Oliver Queen: The Arrow

[Morrigan2575]

The whole plot was stupid. There is/was no logic

[kismet]

Okay, I have to be honest. The omelette line was too meta and would have been better off left to memes, photocaps and cons. But I do love Felicity perking up on seeing Oliver come home. Look at this thing I've done! Not to mention Oliver Howdy Neighbor Queen. It. Is. Awesome. I lauged and laughed and want a gif rigt now.

 I will never for the life of me understand how Ollie scored with so many girls, the boy has no game whatsoever. I love it and him.

The omelette line was hysterical, meta & wicked cheesy all at the same time - it was the trifecta.

 I don't think he ever had much game. I think girls just fell over each other to get to him. It helped that he was RICH & attractive. I also feel like he is man that has aged well. There is just something simultaneously charming & goofy about him. Its probably the puppy dog eyes that he has cornered the market on. But seriously, he just has this thing that makes you want to hug him (& I'm not even a hugger). He's the perpetual lost boy in need of a hug. Back in the day, he was lost by his own choosing (too much of a project). And in present day he is lost as result of the emotional damage & carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders (you can't help but want to give the guy a hug). But yeah, I'm not sure he had much game. Honestly, it seems like Tommy probably did most of the work & OQ reaped the benefits.

Edited September 29, 2015 by kismet

[bijoux]

Yeah, I'm thinking the rich thing was his chief benefit. I mean, I totally get going for Oliver, even if he probably is more than most can handle. It's Ollie I have problem with when it comes to seeing his appeal. But then I suppose his pre-island conquests are pretty far removed from my own experiences so I'd have no idea what those girls found attractive anyway. Yeah, Tommy doing the work would make sense.

In fact, when it comes to dancing (which is something that came up on the boars recently), I have my own head cannon. Moira made Oliver take dance lessons as a kid because anything else would not make sense. Tommy also went because while the Queens were messed up, they made sure to include him while Malcolm was off playing his sad little trombone in NP. Oliver was the jokester, while Tommy was quiet at the time, so Ollie started out as the popular one. Only once the dancing started he was uncoordinated and getting more horrible as lessons went on. Tommy on the other hand cut the floor like Fred Astaire and all the girls wanted to pair up with him, leaving Ollie shunned and pouting on the sidelines. That's why he doesn't dance.

Sort of going back to the elder Queens Robert's suicide always astounds me. Putting aside the emotional damage he was enflicting on his kid, that kid was Ollie, a complete blob of human tissue incapable of pretty much anything. If he had been my kid, I probably would have been afraid to let him leave off for college. Frankly, I imagine Moira would have been relieved when he was kicked out of schools and back home where she could keep an eye on him so that he wouldn't trip over his shoelaces and brain himself. And there was Robert, all 'survive'. Yeah. I was always astounded by the blind faith there.

[apinknightmare]

IDK, Robert said there wasn't enough water or whatever for all of them, and I think most parents would do whatever they could to make sure their kid survived, even if that kid was generally useless. He did leave Oliver with a heavy request, but who else was he going to ask to do it? So I don't think it was blind faith so much as just not having a choice.

[bijoux]

Maybe I phrased it wrong. I don't think Robert shouldn't have put his kid's life before his own. For all his faults, I fully believe he loved his children just like Moira. I just don't see how he could have expected Ollie to be capable of survival stuck in the middle of the ocean with a dead man. That's where I think the blind faith came in. Oliver's certainly proven to have survival instincts afterwards, I'm just not sure how Robert could have sussed that out based on his experiences with Ollie. It's not something that I lose sleep over, I can attribute it to desperation, lack of food, water, and sunstroke. But it did hit me when watching the scene that his dad told him to survive, only gave him no tools to do it, neither in the boat nor in his past 22 years.

[kismet]

Yeah, I'm thinking the rich thing was his chief benefit. I mean, I totally get going for Oliver, even if he probably is more than most can handle. It's Ollie I have problem with when it comes to seeing his appeal. But then I suppose his pre-island conquests are pretty far removed from my own experiences so I'd have no idea what those girls found attractive anyway. Yeah, Tommy doing the work would make sense.

In fact, when it comes to dancing (which is something that came up on the boars recently), I have my own head cannon. Moira made Oliver take dance lessons as a kid because anything else would not make sense. Tommy also went because while the Queens were messed up, they made sure to include him while Malcolm was off playing his sad little trombone in NP. Oliver was the jokester, while Tommy was quiet at the time, so Ollie started out as the popular one. Only once the dancing started he was uncoordinated and getting more horrible as lessons went on. Tommy on the other hand cut the floor like Fred Astaire and all the girls wanted to pair up with him, leaving Ollie shunned and pouting on the sidelines. That's why he doesn't dance.

Sort of going back to the elder Queens Robert's suicide always astounds me. Putting aside the emotional damage he was enflicting on his kid, that kid was Ollie, a complete blob of human tissue incapable of pretty much anything. If he had been my kid, I probably would have been afraid to let him leave off for college. Frankly, I imagine Moira would have been relieved when he was kicked out of schools and back home where she could keep an eye on him so that he wouldn't trip over his shoelaces and brain himself. And there was Robert, all 'survive'. Yeah. I was always astounded by the blind faith there.

This made me laugh, esp the italics!! I like your little head canon on the dancing. I do feel like OQ would be good at dancing, but I know SA is horrible at it ~ so there is no way to write into canon OQ being a good dancer. However, I totally see TM/CD being a Fred Astaire. The only thing I disagree with you on is OQ as a jokester. Unless they drastically change his character, even as a happy OQ - I never really see him as the jokester of the two. He makes a few witty remarks here & there, but I don't see OQ as a jokester.

 

Seriously, I will forever be pissed that they never really told us just how much MQ knew about the Gambit sabotage. Because how could any mother let their son get on that boat, knowing that something may happen to it. Especially considering MQ seemed heavily invested in her son. I originally thought she didn't know about OQ hitching a ride, but then they showed her on the dock. I guess it is one of the secrets we'll never know.

[bijoux]

This made me laugh, esp the italics!! I like your little head canon on the dancing. I do feel like OQ would be good at dancing, but I know SA is horrible at it ~ so there is no way to write into canon OQ being a good dancer. However, I totally see TM/CD being a Fred Astaire. The only thing I disagree with you on is OQ as a jokester. Unless they drastically change his character, even as a happy OQ - I never really see him as the jokester of the two. He makes a few witty remarks here & there, but I don't see OQ as a jokester.

 

Seriously, I will forever be pissed that they never really told us just how much MQ knew about the Gambit sabotage. Because how could any mother let their son get on that boat, knowing that something may happen to it. Especially considering MQ seemed heavily invested in her son. I originally thought she didn't know about OQ hitching a ride, but then they showed her on the dock. I guess it is one of the secrets we'll never know.

I can see really young Ollie being one, especially if it was shortly after Rebecca died and he tried to make his friend laugh.

Oh, so, Stephen Amell is a bad dancer? I've read comments about him only dancing wit his wife that I couldn't make head or tail of. This makes sense.

Yeah, since Susannah Thompson isn't coming back, I suppose that will never get cleared up. I find it hard to believe that she would have let even Robert get on a boat she knew had been sabotaged, let alone her son, so I'll just spin it that she only found out after the boat wnet down, when Malcolm threatened something similar would happen to her and Thea lest she fell in line.

[apinknightmare]

Maybe I phrased it wrong. I don't think Robert shouldn't have put his kid's life before his own. For all his faults, I fully believe he loved his children just like Moira. I just don't see how he could have expected Ollie to be capable of survival stuck in the middle of the ocean with a dead man. That's where I think the blind faith came in. Oliver's certainly proven to have survival instincts afterwards, I'm just not sure how Robert could have sussed that out based on his experiences with Ollie. It's not something that I lose sleep over, I can attribute it to desperation, lack of food, water, and sunstroke. But it did hit me when watching the scene that his dad told him to survive, only gave him no tools to do it, neither in the boat nor in his past 22 years.

I get what you're saying. He gave Oliver a chance, which is something I think most parents would've done in that situation, that's all. I mean, what was the alternative? They'd starve or die of thirst? He'd watch Oliver die? Neither one of those seem like viable options to me, IDK

[kismet]

I can see really young Ollie being one, especially if it was shortly after Rebecca died and he tried to make his friend laugh.

Oh, so, Stephen Amell is a bad dancer? I've read comments about him only dancing wit his wife that I couldn't make head or tail of. This makes sense.

Yeah, since Susannah Thompson isn't coming back, I suppose that will never get cleared up. I find it hard to believe that she would have let even Robert get on a boat she knew had been sabotaged, let alone her son, so I'll just spin it that she only found out after the boat wnet down, when Malcolm threatened something similar would happen to her and Thea lest she fell in line.

Perhaps a young Ollie, I definitely see him as fun person to hang around and someone that would appreciate a joke. When I think of jokester, for me its the same as a prankster & that just doesn't fit OQ. But a friend going out of his way to make his best friend smile again & be happy (esp after his mother died) I totally see in every incarnation of OQ. Even as a screw-up playboy, I still feel like he tended to put other's (especially his loved ones) needs ahead of his own.

 

OH yeah, there are YouTube videos of SA. I feel like they were somewhere on the social media threads (but honestly can't remember at this point). He's got the whole no rhythm, no coordination, bad moves even for a drunk frat boy thing going on. It's probably just your slightly worse than average guy who can't dance, but its not good. That being said, the guy seems to be able to sway and turn in a circle, so he can probably handle most typical dance requirements for basic social gatherings like weddings & galas.

 

I like your spin on MQ, but it still bothers me because it was so nebulous... they knew they were going to kill her - why couldn't they leave behind a note or diary or something that OQ finds in her personal possessions. 

[Soulfire]

On Vixen: Oliver finding out about the Barry/Felicity kiss, Twitter quality --

 

https://twitter.com/smoaksqueen/status/648732154281771008

 

Sorry if this is the wrong thread; feel free to move it.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Soulfire

[Morrigan2575]

That was funny

[SmallScreenDiva]

Oliver seems to think anybody who babbles is related to Felicity, LOL! That's cute.

[kismet]

I think OQ has too much FS on the brain... he literally thinks everyone could possibly be related to her. It's like he compares everything to her, she is his new ruler. The guy has got it bad!

 

Cute Vixen clip (thx @Soulfire). Surprisingly I think SA does better voice-over work in that clip that GG. I would have bet it the other way around.

[dtissagirl]

Oliver seems to think anybody who babbles is related to Felicity, LOL! That's cute.

 

I bet this is part of the Everything Ever Reminds Him of Felicity sublimation he had going on mid S3.

Edited September 29, 2015 by dtissagirl

[kismet]

I'm surprised the writers didn't try to sorta pun it in the final car scene by having him say "I'm felicitous" or make a classic FS joke by having her say something like - you know that's what my name means after he says he's "happy".

 

I know her name/role was not planned ahead of time, but her name really is one of the other twists of fate that make the couple seem a little more like destiny & not just good chemistry.

[tv echo]

On Vixen: Oliver finding out about the Barry/Felicity kiss, Twitter quality --

 

https://twitter.com/smoaksqueen/status/648732154281771008

 

Oliver and Barry really have a great dynamic - I love it...

 

Barry: "If it helps, Cisco's been calling you Vixen. Not that Cisco is the name of anyone affiliated with me. He's not. I mean, if there was a Cisco affiliated with me. - which there isn't.

Oliver: "Were you and Felicity separated at birth?

Barry: "I hope not - cuz if we had been, that kiss would've been weird.

Oliver: "You kissed her?"

Barry: "You know what? I gotta run."

Edited September 29, 2015 by tv echo

[kismet]

I love the bromance between OQ & BA. They really do have a good vibe. I feel like they each need the other to help ground them in a way. BA pulls OQ out of the dark and OQ keeps BA from floating away on his cloud of positivity/idealism. I wish we could keep BA and ship some of the other characters off to CC.

[Angel12d]

Oliver and Barry really have a great dynamic - I love it...

 

Barry: "If it helps, Cisco's been calling you Vixen. Not that Cisco is the name of anyone affiliated with me. He's not. I mean, if there was a Cisco affiliated with me. - which there isn't.

Oliver: "Were you and Felicity separated at birth?

Barry: "I hope not - cuz if we had been, that kiss would've been weird.

Oliver: "You kissed her?"

Barry: "You know what? I gotta run."

 

Gotta say I love the deep growly way Oliver said "You kissed her?" It's totally working for me. Haha!

[kismet]

I love the different voices SA brings to the character. Just to name a few, we have his - NormalOQ, Arrow (perhaps a GA), Ollie, FlashbackOQ, BratvaOQ, Al-Sha-him, JealousOQ, Felicity's voice, Thea's voice, AngryOQ and his You're Trying my Patience voice. It really is pretty big repertoire and adds so many layers.

[AyChihuahua]

Why would anyone think Moira knew about the Gambit ahead of time?  There's zero evidence that she knew beforehand, and based on her convo with Robert trying to get him to stop the Undertaking, there is evidence that she didn't know.  That Frank Chen guy set it up, but Moira didn't know beforehand.

[kismet]

Took it to the Moira thread regarding @AyChihuahua's post. :)

[bijoux]

I love the different voices SA brings to the character. Just to name a few, we have his - NormalOQ, Arrow (perhaps a GA), Ollie, FlashbackOQ, BratvaOQ, Al-Sha-him, JealousOQ, Felicity's voice, Thea's voice, AngryOQ and his You're Trying my Patience voice. It really is pretty big repertoire and adds so many layers.

My favorite may actually be his You're Trying my Patience voice. He can be such an old fart that I adore. And can sadly relate to.

[BkWurm1]

Oliver seems to think anybody who babbles is related to Felicity, LOL! That's cute.

I was actually annoyed that they basically recycled the same line he used on Ray.  It's funny if I hadn't already heard a variation of it on the show.  Barry quickly deciding he needed to go and outing Cisco were my favorite parts.  I can't hold it against Felicity when she outs Barry since he has zero secret keeping ability himself. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

These writers aren't very original. They've recycled stuff from the show in the 2.5 comics, too, so I've learned to just let go. Otherwise, my eyes would be rolling so damn hard and they've been doing that a lot today already :) Barry doesn't seem to have as big a concern as Oliver about keeping his identity a secret.

[tv echo]

On Vixen: Oliver finding out about the Barry/Felicity kiss, Twitter quality --

https://twitter.com/smoaksqueen/status/648732154281771008

 

(source)

[Trini]

I really liked that Oliver's 5 years on The Island/Wherever made him appreciate good cooking/want to be a good cook. It made complete sense to me. More character moments like that, Show.

[bijoux]

Also great is how he is able to mention that so casually.

[hogwash]

Whoever's in the grave, Oliver seems to be handling it well. He was actually AT the funeral (BIG PLUS). He didn't blame himself in a wtf "how the crap did you even come to that conclusion???" way. He actually volunteered information about the death and (more importantly) his future plans to deal with it. He was vague but whatever, it still counts. So at least, we know Oliver will be kinda rational about this. That's the light at the end of this crap tunnel for me. 

 

I also hope this season Oliver actually chooses this life. How is he still the guy who volunteered to move out of town with his girlfriend of a few weeks (a woman Felicity had to convince him to ask out)? The same guy who decided he was quitting the vigilante thing BEFORE he actually stopped the Undertaking?? It's been 8 years of this bullshit for Oliver and he still clearly wants out. Since that is obviously is never happening (permanently anyway), I want the arc I thought I was getting in S03. 

[kismet]

The only fanwank I can do for OQ being willing to leave SC to go to CoC with McKenna was that there were people on the list that resided there as well. Or better yet, he just planned to use his personal jet a lot.

 

Although, I really believe that if given the opportunity OQ would not live in SC. He seems to avoid going home whenever given the opportunity in FB and he seems ready to leave it at the drop of a hat. I just don't think he really likes his hometown.

Besides a guilt trip from QL & !comics!, I have no idea why OQ would want to run or be mayor of SC.

. Which makes his mission all the more challenging since it's always been about fulfilling other people's expectations of him. S1 it was his Dad, S2 Diggle, S4 Felicity. S3 seemed to be the only season he was living up to his own expectations and that required him living a solitary life of mission only.

 

I totally got his bummed limo rides in the season openers where he wonders what the point of it all is. At times he must feel like the bucket boy trying bail out the Titanic.

Edited October 11, 2015 by kismet

[bijoux]

 

Although, I really believe that if given the opportunity OQ would not live in SC. He seems to avoid going home whenever given the opportunity in FB and he seems ready to leave it at the drop of a hat. I just don't think he really likes his hometown.

This is the part of the flashbacks that really interests me. What was it that made Oliver decide to go back in 2012? Well, that and seeing Anatoly again but I've built that up in my head so much that I'm 99% sure it'll end up being a complete disappointment.

I've actually always operated under the assumption that Oliver loves Starling. I don't have any firm evidence to offer at this time, it's just a feeling.

[calliope1975]

Since I can't sleep, I was thinking about Quentin's jerky comments to Oliver about the Hood/Arrow/OQ himself being the cause of all that's gone wrong in Starling City, and I began musing about what would have happened if Oliver hadn't returned home. I don't know where this type of discussion would go so I'm putting it here for lack of a better place.

 

The various one-off criminals in S1 would still have been there including the many people who tried to kill Laurel because of her job. The Undertaking still would have happened except there would have been twice as many deaths and carnage. Tommy probably wouldn't have died, though, because Laurel likely wouldn't have been in the Glades trying to move files. 

 

Criminals would have still gotten out of prison due to the Undertaking so the Dollmaker would have straight up murdered Laurel and that was a pure QL villain. 

 

Not sure about Slade. He had a clear vendetta against Oliver. He also, apparently, after the Amazo went down, spent a lot of time becoming a rich, international businessman who was working on synthesizing the Mirakuru. Plus, he was crazypants. Perhaps he could have reined in the crazy if Oliver hadn't resurfaced, but then again, wasn't he already on ARGUS' radar as Deathstroke? Was that only in response to Oliver returning? I can't remember. 

 

I still think it's possible that Ra's or DD would have targeted SC because it seems like the kind of city they'd want to wipe off the map, but that's pure speculation. 

 

If I was motivated (and not so tired,) I'd go through the S1 and 2 VOTW to see exactly what impact OQ has had on Starling City. 

[kismet]

Since I can't sleep, I was thinking about Quentin's jerky comments to Oliver about the Hood/Arrow/OQ himself being the cause of all that's gone wrong in Starling City, and I began musing about what would have happened if Oliver hadn't returned home. I don't know where this type of discussion would go so I'm putting it here for lack of a better place.

 

The various one-off criminals in S1 would still have been there including the many people who tried to kill Laurel because of her job. The Undertaking still would have happened except there would have been twice as many deaths and carnage. Tommy probably wouldn't have died, though, because Laurel likely wouldn't have been in the Glades trying to move files. 

 

Criminals would have still gotten out of prison due to the Undertaking so the Dollmaker would have straight up murdered Laurel and that was a pure QL villain. 

 

Not sure about Slade. He had a clear vendetta against Oliver. He also, apparently, after the Amazo went down, spent a lot of time becoming a rich, international businessman who was working on synthesizing the Mirakuru. Plus, he was crazypants. Perhaps he could have reined in the crazy if Oliver hadn't resurfaced, but then again, wasn't he already on ARGUS' radar as Deathstroke? Was that only in response to Oliver returning? I can't remember. 

 

I still think it's possible that Ra's or DD would have targeted SC because it seems like the kind of city they'd want to wipe off the map, but that's pure speculation. 

 

If I was motivated (and not so tired,) I'd go through the S1 and 2 VOTW to see exactly what impact OQ has had on Starling City. 

I think you just proposed an interesting "what if" episode. I personally would like to see what they think would have happened. Maybe one of the Lances can fall into a coma and imagine it.

[lemotomato]

Since I can't sleep, I was thinking about Quentin's jerky comments to Oliver about the Hood/Arrow/OQ himself being the cause of all that's gone wrong in Starling City, and I began musing about what would have happened if Oliver hadn't returned home. I don't know where this type of discussion would go so I'm putting it here for lack of a better place.

 

The various one-off criminals in S1 would still have been there including the many people who tried to kill Laurel because of her job. The Undertaking still would have happened except there would have been twice as many deaths and carnage. Tommy probably wouldn't have died, though, because Laurel likely wouldn't have been in the Glades trying to move files. 

 

Criminals would have still gotten out of prison due to the Undertaking so the Dollmaker would have straight up murdered Laurel and that was a pure QL villain. 

 

Not sure about Slade. He had a clear vendetta against Oliver. He also, apparently, after the Amazo went down, spent a lot of time becoming a rich, international businessman who was working on synthesizing the Mirakuru. Plus, he was crazypants. Perhaps he could have reined in the crazy if Oliver hadn't resurfaced, but then again, wasn't he already on ARGUS' radar as Deathstroke? Was that only in response to Oliver returning? I can't remember. 

 

I still think it's possible that Ra's or DD would have targeted SC because it seems like the kind of city they'd want to wipe off the map, but that's pure speculation. 

 

If I was motivated (and not so tired,) I'd go through the S1 and 2 VOTW to see exactly what impact OQ has had on Starling City. 

I agree with most of this except the part about Dollmaker. Sara might have been around to save Laurel from him, since she went back to Starling after she heard about the quake. 

 

You make a good point about how often Oliver saved Laurel in season 1 from the baddies she pissed off through her job. She would've died as early as episode 2 when she refused police protective custody and China White went after her. Which makes QL's anger/grudge against Oliver even more ridiculous and unfair.

Edited October 11, 2015 by lemotomato

[BkWurm1]

So if Oliver hadn't come home, where would he go?

[apinknightmare]

The only fanwank I can do for OQ being willing to leave SC to go to CoC with McKenna was that there were people on the list that resided there as well. Or better yet, he just planned to use his personal jet a lot.

I never thought he was being serious. I thought he offered because he was her boyfriend and it seemed like the right thing to do, but that he knew she'd tell him no.

[kismet]

I never thought he was being serious. I thought he offered because he was her boyfriend and it seemed like the right thing to do, but that he knew she'd tell him no.

Oh totally, he knew she would say no. He was being nice. Was he even her boyfriend? I'm not quite sure they had got to that level, which is why the offer even seemed odder. Sorta like when he casually asked SL to get a place together. He doesn't always think through the other person's perspective of what the question might imply. Which is why I am glad with FS, he seems to be thinking more about what he asks or tells her, rather then just running with his first thought. He is properly filtering his thoughts and emotions. It shows maturity and respect for the relationship.

 

When I fanwank though, I like to have all my contingencies covered. So this tackling another part of the list or using his jet would be what might happen if she said yes.

[calliope1975]

I agree with most of this except the part about Dollmaker. Sara might have been around to save Laurel from him, since she went back to Starling after she heard about the quake. 

 

Yeah, I did wonder about Sara. She probably would have returned to SC to check on her family which means the LOA still might have popped up. I'm not sure how long she would have stayed in town if she hadn't met with Oliver. 

 

So if Oliver hadn't come home, where would he go?

 

I'm very interested in finding out why he did return. He's had multiple opportunities that we've seen so far, so what was the catalyst to make him finally return home? 

[KirkB]

My guess is Waller (and everyone else he runs into along the way) got finished with him and dumped him back on the island (again). By that time he was pissed at the world and ready to take out his frustrations by shooting his way through his dad's list so he headed home.

Edited October 11, 2015 by KirkB

[Happy Harpy]

The various one-off criminals in S1 would still have been there including the many people who tried to kill Laurel because of her job. The Undertaking still would have happened except there would have been twice as many deaths and carnage. Tommy probably wouldn't have died, though, because Laurel likely wouldn't have been in the Glades trying to move files. 

 

Criminals would have still gotten out of prison due to the Undertaking so the Dollmaker would have straight up murdered Laurel and that was a pure QL villain. 

Imo, the Dollmaker wouldn't have gotten to Laurel, because indeed she would have been murdered courtesy of any of the criminals who put a hit on her during S1. The guy in episode 1, for example. I don't think that Sara was around to protect her, then.

 

In the same way, I don't think that Slade would have targeted Starling without Oliver, but again, the Undertaking would have succedeed in S1, making it a moot point. Considering the nature of the nice ladies and gentlemen who were on Oliver's list, I feel that it would have been plenty dark, pre-Batman Gotham style.

 

Wasn't DD's presence in Starling the reason why Ra's targeted the city? I think it was explained on episodes I missed. So, Oliver has nothing to do with it, as far as I know.

 

All this to say, Starling was in deep, deep shit anyway thanks to his own denizens. I'd be the authorities, I'd check whether it's situated on some Hellmouth.

Oliver is victim of a "shoot the messenger" case. It's like when you report a crime, and suddenly it's as if you made it exist and it's your fault it happened. And RetconQuentin is full of shit.

Edited October 11, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[kismet]

 

 

 

ETA: I just realized why I feel this way.  I've watched many of SA's FB videos, and OQ seems more like SA than he used to.  I used to watch SA's videos and marvel that he could utterly transform into the smoldering OQ character. For example, watching videos of Daniel Craig interviews doesn't make me astonished that he plays James Bond--he has a lot of the same mannerisms, voice, expressions, etc.  Although I've always found OQ sexy as hell, SA didn't inspire the same reaction.  In 401, I felt like both SA and EBR played closer to their real personalities, and it took me out of the show a bit.

Gotta agree that I miss the smoldering OQ. And I miss the deeper voice. But I am going to see how the season develops and what happens. I feel like SA is still feeling out this version of OQ, so I will give him time to figure it out. He also always impressed me with his ability to demonstrate so many different layers & versions of OQ. So I'm not in the panic mode I was in after 401, when I realized that the broody OQ might be gone. Plus as someone reminded me there will likely be enough FB OQ to fill my smolder quota.

 

I do however hope that OQ does not become SA on the screen. There is a part of me that finds SA very attractive and then there is another part that gets turned off by his frat boyish & childish tantrums. And after his behavior a month ago on twitter & FB, my opinion about him took a big blow, esp. in attractiveness. I honestly always found OQ far sexier than SA & I hope that trend continues. I don't want to see SA cosplaying a superhero on screen (there is already enough of that in the Flarrowverse already).

[BkWurm1]

I'm sure there will be some present day brood to brighten our day as well.

[kismet]

This is magnificent.

 

Thank you for your compliment :)

 

Oh and another one about flashback wig.

I'm in the minority here (and probably everywhere). But I would like to have a moment of silence and a toast to the FB wig.....  It definitely has seen better days, and in 401/2 it was in rough shape. However, I will miss it. It's like that ugly piece of clothing you keep in your closet for sentimental reasons. It got me through the roughness & boredom of the s3 FB. Without those flowy blond locks blowing in the wind, not sure I would have been able to tolerate a lot of those HK scenes. However, I am glad we got a close shave FbOQ, because yozers he looks hot without the straggle of layered bangs.

 

However, I watched 402 with a friend who knows ARROW but doesn't watch it faithfully. And literally in the middle of the FB scene, she asked - what's he doing on an island, I thought he was in SC with the would be mayor? So I can see it being confusing to some if there are not definitive cuts between the FB & PD.

[bijoux]

I got used to the wig as well. I actually thought the one when he was found in the pilot was not even bad.

[kismet]

Rewatched 201, with my friend who is new to the series and it turns out there is one random throwaway line where OQ responds back to Shado in Mandarin. Slade then addresses that Shado is teaching him. I guess they did address it.

Also her husband passed through the room and casually said this guy's story sounds a lot like Batman. All I could do was laugh.

[kismet]

 

Is the costume a zip up vest with cap sleeves made of weapon grade polymar? The costume is far more hysterical than I thought. It's so 80s woman power suit in the shoulder area. Frankly, I thought perhaps the shoulder pads attached separately which still would have been kinda ugly. But now that they are attached it just is more silly. It really looks less like a superhero/vigilante outfit and more like a Halloween or Ballet costume for a Turtle prince.

 

I will say though that I like his new pants and glad they kept the boots. Also, very inconvenient posing of the finger and the phone - well perhaps distracting is the better word ;)

[bijoux]

One of the things I find completely endearing about Oliver is how much he applies himself. This is the guy who skated through life in general until he was 22 and everything went to crapper. Terrible grades in school, no sense of purpose whatsoever. Now? He's acing being neighborly, domestic arts and being a devoted boyfriend. He's so the type with color coded flash cards.

[kismet]

I was thinking about how much FB Oliver still needs to change to match S1 present-day Oliver.  I think, for me, it's not so much his overall actions, bc again, he was not a serial killer in S1 and he never killed a good guy.  So for me, I think it's his demeanor that needs to change.    (Plus his skills, since he couldn't take down a regular drug dealer a couple episodes ago.)  He basically just doesn't seem blank/focused enough.  The focus thing could come about from his determination to right his father's wrongs, which he doesn't really have yet.  But something else pretty bad needs to happen to him, which could get him properly blank/depressed rather than him necessarily doing really bad things.

I agree. Also agree that his skill set needs to advance, but I'm more concerned about them having enough time to put in more of his emotional & mental anguish. Its not so much that he needs to go the dark side. Although I love to see DarkOliver, even if it is just an act. He just has to be involved in a dark world, where he begins to lose faith or perspective - whatever we want to call it. When he returned in s1, he was a man on a mission. Unwilling to make connections or regain the relationships he had. He didn't trust that he would be able to have a normal life and accomplish his mission. He also had legitimate PTSD. So far the flashbacks have been bad for him, but I'm not sure they amount to the man we met in s1. He still hasn't been betrayed by anyone. The deaths have been bad, but not enough to warrant his belief that he is the cause of his loved ones death, that being near him puts them at risk. Also his kill or be killed mentality is present as a survival tactic, but it was a mantra in s1 and we are not at mantra level yet. Waller has twisted him but he has not to the extent he seemed so messed up in s1.

 

They better somehow have stuff happen that gets him there, or I will be very bitter if they try to say that it was all an act in s1. I can believe in the possibility that he used a wig & fake beard on the boat (even if I don't want to). But we had an Oliver in a very dark place for 3 years and his decisions were driven by that darkness and the influence of whatever happened in the 5 years away from SC.The FB need to take him there sooner rather than later. A lot of what he did in s1-3 made sense with him being forced into dark places and choices in his time away. If it was all an act then I will be mad for them selling a false bill of sale. I would go as far to say that IMO the FB have been getting lighter and not darker, which is not a good trend. HK had him in a comfortable home with rather nice & trustworthy friends. Being back on island, maybe traumatic - but right now he seems more like his present day put together heroic self in s4 than the broken yet still heroic man we met in s1-3.

[AyChihuahua]

 

So far the flashbacks have been bad for him, but I'm not sure they amount to the man we met in s1. He still hasn't been betrayed by anyone.

I would argue Slade betrayed him.  I mean, he didn't tell Slade EXACTLY what happened with Shado, but Slade did try to kill the heck out of him (and tortured him) after having been his brother for like a year.

 

Also, I am okay with the flashbacks only propelling Year 1 present-day Oliver, bc Tommy/the Undertaking/Slade returning/Slade killing his mother propelled Year 2, and Year 2 (and Sara being murdered/Thea being nearly murdered) propelled Year 3.  So he doesn't, for me, have to be so destroyed in the flashbacks that they cover three years of misery...only one.  Plus, he did try to redevelop some relationships in Year 1.  If you go back to the first season he was already starting to lighten up a bit maybe halfway-ish through.  I really think he was much, much more miserable in Year 3 present-day than Year 1.

[kismet]

I meant betrayed him in past of his/her volition & free will. I kinda give Slade a special pass because of the whole Mirakuru thing. There was a betrayal, but it happened as a result of the Mirakuru, so it's complicated. I mean it happened, but I don't think Slade would have betrayed him if the Mirakuru had not happened.

 

IDK, imo the s4-5 flashbacks have to propel the man we met in the pilot & s1-3 OQ to a certain degree because a lot of the decisions and choices he made throughout s1-3 were based on the cumulative experience of those 5 yrs away. He might have been in a happier, lighter or better place but he still carried the burden & scars of those years until his "retirement" in s3 & rebranding in s4. I think a lot of his decisions in s3 only make sense if you look at the how emotionally broken & damaged he became while away.

 

In many ways he did make some recovery and positive changes in s1/2, but they were never fully integrated into his persona, some were but not all or not as solidly as he/we might have thought. It made him vulnerable to a relapse and regression, which is what happened in s3. I think the double hit of the blown-up date & SL's death triggered him to regress to the more survivalist soldier isolation is best course of action for s3. And then s3 was a personal mental war between the man he wanted to be and the man he believed he was, all while Ras tightened his metaphorical noose.

[tarotx]

I think this year everbody involved on the island should be negative or evil people, so Oliver will learn not to trust anyone. He needs to not trust people and easily use his skill with ease. At the end of this season and most of next season he needs to see actual nasty things. So he'll be non trusting and disillusioned. But something happens that he wants to feel hope and be able to help that leads him back to his father's book of names.