S01.E10: Christmas Wishlist

[Gothish520]

8 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

My daughter was also in retail for a while for one of those craft store chains. She came home each day brutalized by customers who'd yell at her and blame her for their idiocy. I'm glad she's not doing that any more. So, I feel for you Gothish.

Thank you, though it is my own fault for choosing this line of work, lol! One of the nice things about online retailing is that the brick and mortar stores are just not as busy as they used to be. Even Black Friday isn't the hell of years past. 

[apn85]

7 hours ago, possibilities said:

I wonder if "I can't believe she's gone" means Ashley skipped town. She's certainly going too be in hot water if she stays, once everyone finds out what she's been up to.

I also think this could certainly be the case. I don't think Gary would be that calm if something had happened to Maggie. Between her keeping that letter from Delilah that John clearly wanted her to have right away AND trying to handle whatever this whole mess is by herself and not giving Delilah any warning....I could absolutely see her skipping town. I'm just curious to see why she thought handling things this way was a good idea. 

[debraran]

The show is all over the place, but Ashley is supposed to 'not be part of it" re Jon, but of course is. She knew what to delete, where everything was, took most of his calls. etc.  I'm sure she would get questioned quite a bit and she did delete evidence (although hard drive is still there) Why she kept the letter, when some was shown (a great post here showed most of the first page) was to me a way of keeping other things at bay. She had to know it would only be worse.  I'm glad Nash said he will speed it up because it's starting to feel like "how did Jack die" but not as bad.  : )

I also hope they show Rome in a realistic way with his depression, he wants to go off meds instead of discussing his side effects and changing them. He really hasn't had therapy, I hope they give that the time and serious script it needs and not having him act like Toby in This is Us (which was dumb) dumping his meds and getting worse.

[Clanstarling]

4 hours ago, debraran said:

I'm glad Nash said he will speed it up because it's starting to feel like "how did Jack die" but not as bad. : )

And not as interesting, since Jon's family seems to be coping better, and financial shenanigans are like Ambien to me.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Clanstarling

[Nancybeth]

I think someone else threw this out, but I'm wondering if "I can't believe she's gone" is about the woman who was getting chemo at the same time as Gary -- the actress was Marissa Jaret Winokur, who's fairly well-known, and it was kind of a weird, one-off role.  Maybe Gary finds out, via the nurse at the chemo center, that she passed away?  I think its a red herring, regardless, and isn't about Maggie.

And I was glad to see that Constance Zimmer is going to come back and have an actual purpose and a plotline.  When she showed up at the funeral I figured she was going to be a regular character and then I got confused that she never showed up again and promptly forgot about it.  And then she popped up in the previews and I was all, "Yes!  Who was she anyway??"

[HazelEyes4325]

11 minutes ago, Nancybeth said:

I think someone else threw this out, but I'm wondering if "I can't believe she's gone" is about the woman who was getting chemo at the same time as Gary -- the actress was Marissa Jaret Winokur, who's fairly well-known, and it was kind of a weird, one-off role.  Maybe Gary finds out, via the nurse at the chemo center, that she passed away?  I think its a red herring, regardless, and isn't about Maggie.

 

I didn't recognize her as Marissa Jaret Winokur (although I did feel the actress was somehow familiar), but yeah...she's a big enough name that I can't see her being cast to just sit and look pissed off.

And that would now be 3 rather pointed cameos...I'm not against having bigger name actors come on for a cameo before their actual arc, but it is becoming a habit with this show, which makes it less effective.

[apn85]

8 hours ago, debraran said:

The show is all over the place, but Ashley is supposed to 'not be part of it" re Jon, but of course is. She knew what to delete, where everything was, took most of his calls. etc.  I'm sure she would get questioned quite a bit and she did delete evidence (although hard drive is still there) Why she kept the letter, when some was shown (a great post here showed most of the first page) was to me a way of keeping other things at bay. She had to know it would only be worse.  I'm glad Nash said he will speed it up because it's starting to feel like "how did Jack die" but not as bad.  : )

I also hope they show Rome in a realistic way with his depression, he wants to go off meds instead of discussing his side effects and changing them. He really hasn't had therapy, I hope they give that the time and serious script it needs and not having him act like Toby in This is Us (which was dumb) dumping his meds and getting worse.

I agree! It is definitely feeing like "how did Jack die" in many ways. And when it came to that by the time we actually saw the episode where he died I was so tired from it dragging on and on that I swear my reaction was nothing like it would have been if they had just gotten on with it. I don't even think I cried! 

I'll second the Rome thing. If they are going to do it they need to do it right and do it well. I worry about Rome making that decision given all I am sure is coming up - whatever Jon did, Regina losing the restaurant, etc. It's just a lot and has the potential to be a big mess where Rome is concerned if he doesn't take care of himself.

[smartymarty]

IRL, Katherine would recommend Delilah to another attorney, one who specializes in real estate law, or bankruptcy even. But in TV Land, lawyers can handle every field of law, despite that it's an occupation with specialties, just like medicine. (You wouldn't go to a podiatrist for heart surgery, or a heart surgeon for bunions, but everyone thinks lawyers handle everything law.)

I too love Gary and Maggie together, except when he was pressuring her to get chemo. It really bugged me that the friends group was pressuring him to get back with her, but I guess "not accepting other adults' decisions" is a common trait of everyone in this group.

I truly hope that the writers handle Rome's depression well. Please have him and Regina find an acceptable solution to his reduced libido problem. I'd hate for depressed viewers to be discouraged from getting treatment because of this possible side effect. At least they're showing him happy, not perpetuating the fear that anti-depressants dull one's moods.

Regarding the mortgage on the house -- usually, if the borrower is married, the lender will require the non-borrowing spouse to sign the mortgage (as opposed to the note) too, even if s/he is not on the deed. That way it has legal recourse immediately against the collateral (signing the mortgage means that the signers agree that if there is a default on the note, the lender can take the house). Otherwise, it has to institute an action against the home's occupants. It strains my legal credulity that Delilah would be subject to eviction without any prior notice.

[HazelEyes4325]

40 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

I truly hope that the writers handle Rome's depression well. Please have him and Regina find an acceptable solution to his reduced libido problem. I'd hate for depressed viewers to be discouraged from getting treatment because of this possible side effect. At least they're showing him happy, not perpetuating the fear that anti-depressants dull one's moods.

 

This is my biggest fear with this storyline.  The way they left it, it sounds very much like "depression sucks, but the treatment is worse."  Now, they might change their tune in the next episode...but that episode is 4 weeks away and they've left us with this thought.  If that is the way they are going, I wish they would have held back on this until after the winter hiatus instead of people seeing a guy struggling with depression basically say "the cure is worse than the cold" right at the time of year when people tend to struggle the most.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, smartymarty said:

 

I truly hope that the writers handle Rome's depression well. Please have him and Regina find an acceptable solution to his reduced libido problem. I'd hate for depressed viewers to be discouraged from getting treatment because of this possible side effect. At least they're showing him happy, not perpetuating the fear that anti-depressants dull one's moods.

I really want Rome’s story be handled well because it is the only one that I am completely invested in. I would hope that as we find out more about Jon’s suicide they bring Rome’s story more to the forefront. It is a waste that the show is not drawing more parallels between two best friends who happened to plan suicides on the same day with completely different results. That really should be the main storyline of the first season. 

[Gothish520]

5 hours ago, smartymarty said:

Regarding the mortgage on the house -- usually, if the borrower is married, the lender will require the non-borrowing spouse to sign the mortgage (as opposed to the note) too, even if s/he is not on the deed. That way it has legal recourse immediately against the collateral (signing the mortgage means that the signers agree that if there is a default on the note, the lender can take the house). Otherwise, it has to institute an action against the home's occupants. It strains my legal credulity that Delilah would be subject to eviction without any prior notice.

I signed nothing when my husband bought our house, but he got the loan through his VA benefits, so that could've had something to do with why my signature was not required. He loves to tease me about how it's his house and my name is not on it - at which point I wave my wedding ring under his nose and squawk about the rights that come with that, lol!

[apn85]

13 hours ago, smartymarty said:

I too love Gary and Maggie together, except when he was pressuring her to get chemo. It really bugged me that the friends group was pressuring him to get back with her, but I guess "not accepting other adults' decisions" is a common trait of everyone in this group.

I truly hope that the writers handle Rome's depression well. Please have him and Regina find an acceptable solution to his reduced libido problem. I'd hate for depressed viewers to be discouraged from getting treatment because of this possible side effect. At least they're showing him happy, not perpetuating the fear that anti-depressants dull one's moods.

Yay! Another Gary & Maggie fan! :P I agree that him pressuring her wasn't the right thing to do. But like I said before, I also think she wasn't considering his feelings. Once they broke up that should have been the end of it. No more hanging around him, no more hanging with his friends (I don't care how many times they invited her to do things), just have the clean break and be done. He obviously couldn't accept her decision so just end it. He'd give up eventually. She couldn't walk away from him anymore than he could from her. I know some feel like she's doing it strictly because Gary pressured her into it but I don't feel like that's the whole picture. Yes, I think she is considering Gary but I also think her coming out of the fog of complicated grief made her realize some things about herself too. They are a mess but I find them endearing. I am worried about where they are headed though. 

I completely agree about Rome's storyline. It is a very sensitive subject matter and it's one you have to navigate carefully. I'd not thought about the message him wanting off of them because of his decreased libido sends out. They have an opportunity to create a really great storyline and journey for his character so I hope they take it and do it justice. I am also worried about how much support Regina will be to Rome once this all comes crashing down with the restaurant. I know she's going to be crushed as this has been a dream of hers. It will be interesting! 

[debraran]

17 hours ago, smartymarty said:

IRL, Katherine would recommend Delilah to another attorney, one who specializes in real estate law, or bankruptcy even. But in TV Land, lawyers can handle every field of law, despite that it's an occupation with specialties, just like medicine. (You wouldn't go to a podiatrist for heart surgery, or a heart surgeon for bunions, but everyone thinks lawyers handle everything law.)

I too love Gary and Maggie together, except when he was pressuring her to get chemo. It really bugged me that the friends group was pressuring him to get back with her, but I guess "not accepting other adults' decisions" is a common trait of everyone in this group.

I truly hope that the writers handle Rome's depression well. Please have him and Regina find an acceptable solution to his reduced libido problem. I'd hate for depressed viewers to be discouraged from getting treatment because of this possible side effect. At least they're showing him happy, not perpetuating the fear that anti-depressants dull one's moods.

Regarding the mortgage on the house -- usually, if the borrower is married, the lender will require the non-borrowing spouse to sign the mortgage (as opposed to the note) too, even if s/he is not on the deed. That way it has legal recourse immediately against the collateral (signing the mortgage means that the signers agree that if there is a default on the note, the lender can take the house). Otherwise, it has to institute an action against the home's occupants. It strains my legal credulity that Delilah would be subject to eviction without any prior notice.

I agree, re mortgage. Many times, as with my husband (and we aren't rich) they wanted him in person there for the second mortgage. I can see how forged signatures in the past had them change that. This is modern day so harder to believe. I know John has mail going to that overflowing mailbox in the apartment so maybe he had that stuff rerouted there. Why the mail carrier didn't have pause at no one ever emptying it (usually they report it) is another minor and not thought of scenario. Ashley doesn't take the mail, just looks at it aghast. : )

For me, I'm not as interested anymore how many things made Jon kill himself, I know it wasn't just the business, but it's getting more ridiculous as it goes on, so I'm glad they will speed it up when it returns. I'm sure the first day will just be the mortgage and meeting Barbara, later other things will come out. I hope Nash doesn't think if he demonizes Jon more, Delilah will seem better. Probably wont happen, she still is irritating and slept with his best friend in his bed and made herself the "kept wife" who knew nothng of finances or bank accounts. Again, this isn't 1950.

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

I hope Nash doesn't think if he demonizes Jon more, Delilah will seem better. Probably wont happen, she still is irritating and slept with his best friend in his bed and made herself the "kept wife" who knew nothng of finances or bank accounts. Again, this isn't 1950.

Delilah’s passivity in all of this is one of her most grating traits.  We’re supposed to buy that she was unhappy in her marriage, so her affair with her husband’s friend is perfectly natural and excusable.  All over the world, there are people with marital problems who find others attractive, but yet make a conscious choice not to compound their problems by having an affair.  Delilah didn’t just slip and fall onto Eddie’s penis accidentally, she had a choice and she needs to own up to it.  It wasn’t an accident, it was a decision.

Also, we’ve seen that she and Eddie were, at the very least, contemplating ending their marriages to be together.  Eddie has no steady job, nor does Delilah.  Are we to believe that Delilah was not doing any preparation for it?  Even if she’d been June Cleaver, the perfect little 50’s wifey, never asking questions about their finances, wouldn’t she have done some homework, figured out the family finances and tried to get an idea of what her income stream might be if she left her husband?  Did she think Jon would just move out and let Eddie move in and keep paying the bills?  She has been leading a very comfortable upper class life, is she really so stupidly inert that she never thought about the consequences of tearing it all apart if she left her husband? 

Edited December 21, 2018 by doodlebug

[debraran]

7 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Delilah’s passivity in all of this is one of her most grating traits.  We’re supposed to buy that she was unhappy in her marriage, so her affair with her husband’s friend is perfectly natural and excusable.  All over the world, there are people with marital problems who find others attractive, but yet make a conscious choice not to compound their problems by having an affair.  Delilah didn’t just slip and fall onto Eddie’s penis accidentally, she had a choice and she needs to own up to it.  It wasn’t an accident, it was a decision.

Also, we’ve seen that she and Eddie were, at the very least, contemplating ending their marriages to be together.  Eddie has no steady job, nor does Delilah.  Are we to believe that Delilah was not doing any preparation.  Even if she’d been June Cleaver, the perfect little 50’s wifey, never asking questions about their finances, wouldn’t she have done some homework, figured out the family finances and tried to get an idea of what her income stream might be if she left her husband?  Did she think Jon would just move out and let Eddie move in and keep paying the bills?  She has been leading a very comfortable upper class life, is she really so stupidly inert that she never thought about the consequences of tearing it all apart if she left her husband? 

Amen, I agree with you 100%. This stupidity of Delilah is beyond comprehension. When I had a card denied, I didn't look like a deer in the headlights, I didn't just say "how could this be?", I immediately looked into it, checked my balances, found out a person skimmed my card in one store and when I went across town, they knew I couldn't be in 2 places at once.  I was so frustrated at her passivity  and how they wrote that. Well, maybe it will get better or someone, Katherine maybe will make her feel stupid being so clueless. You can just hear the "I thought Jon took care of everything" in the coming script.

Edited December 21, 2018 by debraran

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

Delilah’s passivity in all of this is one of her most grating traits.  We’re supposed to buy that she was unhappy in her marriage, so her affair with her husband’s friend is perfectly natural and excusable.  All over the world, there are people with marital problems who find others attractive, but yet make a conscious choice not to compound their problems by having an affair.  Delilah didn’t just slip and fall onto Eddie’s penis accidentally, she had a choice and she needs to own up to it.  It wasn’t an accident, it was a decision.

Also, we’ve seen that she and Eddie were, at the very least, contemplating ending their marriages to be together.  Eddie has no steady job, nor does Delilah.  Are we to believe that Delilah was not doing any preparation for it?  Even if she’d been June Cleaver, the perfect little 50’s wifey, never asking questions about their finances, wouldn’t she have done some homework, figured out the family finances and tried to get an idea of what her income stream might be if she left her husband?  Did she think Jon would just move out and let Eddie move in and keep paying the bills?  She has been leading a very comfortable upper class life, is she really so stupidly inert that she never thought about the consequences of tearing it all apart if she left her husband? 

Unfortunately, I can buy Delilah because I have a friend almost exactly like her (sans affair - though she thinks guys are hitting on her all the time which, not). She would ask for my advice re: divorce and ignore any and all things that were practical (get a job, or at least training so you can get one, understand your finances and protect them). She did none of that, and her husband  ended up still supporting her for years after their separation (because actually divorcing requires some practical steps, don't you know). Don't get me started on her ignorance about practical issues regarding sex.

So I find Delilah unfortunately real, but extremely frustrating.

Did we actually see Delilah contemplating leaving her marriage? We saw Eddie, presumably talking to her. But we've never seen anything from her side (to my knowledge) that even implies she was planning to drop everything and run off with him.

[smartymarty]

15 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

I signed nothing when my husband bought our house, but he got the loan through his VA benefits, so that could've had something to do with why my signature was not required. He loves to tease me about how it's his house and my name is not on it - at which point I wave my wedding ring under his nose and squawk about the rights that come with that, lol!

It's not necessarily required, but it's smart for the lender to require. If you both own the house ---the deed is in both your names--- then the lender may be precluded from proceeding against the house upon default, until your husband owns the house individually (your death or divorce).

 

2 hours ago, debraran said:

Did she think Jon would just move out and let Eddie move in and keep paying the bills?  She has been leading a very comfortable upper class life, is she really so stupidly inert that she never thought about the consequences of tearing it all apart if she left her husband? 

I'm guessing this is the fault of the writers, not an intentional characterization. If so, funny how writers not thinking things through affects our view of (makes us hate) a character.

[HazelEyes4325]

41 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Did we actually see Delilah contemplating leaving her marriage? We saw Eddie, presumably talking to her. But we've never seen anything from her side (to my knowledge) that even implies she was planning to drop everything and run off with him.

 

No, we haven't.  We saw Eddie talking to someone (her) on the phone about it, but we never heard the other side of the conversation.  Whenever Eddie has brought it up since then, Delilah either "ignores" the implication or backs off from it.  We have no reason whatsoever to believe that Delilah ever had any inclination to leave Jon for Eddie.

[Gothish520]

1 hour ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

No, we haven't.  We saw Eddie talking to someone (her) on the phone about it, but we never heard the other side of the conversation.  Whenever Eddie has brought it up since then, Delilah either "ignores" the implication or backs off from it.  We have no reason whatsoever to believe that Delilah ever had any inclination to leave Jon for Eddie.

I agree, and I don't think that's a mistake, it's been written that way intentionally. Delilah was dragging her feet and placating Eddie. There may have been a part of her that wanted to leave, but it was not a given, unlike with Eddie, who was literally packing his bag the first time we saw him. I think others have mentioned, and I agree, that if Delilah would have him, Eddie would still run to her in a second. Although one thing I do like is that even when he was on the phone with Delilah getting ready to bolt, he said he had to make sure Theo was ok. If nothing else, Eddie is a great father.

[debraran]

3 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

I agree, and I don't think that's a mistake, it's been written that way intentionally. Delilah was dragging her feet and placating Eddie. There may have been a part of her that wanted to leave, but it was not a given, unlike with Eddie, who was literally packing his bag the first time we saw him. I think others have mentioned, and I agree, that if Delilah would have him, Eddie would still run to her in a second. Although one thing I do like is that even when he was on the phone with Delilah getting ready to bolt, he said he had to make sure Theo was ok. If nothing else, Eddie is a great father.

I know he seems to be but not entirely. He never thought of the repercussions of his affair on his family or wanting to be with Delilah.  I don't believe she would have left, but the pact of friends would have been broken also and probably any friendship if Jon lived. He didn't think of Theo when he went on the road. Reading his kid a book or making sure he gets to school on time and playing with him is great, but it's understanding the responsibility involved.  Time will tell how that pans out. I don't say "great dad" yet.

[HazelEyes4325]

42 minutes ago, debraran said:

I know he seems to be but not entirely. He never thought of the repercussions of his affair on his family or wanting to be with Delilah.  I don't believe she would have left, but the pact of friends would have been broken also and probably any friendship if Jon lived. He didn't think of Theo when he went on the road. Reading his kid a book or making sure he gets to school on time and playing with him is great, but it's understanding the responsibility involved.  Time will tell how that pans out. I don't say "great dad" yet.

I think Eddie is a great dad...when he is there.  But, like everyone else, he's not perfect.  I think the thing that keeps Eddie from being a "great dad" is his own immaturity.  As you said, he has no concept of repercussions.  Another way of saying is that he doesn't understand opportunity cost (something I learned about in 3rd grade).  If he wants to stay at home and "work on his craft," there is a cost--his wife has to be the breadwinner and has to work long hours.  If he wants to bang his best friend's wife, there is a cost--he destroys his marriage and puts all his other relationships in jeopardy.  If he wants to go on tour, there is a cost--he no longer has time with his own son, at a time when his son needs consistency in his life.  So, when Eddie makes these choices, he seems to be completely flabbergasted that he doesn't get to have his cake and eat it, too.  As a father, his son becomes part of the cost...and that is heartbreaking.

[sinkwriter]

Quote

I saw the guy walk up, I just didn't think it looked like that much stuff. It was a Christmas tree lot, things are big. It didn't seem to be overflowing. Plus, since the woman wasn't holding anything, obviously she was waiting for someone to come join her. I might be a little annoyed, but not annoyed enough to make a scene like that.

I think if the couple had been nicer to Gary and Maggie about it, they might have let it go. But first that husband had a truckload of crap (it was definitely a cartful or flatbed full of stuff), and second, he cut in front of them, and third, when Gary and Maggie asked nicely if it would be okay since they only had one item, the couple was rude to them. So... it's not my choice to double down and give the rude couple a bunch of crap for their rudeness, but I have a friend who totally would in that circumstance (with me standing there turning bright red and feeling totally embarrassed, LOL), because my friend doesn't like people who are illogical or insulting, which that wife totally was. So, it wasn't cool of Gary and Maggie, but a part of me understood their behavior because that part of me would have wished that if I were in that circumstance I could have at least been brave enough to call out rude behavior with a quick, "Uh... we were here first and you just cut in front of us with a truckload of stuff." Not because I can't wait, but because some people need to be reminded that it's not acceptable behavior. If not, they continue to get away with it every damn time, because they think they can.

Anyway... that scene cracked me up, mainly because once they started in on the "we both have / had cancer," Gary immediately followed it with his traditional comment "Yep, men get breast cancer too," which made me sad the first few times he's said it, that he has to defend himself from people who feel like he's weird for getting breast cancer or something, but now I laugh whenever he says it, because he says it to ANYONE who pauses or looks at him funny when he says he had breast cancer. It's like a line meant for a Million Little Things drinking game. "Drink a shot anytime Gary tells someone that men get breast cancer too."  ;)

P.S. I was begging Gary not to kiss Maggie after she threw up. Just begging the TV screen... LOL. That was nasty. I'm glad he was so happy that she's undergoing treatment, but still... nasty.

P.S. If Ashley and Jon had an affair... *sigh ... Way too cliche. I hope that's not the real story, come January or whenever the show comes back.

Edited December 23, 2018 by sinkwriter

[apn85]

9 hours ago, sinkwriter said:

P.S. I was begging Gary not to kiss Maggie after she threw up. Just begging the TV screen... LOL. That was nasty. I'm glad he was so happy that she's undergoing treatment, but still... nasty.

P.S. If Ashley and Jon had an affair... *sigh ... Way too cliche. I hope that's not the real story, come January or whenever the show comes back.

LOL!!! It's nasty but I guess love is blind....or makes you forget you have a lapful of vomit. I certainly wouldn't do it but hey....to each their own! :P 

As for Ashley and Jon - I am hoping they didn't. I am hoping it was just one kiss and nothing more than that. Like you say, it'll be soooo cliche if the boss/secretary had this torrid love affair. 

[smartymarty]

Quote

Plus, since the woman wasn't holding anything, obviously she was waiting for someone to come join her.

To me that was the point. The woman was saving a place in line for her husband to then join her with all their stuff. That's not how lines work! I was glad Maggie and Gary called them out on it.
 

I once was waiting on a subway platform in NYC, rush hour, you knew three trains would come in, fill, and leave before you'd be close enough to get on. I heard a woman behind me saying "excuse me, excuse me." People were letting her through. She got to me and I asked "Are you just trying to get in front of all of us also waiting here???" And everyone in front of me closed ranks. Cute of her to try, but no. Just no.

I once had a guy kiss me after I'd thrown up. I thought "either a cute story at our wedding, or a bad omen." It was the latter.

[doodlebug]

4 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

To me that was the point. The woman was saving a place in line for her husband to then join her with all their stuff. That's not how lines work! I was glad Maggie and Gary called them out on it.
 

I once was waiting on a subway platform in NYC, rush hour, you knew three trains would come in, fill, and leave before you'd be close enough to get on. I heard a woman behind me saying "excuse me, excuse me." People were letting her through. She got to me and I asked "Are you just trying to get in front of all of us also waiting here???" And everyone in front of me closed ranks. Cute of her to try, but no. Just no.

I once had a guy kiss me after I'd thrown up. I thought "either a cute story at our wedding, or a bad omen." It was the latter.

I agree on the woman waiting in line.  It looked to me like she and the hubby decided that, since the place was busy, she'd get in line while he shopped so they wouldn't have to wait to check out.  Not kosher, IMO.  I don't think it was necessary to start a war with them, but I probably would've asked what they were doing if it had been me.

[Neurochick]

On 12/13/2018 at 8:34 AM, WhosThatGirl said:

They call most tv shows that air their last show before the holidays, mid season finales. I think they should stop doing this too, because people tend to get confused and think this means the show is over j til next fall. They should just say until we return in January. There’s no need to use finale.

What’s confusing?  The winter finale ends the calendar year and the season finale ends the season.

[HazelEyes4325]

2 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

What’s confusing?  The winter finale ends the calendar year and the season finale ends the season.

I see a lot of people on social media (not on PTV...we're the savvy ones) who think winter finale = season finale.  I think it is clear, but apparently, a lot of people don't.  I do think the "winter finale" concept is relatively new, though.  It used to be just expected that new shows would stop airing in mid-December until early or mid-January and no one batted an eyelash over it.  Then, someone thought (I'm guessing) that they could boost ratings by calling is a winter finale.

[WhosThatGirl]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

What’s confusing?  The winter finale ends the calendar year and the season finale ends the season.

I meant I don’t find it confusing but like the poster above me said people on social media get confused about the wording. And yeah I do think the new thing is to

say mid season finale. 

[debraran]

Re the line, I don't think you should be in line without things but I've done that when I was paying and my daughter was still "looking". For instance, I'm in TJ Maxx and getting 3 things for both of us, it's a long line and I tell her to browse since she's antsy and if she finds something, bring it back. If she was paying, I'd say get in the back. Cutting with a lot of stuff though is cheating. : )

[HazelEyes4325]

3 hours ago, debraran said:

Re the line, I don't think you should be in line without things but I've done that when I was paying and my daughter was still "looking". For instance, I'm in TJ Maxx and getting 3 things for both of us, it's a long line and I tell her to browse since she's antsy and if she finds something, bring it back. If she was paying, I'd say get in the back. Cutting with a lot of stuff though is cheating. : )

I don't know if it is a regional thing, but here the practice on Black Friday (or so I've been told--I stay away from stores on Black Friday) is to go in pairs and one person stands in line while the other shops.  I guess if everyone does it, it's okay.

But, back to this show...there is a sea of difference between just letting people cut in front of you and making the scene that Gary and Maggie did.  Were the other people in line wrong in their behavior?  Yeah, probably.  Does that warrant whatever the hell it was that Gary and Maggie did?  Absolutely not. It is actually possible to say, "Excuse me, but you cut ahead of us and we only have this one package of lights.  Would you mind if we went ahead of you?" and, if the answer is no, a pointed "Well, Merry Christmas to you" (or, if you are in the South, "Bless your heart") is appropriate.  Acting like two entitled jerks is never okay, no matter what the circumstance.

[tvfanatic13]

On 12/15/2018 at 9:51 PM, ams1001 said:

I was a mess when my ex's dog died, and I didn't even live with him anymore (but, long-story-short, my parents had the dog for the last 7 months or so of his life). To the point where the next morning my boss passed my desk on his way in and just motioned me into his office and let me tell him all about what had happened the night before when we unexpectedly had to make the decision to let him go (telling the story still makes me tear up). I loved that dog. It's been ten years almost and he's still my avatar on several websites. (Hell, I might have ended things earlier if it weren't for him.)

I think my mom cried more when we put her cat to sleep this summer than when her sister died a few months earlier. 

So sorry AMS1001! My beloved dog is on his last legs and I am so happy I got through the holiday season (almost!).

I echo so many of the comments here, but damn if I didn’t tear up when they were at the bus. Maybe it was the song, but still. I came to this show for Roday and Parks and I am staying for virtually all of them. 

ETA: My wife had cancer (5 years cancer free!) and those chemo scenes did me in!

Edited December 28, 2018 by tvfanatic13

[cardigirl]

If y'all can stand one more line story.  (For the record, I thought Gary and Maggie were way out of line, and after the first comment I would have NOT let them by, no matter what, MERRY CHRISTMAS.)  What has happened to me is this:  I'll be in line, the proper line, and a cashier will wave me over to the 8 items or less line and just as I am going through it, someone comes rushing up behind me, sees I have 20 items and begins to give the BIG lecture about the 8 items only line and how I must believe the rules are for EVERYONE else but me, on and on and on at the top of their lungs and when I try to explain that I was given permission to get into that line, they get even angrier.  It's happened to me twice, both times the cashier did not help out by saying yes they asked me to move over to that line, and so from now on, I'm not moving over, no matter how many time the cashier begs me to.  It's not worth getting yelled at.  People have NO PATIENCE. 

[debraran]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

If y'all can stand one more line story.  (For the record, I thought Gary and Maggie were way out of line, and after the first comment I would have NOT let them by, no matter what, MERRY CHRISTMAS.)  What has happened to me is this:  I'll be in line, the proper line, and a cashier will wave me over to the 8 items or less line and just as I am going through it, someone comes rushing up behind me, sees I have 20 items and begins to give the BIG lecture about the 8 items only line and how I must believe the rules are for EVERYONE else but me, on and on and on at the top of their lungs and when I try to explain that I was given permission to get into that line, they get even angrier.  It's happened to me twice, both times the cashier did not help out by saying yes they asked me to move over to that line, and so from now on, I'm not moving over, no matter how many time the cashier begs me to.  It's not worth getting yelled at.  People have NO PATIENCE. 

Been there too, but my BIGGEST pet peeve is when they say, opening new line, "The next in line" and the last person in line goes. Only once has the cashier been bold enough to say, "No Next in line is this person".

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, cardigirl said:

If y'all can stand one more line story.  (For the record, I thought Gary and Maggie were way out of line, and after the first comment I would have NOT let them by, no matter what, MERRY CHRISTMAS.)  What has happened to me is this:  I'll be in line, the proper line, and a cashier will wave me over to the 8 items or less line and just as I am going through it, someone comes rushing up behind me, sees I have 20 items and begins to give the BIG lecture about the 8 items only line and how I must believe the rules are for EVERYONE else but me, on and on and on at the top of their lungs and when I try to explain that I was given permission to get into that line, they get even angrier.  It's happened to me twice, both times the cashier did not help out by saying yes they asked me to move over to that line, and so from now on, I'm not moving over, no matter how many time the cashier begs me to.  It's not worth getting yelled at.  People have NO PATIENCE. 

I haven't been yelled at (guess people are more polite here), but I'm always anxious that I will be.

[alexvillage]

On 12/20/2018 at 1:09 PM, smartymarty said:

IRL, Katherine would recommend Delilah to another attorney, one who specializes in real estate law, or bankruptcy even. But in TV Land, lawyers can handle every field of law, despite that it's an occupation with specialties, just like medicine. (You wouldn't go to a podiatrist for heart surgery, or a heart surgeon for bunions, but everyone thinks lawyers handle everything law.)

I think Katherine is a real estate lawyer?

On 12/20/2018 at 1:09 PM, smartymarty said:

I truly hope that the writers handle Rome's depression well. Please have him and Regina find an acceptable solution to his reduced libido problem. I'd hate for depressed viewers to be discouraged from getting treatment because of this possible side effect. At least they're showing him happy, not perpetuating the fear that anti-depressants dull one's moods.

While it is true that some medications can reduce libido, there are many that don't. Doctors do change meds all the time, trying new things. So. it does't have to be meds-or-no-meds situation. Of course, being TV, it is possible. I also hope that they don't go the inspo porn way, the ableist way of dealing with depression.

 

On 12/20/2018 at 1:09 PM, smartymarty said:

Regarding the mortgage on the house -- usually, if the borrower is married, the lender will require the non-borrowing spouse to sign the mortgage (as opposed to the note) too, even if s/he is not on the deed. That way it has legal recourse immediately against the collateral (signing the mortgage means that the signers agree that if there is a default on the note, the lender can take the house). Otherwise, it has to institute an action against the home's occupants. It strains my legal credulity that Delilah would be subject to eviction without any prior notice.

On the first house I bought with my husband, I signed the mortgage papers but I wasn't in the mortgage itself, meaning I needed his authorization to talk to the bank about anything related to the mortgage. It was a pain and reeks of patriarchy. When he passed, I had survivor's rights (my name was on the deed, as it is the law in my state) so that was a mostly painless transition. Banks just want to get their money. The fact that Delilah wasn't contacted is just a TV fantasy bullshit. Besides, she would have to be completely oblivious to all things life to ignore that something needs to be done to record his death, probate if there is one, etc.

Edited December 31, 2018 by alexvillage
Because "montage press" is not a thing.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, alexvillage said:

I think Katherine is a real estate lawyer?

Yep, she mentioned it during the Santa discussion with Theo. 

11 hours ago, alexvillage said:

On the first house I bought with my husband, I signed the mortgage papers but I wasn't in the montage press, meaning I needed his authorization to talk to the bank about anything related to the mortgage. It was a pain and reeks of patriarchy. When he passed, I had survivor's rights (my name was on the deed, as it is the law in my state) so that was a mostly painless transition. Banks just want to get their money. The fact that Delilah wasn't contacted is just a TV fantasy bullshit. Besides, she would have to be completely oblivious to all things life to ignore that something needs to be done to record his death, probate if there is one, etc.

I would have an easier time ignoring the glaring logic problems if the show stopped trying to address them at all. It was said multiple times that Jon had a long relationship with the bank but we are supposed to believe that Delilah was never contacted before the eviction. I might be able to go along with that if Delilah hadn’t been notified that the loan was denied. So the bank will contact Delilah about the loan but is talking to Ashley about everything else. This just makes everyone involved look like idiots. 

Edited December 31, 2018 by Guest

[TheLastKidPicked]

18 hours ago, Dani said:

I would have an easier time ignoring the glaring logic problems if the show stopped trying to address them at all. It was said multiple times that Jon had a long relationship with the bank but we are supposed to believe that Delilah was never contacted before the eviction. I might be able to go along with that if Delilah hadn’t been notified that the loan was denied. So the bank will contact Delilah about the loan but is talking to Ashley about everything else. This just makes everyone involved look like idiots. 

I know it's done for dramatic purposes in the show, but the truth is much more mundane and boring than you might think.   It is likely that Ashley was listed as the second contact, and even the emergency contact on most of Jon's finances.  Why?  Not to hide anything or conceal anything-- it's just easier because the administrative assistant would have access to files, passwords, and checking accounts.  The fact that there was an affair probably had nothing to do with it.

Now, here is what happens in real life, and could happen in the show:

Delilah wants Ashley out, so she takes Ashley off the accounts.  We're rid of her now, right?  Not so fast.

Ashley can still begin (or continue) taking money from Jon's accounts.  There will be places that Delilah doesn't even know Jon was doing business.  There will be places where even though Delilah took Ashley's name off the account, Ashley can still call up and they will talk to her and transfer money for her just out of habit.  They don't know to take the extra time to look up to see if Ashley is still listed as an account holder.

To put a finer point on it, this is exactly why when somebody is fired, layed off, or simply quits a job where finances are involved, they are sometimes forced to wait in the parking lot while a security guard puts their personal items in a box and carries it out to them.

[doodlebug]

3 hours ago, TheLastKidPicked said:

I know it's done for dramatic purposes in the show, but the truth is much more mundane and boring than you might think.   It is likely that Ashley was listed as the second contact, and even the emergency contact on most of Jon's finances.  Why?  Not to hide anything or conceal anything-- it's just easier because the administrative assistant would have access to files, passwords, and checking accounts.  The fact that there was an affair probably had nothing to do with it.

Now, here is what happens in real life, and could happen in the show:

Delilah wants Ashley out, so she takes Ashley off the accounts.  We're rid of her now, right?  Not so fast.

Ashley can still begin (or continue) taking money from Jon's accounts.  There will be places that Delilah doesn't even know Jon was doing business.  There will be places where even though Delilah took Ashley's name off the account, Ashley can still call up and they will talk to her and transfer money for her just out of habit.  They don't know to take the extra time to look up to see if Ashley is still listed as an account holder.

To put a finer point on it, this is exactly why when somebody is fired, layed off, or simply quits a job where finances are involved, they are sometimes forced to wait in the parking lot while a security guard puts their personal items in a box and carries it out to them.

This is certainly true of business accounts, but Ashley shouldn't have access or information about Jon and Delilah's mortgage or other personal finances.  I know a lot of people who own their own businesses and have personal assistants with the ability to access the business accounts, but none of them would let their assistant access personal accounts such as mortgages. Jon apparently planned his suicide very carefully; if Ashley did have access to those accounts, he had plenty of time to separate his personal from professional accounts.  Considering Jon was apparently working in some sort of investment type job, it would make no sense that he would mix business and personal accounts, particularly since he was planning to kill himself.  Just one more thing that makes no sense on the show.

[debraran]

10 hours ago, doodlebug said:

This is certainly true of business accounts, but Ashley shouldn't have access or information about Jon and Delilah's mortgage or other personal finances.  I know a lot of people who own their own businesses and have personal assistants with the ability to access the business accounts, but none of them would let their assistant access personal accounts such as mortgages. Jon apparently planned his suicide very carefully; if Ashley did have access to those accounts, he had plenty of time to separate his personal from professional accounts.  Considering Jon was apparently working in some sort of investment type job, it would make no sense that he would mix business and personal accounts, particularly since he was planning to kill himself.  Just one more thing that makes no sense on the show.

That's true. He also shouldn't have dumped so much on Ashley since he wanted her "not involved". He did have her delete files or maybe she did that on her own, but I'm sure the hard drive is intact. It doesn't make sense at all that he left the entire followup, the letter, the life insurance behind picture, video, etc to Ashley. Why not have it mailed  to his wife or leave her a personal letter or email, he trusted Ashley way too much. And then for the drama (and it does keep me watching although irritated) Ashley lies to everyone? Nice legacy to her boss, all the stuff coming down the pipe wouldn't come if she kept silent in her mind?

The more you think about it, the more the planned suicide seems "off". I realize for TV they thought jumping from a highrise was a good "pull in" for the first crowd of watchers, very dramatic and left you stunned. Then you start to think about how horrid that was in a "planned" suicide for his kids and loved ones and for pete's sake, his trusted Ashley was right there running to the railing! I thought at the time, he didn't wait until late at night, leaving for another business issue from home, because something was happening right then. He did it because people would be on their way to the building. But then days passed, weeks, Xmas, and nothing. Now we get a home repossession but nothing really dramatic. 

I know the video will explain his guilt, etc. and the rest of the letter, but it was a huge let down.

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, debraran said:

It doesn't make sense at all that he left the entire followup, the letter, the life insurance behind picture, video, etc to Ashley. Why not have it mailed  to his wife or leave her a personal letter or email, he trusted Ashley way too much.

If I recall correctly, the manila envelope with the letter (and other items, I think) was addressed to Delilah, and Ashely basically stole/hid them.

[debraran]

That's what I meant, not really sent to her by registered mail or left for her to find in drawer at home, but expecting Ashley to do all the dirty work. Kind of odd.

[doodlebug]

58 minutes ago, debraran said:

That's what I meant, not really sent to her by registered mail or left for her to find in drawer at home, but expecting Ashley to do all the dirty work. Kind of odd.

Very odd, he obviously trusted Ashley a lot more than he should have.  He could've easily left the package for her in his car, in a drawer, in a safe deposit box, or, better yet, give it to the lawyer he's hired to handle probate of his estate with instructions to contact Delilah and give her the package if he should die.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, debraran said:

That's what I meant, not really sent to her by registered mail or left for her to find in drawer at home, but expecting Ashley to do all the dirty work. Kind of odd.

That part has been bothering me for a while. If Ashley hadn’t hidden the envelope the police would have opened it while investigating his death which is probably the last thing he would have wanted.  If he wanted Ashley to take it why didn’t he write her name on it with instructions for her. It makes no sense given the amount of planning that he did. 

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, Dani said:

That part has been bothering me for a while. If Ashley hadn’t hidden the envelope the police would have opened it while investigating his death which is probably the last thing he would have wanted.  If he wanted Ashley to take it why didn’t he write her name on it with instructions for her. It makes no sense given the amount of planning that he did. 

Exactly, we've been told that Jon was a good businessman and a conscientious, detail-oriented guy.  Leaving a letter for his wife, possibly detailing various illegal schemes, at the site of his suicide was dumb.  Counting on Ashley to keep her head about her enough to hide the envelope from the police was foolish.  Even if she hadn't kept it from Delilah, the cops would've confiscated it as evidence while investigating the death for sure.  And, if it contained incriminating statements, that would've been investigated, too, and probably released publicly.  Delilah wasn't there when he jumped; just because the letter had her name on it doesn't mean she would've been able to keep it from the police who Jon had to realize were going to get there first.

Edited January 1, 2019 by doodlebug

[possibilities]

Jon may or may not have been as lucid as we've been led to think. Anyone killing themselves is likely to be in at least somewhat of an extreme mental state. Who knows how clearly he was actually thinking? In a way, it might be interesting if it turns out that he was actually  rather out of his mind, and not at all executing a rational plan.

But yeah, it's probably just bad writing.

[debraran]

7 hours ago, possibilities said:

Jon may or may not have been as lucid as we've been led to think. Anyone killing themselves is likely to be in at least somewhat of an extreme mental state. Who knows how clearly he was actually thinking? In a way, it might be interesting if it turns out that he was actually  rather out of his mind, and not at all executing a rational plan.

But yeah, it's probably just bad writing.

Nash, who talks about the show a lot, no real secrets said, they'd be "other reasons" for Jon. Whether it's illness or other things, he was rational enough to be a friend and take care of Gary and not have anyone suspect but I'm sure no matter what it was, the writing was just bad too. He did plan for 2 years to get out of suicide clause and that takes on an ominous feeling, for 2 years you were a father, husband and friend, supportive, etc and then do this? It hurts my head to contemplate. 

I wonder how he would have felt if he knew Rome was planning on killing himself?

[GordonGartrelle]

On 12/13/2018 at 2:20 PM, Gothish520 said:

Yup, me too. I never trust anything shown in previews.

Me 3.

I think this was a lame shock attempt.  He didn't initiate the kiss, he kissed her back, as to not insult her.

And why the hell would she go to a hotel with her boss, who is married with three children?

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, GordonGartrelle said:

Me 3.

I think this was a lame shock attempt.  He didn't initiate the kiss, he kissed her back, as to not insult her.

And why the hell would she go to a hotel with her boss, who is married with three children?

Ending it with that cliffhanger just confirmed for me that there was no affair. Him just standing there followed by the door closing made it so obvious to me that it is a fake out. 

It looked to me like an apartment building rather than a hotel. Since Jon was in real estate going to a strange property was probably not really unusual for Ashley. 

[HawaiiTVGuy]

On 12/12/2018 at 6:38 PM, HazelEyes4325 said:

I won't get to watch this until tomorrow (I'm on the west coast and it is past my bedtime), but I'm pretty disappointed if they go the affair route for Ashley and John.  Not only is it the most cliche thing ever, but this show already has one affair and now I guess they are going to use this affair to excuse that affair.  Blech.  Sorry, but Jon had an affair and it was wrong.  Delilah had an affair and it was wrong.  The existence of those two things are separate and neither diminishes the other.

I agree...I am still holding out hope that the whole Ashley/John thing was a misdirection.  Ashley seemed genuinely confused as to why they were at the apartment, and John didn't look like a guy who was bringing her there to get it on.  IMO, I feel like they should go the route that Ashley read the situation wrong and jumped John thinking John wanted to get it on with her, but I think John is using it as the source of some backroom business dealings and the next season we will see how John had to set her straight.

 

I sincerely hope so, because making it just an affair, then all of John's warnings to Gary (and the other guys, but mainly Gary since he is the man-whore of the group) to stay away from Ashley seems so obvious and how ridiculous that the friends didn't see it.  But if they throw in the twist that John is telling them to stay away because Ashley has some personal issues (sleeping with Gary and then jumping on John when it was unrequited) then it adds layer to the characters involved.  Just my thoughts.

[jhlipton]

On 1/1/2019 at 7:28 AM, doodlebug said:

the lawyer he's hired to handle probate of his estate

If there is such a person, wouldn't they know the state of Jo[h]n's finances, and let Delilah know at the time the estate was probated?  Has there been a reading of the will (if one was left) orthe equivalent if he died intestate?