but of course she had to lose Tommy which sucked. They really need to have CNRI rise from the ashes.

With all due respect, no. No, no, no, I think it would be the worst thing to do.

Laurel going into the CNRI building (not wherever they keep hard, official evidence in Starling City) to save papers, meaning superfluous items in our digital age  whereas her father and Oliver told her with unmistakable seriousness to stay the hell out of the Glades is imo the tipping moment when more people began to dislike her for something she did, rather than for her attitude of for Oliver's stupidity when it came to her.

It was intended to look selfless, it came off merely as criminally stupid, imo.

And "she had to lose Tommy" is a perspective akin imo to "everybody leaves me (yeah, you mean they're the ones who died and not you?)" of hallway scene fame, because in another perspective, it's considered as "Tommy died because of Laurel's moronic move" or "Thea and Oliver lost Tommy because of Laurel" (although Malcolm is the first responsible, of course).

 

The problem, imo, is on the opposite that they go on writing Laurel like this, as I think the grave-undigging showed this week. I'm sure it was intended to look selfless, I'm not certain it was vastly received that way and for me, it wasn't written in a way that allowed it.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[Primal Slayer]

If the files were digital (yeah they SHOULDVE been, but this is Arrow) then yeah her going back would've been stupid but they weren't and she didn't want all of that stuff that could help all her clients go to waste. .

[catrox14]

Forever amused that KC only knows one way to stand. Every emotion earns the same stance.

 

She is such a great actress.

 

I thought that was just a thing she did when she was playing Ruby on Supernatural. But nope. It's KC.  My gosh.