Endeavour - General Discussion

[Guest]

This topic replaces the old Endeavour forum which has been vaulted at the location below:  http://forums.previously.tv/forum/1006-endeavour-v/

[formerlyfreedom]

When is series six of Endeavour on TV? Who is in the cast? What will happen?

Quote

There’s not long to wait – the new episodes of Endeavour are expected to land on ITV in early 2019. 2018 delivered six episodes of Endeavour, but for the 2019 series ITV has dropped the number back down to four films.

[Popples]

I feel emotionally manipulated. 😭 Still no air date, yet.

[Popples]

ITV airdate is Sunday, February 10! No word on PBS, but it'll probably be in the summer. Someone did a lovely, vintage-style poster for it. Can't wait!

[Popples]

Finally, the trailer dropped; I am ludicrously excited about it!

[Popples]

US airdate announced (it usually doesn't come this early), Sunday, June 16, 9:00 PM EST.

It's weird that I'm just talking to myself.

[chitowngirl]

Yay-an airdate! I binged the whole series last year and it’s so hard when you’ve caught up and are waiting for the new season.

[Popples]

Spoilers! Two scenes from the first episode "Pylon." Scenes are able to be viewed in the US.

Scene One

Scene Two

[Popples]

Since it's now a topic and not its own forum, I'll put my thoughts under the spoiler tag.

Pylon:

OMG, Mr. Bright and that pelican; I am absolutely speechless. 🤣

I hate that Ronnie Box is back and part of me hopes he has something to do with Fancy's murder so he can go to prison since it isn't illegal to be an odious asshole.

I never thought about what DeBryn's house would look like, but it absolutely suits him.

I'm always terrified that Thursday is going to die, but now I'm wondering if he'll end his career in disgrace, which might make me feel worse. I wish they had mentioned how Fred was able to convince Win to come back home.

It's surprising that Strange took Fancy's death the hardest, and that he's the only one who is actively trying to solve it.

While I thought Morse was going to stay in uniform longer than one episode, I'm pleased he's back as a detective. As shady as the Masons have done him, Strange is pulling some strings in his favor.

The couple at the end seemed a bit underwhelmed for seeing their missing daughter for the first time in three years.

All in all, I really enjoyed this episode and I love that it's back, it was sorely missed.

Edited February 13, 2019 by saoirse
removed unnecessary spoiler tag

[HollyG]

Although not a huge Bright fan, I hated seeing the detectives making fun of him.

Glad that Morse is back in street clothes and I hope he loses the mustache along with the uniform.

Happy the series is back!

[formerlyfreedom]

~~~MOD NOTE~~~

Please note; once a show airs, even if it is not in the US, it is out of the bag, and spoiler tags should not be used. If you are entering this topic and have not viewed the episodes because they have not yet aired on PBS, please expect to be spoiled. Spoiler tags may be removed if used incorrectly.

Please pm me, @saoirse, with any questions you may have.

[2727]

Morse has always been a bit of a sad sack in his personal life, but man, things are grim for everyone now. Thursday's home and work life have fallen apart, Win has shut down completely, and Bright is a humiliated laughingstock. Box couldn't be more of a murdering asshole if he tried.

On a brighter note, Joan's new job seems to have given her some purpose and Viv is a crusading, truth-telling delight.

Nice to see Strange's progress on the job. He was portrayed as such a bumbler in the early seasons but it's easy now to see how he rose through the ranks and came to be Morse's boss. It seems like the show is working towards he and Joan getting together.

Where is Morse living now -- a room in the police barracks or something? I missed why he's no longer living with Jim.

[Popples]

On 2/19/2019 at 3:22 AM, 2727 said:

Where is Morse living now -- a room in the police barracks or something? I missed why he's no longer living with Jim.

I just assumed that with the merger and shuffle last season, it might have not been feasible for them to keep living together. Maybe due to the distance from the flat to their jobs. When Morse was back in uniform, he looked like he was stationed somewhere out in the sticks.

Apollo:

Thursday being injured like that had me too upset. He's no spring chicken and might not bounce back after an injury as a younger person would. I still hate seeing him and Win still at odds. It's easy to see why Win is still angry, not only was Fred not forthcoming about their life savings, but he's also still lying to her about little things i.e. how his hand got injured in the previous episode. It was extremely awkward to see them ignoring each other with Joan in the middle of them watching the moon landing.

It's nice to see that even though Morse didn't get on with Bright, he still is more respectful and deferential towards him than Box (who is still really awful). Bright definitely seems to miss being in the midst of all the action and keen to help out. Him and Fred's conversation by the vending machines made me miss their meetings back at Cowley.

Morse has never acted like that with Joan before, I guess this is supposed to cement his grumpy attitude in future. She was the second person to call him a prick in one episode.

I forgot to mention it in the last episode, but they really went all out on the soundtrack this series; couldn't have been cheap. I was also surprised that, show-wise, absolutely no one said anything about Morse's mustache. I would have thought Joan of all people would have mentioned it.

[Pyralis]

Apollo

While I found the case serious enough, I couldn't help cracking up at the Gerry & Sylvia Anderson "homage/rip off" and when the reference was made to the one puppet character who couldn't speak - clearly Marina from Stingray - I nearly died.  I'm old enough to have watched Stingray, Fireball XL5 and the original Thunderbirds.

Yes, Morse has a room where a lot of the single men live - for Peter Grant fans, it's how Peter was living until he was seconded to The Folly.

[Pogojoco]

I've always loved how elegant this show is. The classical music and the Oxford University setting, juxtaposed with the murder and corruption. Beauty and ugliness. 

There are always things that call to one another- the little girl who was killed in Pylon had horse books in her bag (she pulls out Black Beauty on the bus) which links to her actual killers and also, the fact that Morse was trying to catch their runaway horse when he found her. And it's not that it had anything to do with solving the case, it's just something that establishes a feeling or a pattern. 

The scene with Morse walking through the field after that horse was dream-like and gorgeous. But again, beauty up against ugliness- that gorgeous horse was destined for the glue factory. 

Even the Zep song- What Is and What Should Never Be- is a dreamy, fairy-tale song. 

And if I say to you tomorrow
Take my hand, child come with me
It's to a castle I will take you
Where what's to be, they say will be

Edited February 21, 2019 by Pogojoco

[2727]

On 2/12/2019 at 3:48 PM, Popples said:

I thought Morse was going to stay in uniform longer than one episode

Me too, but I'd watch the hell out of a show with Shaun Evans as the only copper in a small rural village. 

I mean, Single-Handed exists but that's Ireland ... totally different!

On a less selfish note, Shaun hasn't had time to do much else as an actor since Endeavour started, so I'd be happy for him if he got to stretch himself a bit after this show ends. (No definite news on season 7 yet, ugh.)

[Popples]

12 hours ago, 2727 said:

On a less selfish note, Shaun hasn't had time to do much else as an actor since Endeavour started, so I'd be happy for him if he got to stretch himself a bit after this show ends.

Shaun seems to be really interested in behind the camera. I think he did a wonderful job directing 'Apollo.' He's even directed a few episodes of Casualty.

[HollyG]

I hate what's happening to Thursday and his association with the 'possibly' bad cops. And I'm sad about his & Win's marriage falling apart. 

Glad the attention has turned back to the George Fancy murder case. But I was a bit surprised that Bright called only Morse when Strange was pretty eager to solve it. I have the feeling that the bad cops may be involved and he's not sure who, besides Morse, he can trust.

Edited February 26, 2019 by HollyG

[Pogojoco]

As soon as Morse asked that lady for a drink I was like, "This is probably bad. She's probably the killer." 

Oh, Morse. If only girls were like crosswords.  

[Popples]

Confection:

How could they finally introduce Mrs. Bright, only to give her inoperable cancer? First, they lose their young daughter, now this. Poor Brights.

If Thursday isn't really undercover trying to expose Box's shady dealings, I may riot. I cannot take him being a dirty cop. Hopefully, Strange approached him like he did Morse, but didn't tell either of them to give them plausible deniability. Also, he looks so wrong smoking cigarettes.

When Box gave Thursday the envelope and then told him to get the next round, the only thing I could think was, "so he's dirty and cheap."

I rarely, if ever, have spotted Colin Dexter once he stopped physically appearing in the show, so I was pleased with myself when I recognized him as "Mr. Quill the Writer" on the collectible cards.

The powers that be are still being cagey about another series (hopefully they'll say after Sunday), but if not there will be so much to wrap up next episode one wonders if it could possibly carry over.

On 2/28/2019 at 12:52 AM, Pogojoco said:

As soon as Morse asked that lady for a drink I was like, "This is probably bad. She's probably the killer."  

 

Or will end up dead, sometimes both! I just felt bad for her son, he's pretty much an orphan now.

[2727]

Morse usually breaks my heart every season, but Thursday is sure giving him a run for the sadness money.

After this episode, I wondered how many times women were the killers -- turns out to be fewer than I remembered. This site has stats for seasons 1-5 including all the murderers and victims (spoilers therein!). The totals are 

Spoiler

15 men and 6 women.

[HollyG]

Great series, good finale. I like the way they wrapped it all up. The bad guys went down, Thursday & Win seem to be on the mend.... and Morse finally got his Jaguar and a new house. Happy the little girls mom was ok. I do feel bad for Bright though. 

And the best part was the voiceover during the credits... "Morse returns for a new series next year"! 

Edited March 3, 2019 by HollyG

[2727]

2 minutes ago, HollyG said:

the voiceover during the credits... "Morse returns for a new series next year"! 

What good news! I turned it off before that part.

Watching, I felt like this was the series finale but Colin Dexter hadn't wanted to announce it in advance.

I was crying-close-to-sobbing during the last five minutes, but they were nostalgic, happy tears.

Spoiler

And the team will all be back together again!

I was so worried for my TV boyfriend Dr. DeBryn! Come here, you darling man and let me soothe your beaten brow.

Was that house in the end the one that Morse owns in the later series?

[HollyG]

1 hour ago, 2727 said:

What good news! I turned it off before that part.

Watching, I felt like this was the series finale but Colin Dexter hadn't wanted to announce it in advance.

I was crying-close-to-sobbing during the last five minutes, but they were nostalgic, happy tears.

  Reveal spoiler

And the team will all be back together again!

I was so worried for my TV boyfriend Dr. DeBryn! Come here, you darling man and let me soothe your beaten brow.

Was that house in the end the one that Morse owns in the later series?

Yes, it did seem like it could be a series finale. I'm very happy it wasn't.

I found some photos of the older Morse house. I didn't remember it being so grand. It does have some similarities, but I don't think it's the same. Although it could be that they meant for us to accept it as the same one.

This article (with photos) is about how vandals damaged the original house. (hope it's ok to post this link here)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1208107/Squatters-wreck-Inspector-Morses-2m-Victorian-home.html

And yes, happy tears at the end. 

Edit: the house is at 23 Castlebar Park, Ealing, London w5. It's been cleaned up and sold and looks to be in beautiful condition again. But I still don't remember Morse's house being this grand.

Edited March 3, 2019 by HollyG

[2727]

45 minutes ago, HollyG said:

I found some photos of the older Morse house

Thanks! Didn't Morse inherit or come into money at some point? I didn't watch the original series.

Real estate detour:

Even if he could afford that place, it doesn't seem like the Endeavour we know from this show would be interested in buying or maintaining such a large property.

I also found Bright's house/lifestyle to be a bit fancy/upper crusty for what I imagine his salary would have been. Maybe his wife has family money.

DeBryn's cottage with garden and Thursday's terrace house both seem very realistic for their jobs.

[HollyG]

2 hours ago, 2727 said:

Thanks! Didn't Morse inherit or come into money at some point? I didn't watch the original series.

Real estate detour:

Even if he could afford that place, it doesn't seem like the Endeavour we know from this show would be interested in buying or maintaining such a large property.

I also found Bright's house/lifestyle to be a bit fancy/upper crusty for what I imagine his salary would have been. Maybe his wife has family money.

DeBryn's cottage with garden and Thursday's terrace house both seem very realistic for their jobs.

I can't remember. I checked out the character's wiki page and it says his parents were divorced and his father drove a taxi. I don't know if his mother remarried or had family money.

[Popples]

My emotions went through the wringer while watching this phenomenal episode. Up until now, Sway has always been my favorite episode because it was the first time I've seen Roger Allam get to be romantic, but this might take the gold.

Win is probably sick of seeing letters left by that clock on the mantlepiece, fortunately, Fred came home. It's nice to see the fight back in him as well, he was going to let Win walk away.

I have to show love to Anton Lesser; Bright's character has had such growth and turnaround from the first series. He went from being so beholden to a rotten system to absolutely endearing and doing what's right. It's such a shame his marriage came to a heart-rendering end.

When they kidnapped Dr. Debryn, I was ready to fight. On this show, harming him is only behind children and the elderly.

Ms. Paroo the librarian; I see you, Russell!

I don't understand How does this show not get noticed by critics? It has to for this series. The writing was fantastic and the acting has always been top notch. It just flies under the radar. Maybe being a police drama hurts it since there are loads of them about.

Thrilled about it getting a seventh series; I always need more of this show. There is speculation that there may be only 6 episodes left in the entire saga. Since the original show had 33 episodes, and Kevin Whately wanted Lewis to do the same out of respect, one can only wonder if it will be that way for this.

I forgot to mention that I can't believe that being the "Pelican Man" saved Mr. Bright's life. 

Edited March 4, 2019 by Popples

[SimoneS]

Great finale. George Fancy's murder avenged. Thursday's marriage is on the mend. And the gang is back together again.

I can't believe how much I have come to love Bright. I was so scared that he was going to be killed and then relieved that his popularity as the ridiculous Pelican man saved his life. Way to go, girls! You know a good guy when you see one. It was sad that he lost his wife, but he will have a strong support system from his friends and colleagues at his "new" post.

I was surprised that Box turned out to be an okay guy and that his bag man was the real bad guy. I hope Box survives and we see him again, humbled and determined to redeem himself.

[2727]

I've been rewatching the entire series this month and am surprised at how mild Jakes' bullying of Morse seems now. I thought he was despicable when the show started but his later friendship with Morse probably influences me to feel kindlier towards him.

Also, Roger really takes big bites out of his lunch sandwiches! He's a method eater.

I'm finishing season 2 now and telling myself not to get too attached to Monica.

Edited April 8, 2019 by 2727

[M. Darcy]

I haven't seen the new season yet so I'm not sure if there are spoilers in this article but nothing seems too spoilery Endeavour Morse Call Backs and Colin Dexter Easter Eggs

[humbleopinion]

PBS US is beginning to run nanoseconds flashes of the upcoming Endeavour season...

Morse rocking his 'stache....can't wait...

[Popples]

[humbleopinion]

Note to self...savor these new episodes...

[magdalene]

Thanks to this forum I will be watching tomorrow night and am happy to know it's been renewed for another season. I didn't expect the show back this soon thanks guys!

[Popples]

[Pyralis]

Oh PBS, why must you cut?  Bright's PSA from the beginning, a couple of Strange scenes and the whole "garden" scene. 

[sagittarius sue]

1 hour ago, Pyralis said:

Oh PBS, why must you cut?  Bright's PSA from the beginning, a couple of Strange scenes and the whole "garden" scene. 

Also, in the past when we heard about 20 seconds of the Morse theme at the end, we didn't have an Alan Cumming voice-over too.

[freddi]

PBS went through the final credits WAY too fast -- no time to get all the screenshots of the red letters with a final "clue" or epigraph to the episode.  I got NASEWELL, but missed a screen or two.  Not sure where letters are missing.  

I could not keep straight who all the girls were.  Will watch again just to try to sort them out.

And are we to assume that Thursday decided to "go along" with the corruption of the sleazy inspector to whom he reports now?  Also, I did not understand the problem Thursday saw with releasing the old murder evidence of the case of the murderer who was hanged.  Normally not this dense, but parts of this were confusing.  And why on earth would the snuff collector CALL THE POLICE to his home if he was in the middle of a long-term crime?  

I just hurt for Morse through the whole episode -- the uniform, the humbleness expected toward authority.  

[magdalene]

The casting on this show is so good.  One example: Ronnie Box.  His actor succeeds brilliantly in making me grind my teeth and loathing his character.

So I am confused - was the guy who was hanged back then and who maintained he was innocent til the end guilty after all?

I think Thursday went along with Box to trap him.

Poor Bright, humiliated in that Pelican PSA.

[Dessert]

58 minutes ago, freddi said:

...no time to get all the screenshots of the red letters with a final "clue" or epigraph to the episode.  I got NASEWELL, but missed a screen or two.  Not sure where letters are missing.  

Apparently the letters spelled “Anna Sewell”. She wrote Black Beauty.

[JudyObscure]

3 hours ago, freddi said:

Also, I did not understand the problem Thursday saw with releasing the old murder evidence of the case of the murderer who was hanged. 

During the old murder case, one of the police had planted a bloody hammer so the prosecution would have a murder weapon -- the box Endeavor found had the real hammer in it. So Thursday was relieved to know he didn't hang the wrong man, but he knew all his past police work would be tainted if it became known that evidence had once been planted.

Thursday is just so sad.  He has to work for a thug, his wife is chronically depressed, his relationship with his daughter is strained.  The fedora. 

On the other hand, when the horrible photographer started talking about one of the little girls as "sugar and spice,"  I was saying, "Punch him Thursday!"  and was not disappointed.

This remains one of the most beautifully filmed, compelling shows,  I don't even care if I lose the plot, just watching Endeavor walk through that field after the white horse was wonderful.

[Kemper]

I love this show and am so glad it is back.  I was a little lost because I could not remember what happened at the end of the last season.  But I love Morse and hate to think about him becoming the bitter, overbearing lonely man played by John Thaw.

[humbleopinion]

Morse's behavior toward Thursday and Joan broke hearts but it was Win on the couch that was the most moving....stellar acting by a stellar cast...

[2727]

I really liked Trewlove but don't bemoan the lack of her now. The men are so compelling on their own. Endeavour, Thursday, Bright and deBryn imprint themselves on every scene they're in, and I'm loving Strange more and more as the seasons go on. He's just so decent. Over the years he's been a stalwart ally to a prickly and condescending Morse, and now using his networking skills and connections in the background to flat out resuscitate Morse's career, and even life. If Joan ever decides what she wants is a contented, secure life with a faithful, honest man, she could do a lot worse than Jim Strange.

5 minutes ago, humbleopinion said:

Morse's behavior toward Thursday and Joan broke hearts.

The scene between Morse and Joan at the fete was masterful! Morse's anger and hurt were so evident in his clipped tones and eyes that couldn't quite stay on Joan's face, while her forced frivolity was just as uncomfortable and sad.

[freddi]

1 hour ago, humbleopinion said:

Morse's behavior toward Thursday and Joan broke hearts but it was Win on the couch that was the most moving....stellar acting by a stellar cast...

When was Win in the episode?  I completely missed her!

[humbleopinion]

The scene: Thursday comes home from work...

Win, in a white dress is sitting on the couch seemingly watching the telly, unaware Gunsmoke is the program on...

Thursday asks if she wants tea, she says no....

 Caroline O'Neill Beautifully conveys Win's depression, distress, unhappiness  in a scene that lasts less than a minute...

Edited June 17, 2019 by humbleopinion

[jrlr]

I am so happy this is back and that a 7th season is going to happen.  But can someone enlighten me on one point?  For the life of me I can't (or don't) understand why Thursday is currently treating Morse like he has the plague. 

I must be one of the few who think that Joan is a pain in the ass, but I'm happy they have given her a direction in her life.  And Strange continues to quietly, without fuss, set things to right - he's a great character.  It is sad, though, as someone pointed out above, that we are seeing Morse start to become that bitter, dour man that he is in the future.

[SunnyBeBe]

I wasn't familiar with this series, so, I was thrilled to see it coming on last night.  I hadn't read anything bout it here either.  It looked so intriguing and such a great premise.  However, my enthusiasm quickly dimmed when I saw how they have this police officer, who seems pretty astute, quick with details and interest, shot down by the detectives.....so, why do I feel like I've seen this done a million times in tv, movies, etc?  It's just so cliche.  Those upper investigations are insecure and agitated with a lower officer who is trying to help......reminds me of Dirty Harry theme.  I didn't finish the entire episode.  I came here to see how others are responding.  

Can someone tell me if that type of thing leaves after the first episode? ( You can put in spoiler tags.  Not sure if that's necessary, since this has already aired elsewhere.)  I'd like to see the murder mystery through, but, not if it's going to be the struggle of the lowly uniform officer fighting to solve a murder, and those in charge are too threatened to allow it.  I would think the writers could get more imaginative than that. 

[freddi]

No, Morse in uniform was a one-time fall from his former status after the reorganization of the Thames Valley Polce force.  But it does appear that Morse and Thursday will be in conflict with the coarser officers this season.  But I'm hoping for a payoff eventually, with Morse and Thursday  exposing their corruption.  

6 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I wasn't familiar with this series, so, I was thrilled to see it coming on last night.  I hadn't read anything bout it here either.  It looked so intriguing and such a great premise.  However, my enthusiasm quickly dimmed when I saw how they have this police officer, who seems pretty astute, quick with details and interest, shot down by the detectives.....so, why do I feel like I've seen this done a million times in tv, movies, etc?  It's just so cliche.  Those upper investigations are insecure and agitated with a lower officer who is trying to help......reminds me of Dirty Harry theme.  I didn't finish the entire episode.  I came here to see how others are responding.  

Can someone tell me if that type of thing leaves after the first episode? ( You can put in spoiler tags.  Not sure if that's necessary, since this has already aired elsewhere.)  I'd like to see the murder mystery through, but, not if it's going to be the struggle of the lowly uniform officer fighting to solve a murder, and those in charge are too threatened to allow it.  I would think the writers could get more imaginative than that. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Thanks for your response.  I'm not sure I'm up for that kind of interdepartmental discord, when they are investigating a murder and expertise from all should be welcomed.    I may give it one more shot.