The Bold Type - General Discussion

[KaveDweller]

1 hour ago, TVForever said:

I know this is a random question:

Is this a different actress playing Oliver's daughter ( I think her name is Carly)? In fact, am I forgetting a whole storyline where Oliver and his now-ex were together raising Carly (who seems to be Jasper's bio-child)? I just don't remember seeing either actor before (and in Jasper's case, I dont even remember any reference to his character). I thought the daughter was Oliver's bio-kid from either a prior relaionship, or he was a sperm donor for a friend (something like that), and the daughter was now unexpectedly in his life full-time due to some emergency. There was no co-parent, which was why Sutton ended up having to get her from school when she got into some trouble ( and ended up making things worse). And I thought that was a different child altogether.

My memory of Carly was that she was the biological daughter of Oliver's ex, and Oliver had lived with both of them for awhile. I thought Oliver adopted her because the ex died and she was going to go into the system, but maybe the story was just that the mother died and the ex was just in jail or rehab or something (and is now out and back in the picture). But the story was always that she wasn't Oliver's biological kid. I don't think they have previously mentioned the ex now being back in the picture before this past episode.

I have no idea if it is the same actress. She could just be growing.

[TVForever]

1 hour ago, KaveDweller said:

My memory of Carly was that she was the biological daughter of Oliver's ex, and Oliver had lived with both of them for awhile. I thought Oliver adopted her because the ex died and she was going to go into the system, but maybe the story was just that the mother died and the ex was just in jail or rehab or something (and is now out and back in the picture). But the story was always that she wasn't Oliver's biological kid. I don't think they have previously mentioned the ex now being back in the picture before this past episode.

I have no idea if it is the same actress. She could just be growing.

Thanks. I knew I had to be getting some things really mixed up there!

[marny]

4 hours ago, TVForever said:

I know this is a random question:

Is this a different actress playing Oliver's daughter ( I think her name is Carly)? In fact, am I forgetting a whole storyline where Oliver and his now-ex were together raising Carly (who seems to be Jasper's bio-child)? I just don't remember seeing either actor before (and in Jasper's case, I dont even remember any reference to his character). I thought the daughter was Oliver's bio-kid from either a prior relaionship, or he was a sperm donor for a friend (something like that), and the daughter was now unexpectedly in his life full-time due to some emergency. There was no co-parent, which was why Sutton ended up having to get her from school when she got into some trouble ( and ended up making things worse). And I thought that was a different child altogether.

 

I know I must be mixing up a bunch of wrong memories- help me out here!🤪🤪

According to IMDb, it’s been the same actress playing Carly in all episodes. 

[tennisgurl]

To the shock of not one person, Jane already pretty much sucks as a boss, Kat gets fired from the first post Scarlet job she could find because she cant turn herself off for five minutes, and Sutton is the only one actually doing any real work. 

So not only does Jane give awful and nonspecific feedback and get annoyed when she doesn't like what her employee gives her (and it doesn't even sound like she disliked the writing style, she just disagreed with him on his take) and rewrites his entire piece, and then acts shocked when he isn't thrilled. Luckily, he was saved by having a tragic Dead Parent story, which Jane can eventually turn around to be about her own tragic Dead Parent story, and his story is about how he feels like he sucks for being a crappy man who let women in his life down, so Jane can get behind that. Oh, and she has the hots for him, which...questionable Jane. Questionable at best. Yeah things worked out fine for Richard and Sutton eventually, with him being a board member while Sutton is an assistant, but it wasn't like Richard was her direct supervisor, he wasn't even in her department. This guy is Jane's employee who she hired, and she is his direct supervisor, and her trying to hit on him, if she does, is insanely unprofessional and inappropriate. Of course, Jane cant even figure out that, if she has a problem with someones writing she should talk to them instead of changing everything in their article to better align with her personal opinions, so I can totally see her going ahead with this, despite it being a horrible idea. 

Also, I dont really get why she felt like his article was so offensive to her exactly. Men should, what? Develop psychic powers so that when women tell them to do one thing, they know that they should actually do the opposite? What now? So basically, no means yes? The fuck, Jane? 

I could understand Kat not wanting to work for a company that requires her to censor herself (even if I suspect that if she was a lot more desperate for money, she would be a lot more open to posting a few less tweets about her causes) online, which does seem to be a pretty crappy thing to ask of employees (even if more companies now are doing that) but she has really got to realize that sometimes you just have to deal with people you dont like or agree with, you cant fly off the handle every time and start screaming about what a monster they are at work. You cant get every single person who you disagree with fired! It did kind of crack me up that Kat got fired in pretty much five seconds, even if, of course, she got a second chance. I like the lawyer daughter, and I am already guessing that she might be Kats next love interest, which could be interesting, if predictable. I liked when she said how she made a point to spend time with people who disagreed with her, and that it made her think about her own views, especially considering Kat and Jane both really struggle with dealing with people that disagree with them, as seen here. 

 Sutton is hustling away like a champ! So it looks like she is actually pregnant, and an actual baby is one the horizon, provided nothing goes wrong. Glad that she and Richard are both happy, if starting to freak out, and that they are still solid through all of this so far, even with the long distance issues. 

Oliver gets an actual subplot! I liked his plot pretty well, and I am always happy to see him get more screen time, and not just as everyones confidant and advice giver, and while I get why he isn't thrilled to have his ex around...his ex is super hot, so who who knows?

[dubbel zout]

I enjoyed it when Kat accused the lawyer daughter of being for conversion therapy and the LD said she wasn't, and Kat was all, "Oh. Well." Heh.

[Aulty]

That was a decent episode - and its slightly annoying that they gave so much of it away in the promo.

DId Kat tell Alex only half the truth about her finances and she was broke because she donated so much to that shelter project?

Glad Jaqueline and Ian didn't stumble over that Miles hurdle - they are on a good path.

[dubbel zout]

4 hours ago, Aulty said:

its slightly annoying that they gave so much of it away in the promo.

I know—they totally spoiled the miscarriage. Way to give away a major plot point!

I loved Jane's outfit at the end—the coat and the black skirt and sweater and boots. She looked great.

4 hours ago, Aulty said:

Glad Jaqueline and Ian didn't stumble over that Miles hurdle - they are on a good path.

I really liked how Ian pointed out that just because he didn't have the words didn't mean he didn't see Jacqueline. It was kind of ironic that Jacqueline had said earlier they were working on communicating. It's not just about saying or writing stuff. Methinks Jacqueline needs to work a teensy bit harder in seeing Ian.

So do we think Kat and Alex are going to get together next? I kind of hope not, for Alex's sake. I wish he had more to do than support the women. He needs his own story.

I find it extremely hard to believe that the Belle doesn't already have a social media person, but whatever, Show. Let Kat transform how the place markets itself online to the astonishment of the Belle management.

[Guest]

I thought the miscarriage would be a fake out because they spoiled it in the episode promo (wtf) but everything about it was very in-character for Sutton. Megan Fahy did a great job. Acquaintances of mine recently lost a pregnancy the exact same way, so it really hit home. Interesting that the miscarriage is a catalyst for Sutton realizing she doesn't want kids right now. "Yay, more conflict with Richard!" said no one ever. It makes sense that she'd want to focus on the brand new career she's wanted for years.

I like Jacqueline, and Jacqueline not with Jane, but I'm not sure I care about her marital issues or her horny old man love triangle enough to justify this many subplots. How did Ian guess Miles was writing about Jacqueline if he thought they hadn't seen each other for 20-30 years? And obviously she keeps the article open on her nightstand for masturbation purposes, lol.

Jane's storyline is...not bad? For once?

This episode just made me sad Kat and Alex never got together. He is such a sweetie and his great chemistry with all the leads, but only Sutton deserved him. Man, Kat has really fallen on her ass. Even watching her "struggle" feels pretentious between the bougie bartending job and power struggle with mommy and daddy. 

[tennisgurl]

Poor Sutton, something always seems to be going wrong for her. I kept saying all throughout the episode that Sutton needs to take it easy and that she and Richard should be together for this, but I guess it took awhile for it to sink in. I am rather disappointed, I liked the idea of Sutton trying to navigate pregnancy/motherhood and her career, and being the first of her friends to have a kid, but I guess that wasn't really the sexy city story the show wanted, nor is Megan Fahy actually pregnant, so I guess this was inevitable. Now I guess we will move into a "Richard wants to try again but Sutton isn't ready for kids yet" story to create some drama, which...meh, doesn't sound that interesting, but I love Sutton so we will see how it goes. 

Also, thanks for telling us everything thats going to happen last week previews! Spoilers! 

Do not bang your employee, Jane. Just...dont do it, its a very very bad idea, and I cant believe that neither Kat or Sutton have commented on just how unprofessional and unethical it would be for her to hit on someone she hired and is the supervisor of. I mean, of course we need to always be checking in on Jane, even while Sutton is having a miscarriage! I swear, even when Jane is having a legit problem, I cant help but roll my eyes just a bit. And of course she finds a support group right away of other women who also had her same surgery when she puts out an ad, because thats how things work out for Jane. That all being said, this is probably one of her better stories, except for her crush on her employee, which I am just saying no to. 

I thought that, as soon as Kat started trying to find herself a better job within her current job, her boss would be like "I fired you like three days ago so maybe just stick to slinging drinks for awhile" but no, she gets to run her own podcast where she gets to talk about her many causes, which is probably a dream job for Kat. It does seem weird that this place has no real social media presence, but maybe because they want it to be exclusive, including the speakers they get? Isn't that kind of why you join a bougie private invite only social club in the first place? 

So are they doing something with Alex and Kat? I hope that they just stay friends, I like the lady who I think Alex is still dating, and I want to see him getting more stories where he isn't just supporting the girls. I did like them hanging out together, and as someone who gets rather attached to her stuff, I could totally relate to Kat being sad about losing so much of her furniture and clothes and all the memories attached. And Alex got Pokemon stickers! 

[dubbel zout]

7 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

It does seem weird that this place has no real social media presence, but maybe because they want it to be exclusive, including the speakers they get? Isn't that kind of why you join a bougie private invite only social club in the first place? 

They don't have to open up the events to the public; everything can be posted privately. But I'm sure Kat will have amazing ideas about how to monetize the content and she'll save the Belle from its inevitable financial troubles.

[KaveDweller]

Are there actually people who bother to hire a personal stylist to go to their kids kindergarten graduation? I guess they wanted to have Sutton interact with a kid, but that seemed super ridiculous.

This could be a really interesting storyline for Sutton though. I hope they don't make her and Richard too conflicted about his wanting to try again though.

I thought it was super inappropriate for Jane to even be talking about her mastectomy with her employee. 

[UNOSEZ]

So Kat was worried about Sutton.. Took the time out of her emotional selling off of all her old stuff to ask tiny Jane how she's doing..  Tiny Jane unloads all her emotional baggage.. And then does nothing for Kat... 

[dubbel zout]

10 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I thought it was super inappropriate for Jane to even be talking about her mastectomy with her employee. 

Jane had written about the mastectomy earlier (that she was going to have it, not necessarily the aftermath), and the guy said he'd read a lot of what she'd written. So it was out there for anyone to see already.

[luckyroll3]

10 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

So Kat was worried about Sutton.. Took the time out of her emotional selling off of all her old stuff to ask tiny Jane how she's doing..  Tiny Jane unloads all her emotional baggage.. And then does nothing for Kat... 

Sounds about right for Jane.

[KaveDweller]

On 6/27/2020 at 9:45 AM, dubbel zout said:

Jane had written about the mastectomy earlier (that she was going to have it, not necessarily the aftermath), and the guy said he'd read a lot of what she'd written. So it was out there for anyone to see already.

It's one thing to write about your personal/medical issues and have it out there for anybody to see, it's another to dump that information on an employee in a face-to-face conversation when they have to respond back to you. That would be true even if it wasn't a mastectomy. Unless you know them really well, you shouldn't treat employees (or bosses) the way you would a friend or a potential romantic partner.

[dubbel zout]

IRL, of course, but this is The Bold Type, where everyone expresses every thought that crosses their mind.

[tennisgurl]

4 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

IRL, of course, but this is The Bold Type, where everyone expresses every thought that crosses their mind.

Especially if your name happens to be Jane. You know that everyone groans when she walks into the local coffee place, because she will inevitably hold up the line to tell the barista every single thing that has happened to her that day, even if its only seven am. Jane is the kind of person where, when your server asks how your doing, she launches into a twenty minute rant about how her mom loved nachos but she died so now Jane hates all nachos, while the server desperately tries to find a polite way to get back to their other tables. 

[GaT]

Of course Sutton decides she absolutely doesn't want kids & Richard decides he absolutely does want them. Did this never come up before they got married? I guess Sutton's upcoming plotline is going to be coping with divorce.

[Aulty]

So may questions.

If Sutton had not lost the baby, what was the plan with Richard's West Coast job?

Sutton has always been very career driven - it almost derailed her wedding and might derail her marriage, she is lucky that Richard loves her so much.  I wonder whether she does not want kids or if she does not want maternity leave et al to take her away from work. Both her rolemodels Jaqueline and Oliver have wonderful careers and children and she seems comfortable with Oliver's daughter.  Maybe they go with a surrogate and Richard comes back to work in NYC and, like Ian, takes over most of the childcare?

At least she told Richard right away.

Kat will go for the Safford daughter so hard and its gonna be messy AF. They will make Kurt and Diane from TGW/TGF look like moderates.

Jane again with the assignment that triggers all her personal drama - this time it was surprisingly well balanced and I like how they work through her new boobs issues. I also liked Kat's suggestionts for dates with her boobs and the jokes the day after she walked in on Jane's webcam date.

[luckyroll3]

6 hours ago, GaT said:

Of course Sutton decides she absolutely doesn't want kids & Richard decides he absolutely does want them. Did this never come up before they got married? I guess Sutton's upcoming plotline is going to be coping with divorce.

This is definitely something to be discussed before marriage, especially with the age difference.  I honestly didn't expect Richard to get so pissed, but also he knew something was off given all their conversations this episode.  Also, right before their pinky swear, Sutton's face said a whole bunch and I was surprised he didn't push her to share why she was hesitating.  

The only thing exciting about Jane's storyline was the stationary store.  

[marny]

4 hours ago, Aulty said:

So may questions.

If Sutton had not lost the baby, what was the plan with Richard's West Coast job?

Sutton has always been very career driven - it almost derailed her wedding and might derail her marriage, she is lucky that Richard loves her so much.  I wonder whether she does not want kids or if she does not want maternity leave et al to take her away from work. Both her rolemodels Jaqueline and Oliver have wonderful careers and children and she seems comfortable with Oliver's daughter.  Maybe they go with a surrogate and Richard comes back to work in NYC and, like Ian, takes over most of the childcare?

At least she told Richard right away.

I’m guessing they wouldn’t be able to afford their nice apartment for very long on just Sutton’s salary if they decided Richard would be a stay-at-home dad. But regardless, the conflict in a couple between one wanting kids and one not wanting kids is a deal-breaker. It’s really not something that can be compromised on, and it wouldn’t be fair to the potential children to be the product of that “compromise”. 

[dubbel zout]

7 hours ago, GaT said:

Of course Sutton decides she absolutely doesn't want kids & Richard decides he absolutely does want them. Did this never come up before they got married?

I think it did come up and they both wanted kids, though not necessarily right away. Of course, at that point Sutton was still an assistant and didn't see that changing. Now that she's got her dream job, I can understand not wanting to interrupt it, especially as she's trying to establish herself.

I hope they don't drag this story out. As @marny wrote, no one should have to compromise their decision about kids. There are enough to be made either way.

4 hours ago, Aulty said:

I also liked Kat's suggestions for dates with her boobs and the jokes the day after she walked in on Jane's webcam date.

Same. I'm a bit confused at what Jane's angst is right now: Her boobs don't feel real to her? She wishes they were smaller? She regrets reconstructive surgery? 

The scene in the stationery shop could have been me. Paper/stationery/office-supply stores are my happy place. I don't go crazy with tabs or that sort of thing, but a well-designed planner is a thing of beauty. I was also a listmaker as a kid—my mom saved one I made for a sleepover with a friend, hee. 

[TVForever]

I actually appreciate that the baby story went in this direction. I wasn't ready for Sutton to have a baby. This feels like the bigger story to me- when a May-December couple gets together, these are real questions. And like someone mentioned, they "knew" before getting married that they both wanted kids, but they never discussed WHEN?  Of course, a woman in her mid-twenties, just starting out in her career is going to be in a different place than a 40 something mid-career man regarding having children. Of course, in the days when it was a woman's JOB to marry an "eligible" man and start a family, and that was the extent of her ambitions, that wasn't a necessary discussion, it was just understood. 

And I can see a woman in Sutton's position deciding that she NEVER wants kids, and then somehow changing her mind in 10 years. But she would still be younger than Richard is right now. The situation sucks, because they obviously love each other, but it's a real thing. 

[KaveDweller]

11 hours ago, GaT said:

Of course Sutton decides she absolutely doesn't want kids & Richard decides he absolutely does want them. Did this never come up before they got married? I guess Sutton's upcoming plotline is going to be coping with divorce.

I feel like Sutton and Richard did once discuss kids and Richard pointed out he needed to act fast cause he was 40, and Sutton pointed out that she was only 26 and wanted more time. They didn't really resolve it though. But it seemed like at that point Sutton did think she wanted kids. Sutton and Richard did go into marriage really fast and should have talked things through more. 

Sutton certainly has a right to change her mind, but Richard then has a right to decide to end the marriage if kids are important to him. I feel like Sutton's decision is a bit hasty. She was happy (but nervous) about being pregnant, then had a miscarriage, and now two weeks later is suddenly sure she will never want kids? It seems like maybe she wants to put a bit more time between the miscarriage and that decision. Some people do change their minds about kids. Obviously not everyone, but some. And she may feel differently about her job after she has been doing it for 5 years and feels more established. 

4 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Same. I'm a bit confused at what Jane's angst is right now: Her boobs don't feel real to her? She wishes they were smaller? She regrets reconstructive surgery? 

Something about not feeling like herself. Which I guess makes sense when you change something big about your body. Plus Jane is the type of person who dramatizes everything and looks for things to by angsty about.

Dumb question....is the reason Jane didn't feel the pin prick that you don't feel anything when you have artificial breasts?

[Kiki777]

5 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Dumb question....is the reason Jane didn't feel the pin prick that you don't feel anything when you have artificial breasts?

I didn’t get that either -  because you would still feel something going into your skin right?  I thought it was a plot point that would come up later, but maybe it was symbolic numbness, I guess 🤷🏽‍♀️

[GaT]

9 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Dumb question....is the reason Jane didn't feel the pin prick that you don't feel anything when you have artificial breasts?

 

1 minute ago, Kiki777 said:

I didn’t get that either -  because you would still feel something going into your skin right?  I thought it was a plot point that would come up later, but maybe it was symbolic numbness, I guess 🤷🏽‍♀️

Add my name to the list of the confused. It was just a pin prick, Sutton didn't drive the pin deep into her boob, so how could the fact that she didn't feel it have anything to do with her boobs? Implants aren't right under the skin, right?  Unless maybe she's got nerve damage & now Jane will have something else to drama queen about.

[dubbel zout]

20 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Dumb question....is the reason Jane didn't feel the pin prick that you don't feel anything when you have artificial breasts?

I think there is often some numbness after reconstructive surgery. That part rang true to me. Sometimes the numbness is permanent, sometimes not.

So it's the fake boobs that have Jane feeling not herself? That makes sense.

OMG, I just realized that Jane's dad is played by Kelly AuCoin, who was Pastor Tim on The Americans!

[Aliconehead]

15 hours ago, Aulty said:

Kat will go for the Safford daughter so hard and its gonna be messy AF. They will make Kurt and Diane from TGW/TGF look like moderates

I was pretty sure this was going to happen the episode where Saffordd daughter said she didn’t believe in conversion therapy. 

[dubbel zout]

I wonder if we'll get any explanation for how she can still work with her dad when he's for something as gross as conversion therapy.

[Artsda]

Sutton went from happy she was pregnant, distraught over losing the baby, to never wanting children? I hope this is just trauma over everything, because poor Richard. She never told him this before the wedding and he seems to keep having to sacrifice for her career.

[ally862]

8 hours ago, Artsda said:

Sutton went from happy she was pregnant, distraught over losing the baby, to never wanting children? I hope this is just trauma over everything, because poor Richard. She never told him this before the wedding and he seems to keep having to sacrifice for her career.

I took it as she didn't realize she didn't want kids until she was pregnant.  I think that's fair.  At 26 she probably hadn't thought much about what having kids meant before.  My heart breaks for Richard though.  I don't see them coming back from this unless she changes her mind.

[Cranberry]

Changing her mind could be problematic, too, depending on how the show handles it. It's really hard to do that kind of story without making it look like all women really do want kids and just need to get over their issues so they can fulfill their natural purpose or whatever.

Kat and Ava has the potential to go very wrong, too. I can't figure out the writers' goal... what lesson are the characters (and by extension, the audience) supposed to learn here?

 

[dubbel zout]

13 hours ago, Cranberry said:

Kat and Ava has the potential to go very wrong, too. I can't figure out the writers' goal... what lesson are the characters (and by extension, the audience) supposed to learn here?

That vastly different politics don't mean you can't love each other? I don't know. I suspect Ava's politics will be watered down somewhat to make the attraction more viable, i.e., she won't be conservative across the board, only in certain areas. Fair enough, I guess, as many people cherry-pick the parts of a party's platform to support, but it will depend on what they have Ava cherry-pick.

I'm wary of both stories, as well. There are so many ways for them to go off the rails.

[Cranberry]

9 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

There are so many ways for them to go off the rails.

Agreed. I mean, the two main "easy" routes are "the white woman teaches the POC to be less judgmental" or "the POC teaches the white woman to be less conservative," which both have a lot of issues, especially in the current real-world climate. I wonder if their plans will change once they can film again.

[tennisgurl]

Oh yeah, totally called Kat getting the hots for the conservative daughter, and it looks like she is feeling Kat as well. That is going to be an absolute hot mess on every level, as not only do they have very different political beliefs, but Kat got her dad fired for financially supporting conversion therapy! Every bit of that screams total mess. At least this means I dont have to learn the name of that brunette chick Kat has been screwing! 

Nice to see Jane's dad again, hopefully this means we can move past this latest round of Jane Angst. I am glad I wasn't the only one confused by the pin prick, what does that have to do with getting new boobs? They made her whole body numb? Is it psychosomatic? Thanks for the info, I guess some body numbness is common. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by tennisgurl

[dubbel zout]

40 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

is she so sure that she will feel the same way in five years?

I think it's rather patronizing to think she doesn't know her own mind. Yes, she could change it, certainly. But why expect she will? Why not take her feelings at face value? (Admittedly, this pushes some big buttons for me, as I don't have kids and was always told I would change my mind "when I met the right person." No, I wouldn't.)

For me, it's Richard who's the bigger issue. He's said more than once he doesn't want to be an older father. Will he want to wait five years to see if Sutton changes her mind? Will he change his mind about waiting five years?

[marny]

2 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I think it's rather patronizing to think she doesn't know her own mind. Yes, she could change it, certainly. But why expect she will? Why not take her feelings at face value? (Admittedly, this pushes some big buttons for me, as I don't have kids and was always told I would change my mind "when I met the right person." No, I wouldn't.)

For me, it's Richard who's the bigger issue. He's said more than once he doesn't want to be an older father. Will he want to wait five years to see if Sutton changes her mind? Will he change his mind about waiting five years?

All of this. I've always known I didn't want kids. I'm 43 now, and still child free. Fortunately I married someone who was on the same page.

At this point, it's up to Richard to decide if he's okay with never having children. Is there a chance Sutton could change her mind? Sure, possibly. But if he stays in the relationship secretly keeping his fingers crossed that she will come around, and she still doesn't want children, then he will never be truly happy and will always resent her. And if she does change her mind, who knows if that change will line up with his timeline? 

And I don't think Sutton's decision is just a rash reaction to having a miscarriage. I think the fact that she felt relieved when it turned out she wasn't having a baby just clarified things for her. For many women I know, how they felt (and what they hoped for) while waiting on pregnancy test results made them realize a lot about what they did and did not want.

[KaveDweller]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

I think it's rather patronizing to think she doesn't know her own mind. Yes, she could change it, certainly. But why expect she will? Why not take her feelings at face value? (Admittedly, this pushes some big buttons for me, as I don't have kids and was always told I would change my mind "when I met the right person." No, I wouldn't.)

For me, it's Richard who's the bigger issue. He's said more than once he doesn't want to be an older father. Will he want to wait five years to see if Sutton changes her mind? Will he change his mind about waiting five years?

Normally I would agree, because I hate when people say a woman will change her mind about kids. But for me the Sutton situation is slightly different because she previously seemed to want kids and just changed her mind about that immediately following a miscarriage. That's not to say she can't know, but it just seemed like a really fast change after a major life event, when people aren't always thinking clearly.

But maybe I'm also biased because I really want Sutton and Richard to stay together and I don't see how they can otherwise. I had no idea I cared about them so much until this episode.

[dubbel zout]

Society expects women to want children, so I'm not surprised that Sutton originally was okay with that even if she always seemed a bit ambivalent to the idea. She seemed to go back and forth between not wanting them so she didn't repeat her mom's mistakes and wanting them so she could do better by them. Which is completely understandable. But as @marny pointed out, she was relieved after the miscarriage. That's a pretty big sign she either isn't ready for kids or doesn't want them. 

RIchard and Sutton need to have a lot more conversations about this, and it might be helpful to bring in a marriage counselor to keep things from getting too volatile. Ultimately they have to decide what they want and both be okay with the decision. I don't want to see them break up, but it's not fair to either of them to not get what they want.

[Guest]

Kat is the epitome of gay disaster. She finds out Ava is gay, is instantaneously attracted to her despite barely tolerating her prior to this, and then says her name during sex like three hours later? Also, did they ever bother introducing her current gf? Who the heck is she and where did she come from? I actually think Kat/Ava have way better chemistry than Kat/Adena, so it's disappointing that this will be a hate sex fling.

Sutton/Richard...yikes. It's a stretch to believe Sutton just now realized she didn't want kids when she's been dating Richard, who's 40 and talked about wanting kids multiple times, for years. Still, his rage moment was scary. But they've driven home the true love thing with them since S1. Do you really think that the writers would divorce them? Maybe the actor wants to leave. That would be awesome, but they won't do it because endgame. Blah.

[KaveDweller]

What was the point of having Sutton and Richard get married just to have them split up a few episodes later? I am glad they did resolve the status of things, because I thought it was going to end with them in bed making up without deciding what to do about the kids issue. At least him leaving sort of settles it.

I tend to dislike when shows do episodes with separate stories instead of having the characters interact like normal.  This was no exception.

I was interested that they are having Jane write a "me too" related story while setting up a love interest with her employee. The woman she interviewed seems to have been screwed, but to write a balanced story shouldn't she talk to the manager who fired her and not just an associate giving his impression of things?

[GaT]

Why does Kat have nothing but problematic relationships? I am so not looking forward to all the upcoming angst.

3 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

What was the point of having Sutton and Richard get married just to have them split up a few episodes later? I am glad they did resolve the status of things, because I thought it was going to end with them in bed making up without deciding what to do about the kids issue. At least him leaving sort of settles it.

Did Sutton really think Richard would suddenly decide not having kids would be OK? 

Loved Freeform's disclaimer for the 700 Club.

[Aulty]

Kat: I initially thought that scene between her and Eva at her house was a dream sequence. It didn't really feel real - after their fight at the photo shoot, would Eva really be that mallow on Kat coming round for a surprise visit? Its interesting that Kat is jumping into something knwoing that there is a big elephant in the room (pun intended) while Sutton's marriage is breaking apart because they failed for a long time to notice theirs.

Jane: She behaved like Jaqueline when she was talking to Scott about Lord of the Rings. That bank employee was pretty chatty - as far as investigative journalism goes, they had it pretty easy on that one.

Jaqueline: Ian is really trying, bless him. Glad that Jaqueline realised how much she has blocked the progress in the end.

Alex: Andrew is the MVP. Alicia is stunning and how refreshing to see them talking so openly about what happened.

Sutton: Bummer, but sometimes thats what happens. I'm glad that Richard adressed the possibility of having kids with Sutton and her ending up as an uninvolved parent - I made a suggestion like that after the last episode and that put me right into my place.

Pitty the season got cut short by COV, with the finale next week there won't be much time to develop or close some of the things that have evolved.

[mamadrama]

I think I'm on Richard's side this time. I like Sutton, she's my favorite character, but he wasn't wrong in the things he said. However, I do wonder now if it's less that she enjoys the freedom (I think of the "cold, hard Mexican tile" speech from WHEN HARRY MET SALLY) and more that she's afraid of being the kind of mother hers was. If that's the issue then it may be something that could be worked on. Or maybe not. Some people just don't want kids.

[HeySandyStrange]

2 hours ago, mamadrama said:

I think I'm on Richard's side this time. I like Sutton, she's my favorite character, but he wasn't wrong in the things he said. However, I do wonder now if it's less that she enjoys the freedom (I think of the "cold, hard Mexican tile" speech from WHEN HARRY MET SALLY) and more that she's afraid of being the kind of mother hers was. If that's the issue then it may be something that could be worked on. Or maybe not. Some people just don't want kids.

I agree. I appreciate that the show didn't frame it as the big, mean, macho man trying to force the strong, independent woman to become barefoot and pregnant. I do feel for both of them, but I do think Richard had some good points about Sutton's flightiness and how she can be self-centered. It's nice to see a main character get called out on their shit without the other person being made out to be a complete asshole.

I also think Sutton could be shying away from motherhood because of her own shitty mom. Therapy might not be a bad idea for her. Maybe she realize she actually wants to be a mom, maybe it'll cement why she doesn't want to be a mom, but girl could really use it, either way. 

[dubbel zout]

10 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I was interested that they are having Jane write a "me too" related story while setting up a love interest with her employee. The woman she interviewed seems to have been screwed, but to write a balanced story shouldn't she talk to the manager who fired her and not just an associate giving his impression of things?

Jane likes to hear what she wants to hear.

I'm irritated by the burgeoning relationship between Jane and Whatshisname. Just because he has a crush on her doesn't mean he has to say something. So what if Jane is also interested? It's an inherently unequal relationship, and they could both be professionally hurt by pursuing anything. Ugh. Not every "outside" story has to tie back to one of women, Show.

Like the Jacqueline/Richard convo. Jacqueline is Sutton's grandboss. Why is Richard discussing personal issues about her with J?

7 hours ago, GaT said:

Did Sutton really think Richard would suddenly decide not having kids would be OK? 

I think she thought they might be able to keep talking about it. They're at an impasse, but talking about it means they're still together. 

I had to laugh when Richard was the one who left, after his complaints about being the one who always has to compromise. (He was right to be the one to leave, though.)

6 hours ago, Aulty said:

Pitty the season got cut short by COV, with the finale next week there won't be much time to develop or close some of the things that have evolved.

I'm pretty sure we're getting a whole season; it's just that Freeform breaks it into two sections.

7 hours ago, GaT said:

Loved Freeform's disclaimer for the 700 Club.

Same. Like "We wouldn't be showing this if we weren't contractually obligated until End Days. Change the channel for an hour and then come back to our regular programming."

[Artsda]

I agree with Richard's side on this, remember when the dinner party he was looking at the houses in the suburbs. Richard really has been giving in all the time. He even gave into the 5 year wait and froze the sperm.  Sutton knew where he stood before she married him. 

He even told the bartender, "he always comes around." Why should he always be the one to come around? Watch her end up pregnant again.

[tennisgurl]

What is even the point of getting Richard and Sutton married and then having them break up after a few episodes? They've been doing this love story since the start of the show, it seems like a pretty anticlimactic way to end things. Obviously this is a tough issue and there is no bad guy here, but...I do feel like Richard was pretty clear that he wanted kids, especially after that dinner party with his suburban friends. They definitely should have talked about it more, and obviously Sutton has the right to change her mind, but it wasn't like this has never come up before. It is interesting that one of her comments was how Sutton was afraid that she would be a bad mom after her experiences with her mom, which kind of makes it sound like this could be more like her insecurities and issues with her mom more than a definitive choice on whether or not to have kids. Sutton not wanting kids is totally fine, but it seems like the show is implying that this isn't just her not wanting kids, but a part of some other issue, and that just confuses things. Its too bad that they have seemingly called it on their marriage, I would like to see them at least try to figure things out, but if neither of them are going to change their minds, then I guess this is all they can do. 

It sucks that the shows most stable couple is broken up, especially as Kat and Jane are both entering into obviously messy ass relationships that are clearly not going anywhere. If Kat just wants to hook up with Ava once or twice, that would probably be fine, but there is no way that Kat could be in a serious relationship with someone who has such different political beliefs than her. Of course, Kats relationships seem to be pretty messy in general (Adena was dating someone when they first got together, then her thing with her campaign manager who she inspired out of the closet and then ditched, her fuckbuddy who she called the wrong name) so I guess she is consistent if nothing else. What happened with that bartender she had a thing with? Jane and her employee is looking like an even bigger mess, considering he is her employee and all. So now Jane is writing a piece with a Me2 bent, while she gets flirty with her employee? You know someone will have to explain the complete and total obvious to her about the inherent power imbalance here, because no way will she put two and two together. 

Jacqueline and Ian had a good plot, it was nice to see Jacqueline, who is so often framed as being so perfect, clearly being in the wrong in their argument, and her admitting that and being honest with Ian about her insecurities. Andrew and Alicia also had a pretty good story also based around being honest and people having to admit to their insecurities, which is something that I like seeing. 

 

[GaT]

3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I'm pretty sure we're getting a whole season; it's just that Freeform breaks it into two sections.

Nope, they couldn't do the last 2 episodes.

Quote

It’s hard because we were gonna see more of how it would play out and unfortunately we had to cut it short because of COVID," Stevens tells ET. "So we won’t really see the resolve or whatever the end is gonna be for all of these people like we would’ve if we had those two episodes.

 

[dubbel zout]

I had no idea; thanks, @GaT. Last night's episode wouldn't have been a bad place to stop, as it had some cliffhanger elements.

I really don't want to watch Jane and Scott (thanks to that article I know his name, LOL) "get closer." Their relationship is WRONG. Ugh.