The Enemy Within - General Discussion

[alvajon]

Boring...... Not surprised to see the on-going Shepherd/Tal thing, though. 

Edited April 9, 2019 by alvajon

[Happy Harpy]

Oh, another terrorist helper who was only misled and "wanted to do the right thing"? 🙄 Listen, show, since you pretend to realism and seriousness, it's high time you portray terrorists for what they are : Losers, often common criminals, with a small dick and a God complex, or pure fanatics, with a small dick and a God complex. Thank you kindly.

So, they want to catch Tal in person and they don't find a better idea than sending someone he knows, someone everybody knows since she's "the most hated woman in America", as they just reminded everyone in the "previously on". Okay. Wait, no, I couldn't get past this one. Another thing,  (I FF'ed some parts so I might have missed something but) if Tal has another mole in the team, why does he want to neutralize the FBI through bureaucratic shenanigans? Isn't that plain stupid counter-productive? Again, please tell me it's a gambit and he has no mole, just wanted to confuse the enemy.

Raza Jaffrey was relegated in the background again (grr) yet he seems now comfortable in his role and I'd like it if he had more of one. Of course, I wish that when asked about the brilliant plan, Daniel answered; "It's a great idea because she's going to show her true colors and we'll be rid of her for good" which would have been in character since  he's always been the one who questioned Keaton re: Erica but hey, it's this show.

I have to give props to Morris Chestnut for weathering quite graciously the ridiculousness of the writing that had him play the exposition fairy during an emotional scene at the bedside of his wounded teammate. He also instilled more warmth in his character, which is an excellent thing. Sorry, though, I'm tired of the dead fiancée.

It was Braggs and Pettigrew's turn to get more to do, and please let's not do that again. I'm a shipper at heart, and mine didn't even flutter. It came completely out of left field in this episode whereas I had expected some shiptease between them since Pettigrew's introduction scene. Was their first scene considered flirting? Because I heard no innuendo and saw no spark. "I grew to care about her", why not "I want to have babies with her" while they're into heavy "tell don't show"? And again, it might be the direction's fault, but the acting was just not good either.

About this, I noticed that the actors often keep the same expression/pose during info dump scenes, they're like frozen in one reaction shot for way too long, up to the point where it's a tad jarring. It has to be a direction/editing thing because they all do this.

I have so much trust in the writers that I wondered if anyone was going to call out Erica on being a Jupiter-sized hypocrite. Keaton did, unexpectedly, hence the best and most realistic moment of the episode, and maybe of Erica's entire arc since the pilot. Never say never, they gave some flaws to Spy Sue. Did the daughter give her the phone? Is there a plot here? Recurring question, which is the main issue. 

Edited April 9, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[preeya]

5 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

Oh, another terrorist helper who was only misled and "wanted to do the right thing"? 🙄 Listen, show, since you pretend to realism and seriousness, it's high time you portray terrorists for what they are : Losers, often common criminals, with a small dick and a God complex, or pure fanatics, with a small dick and a God complex. Thank you kindly.

So, they want to catch Tal in person and they don't find a better idea than sending someone he knows, someone everybody knows since she's "the most hated woman in America", as they just reminded everyone in the "previously on". Okay. Wait, no, I couldn't get past this one. Another thing,  (I FF'ed some parts so I might have missed something but) if Tal has another mole in the team, why does he want to neutralize the FBI through bureaucratic shenanigans? Isn't that plain stupid counter-productive? Again, please tell me it's a gambit and he has no mole, just wanted to confuse the enemy.

Raza Jaffrey was relegated in the background again (grr) yet he seems now comfortable in his role and I'd like it if he had more of one. Of course, I wish that when asked about the brilliant plan, Daniel answered; "It's a great idea because she's going to show her true colors and we'll be rid of her for good" which would have been in character since  he's always been the one who questioned Keaton re: Erica but hey, it's this show.

I have to give props to Morris Chestnut for weathering quite graciously the ridiculousness of the writing that had him play the exposition fairy during an emotional scene at the bedside of his wounded teammate. He also instilled more warmth in his character, which is an excellent thing. Sorry, though, I'm tired of the dead fiancée.

It was Braggs and Pettigrew's turn to get more to do, and please let's not do that again. I'm a shipper at heart, and mine didn't even flutter. It came completely out of left field in this episode whereas I had expected some shiptease between them since Pettigrew's introduction scene. Was their first scene considered flirting? Because I heard no innuendo and saw no spark. "I grew to care about her", why not "I want to have babies with her" while they're into heavy "tell don't show"? And again, it might be the direction's fault, but the acting was just not good either.

About this, I noticed that the actors often keep the same expression/pose during info dump scenes, they're like frozen in one reaction shot for way too long, up to the point where it's a tad jarring. It has to be a direction/editing thing because they all do this.

I have so much trust in the writers that I wondered if anyone was going to call out Erica on being a Jupiter-sized hypocrite. Keaton did, unexpectedly, hence the best and most realistic moment of the episode, and maybe of Erica's entire arc since the pilot. Never say never, they gave some flaws to Spy Sue. Did the daughter give her the phone? Is there a plot here? Recurring question, which is the main issue. 

In other words↑↑:   THE SHOW SUCKS, THE ACTING SUCKS, THE PLOT SUCKS, THE WRITING SUCKS! 

Just saying.

I tried, but I'm out.

[tennisgurl]

I mean, I thought the idea of her being an actual spy that was doing actual bad things for selfish reasons, who was caught and then wanted to make it better, would be a more interesting show than the whole "I did it for my daughter" thing, so I am actually somewhat interested in the idea of Erica actually working with Tal. I mean, I know it will turn out that she isnt "really" working with him, but its something at least. 

This show needs some more forward motion, it feels like we are already in a pattern. Team gets close to Tal, Tal gets away. They stop one of his evil plans, but he manages to sneak off to evil another day. 

[tanita]

There had to be more to the story the "I did it for my daughter" - Erika has been far too shifty since the start of the show. And I'm not surprised that she probably worked for/with Tal in some capacity, undercover or was flipped. Besides her story, which I find has some dramatic and suspenseful potencial, the left of the show and cast leaves me bored.

[weathered1]

I do like the idea broached in the previews for the next episode that, much as most suspected, the whole "I did it for my daughter!!!!" story was either a lie or an incomplete version of the truth. That said, again, it's kind of a dead end premise-wise because if she was flipped (and maybe then flipped again? Who knows.), she still ultimately did what she was accused of doing, which leads right back to one of the main problems with the entire foundation of the show. 

Other than that, this episode almost had a slightly different tone to me, in that it seemed more like it was trying to draw in new viewers by catching people up more than the other episodes have done, going out of their way to have characters' names mentioned, giving said characters new-ish beats to play - Daniel getting to be briefly snarky, Keaton showing more warmth and humanity, and the whole whatever that was supposed to be with Bragg and Pettigrew. Speaking of the latter, I fully agree with Happy Harpy - I don't know what they are trying to do with that dynamic, but it's not working; it's so stilted and awkward and forced, and there's no there there. Still, as someone who liked Mills (and McG) on The Brave, I was glad to see him have slightly more to do, but I do hope they drop this thing with Pettigrew before it goes anywhere. 

I also agree that enough is enough re: the dearly departed fiancee. We're beaten over the head every single week with mentions of "my daughter!!" and "my fiancee!" and it's just too much. 

I had a real issue with the scene where everyone self-righteously scolded Erica for wanting to potentially sacrifice the possibly evil or possibly just naive/stupid/venal guy in order to capture the murderous terrorist. Are these people a bunch of kindergartners? Sure, the idea of sacrificing someone's life isn't a pleasant one, but it's not as if guy didn't assume a certain risk by, say, stealing info from the NSA. Also, in terms of how many people Tal has killed and wants to kill in the future? The whole conversation was (or should have been) a non-starter, but the writers sure dug in their heels and made the entire group seem like a boring, ridiculous combination of petulant Pollyannas. 

That said, I am glad that Keaton called out Erica's blatant hypocrisy. However, she does know better than any of them that saving one life and therefore letting Tal roam free can have immediate, deadly consequences. 

This episode had a lot of problems (and there was even a scene where I thought JCarp uncharacteristically didn't do all that well [it might have been the scene where she was telling Keaton that the op was a complete failure and then she raised her fist in a really awkward manner]), but I suppose that I'm hopeful that next week will shake things up for the better. Do I actually think that will happen? Most likely not, but . . . hope springs eternal, I guess.

[preeya]

2 hours ago, weathered1 said:

but I suppose that I'm hopeful that next week will shake things up for the better. Do I actually think that will happen? Most likely not, but . . . hope springs eternal, I guess.

 

 

Based on this ↑, I guess I'll stick it out for one more week.

Edited April 10, 2019 by preeya

[Dowel Jones]

In the scene where she meets the hacker by the waterfalls, she picks up a wire or something from the rail as she leaves.  I didn't rewatch, but how was that significant, as the camera focused directly on it for a second?

Also, note to FBI.  If you want to have a good chance at catching your suspect, try shutting off the siren on your giant black SUV.  And doesn't anyone pull over for said SUV?

[tanita]

5 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

In the scene where she meets the hacker by the waterfalls, she picks up a wire or something from the rail as she leaves.  I didn't rewatch, but how was that significant, as the camera focused directly on it for a second?

She used that wire to unlock a drawer in the FBI command center and steal a burner cell phone. Which she used at the end of the episode to called that KBG agent and asked to be connected to Tal. 

[eat]

Just when I thought I’d let this show go it brings on Lev Gorn! He deserves better but I’m a fan so I’ll be back for at least one more week. 

[doLLish]

8 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Also, note to FBI.  If you want to have a good chance at catching your suspect, try shutting off the siren on your giant black SUV.  And doesn't anyone pull over for said SUV?

This annoyed me beyond belief.

[Dowel Jones]

3 hours ago, tanita said:

She used that wire to unlock a drawer in the FBI command center and steal a burner cell phone. Which she used at the end of the episode to called that KBG agent and asked to be connected to Tal. 

Thanks, I missed that completely.  I just handwaved the cell phone scene at the end, figuring that she's such a ninja savant puzzle master that she just picked it up somewhere.

[JasmineFlower]

So the call at the end after the repeated chastising of Keaton for not being able to make the tough choices that she herself couldn't make all means that seems to be hypocrite Erica has been lying all along about "doing it for her daughter"? Is that supposed to be my takeaway from the episode? If so, I hope the next chapter is not anything too drawn out where it seems like she's working for Tal. Cause you know it's gonna wind up being she's still with the CIA and this is an undercover operation of some kind where they orchestrated her working with the FBI unbeknownst to Keaton. I hope I'm wrong and it's something different and original, but thus far, this show has never been as clever as it thinks it is.

If this gets another season, they need to bring some new writers in. The character development on this show is sorely lacking.

[preeya]

4 hours ago, eat said:

Just when I thought I’d let this show go it brings on Lev Gorn! He deserves better but I’m a fan so I’ll be back for at least one more week. 

Ahh, yeah Arkady from The Americans.

[BaskingsharkGTX]

This is starting to reach Austin Powers levels of idiocy. I think NBC actually meant it to be a satirical comedy called Generic Network Espionage Show. Either that or a drinking game. We are now at the point where I can't actually suspend disbelief for a single moment. I just watch while thinking constant MST3K-style troll-thoughts about every aspect of the writing and production. I'm pretty sure that's not what they were shooting for. 

In no particular order;

JCarp is doing her makeup in the van before going to meet the Manbun Hacker. 

Pettigrew: "You're trying to look like the NSA woman, but you're a known figure?"

Correct, Pettigrew. She is, in fact, The Most Hated Woman in America™ but don't worry - nobody recognized her on the last three occasions when she went out in public so they probably won't this time either.

JCarp: "I don't have to look like her, I just have to not look like me!"

Then she went out looking exactly like herself.

The dialogue in this episode was absolutely horrendous. Awful, AWFUL exposition from the Blonde Woman and Morris and while I did greatly enjoy the latter's verbal smackdown of JCarp and her hypocrisy, the ensuing dialogue about who was God and who wasn't (or something) was so abstract it could have been lifted from a Bergman movie. 

Ditto Tal's meeting with his Generic Evil Politician Crony.

"I can assure you everything is going to plan."

"You assure me? You give me your assurances?"

Uh, yeah, Tal, that's what he said. Be happy you have been assured of his assurances and that you got to make an actual appearance this week, instead of just skulking around offscreen making Sinister Phonecalls.

And Blonde Woman was talking about her tech again. At great length and in great detail. While all the other characters stood around nodding politely and thinking "God, Blonde Woman, we know you have no social life and nothing else to talk about and probably just go home and feed your many cats and drink wine straight from the box while using Microsoft AI to make deepfake wedding videos of yourself and Morris but shut up about your tracker/scanner/financial transaction finder locator magic thing and just find Tal. Then join Tinder."

Of course, she only kinda sorta found Tal. And then only kinda sorta enough to almost catch him so he could get away and there could be more episodes. And that was in spite of Tal transferring money with "KO" as the reference which, as we were told, stood for "Kill Order." Handy tip, kids, when paying off your hitman, always write a nice clear universally-understood acronym in the "notes" field on the check in case you forget why you wrote it come tax time.

But the piece de resistance was probably Stubble Guy confirming that there WILL be a lame will-they-won't-they relationship between him and Pettigrew by talking about his feeeeeeelings for her while she was out cold, a trope that hasn't been used in a TV show for about 11 whole minutes. And then Morris came in and told Stubble Guy he should tell Pettigrew how he feeeeeeeeeeels about her and Stubble Guy was like "No, I can't, because that would be how an actual human might behave and then we wouldn't be able to string this out and have a cliffhanger where she almost finds out and/or has to choose between saving me and stopping Tal at the end of the season and maybe get three or four people to actually care and tune in to the S2 premiere to see what happens if by some miracle we actually get renewed." and then there was A BEAT as he and Morris shared a MOMENT where the air between them hung thick with parallels to Morris' tragic lost relationship with his tragic Dead Fiancee who is tragically dead and then Stubble Guy went to get coffee. 

I also enjoyed Stubble Guy's delivery of the fresh and sparkling line "Stay with me." when Pettigrew was shot. It was a most unusual choice to have it sound like a vague afterthought he'd had while scanning the horizon as if looking to see whether the line for the mens' room had gotten any shorter.

Speaking of acting choices, JCarp was doing some prime scenery-chewing this episode. Eyes were narrowed then opened WIDE, nostrils were flared, lips were pursed and drawn back, cheeks were scrunched and flexed, sideways glares and glances were... given sideways. This was particularly noticeable in that last scene in her dungeon where she and Morris were talking about how INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT it is to catch Tal and how it will probably require LOTS OF PEOPLE TO DIE (but not the Manbun Hacker) and fingernails may not get blood on them but everyone may SWIM in it. Even though they could just have gone and looked at the security camera footage from their building, realized that whoever came from the White House to move Tal's operative out of their custody might well be a(nother) Tal mole, ID'd him as he left the building and investigated him and made him lead them right to Tal.

That dungeon scene was also very weirdly lit. It looked like Morris only had half a bottom lip and was incredibly distracting.

It is also very remiss of these people not to search JCarp when she is returned to her dungeon, especially since they put GIANT SHACKLES on her for when she moves round the building. And lucky for her that the dungeon has cell reception. Although if it didn't, she could probably build a fully-functioning cell tower/signal booster using a paperclip, a piece of discarded chewing gum and her bellybutton lint.

Aw, Melanie Mayron directed this episode. I loved Slap Her, She's French.

Oh, and Task Raven. Task Raven????!!!!! I mean, SERIOUSLY? It's called Task Rabbit because rabbits hop around a lot and seem busy-busy. Ravens just... hang out in trees, cawing and occasionally stealing shiny stuff. Nobody is going to call their site Task Raven. 

Quoth the task raven, "This show sucks".

Edited April 11, 2019 by BaskingsharkGTX
I just realized I actually remembered Pettigrew's name this week!

[Dowel Jones]

1 hour ago, BaskingsharkGTX said:

"You assure me? You give me your assurances?"

Right there would have been a good place for Dennis Haysbert do a voiceover.

[Brian Cronin]

There was a moment where Bragg was tussling with a bad guy where I legit couldn't tell them apart ("Is the bad guy winning?"). That's how crazy generic these characters are.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Brian Cronin

[BaskingsharkGTX]

4 hours ago, Brian Cronin said:

There was a moment where Bragg was tussling with a bad guy where I legit couldn't tell them apart ("Is the bad guy winning?"). That's how crazy generic these characters are.

So much about this show is just lazy. (See my comment above about "Task Raven" for an example - like put 2 mins of effort into thinking up a non-stupid name?) This is another example. You know you have a fight scene with a tall, dark-haired white regular actor. At least cast a short, blond guy as the villain in the scene?

[GodsBeloved]

On 3/28/2019 at 2:57 PM, Dowel Jones said:

Manny say whaaat?

Stop it. Just stop it! LOL

[alvajon]

Basking shark -- you should be a writer... love your posts.

[sempervivum]

Thanks, show, for rehashing the origin story, which we pretty much already knew. I now actually care even less about Erica than I did before seeing all the gory details.

I was happy to see Commander Taylor from The Closer (and Major Crimes) as Keaton's almost-father-in-law, though.

[Maverick]

 So they tried to fake us out with last week's preview, making us think Erica had been playing the long con on Tal's orders only to find out she  was offered a deal and turned it down.   Now they're making us think that after everything she's been through she's going to give in and work with her mortal enemy.  Nice try, but I can see the reveal this is all her play to capture Tal coming from a mile away.

 Perhaps the most damning thing I can say about this show is that it makes me miss its predecessor, Manifest. 

[weathered1]

Here I was hoping (but not expecting) this episode to be better, yet all it did was bring one of its biggest issues into stark relief: why on earth aren't they giving Raza Jaffrey more to do? 

The fatal flaw of the episode is, of course, the fact that we already knew pretty much all of the major points. In fact, we've known that information since before the show even began courtesy of so much being spoiled in the promos! 

Erica ostensibly accepting Tal's offer three years after the fact is certainly part of a wholly transparent plan to get Tal once and for all, which brings to mind yet another question: why, over the course of the past three years, hasn't Super Evil, Murderous Terrorist Tal tried to take Erica out? He doesn't have a problem placing his operatives wherever he needs them, and he's apparently quite skilled at planting almost ubiquitous moles wherever he likes, yet in all that time, he didn't do a thing to permanently silence the one person/agent who knows the most about him? Really? 

Barring that, he didn't kill "my daughter!!" thereby robbing Erica of her last reason to live, so that she'd kill herself, thereby solving his problem for him? 

Speaking of "my daughter!!", it now makes even less sense that Erica never told anyone about why she did what she did since Tal demonstrated how easily he could get to said "my daughter!!" whenever he wanted. 

It also makes even less sense that no one ever put two and two together and figured out why Erica all of a sudden turned "traitor" when she hadn't ever done anything like that before (or since). 

On another note, I've been wondering for a while if the show would break out a certain trope that we've all seen before: namely, since we were only told how the dearly departed fiancee died, will the show try to shock! and surprise! us by revealing that the CIA faked her death (and maybe others), and she (and possibly others) have been in a witness protection-esque program for the past few years? I wouldn't put it past this show, mostly because keeping Erica responsible for the deaths of those people gives the show pretty much nowhere to go. 

Speaking of not going anywhere, Erica didn't initially accept Tal's offer, yet still seemed to follow every single step of the outline he presented to her about what would happen and what she would do? She didn't make use of her super duper super spy skills to spirit away "my daughter!!" and go someplace where it would be difficult to find her/them? She just stayed put and waited for them to catch her? It almost makes me wonder if this is all part of a long con/deep cover CIA mission to ultimately get Tal (though that doesn't make a lot of sense given the fact that they seemingly didn't do anything to that end for three years). 

Finally, there was one throwaway mention of the husband, but he wasn't shown at all. I seem to recall that Erica mentioned that he divorced her during the trial or shortly thereafter, so why wasn't he in the home? Why was she the only one instructing "my daughter!!" to do her homework? Since they cast an actor who's actually been in some things, this makes me wonder if, as the season draws to a close, they'll bring him more to the fore and reveal that he's also a spy and/or a bad guy. 

Ultimately, this episode did make it seem to be pretty much a certainty that the writers didn't go into this with some kind of comprehensive, logical plan. They keep writing themselves into corners and look to be making things up as they go along, and I still can't fathom why that seems to be the case.

[tennisgurl]

Are we totally sure that Erica’s (ex?) husband really exists? Is he some kind of imaginary friend, or is this a Mrs. Columbo before the weird spin off situation where we always hear about him, but never actually see him?

Edited April 16, 2019 by tennisgurl

[alvajon]

Personally, I think they should have had tonight’s episode as the pilot--it would’ve prevented a lot of second guessing, at least in my camp. I keep picturing Tal as Arkady from The Americans, waiting for him to be the good Russian.  

[mertensia]

So no one at the FBI ever put two and two together when going over her movements on that day and figured out "Tal forced her to?" Man, they are nitwits. Quantico level nitwits. We need Russell Tovey, stat.

[AnyTimeFromNow]

I really liked this episode. I thought it revealed more about what happened with Erica's daughter in an effective, suspenseful way. I liked the scenes between Erica and Keaton after they suspected her but before they arrested her. When Erica expressed confidence that Keaton would find the "mole", I liked the way she declared it, knowing that they would be onto her shortly. The episode also left me eager to learn more about what Erica is up to after that phone call with Tal.

[TV Anonymous]

7 hours ago, mertensia said:

So no one at the FBI ever put two and two together when going over her movements on that day and figured out "Tal forced her to?" Man, they are nitwits. Quantico level nitwits. We need Russell Tovey, stat.

More importantly, the Deputy Director of Operations - or the Director of National Clandestine Services IRL today - who managed secret and dangerous missions involving very dangerous actors, did not have enough measures to protect her and her family?

[Loandbehold]

10 hours ago, weathered1 said:

It also makes even less sense that no one ever put two and two together and figured out why Erica all of a sudden turned "traitor" when she hadn't ever done anything like that before (or since). 

There have been long-time double agents who got away w/ giving secrets to, usually the Soviets (or allegedly, the Israelis) for years w/o being caught. They were able to track Erica's call to Tal before the four agents were killed. Just b/c they hadn't found anything else, that could be a "yet" and not "it never happened."

Boy, it was a good thing that "my daughter!!" (TM weathered1) decided to play hooky that very day. Else how would Tal have had two operatives playing cops take her from the park so he could threaten Erica. And, how did they get "my daughter!!'s" cell phone away from her so they could throw it in the trash by the bathrooms? Or was Tal lucky enough for "my daughter!!" to ditch her cellphone so Erica couldn't track her? Tal was also very lucky that "my daughter!!" stayed up in her room the entire time that he was in Erica's house. Or else, that could have been awk-ward.

10 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Are we totally sure that Erica’s (ex?) husband really exists? Is he some kind of imaginary friend, or is this a Mrs. Columbo before the weird spin off situation where we always hear about him, but never actually see him?

I think we saw him in the foreground of one shot when Erica attended "my daughter!!'s" piano recital. The camera did linger in that shot.

[Happy Harpy]

This show reminds me of Designated Survivor from mid-season 1 on, in the sense that it always ends on a cliffhanger and it never delivers in the next episode. The very definition of "anticlimatic".

It was one of the better outings, yet it aired at the wrong moment. I agree, it should have been episode 2 if not the pilot. I guess this one didn't cost much to production, with all the re-used footage.

I had yet again about three minutes of Raza Jaffrey, and I really liked the friendship moment between Daniel and Will. That, and the red-head agent in the beginning who kicked ass.

It's a pity that Kelli Garner can't elevate the poor material she's given. Her character is so mousy and transparent. I didn't miss the other two. Too bad the red-head agent died, I'd have exchanged her against those three in a heartbeat.

@weathered1, when they said the fiancée died in a plane accident, the first thing I thought was : "she's going to turn up alive". And probably eeeevil.

But unless they planned it for this season, there's a high probability we'll never get an answer. TEW dropped to 0.6 last week vs basketball and it didn't rebound this week. It's a show in its first season, with no streaming deal. I don't think it will be back.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[tennisgurl]

19 hours ago, Maverick said:

 Perhaps the most damning thing I can say about this show is that it makes me miss its predecessor, Manifest. 

I mean, at least on Manifest, I can actually name most of the main characters, and at least a few rudimentary characteristics. With the characters here, its just basically paper dolls moving around to service the plot half of the time. 

This episode was at least a bit more interesting, but I still cant believe that no one figured out what was really going on with Tal and Erica. No one noticed that she was desperately trying to call her team in right after she made the call to Tal? No one asked any follow ups on why this is the only bit of information he had gotten from her? Really?

[KaveDweller]

19 hours ago, weathered1 said:

Since they cast an actor who's actually been in some things, this makes me wonder if, as the season draws to a close, they'll bring him more to the fore and reveal that he's also a spy and/or a bad guy. 

Who did they cast? I was assuming we hadn't seen him because they didn't cast anyone yet and want him to be someone good, as he'll eventually play a larger role. We haven't heard what he does, but it's not unbelievable to make him part of CIA/FBI so he can be involved in investigations.

It is becoming really noticeable that they haven't shown him yet. And the fact that they've been letting the minor daughter visit Erica without his permission is going to blow up. 

I liked this episode better than any other, even if there wasn't really new information. Mainly because it wasn't full of 50 scenes where people discussed not being able to trust Erica.

[preeya]

Eight episodes in and all we've seen are flashbacks and reruns of what we learned in the first episode.

So finally in episode #8, we get all those flashbacks and reruns strung together in one sequenced version.

Episode #8 could have been the pilot.

Whatta joke.

Edited April 17, 2019 by preeya

[JasmineFlower]

I'm perplexed at the positioning of this episode in the season. I question whether it was intended to go here originally. We're seeing this right after Erica is all over Keaton for not making a tough choice, we see her very clearly make an even worse choice. It makes her even less sympathetic not more, so a strange move by the producers.

From what I could tell, Bragg was not in this episode, making it seem like this was shot early on, before he was ever cast (Noah Mills joined the cast in the summer, well after the show was picked up to series). I think this may have been the original pilot, meant to be the series premiere. I remember one of my main takeaways after watching the first episode was that it should've been a 2-hour premiere to better set the stage and pairing this with what we got is making sense when I think it over.

Really strange to get so much flashback and almost no additional character development or background information about the other characters. We basically learned nothing new about anyone. The only thing I sorta picked up that I didn't really know before is that Raza appears to be in a relationship or was when Laine was alive. Also further questioned calling Hannah's father Erica's husband. He parents differently and seemingly separate from Erica and there was no trace of him at the house. But sure, let's keep up this sham about it being her "husband" and leaving her after she was charged. What's so wrong with making them separated or divorced? The writing on here is so suspect, such an easy change to make that would make this all a non-issue. I hope there winds up being a good story there.

Also, curious writing choice to have us following mostly unknown female CIA agent getting documents from where she was and trying to get to safety. Seems like they had 4 choices of who to show in greater detail this episode. Given everything, that should've been Laine. It not being her does make me wonder if she's really alive.

[weathered1]

I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment that this episode should've been shown long before now. In fact, I think the show would've been better served to have had the promos focus on the question of why a respected CIA agent would become a traitor. The first episode should've focused on her being "the most hated woman in America," the team grudgingly working with her, her being remote and somewhat cold but still offering her expertise, and only breaking down and wailing about "my daughter!!" at the very end of the episode. That would've led quite well into this being the second episode. 

That still wouldn't have been chock full o' surprises, but it at least may have kept people intrigued enough to stick around. 

Also, the more we talk about Laine still being amongst the living, the more certain I become that she is. I think there's a reason we keep seeing her in flashbacks and that this episode featured a prolonged closeup on her portrait at the CIA ceremony. I bet she's still alive and kicking, and the only question is is she a good guy or yet another mole/double agent. 

Edited April 18, 2019 by weathered1

[preeya]

6 hours ago, weathered1 said:

Also, the more we talk about Laine still being amongst the living, the more certain I become that she is. I think there's a reason we keep seeing her in flashbacks and that this episode featured a prolonged closeup on her portrait at the CIA ceremony. I bet she's still alive and kicking, and the only question is is she a good guy or yet another mole/double agent. 

I'm starting to lean in this direction. The manner in which Keaton was told of her "death" by his superiors was rather cold. It's possible that she's still alive and is "the enemy within."

[KaveDweller]

Question I thought of during this backstory episode.

Erica said before that she was so close with all the agents she helped kill that they came to all Hannah's birthday parties. Yet she didn't seem to know Keaton before that. Wouldn't you know your close friend's fiance?

[Dowel Jones]

I had to laugh a bit at Erica's takedown at the Capitol Mall.  All those agents standing in a circle with their guns drawn.  What happens if they start shooting?

[BaskingsharkGTX]

There were so many nits to pick with this episode, it could keep a whole family of chimpanzees busy and fed for a month.

But first let’s talk about Tal. 

Tal is sinister and a terrorist. He’s a sinister terrorist. He makes sinister phonecalls. (Lots of them actually. Frankly, The Enemy Within makes a far better drinking game than it does a show, and “Tal makes a sinister phonecall” is a “take two drinks”.) He also does sinister things in a sinister fashion. He rides around in sinister town cars. He sends sinister video streams. He appears sinisterly in people’s living rooms. He even looks sinister and speaks in a really SINISTER "Hewho Ewica" accent. (He sort of reminds me of the old Looney Tunes cartoons depictions of Peter Lorre.) In short, he seems like he ticks the boxes and should do what he needs to do and be what he needs to be even if you can’t help but feel like you’ve seen him many, many times before.

Then you realize that everything he says is so dementedly stupid and everything he does is so ridiculously illogical and plot-convenient and all that sinisterosity is just a thin veneer that covers some of the laziest writing this season.

Tal is a perfect - sinister - metaphor for this show.

On EW, Guards and Border Guards and frontline cops are all conveniently useless, regardless of whether they are American and get shot up by fake pirates or Croatian and get the crap kicked out of them by a woman half their size.) Everyone else, meanwhile, is super-smart and cool - until the writers need them not to be.

One minute, JCarp is incisive and Savanty. She scowls knowingly at video walls while commending her operatives on snatching the documents which will help them - at last - find Tal! (Who is in her house.) Ten minutes later, she goes to pieces and cracks instantly when she’s sent a video stream of her daughter sitting on a park bench, spews out the names of her operatives then drives round screeching hysterically like Lucy at the chocolate factory before switching back to Ice Cool mode to stab a guy in the neck with a pen. 

And that's in spite of the fact that this woman has spent the entire series so far Deducing Amazing Things from sideways glances at headlines on laptop screens, overheard murmurings and the smell of someone’s lunch, she does not check that this video feed is even real.

It's not just the characters either. It's the whole setup. JCarp's the Grand High Priestess of the CIA (or whatever), but apparently there’s no protocol at all for what happens if she or a member of her family like, I dunno, the minor daughter she lives alone with, are targeted by bad guys. And no protection officers either.

She also has no security systems, cameras or anything else in her home, allowing The Most Sinister Terrorist In The World to just wander in and hang out waiting for her. And while he gave her his patented “We are not so different you and I, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah you got closer to me than anyone else” speech (Uh Tal, the only reason she’s close to you is because you’re in her living room and you came to her), she apparently also has no personal alarm, secret transmitter thingy or anything else she could use to summon help.

And since she’d already wasted her pen on that other dude earlier, she couldn’t even stab him in the carotid artery.

Someone upthread mentioned that they thought this could have been a re-edited version of what was originally intended as the pilot. I’ll go one further. It could be that they were too busy trying to remember their own characters’ names to write anything new so they just decided to film the very first rough draft of the pilot script and see if anyone noticed. 

For purposes of fairness, there were some good moments. I did like the “Do I look like I got a phone?!” homeless guy. Can he be a new regular and just hang out with the current characters pointing out when they ignore the obvious? Then there was JCarp's "I cut myself on the car, it's not as bad as it looks" when her coat was COVERED in blood.

And I loved JCarp being all "Wawawa puhlease can I say goodbyeeee to my daughter??!!" and Morris' delivery of that straight up "No". I've realized the parts I enjoy most in this show are the bits where Morris does a stonefaced smackdown on JCarp. That says something about these characters...

Anyway. Enough being nice. Spare the snark, spoil the spies. Other nits. In no particular order;

1. JCarp. Always sharp. Always on point. Always ten steps ahead* but... "Hey Erica, you forgot your cellphone!"
   
   *Unless a sinister terrorist vaguely hints he might be in the same vicinity as her daughter but ignore that.
    
2. JCarp. Always sharp. Always on point. Always ten steps ahead but...
   
   She's lax enough with her daughter that she brought her up to forget to do her homework and has apparently neglected to point out to her that as the daughter of the CIA's All-Seeing Chosen One, she should never do things like going AWOL from school, lest a sinister terrorist should wander into the same vicinity as her and start a Facebook live stream of her hanging around and turn her mother into a gibbering wreck.
    
3. JCarp. Always sharp. Always on point. Always ten steps ahead but... she tries to call missing Hanna multiple times - and only THEN does she use “Locate” (AKA Find My iPhone Except Generic Because TV Show). Granted there was a sinister terrorist... 
    
4. How did Hanna’s phone get into the garbage if she was just picked up by people who she thought were real cops? Were they like “Young lady, you should be in school and we’re going to punish you for not being in school by tossing your $600 iPhone in the trash so let that be a lesson to you, HA!”
   
   I don’t think cops are allowed to do that.
    
5. NBC, you really should have called me before you make more episodes of this show. That way I could give you my snarky notes beforehand so you can use them to make your show not be awful instead of me using them to fish for internet karma on here.
    
6. Tal’s operative caved pretty darn quickly after being stabbed in the neck. Since there was no Stubble Guy in this ep to give us our weekly dose of cliched dialogue we’ve heard 850,000 times before, we did have Tal stand in for him with the aforementioned “you got closer to me than anybody" and Morris doing “I don't care! All I care about is catching the person who killed Lane!”) but c’mon, Neckstab Henchman - what happened to “You’re gonna let me die anyway! I will tell you nothing, American pig! Tal will win! You go to hell!” followed by a quick loogie to the face?
    
7. How exactly did having the names of those four operatives and no other information about them at all help Tal find them and kill them? Especially Desiree, who got located immediately (seemingly as soon as Tal got her name) in spite of the fact that she was using an alias?
    
8. When the shit hit the fan and Blonde Woman bounced breathlessly across the office to tell Morris that it was indeed JCarp who was the mole and he arrested her, in the ensuing investigation, how did it not come out that JCarp made a call to the cops about her missing daughter and what about Neckstab Henchman’s body? Did that never get found and linked to her? Did she burn the jacket with all his blood on it?
    
9. “I will have her eyes plucked from her skull!!!!” Oh Jesus God, Fuck OFF Tal. Are you also gonna feed her to the ill-tempered, mutated sea bass?
    
10. How did Tal know Hanna was going to skip school and go to the park? A better-written show might have set up a more combative relationship between Hanna and JCarp and had it that she’d been playing hooky in the park every Friday for a month just to defy her over-rigid mother’s insistence on knowing where she was at all times and had unknowingly established a pattern Tal's people had observed. Character development? Conflict? Pffffft. We don’t need no stinkin’ character development or conflict here. We got a will-they-won’t-they thing goin with Stubble Guy and Pettigrew, dontcha know! The audience will be on the edge of their seats...
     
11. That scene where Morris got told his GF was dead was kinda… perfunctory. “Hey, what’s up, Morris, my man? So listen, it’s too bad but ya know that plane that went down? Yeah, Lane was on it. Sorry ‘bout dat, big guy! We still on for racketball Sunday?”
     
12. Lane’s parents don’t get an escort to her official memorial service? They don’t even get told what the ceremony entails and how it’ll run? “Heeeeeeeeey there, Mama and Papa Lane. Sorry ‘bout your daughter dying and all. Why don’t you swing by this little memorial thing we’re having for her - it’s super informal, no biggie. Just a star on a wall, little speech and some nibbles. You’ll love it. No dress code, just come as you are.” 
     
13. Morris is allowed to lead the investigation into who caused his fiancee’s death? I guess we also don’t need no stinkin’ objectivity, either.
     
14. Morris: “I’m going to the briefing”. RazaJ: “I’m coming with.” Raza, dude? I don’t think it works like that. I know you’re high-ranking too and all, but high-security briefings are sorta invite-only. Why don’t you hang at the office and you and Morris can catch up at Lane’s memorial later. That’s way more casual. Star on Wall. Nibbles. You know the drill.
    
    And last but not least…
     
15. For the last three years, JCarp has had a phone number she could use to get in direct contact with Tal. A number that he hasn’t changed or killed, in spite of knowing she was arrested, tried, jailed for life-plus-her-next-five-reincarnations and given that snappy “I Committed Treason With a Cartoonishly Sinister Terrorist and Became The Most Hated Woman in America™ And All I Got Was This Lousy T-Shirt” Beefy-T. Why didn't she just tell Morris she has the number, barter it for a promise of freedom, then freaking call it and trace Tal's location?!!!!!

Edited April 19, 2019 by BaskingsharkGTX

[Dowel Jones]

For that matter, why didn't Shepherd just put a bullet in Tal's abdomen at the house, and bargain for her daughter's safety? Next one goes in your head, big guy, and your network doesn't give a damn about you after you're gone.

[alvajon]

Basking shark--you’ve done it again--best post of the week.  Made my day. 

[Writing Wrongs]

No posts for last night's epi? Has everyone abandoned me?

It's weird that I keep watching this show, but decided to drop Whiskey Cavalier. I'm still interested to see what happens for some reason. I like watching Shepherd observe everything in her special way. LOL

[Dowel Jones]

I watched the episode last night, but couldn't think of anything to comment on.  It was just that ho-hum.

I am puzzled as to why the FBI would have such an interest in what the CIA is doing offshore.  And, I guess, why an otherwise hostile regime (Cuba) would allow the one agency that had the most to do with an attempted coup in the past to run a rendition black site on their little island. 

I did get a laugh out of the FBI agents telling the CIA guy not to follow their plant down the alley, because "they'll spot the tail in a minute."  Unlike the big blue SUV parked at one end of the alley watching the plant.

[Ohwell]

Morris Chestnut has been in some short-lived, clunker tv shows and I fear this is just another one.  But hey, he's getting paid, so there's that.  If this one is cancelled, I have no doubt that he'll show up on yet another short-lived, clunker show.

[Happy Harpy]

Dear show, since everyone in the team has to be incompetent, could they at least be badass?

Alas, Pettigrew didn't go to the Jack Traven seminar for dealing with hostage situations. Instead, she channeled her inner Pollyana in front of a terrorist. Sigh.

I admire the actors on this show, for being able to say their ridiculous lines while keeping a straight face.

With everyone following the rules of Law Enforcement for Carebears, I wouldn't be surprised if the president was Tom Kirkman in this universe, too.

Raza Jaffrey had a couple of scenes (Daniel is the mole, isn't he?) Morris Chestnut did a good job in his last emotional scene.

Cliffhanger of the week. Yawn. Four to go.

Edited April 23, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[weathered1]

The episode was such a slog to get through, and given the subject matter, it really shouldn't have been. I think the root of the problem (well, one of the problems) is that the writing is so uninspired, so lazy, so lackluster, and so utterly lacking in creativity and energy. It's like these people were forced to write the episodes but didn't really want to, so they made everything as bland, predictable, clunky, and unimaginative as humanly possible. 

There was also the ridiculousness of the prolonged scene where all of the CIA analysts, one at a time, turned their computers off or otherwise hid sensitive information as they made eye contact with Erica. At least they also had to announce that not only is she The Most Hated Woman in America, she's also The Most Hated Woman in the CIA. So melodramatic. My eyes rolled so often that I started to get a headache.

Additionally, everything about the Pettigrew/hostage negotiation scene was truly awful, from the way she held her gun (and looked like she'd never done so before), to the absurd things she said and the way she delivered her lines. Everything about it was cringeworthy. 

At least they went back - again, some more - to their old tried and true scenes of Erica knowing all and seeing all and later doing her best MacGyver impression (again) when Keaton was evidently confident in the ability of a particularly flimsy looking pair of handcuffs to totally thwart Super Spy Shepherd. 

It's like they gave up on the show before it even started and are now just letting it limp ignominiously to the finish line.

[preeya]

So the CIA guy with SUPER DUPER CLEARANCE takes the SUPER DUPER ENCRYPTED PHONE from the SUPER DUPER SECURE FILE CABINET and talks on that SUPER DUPER ENCRYPTED PHONE in plain sight of everyone and SUPER DUPER ERICA is able to read his lips and unmasks the secret of the TREASURE OF SIERRA MAESTRA.

Give me a fucking break!!!!!!!!

[BaskingsharkGTX]

Sigh. So this was less aggressively terrible than the last few episodes but it was significantly more stupid and boring and does it strike anyone else that not only are these people not very good at catching Tal, they also aren't trying particularly HARD to do so.

I mean, the man has moles everywhere - in the FBI, in the CIA, in the transport company. While JCarp had her agent in Wherever The Hell It Was last week stealing papers that would get them closer to Tal than ever, Tal was in the US kidnapping her daughter and popping up in her house. This week he's got a freaking on-staff doctor and a mansion with a full surgery and a bunch of Minions patrolling it. And he somehow suddenly knows the doctor was working with the CIA/FBI and was going to have him offed as soon as the surgery was done probably because of another MOLE! Aren't there dozens of angles here they could be investigating from? Good thing they got lucky and the doctor randomly got a crisis of conscience and contacted them!

The scene where JCarp walked into the CIA and everyone immediately turned off all their monitors and phones and closed all the files was hilarious. They WORKED WITH THIS WOMAN! They KNOW SHE SEES ALL AND KNOWS ALL and just the TINIEST GLANCE can reveal their deepest darkest secrets to her!!!!!

And of course it WASN'T ENOUGH!!! They should have blindfolded her so she couldn't see the super-secret-super-safes and lip-read the exact piece of information she needed. Although then she probably would have sniffed the air and smelled the super-secret-ecryptophones and figured out that Easily Manipulated Sarah was right there to be manipulated from her familiar perfume and KNOWN IT ALL ANYWAY!!! 

YOU CAN'T HIDE FROM THE JCARP, BITCHES!!!!!

Props to the doctor dude though, for being the first person to actually recognize her as The Most Hated Woman in America™! 

Apropos of there not being a hell of a lot to say about this dull-ass episode, here is my The Enemy Within Drinking Game so far;

1. One drink every time the episode has less internal consistency than a Scooby-Doo cartoon from the Scrappy-Doo era.
    
2. One drink if JCarp stares impassively at the camera.
    
3. Two drinks if JCarp stares impassively at the camera and narrows her eyes.
    
4. Three drinks if JCarp stares impassively at the camera, narrows her eyes then looks sideways at someone.
    
5. One drink if JCarp is perp-walked into a CIA or FBI office wrapped up in chains like Houdini and everyone stares judgily at her.
    
6. One drink if a vehicle is driving down the road or crashing and the camera goes swooping around like a GoPro that's been mounted on a drunk pigeon.
    
7. One drink if an incompetent law enforcement official is easily overpowered and killed by a Tal operative.
    
8. One drink if someone turns out to be a Tal mole.
    
9. One drink if someone refers to JCarp as The Most Hated Woman/Person in America™.
    
10. One drink if she then goes out in public and nobody recognizes her.
     
11. Five drinks if she then goes out in public and somebody does recognize her.
     
12. One drink if someone reminds Morris that JCarp is The Most Hated Woman/Person in America™ and asks if he can trust her or her intel/deductions.
     
13. One drink if Morris reminds them that JCarp is responsible for Lane's death and he's only using her as an asset and actually hates her.
     
14. Five drinks if it sounds like he means it.
     
15. One drink if Morris and JCarp look each other in the eye and have A Moment Of Understanding and she says something faux-meaningful about how his pain will be worthwhile when they catch Tal.
     
16. One drink if a guest character has a dead significant other.
     
17. One drink if there's a flashback.
     
18. Two drinks if Lane appears in it.
     
19. Three drinks if Lane and JCarp appear in it together.
     
20. Four drinks if JCarp smiles in it to show How Deeply She Has Been Affected by her incarceration in the present day and What A Different Person She Is Now.
     
21. One drink if JCarp makes a ridiculous leap-of-logic Sherlock Holmes deduction that no actual human could EVER make but which gives them a clue that kicks off the investigation of the week.
     
22. One drink if someone JCarp knows from five years ago in Kazakhstan turns out to be just the very person they need or a situation she was in in 2007 in Swaziland is coincidentally similar to whatever situation the characters are in right now and she realizes exactly what they need to do as a result. 
     
23. Two drinks if the person from Kazakhstan just happens to be in the exact same building right now.
     
24. One drink if Hana is threatened by Tal or school bullies or an outbreak of Mono at her piano class and JCarp instantly turns from ice-cold Superwoman into an incompetent, blithering human lump of jello.
     
25. One drink if Hana looks at her mother with a bewildered expression on her face and asks why she did it and JCarp doesn't tell her and asks her about her driving lessons instead.
     
26. One drink if JCarp escapes from somewhere using some random object that just happens to be lying around and also just happens to be the very exact thing she needs to get out of wherever she is.
     
27. One drink if JCarp is shown in her dungeon with a criss-cross shadow on the wall behind her to remind us that she is CAGED.
     
28. Five drinks if the "guard who is always there" actually IS there.
     
29. One drink if The Blonde Woman takes a too-long time to over-eagerly explain a piece of her tech to one of the other characters while they pretend to be interested but clearly don't give a shit. 
     
30. Two drinks if it's Microsoft AI.
     
31. One drink if The Stubble Guy comes out with some cheesy Generic TV Action Show line of dialog that's been used 400,000 times previously in everything from 77 Sunset Strip to Hawaii 5-O to The A-Team to the Albanian remake of Magnum.
     
32. One drink if a romantic relationship between The Stubble Guy and Pettigrew is lamely hinted at but nothing happens.
     
33. Five drinks if The Stubble Guy actually gets something to do.
     
34. One drink if Raza makes a resigned snarky comment about not trusting JCarp but nobody pays any attention to him.
     
35. One drink if Tal makes a sinister phonecall from offscreen.
     
36. Two drinks if Tal makes a sinister phonecall onscreen.
     
37. Three drinks if Tal comes out with some ridiculous second-rate Bond villain dialogue about JCarp being the one who got closest to him and we are not so different you and I and come join me in my Evil Organization and I want you to feel the pain of incarceration and eyes out of skull and no Mr. Bond I expect you to die blah blah blah sinstercakes.
     
38. Four drinks if Tal shows up in someone's living room.
     
39. Five drinks if Tal shows up in JCarp's living room.
     
40. Ten drinks if Tal shows up in your living room.
     
41. One hundred drinks if we ever actually meet Hana's father.

Edited April 24, 2019 by BaskingsharkGTX

[tennisgurl]

Does Tal just have super powers or something? How is he everywhere at all times, with freaking moles all over the place? Its like a game of freaking whack a mole!

I mean, I guess Tal doesent really need super powers, because these guys suuuuuck at catching bad guy. I mean, they really, REALLY suck.

Everyone on this show has two setting: Dull Surprise, or Shatner levels of ham. Nothing in between. Tragically, it tends more towards dull surprise. 

Edited April 24, 2019 by tennisgurl

[Maverick]

Another ridiculous thing about this show is her being the most hated woman in America.  She was a CIA agent. No way in hell does her identity get acknowledged or does she stand trial in open court.  She would have been thrown in a dark hole and never heard of again.