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S01.E06: What Death Can Join Together

Tara Ariano

By Tara Ariano
in Penny Dreadful [V]

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Bec

Bec

Dorian Gray is going to go through the entire cast of characters in no time at this rate. In my fantasy, Victor is next, which causes Caliban to try to kill Dorian, but Dorian would just find him fascinating, so then Dorian and Caliban will have a fling...

 

Vanessa telling Dorian not to ask for permission and just do as he desires annoyed my inner feminist. I'm not sure what to make of that. On the one hand, it's a pretty rapey sentiment in the context of not asking a woman for permission; on the other hand, maybe they're referring to not asking Victorian society for permission... which - fair enough.

 

But what Dorian couldn't predict, and Vanessa maybe didn't know, is that when she gives up control in the throes of passion, she really gives up control

It's like Dorian is Buffy and Vanessa is Angel. Hee!

 

RIP Van Helsing. When Caliban killed him I was like "damn, not again!" Everytime I start to like a new character, he kills them. Which might be why my sympathies goes more to Victor than to him.

  • Love 5
spaceghostess

spaceghostess

(edited)

Well, that happened.

 

The dinner chat (over teeny tiny winglets of itty bitty cornish hen, squab, or whatever game that was) and what came after went a long way to finally convincing my husband that my pet theory -- Dorian = Amun-Ra and Vanessa = Amun - Et -- isn't completely crazy. On the other hand, Dorian seemed kind of surprised at the way Vanessa hot-footed it out of there. Could it be that he, like Vanessa, is merely a vessel for the demon rather than the demon itself?  I'm coming around to the idea that the portrait may reveal a twist or a clue of some kind.

 

Other stuff:

So bummed about the murder of Van Helsing . . . and yet, so impressed. I'd been wondering how Caliban would put paid his threat to take out the people Victor cares about when the only one we'd ever seen (besides Proteus) was Mrs. "Sorry My Lungs Collapsed in Front of You, Son, Thereby Instilling in You an Obsession with Reanimation That Would Be Both Your Triumph and Your Downfall" Frankenstein. The scenes between Victor and Van Helsing did a wonderful job of constructing a believable bond -- simultaneously father/son, mentor/pupil, and scientist/scientist -- between the two men. I was shocked and saddened, but had to admit that it was an effective way to move the Caliban/Victor (as well as Malcolm/Vanessa/Mina -- thanks, Exposition!) story forward. David Warner was pitch perfect here, and Treadway played off of him beautifully.

 

Surprised that Brona was still with us, but it won't be long, now. Methinks The Bride will make her debut in the finale. And woo hoo -- Sembene finally got some lines! Definitely looking forward to his backstory.

Edited by spaceghostess
ironclown

ironclown

Dammit, first Proteus, now Van Helsing. I am now even less sympathetic to "Caliban" than I used to be. I really wanted to see more of Van Helsing, but he did say "my life is practically over", and we all know what happens when people say lines like that in works such as these.

 

With all due to respect to Miss Ives, allow me to quote the wise man Troy Barnes from Community: "I have the weirdest boner." Nevertheless, her infernal, uhurm, internal entity seems to be activated every time she comes, so that may be a deal-breaker. Though she did the cutest mid-air twirl at the end of the episode...

 

Sembene seems to be the latest in a long string of those who think Mina's a lost cause, and I think he seems to be the most compelling one to say so.

 

And now, Mister Gray. I actually hope that we never get to see the portrait that restores his vitality every time he gazes at it. Surely, whatever they might show on-screen can never compare to what we're imagining it to be, Still, I am now taking bets that he'd come through the rest of the cast before this season ends.

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z couch cat

z couch cat

Well, all I can say is that Caliban needs to go, pronto! At first I felt sorry for him, not so much anymore. I know that Victorian vibe should be dark and violent, but this terminator style is not cute..

As for the rest of the episode was just "meh". I really don't understand Vanessa's infatuation with Dorian, everytime she sees him she looks hyptotized and I feel like it should be the other way round. Don't care about Brona at all, her character being so flat and uninteresting. Liked Sembene and that's pretty much it

I-Kare

I-Kare

 

Vanessa telling Dorian not to ask for permission and just do as he desires annoyed my inner feminist. I'm not sure what to make of that.

Now see, I saw it as her saying that gave him permission. So she was the one in control. 

 

 

I really don't understand Vanessa's infatuation with Dorian, everytime she sees him she looks hyptotized and I feel like it should be the other way round.

 

It's been way too many years since I read the book, but isn't that the point of Dorian? That he has this dangerous allure that folks find it hard to resist? That would go along with the way the scene are playing out. 

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emma675

emma675

 

Yeah I want to sympathize with Caliban because he is the Caliban of the show and because I think what Frankenstein did to him was so shitty, but the fact that he feels entitled to murder people just because they're linked to Frankenstein in some way, even tangentially, is just so ugh.

This. I'm sorry, but plenty of people had crappy childhoods and still managed to become decent people who don't go around murdering their father's loved ones. Caliban could have been sympathetic to me, but his whiney, arrogant, entitled bullshit is wearing on my last nerve.

 

I love how Vanessa is a part of almost every character's lives, but can someone remind/explain to me why Ethan is so loyal to her? I was kind of taken aback when he was upset Vanessa wasn't going to the plague ship with them and then again when he was lecturing Malcolm on being open with her. I love it, I just didn't understand where it was coming from.

 

As usual, I understood about half of what Brona said.

rozen

rozen

(edited)

Does the vampire only "turn" women?  Those were all women attacking them on the ship, right?  I admit for one of the big DRAMA scenes of the episode I found it a bit ho hum and all the shrieking got on my nerves so I wasn't paying full attention.  Now, the Vanessa/Dorian scene on the other hand...

 

I thought of it as a hint. Big Vampire baddy has nigh half a dozen turned paramours at his beck and call, but he leaves Mina human? Malcom seems in total denial that this is probably a trap gleefully planned by Mina to trap both Vanessa and daddy dearest.

 

Man, that can't let Vanessa have even a little bit of fun eh.

 

Edit: Victor seriously needs to spill the beans about Caliban so they can kill the guy already. He's a stereotypical emo teenager, but with unlimited strength. Not even an undead woman would want you Caliban. Dorian would buy them dinner and have the decency to sleep with them before spouting pseudo-philosophy at them.

Edited by rozen
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AzureOwl

AzureOwl

Does the vampire only "turn" women?  Those were all women attacking them on the ship, right? 

 

The Master Vampire in the plague ship seem to only have female minions with him, but the one in the tunnel from the first episode had both male and female vampires with him. It must be a matter of preference, 

 

Dammit, first Proteus, now Van Helsing. I am now even less sympathetic to "Caliban" than I used to be. I really wanted to see more of Van Helsing, but he did say "my life is practically over", and we all know what happens when people say lines like that in works such as these.

 

I was never all the sympathetic towards Caliban because nothing in the way he was mistreated justified killing Proteus, but now that he's confirmed his willingness to murder innocent people for no good reason I say... Let's break out the torches and pitchforks!

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sjohnson

sjohnson

As soon as Dracula and the demon meet, the world's over? 

 

Vanessa Ives' great interest in cutting Dorian before the demon supposedly showed up kind of put me off. Different strokes indeed. 

 

I agree the big action scene felt a little flat. Guns kill vampires, who knew?

 

Waiting for Ethan to ask his colleague for a favor in treating Brona. 

 

Ives' clairvoyance didn't tip her off about where her Dorian ran off to, did it? Funny thing clairvoyance, how rarely it tells you anything really useful to know!

 

Overall, this was very much a middle episode, without a satisfying thematic resolution, just pipe laid for a conclusion. Very hard to judge by itself.

TiffanyNichelle

TiffanyNichelle

(edited)

 

RIP Van Helsing. When Caliban killed him I was like "damn, not again!" Everytime I start to like a new character, he kills them. Which might be why my sympathies goes more to Victor than to him.

Exactly. I didn't give a damn when he was in the basement crying because I was still sad over Proteus's death and now he's taken out Van Helsing who was the first one to finally say the word "vampire"? Ugh, no sympathies to Caliban.

 

If Sir Malcolm had brought along Vanessa instead of telling her to go out there might have been a good chance of her picking up on Mina being on that ship. But Ethan was right, he wasn't trusting in Vanessa the way he should have.

 

Ethan's love for Brona feels a little sudden but man, I adore it. Kissing her after she tells him he needs to keep his distance. Telling Sir Malcolm that they would stay home for the rest of her illness was even more touching. I also like that Sir Malcolm offered to pay for Brona's final care.

Edited by TiffanyNichelle
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z couch cat

z couch cat

It's been way too many years since I read the book, but isn't that the point of Dorian? That he has this dangerous allure that folks find it hard to resist? That would go along with the way the scene are playing out. 

I completely agree with you on that. Dorian is handsome and hypnotizing for normal folk, but I was hoping that Vanessa would see through it, because she is not some regular missy... Oh, well I guess she has to have some weaknesses besides the nightly demon possessions.

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Shadowlass

Shadowlass

I completely agree with you on that. Dorian is handsome and hypnotizing for normal folk, but I was hoping that Vanessa would see through it, because she is not some regular missy... Oh, well I guess she has to have some weaknesses besides the nightly demon possessions.

 

Heh. Her weakness is sex. His primary interest seems to be sex. Of course she's all over him.

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spaceghostess

spaceghostess

I was never all the sympathetic towards Caliban because nothing in the way he was mistreated justified killing Proteus, but now that he's confirmed his willingness to murder innocent people for no good reason I say... Let's break out the torches and pitchforks!

 

"A riot is an ugly thing, and I think it's just about time that we had one!"

                                                                                              --Inspector Kemp

 

 

 

mister gloom

mister gloom

A couple of thoughts:

I liked Sembene's discussion of Mina to Malcolm best, possibly because it really came off like he was trying to stop a friend from doing something especially stupid.

Well, its official, I fast forward through parts of the Caliban story now. Do not give a flip about him and the actress. Although, the good news is that all of the easy to kill people around Victor are gone. Anyone else Caliban goes after that Frankenstein has spent time around is more than capable of fighting back.

Thirdly, while I think it shows lack of trust on Malcolm's part I also think a part of him was trying to protect Vanessa in a "They want her? Alright then I'm not taking her type way.

Lastly, this show really needed a 12 episode season as, for a normal 6th episode this would be fine but I can not see how the conclusoion will not be rushed.

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sjohnson

sjohnson

There will only be a conclusion to one story line I think. Since I still believe this is basically Frankenstein meets the Wolfman, Ethan dukes it out with Caliban over the Bride who is likely enough as some posters have said, Brona Croft. The hunt for Dracula and Dorian Grey's painting in particular I think unlikely to be resolved, but reserved for subsequent seasons. And ditto cures for the Ethan's lycanthropy and Ives' demonic lodger. (I guess that's what you'd have to call him, since he's not running the establishment?) They may dump Josh Hartnett as quickly as possible (they won't even pair him and Vanessa Ives who's supposed to be a raving nympho! Is she blind?) But Caliban will keep coming back...and back....and back.

ganesh

ganesh

...on the other hand, maybe they're referring to not asking Victorian society for permission... which - fair enough.

 

That's what I took from it as well.

 

Everytime I start to like a new character, he kills them.

I was waiting for VF to say, 'hey, that's the guy who was helping me with making the bride for you, asshole.' 

 

 

I'm coming around to the idea that the portrait may reveal a twist or a clue of some kind.

I'm guessing she is in the portrait? Maybe in demon form?

 

Oh, well I guess she has to have some weaknesses besides the nightly demon possessions.

Heh. Her weakness is sex. His primary interest seems to be sex. Of course she's all over him.

 

That's what I was thinking. She was horny. She likes sex. (Which is very un-Victorian).

 

I liked the fight scene. Although Chandler fired one of the guns right near his face point blank into a vamp's head. I was thinking he'd be flash blinded and deaf.

 

I figure they have to wrap something up for the end of this season. Probably not finding Mina, I think because I can't see where you go from there. Maybe Chandler turning into a werewolf? (If that's the case.) Because that gives them another weapon in the search for Mina. I guess wrapping up Frankenstein would be a good idea too because that's starting to drag for me. 

 

I'd like to see the portrait as the final shot of the season. 

 

I *need* to see Chandler, Dorian, and Vanessa in the same room realizing that they both had sex with him.

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luckyroll3

luckyroll3

I'm sad they copped out on showing us a little man on man action.  At the very least, they could have given us a morning after shot.

 

As someone mentioned upthread, it would be great if Dorian went through and seduced the entire cast.

 

Vanessa certainly is the poster child for not enjoying sex....if you like sex, a demon will take over your body ladies.

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Neurochick

Neurochick

Does Dorian have some kind of power that no one, man or woman can resist him?  I find him hot even though he's not my type, he just seems so up for anything.

 

Interesting thought:  Both Brona and Ethan have screwed Dorian, maybe they should compare notes.

 

I thought the scene with Dorian and Vanessa was flipping hot.  I didn't see it as rapey, because Dorian did ask to kiss her, I thought Vanessa was like, "damn, you must be dense if you have to ask."

 

So sex unleashes the demon in Vanessa?  Or was it Dorian who unleashed it?

 

I thought it was interesting when Sembene was talking to Sir Malcolm.  Interesting that he referred to him as "Malcolm" and not "Sir Malcolm."  It's like Sembene is a servant, but not really, as he basically told Malcolm that maybe Mina can't be saved and what will he do if that happens?  Also in last week's episode, when Vanessa came to see Sir Malcolm at the end, he and Sembene were speaking in, perhaps Lingala, so I wonder if Malcolm and Sembene often speak in Lingala when they are alone.

Dirtybubble

Dirtybubble

 

I thought it was interesting when Sembene was talking to Sir Malcolm. Interesting that he referred to him as "Malcolm" and not "Sir Malcolm." It's like Sembene is a servant, but not really, as he basically told Malcolm that maybe Mina can't be saved and what will he do if that happens? Also in last week's episode, when Vanessa came to see Sir Malcolm at the end, he and Sembene were speaking in, perhaps Lingala, so I wonder if Malcolm and Sembene often speak in Lingala when they are alone.

Maybe Sembene doesn't recognize the title of Sir?  I don't know but to me it does seem like he is more of an assistant than a servant.  I'm not exceptionally familar with African culture but if I remember correctly the markings on his face mean he is an important man in tribe.  He's either killed someone/something that was a great threat or somehow has earned the high respect of the community.  Either way he isn't just any ole' person that has simply decided to come to London with Malcom. 

 

What I'm curious about is Ethan's connection with Vanessa.  He seems to have a blind devotion to her and I can't remember a time when that devotion was warranted or validated.  Did I miss something?  Did she do something to warrant this?  I kinda want to say it's simply the experiences they've shared together but Ethan has shared those with every cast member almost, what is it about her that he sees special?  Psychic powers, wolfies senses? 

 

Not that I'm complaining.  Lord knows Vanessa needs someone in her corner right now.  It seems everybody wants something from her and Ethan is the only one wanting to protect her (I believe anyway).  It's a nice friendship.  Good grief the poor girl seems to get possesed by the damn devil every episode now.

 

 

Neurochick

Neurochick

 

Maybe Sembene doesn't recognize the title of Sir?  I don't know but to me it does seem like he is more of an assistant than a servant.  I'm not exceptionally familar with African culture but if I remember correctly the markings on his face mean he is an important man in tribe.  He's either killed someone/something that was a great threat or somehow has earned the high respect of the community.  Either way he isn't just any ole' person that has simply decided to come to London with Malcom.

That's a good point.  I think the role of a manservant was more personal assistant than servant.  I wonder about him though, why did he come to London with Malcolm?  I also think you're right about the markings on his face, tribal markings perhaps? 

 

What is it about Dorian Gray that makes him irresistible to both men and women?  Caliban would probably fall for him too.

ganesh

ganesh

Well, they've teased the portrait twice now. There's got to be something to it. Plus, he ran down to the portrait room to jerk off after Vanessa ran out on him mid-fuck. Or was that in my head?

 

Does Dorian have some kind of power that no one, man or woman can resist him?

I think it's been said already, but this is consistent with the book character. So, probably.

iMonrey

iMonrey

I'm starting to get really annoyed with this show (again). There doesn't seem to be much point in any of it except shock value. We had that great scene between Ethan and Dorian and then no follow-up, whatsoever. It's as though it never even happened. Everything is just shock, shock, shock. There's not a lot of it that makes much sense.

 

 

I admit for one of the big DRAMA scenes of the episode I found it a bit ho hum and all the shrieking got on my nerves so I wasn't paying full attention.

 

Yeah, the vampires aren't exactly stealth, are they? I kept thinking if they'd just stop screaming and shrieking every time they jumped out at someone and snuck up on them quiet-like they'd have killed them all. Vampires apparently aren't too bright.

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ganesh

ganesh

 

The show is reluctant to show anything supernatural on screen, so that was a big reveal.

Reluctant? Vanessa fucked a demon. There's vampires or The Vampire attacking Malcolm in Vanessa's room. Frankenstein's monster(s). I suppose Dorian's healing is on the 'magical' end of the spectrum. Mina keeps showing up and floating away. I don't know if reluctant is apt.

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Dirtybubble

Dirtybubble

Well, they've teased the portrait twice now. There's got to be something to it. Plus, he ran down to the portrait room to jerk off after Vanessa ran out on him mid-fuck. Or was that in my head?

I've never read the book A Portrait of Dorian Gray but from what I've heard he can't look at the portrait or it will age him (I believe it was suppose to be a portrait of himself).  I guess wikipedia would have more info but yeah I guess they are going away from the story on that.  Honestly I just wish Dorian Gray was a bit older....and maybe a little better looking.  I really liked the actor that portrayed Dorian Gray in the movie League of Extrodinary Gentlemen.  Someone like that might have suited better; this kid looks like he should still be in highschool.

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spaceghostess

spaceghostess

(edited)

 

I'm guessing she is in the portrait? Maybe in demon form?

Interesting. My initial idea that Dorian is the Egyptian soul sucker has changed since their Portentous Date of Doom. Maybe V and D are merely convenient vessels for those two crazy (demonic) kids. I like the idea that she could be in the portrait. Although if she is, Dorian may want to pipe up about it sometime soon. Unless, of course, he's the Evilest Evil who ever Eviled, in which case he'd want to hold his evil secrets of evilosity close to his brocade waistcoat.

Edited by spaceghostess
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joacha

joacha

 

Honestly I just wish Dorian Gray was a bit older....and maybe a little better looking.  I really liked the actor that portrayed Dorian Gray in the movie League of Extrodinary Gentlemen.  Someone like that might have suited better; this kid looks like he should still be in highschool.

Reeve Carney who is playing Dorian Gray is 31 years old. I think he's old enough. :)

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luckyroll3

luckyroll3

Quote: I've never read the book A Portrait of Dorian Gray but from what I've heard he can't look at the portrait or it will age him (I believe it was suppose to be a portrait of himself).  

No, he can look at the portrait. It's just that any aging, misdeeds, worry, concern, etc will happen on it instead of him, keeping him youthful and apparently sexy (which I definitely missed when I read it in 10th grade! Lol!).

I would love for there to be some sort of twist on what's depicted in the painting.

Dirtybubble

Dirtybubble

Reeve Carney who is playing Dorian Gray is 31 years old. I think he's old enough

Shut the front door!  31, really? 

 

No, he can look at the portrait. It's just that any aging, misdeeds, worry, concern, etc will happen on it instead of him, keeping him youthful and apparently sexy

 

Ohh, thanks for the tip.  So is thats what happening on the tv show?  All his naughtiness is being transfered onto the painting?  I guess we'll find out in time.

Shadowlass

Shadowlass

(edited)

Since the "secret" of Dorian Gray's picture is so widely known, I'm increasingly drawn to ganesh's suggestion that it contains Vanessa as well, or at least some other unexpected element. Why else would they be delaying its reveal for so long?

 

For some reason the way they've styled Dorian puts me in mind of Wilde himself.

Edited by Shadowlass
BuddhaBelly

BuddhaBelly

I'm still here for Caliban. Don't care about Van Helsing, don't care about Victor. I felt for him in that moment when he thought he was making a real human connection with someone that would understand. I don't know. I just like the monster, always have always will.

 

The rest of this episode was boring. I've gone on before about not getting the appeal of Dorian Grey. The actor is not doing it for me as any kind of attractive. I don't understand how Ethan and Brona fell in love so fast. Yawn.

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Irishmaple

Irishmaple

I'm running out of ways to articulate how much I love this show.  It's like the writers wondered what I would like, peeked into my brain and then delivered.  I am a bit disappointed that there was no follow-up to Ethan hooking-up with Dorian but I guess I can't have everything.

 

Last week's episode added delicious layers to the Malcolm/Vanessa scenes.  Now their mutual hostility makes perfect sense, adding a sharpness to their snarling at each other, and their sweet moment was so unexpected and lovely.  I didn't expect Vanessa to approach Sir Malcolm for approval and reassurance before she went out to dinner; and he responded like a proud father.  The Tarot reading was delightful.  I don't use the layout Vanessa did but it looked like the inner section of a Celtic Cross layout so that's how I read the cards she turned.  I was frustrated by her not turning the central card to tie the reading together but ones she did turn were apt.  The 5 of Cups is (in general terms) the card of betrayal and regret, and lay at the base of Vanessa's situation, the foundation of her circumstances.  An excellent card for every character on the show.  The Moon is a fate card and signifies things hidden from view; its position in Vanessa's reading hinted that this influence was passing and, sure enough, they found Mina.  The element of Cups is water and the moon influences the tides (I think the Thames has a tidal basin) so that's how Vanessa got the information she delivered to Sir Malcolm.  I really would have liked to see the rest of the cards.

 

I continue to love Caliban.  There's something about his primal hunger for connection that gets to me.  I could kiss the show for giving me that moment between him and the actress.  I'm willing to concede Brona seems the more likely Bride, but I could live without Billy Piper and her iffy accent.  Ethan's reluctance to take the medal was interesting, he seemed to shy away from it at first and only took it at Brona's insistence.  Perhaps it wasn't real silver?  Brona and her family never seemed to have money so if it was of real value it might have been sold off long ago, heirloom or no.  Or perhaps he was willing to take the pain because his acceptance mattered to her?  Their mutual declaration of love was surprising to me.  I didn't think their connection was that deep.

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Dirtybubble

Dirtybubble

Does Ethan's handling of Brona's silver medallion impact the theory that he's a werewolf?

That's what I was wondering as well!  I was thinking he was resistant of taking it because it was silver but I don't know.  If I remember correctly he was wearing some sort of glove wasn't he *shrug* so maybe that's something....I too was surprised by Ethan & Brona's confession of love but enh it was sweet either way.  And I was pleasantly surprised by Malcom's show of kindness in offering to pay for a private treatment facility.  I love it when a character suprises me with unexpected kindness, it seems to add depth to who they are.

 

I also like the idea that it's Vanessa in the portrait Dorian has.  As far as Dorian's appeal goes, to me he isn't what I would consider out right handsome but he has that confidence and just air about him that is attractive.  Intellegent, well rounded, and while not out right mean but somewhat mysterious those are all attractive and kinda dangerous traits that would make him more appealing.

 

 

Pippin

Pippin

Does Ethan's handling of Brona's silver medallion impact the theory that he's a werewolf?

 

 

He could be a Skinwalker or a Shapeshifter.  I tend to go for the latter because Skinwalkers, in the Navajo culture are evil witches who are only out to harm others, and while someone is killing people in a wolf-like fashion, he is still capable of loving and kind behaviour.

BollywoodLover

BollywoodLover

(edited)

Poor Vanessa, Every time she gets some sexay time she gets prepossessed by a demon. 

 

I am curious if Sir Malcolm pissed some vampire in Africa off. I am agreeing the Mina he knows is no more. Bitch should just save herself at this point just so we don't have listen her whine about it. I think Malcolm is just grasping to not lose everyone in his family. The irony is he is killing/ putting his surrogate family in danger. I am also glad that these vampires are the ruthless hunters that they should be. 

 

I still love Caliban. I am also curious if Ethan's "power" also gives him an immune booster. Hopefully.

 

Do you think we are going to see a Captain Nemo type of character? Or am just too enthralled with League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. 

Edited by BollywoodLover
ganesh

ganesh

I'm assuming Sir Malcolm is in the model of an Allan Quartermaine, so why not Nemo? Typically, a second season tends to broaden the scope and do some wider world building. So maybe they'll hook up with Nemo when they need a covert way to break in somewhere. I don't think we should see Sherlock, but I think it would be cool to have Mycroft involved in the same was as LOEG.

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