S10.E09: The Tree of Strife

[readster]

8 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Well that is a problem with the show that I have had, they can’t let Haley move out because it would take her away from the family. There were many moments in past seasons where She was starting to grow and get a career and possibly move it, but the show can’t let that happen because it would be hard to include her in the plots. She has to live at home. Same with Alex. 

I don’t know. My whole thing isn’t just the pregnancy, it’s that the show couldn’t ever let her grow up but that’s just how I feel. I know I’m one of few who don’t have Dylan and Haley love and who don’t like this story at all.

That's what a lot of us are getting at. We get expecting a baby when you are: living at home, not married to the father, very unplanned ect. My wife and I were happy and yet scared. I mean, now we would be in charge of a baby, but we were looking forward to it. The problem is, they haven't had Haley be: On her own, completely separate from Dylan (he has always been around), working for flakes/morons, be able to part from her phone for more than 48 hours, ect. Now, we get this and the freaking out many get, it's the fact her character has regressed. Same with once again Mitch talking about his job, he finally got himself together and then the DA wanted him and Cam had pretty much wanted nothing to do with his father after his sister revealed his cheating and other things over the years. Now, he wants to take over the farm again, when he has found a great successful career at his school and has state championships under his belt. However, in all those cases, the school treats him like shit, Mitch can't just say: "You know what, I'm doing what I want and I'm happy with it, I'm not throwing that out the door." Or have Haley go: "You know what? Why do I want this career, I haven't gotten anywhere since I got kicked out of school for falling on a cop 5 years ago." 

[Blakeston]

I agree with pretty much everything everyone has said!

1. I'm disgusted that the show keeps sending the message with Gloria's plotlines that it's okay to be abusive to your partner if you're a hot woman. Jay has plenty of his own flaws, but he doesn't cross the line into abuse. Destroying your spouse's cell phone because you're angry that they were right about something? He should have demanded a divorce right then and there. (And don't get me started on how often these characters destroy expensive things and think nothing of it.)

2. Haley's storyline with the doll is one of the most blatant thefts of a Frasier plotline this show has ever done - which is saying a lot.

3. It really blows my mind that Cameron used to be the most mature adult on the show! The writers' decision to turn him into the most insecure, self-absorbed, childish diva on the planet is probably the biggest mistake they ever made. And they've only made that problem worse over the last eight seasons or so.

I will say one thing in Cameron's defense - Mitchell never should have promised to move back to the farm one day. There's no way he ever actually planned to go through with it.

That said, I can't buy that Mitchell ever would say something like that. Just like I can't buy that Mitchell would ever have even gone on a second date with Cameron.

Edited December 10, 2018 by Blakeston

[DrSpaceman73]

50 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

I agree with pretty much everything everyone has said!

1. I'm disgusted that the show keeps sending the message with Gloria's plotlines that it's okay to be abusive to your partner if you're a hot woman. Jay has plenty of his own flaws, but he doesn't cross the line into abuse. Destroying your spouse's cell phone because you're angry that they were right about something? He should have demanded a divorce right then and there. (And don't get me started on how often these characters destroy expensive things and think nothing of it.)

2. Haley's storyline with the doll is one of the most blatant thefts of a Frasier plotline this show has ever done - which is saying a lot.

3. It really blows my mind that Cameron used to be the some mature adult on the show. The writers' decision to turn him into the most insecure, self-absorbed, childish diva on the planet is probably the biggest mistake they ever made. And they've only made that problem worse over the last eight seasons or so.

I will say one thing in Cameron's defense - Mitchell never should have promised to move back to the farm one day. There's no way he ever actually planned to go through with it.

That said, I can't buy that Mitchell ever would say something like that. Just like I can't buy that Mitchell would ever have even gone on a second date with Cameron.

Given how Cam has acted on the show over the years, if Mitch ever did say he would move to the farm, I seriously doubt it was a straightforward, honest conversation like two mature adults in a loving relationship generally have.  I imagine Cam coming up with some elaborate scheme and then guilting Mitch into saying it somehow. 

[nilyank]

4 hours ago, readster said:

Same with once again Mitch talking about his job, he finally got himself together and then the DA wanted him and Cam had pretty much wanted nothing to do with his father after his sister revealed his cheating and other things over the years.

Did I miss something but when did Pam reveal that their father was cheating?

[WhosThatGirl]

57 minutes ago, nilyank said:

Did I miss something but when did Pam reveal that their father was cheating?

In an episode last season, it happened when they were kids, their father moved in with a girlfriend for a couple of months. Cam always thought he was in the war but Pam was like “what war?” Because there was no war going on during that term period. 

[Aryanna]

On 12/8/2018 at 11:47 PM, WhosThatGirl said:

Well that is a problem with the show that I have had, they can’t let Haley move out because it would take her away from the family. There were many moments in past seasons where She was starting to grow and get a career and possibly move it, but the show can’t let that happen because it would be hard to include her in the plots. She has to live at home. Same with Alex. 

I don’t know. My whole thing isn’t just the pregnancy, it’s that the show couldn’t ever let her grow up but that’s just how I feel. I know I’m one of few who don’t have Dylan and Haley love and who don’t like this story at all.

Someone on another forum (it may have been imdb before it died) said they should've had Haley and Alex have an apt together. I think that would've been a fabulous idea. They could have some of their own plotlines together as two young women becoming independant and dealing with adult life.

I think this whole Haley/baby storyline and Cam and Mitch moving to the farm is just the writers trying to set up endings for the series. It happens a lot in sitcoms where the status quo gets upset at the end and the characters start a new direction in their life that we don't get to follow them on.

Edited December 10, 2018 by Aryanna

[WhosThatGirl]

8 minutes ago, Aryanna said:

Someone on another forum (it may have been imdb before it died) said they should've had Haley and Alex have an apt together. I think that would've been a fabulous idea. They could have some of their own plotlines together as two young women becoming independant and dealing with adult life.

I think this whole Haley/baby storyline and Cam and Mitch moving to the farm is just the writers trying to set up endings for the series. It happens a lot in sitcoms where the status quo gets upset at the end and the characters start a new direction in their life that we don't get to follow them on.

Omg that story is genius, Haley and Alex living together is much better than the stories forcing them to live at home. 

[quangtran]

On 12/10/2018 at 1:58 AM, Blakeston said:

I agree with pretty much everything everyone has said!

1. I'm disgusted that the show keeps sending the message with Gloria's plotlines that it's okay to be abusive to your partner if you're a hot woman. Jay has plenty of his own flaws, but he doesn't cross the line into abuse. Destroying your spouse's cell phone because you're angry that they were right about something? He should have demanded a divorce right then and there. (And don't get me started on how often these characters destroy expensive things and think nothing of it.)

I never got the impression from the writers that Gloria is implicitly getting away with this the stuff she does because she is gorgeous (though I have no that comes with lots of privilege). I'm more bothered with the way the writers insist that Mitch, Claire and Jay are being bad spouses and parents for always trying to be right, which is stupid because for me the only people who says this that are those who also insist THEY are right but are often proven wrong, like with Gloria and the phone. Also, reason with this storyline is that these actions are supposed to be peppered with humor, but there was nothing funny about Gloria destroying the phone. Like what was said earlier, it just made her look like a huge bitch.

As for the status Jay and Gloria's marriage, I sometimes dislike their dynamic (like her insisting that its okay to shout at your partner), but that has only happened a handful of times within the last ten tears, as opposed to Cam and Mitch where Cam annoys me many times every season.

Quote

My dislike of Cam began way back when Mitch surprised him with the flashmob.

I didn't mind that story, but in hindsight that was the moment where the writers started mining Cam's hystertical oversensitivity for the sake of cheap laughs. Phil and Cam used to be neck and neck for polls for favourite character, and since around that time in season 2, Cam started dropping and Phil went up.

[Suzn]

6 hours ago, quangtran said:

Quote

My dislike of Cam began way back when Mitch surprised him with the flashmob.

I didn't mind that story, but in hindsight that was the moment where the writers started mining Cam's hystertical oversensitivity for the sake of cheap laughs. Phil and Cam used to be neck and neck for polls for favourite character, and since around that time in season 2, Cam started dropping and Phil went up.

 

I thought Cam was mean and stupid about the flashmob.  He was incapable of seeing that Mitch was trying to do something that would please him.  If someone can't at least appreciate good intentions, they are the ones being insensitive.  He takes offense at absolutely everything.

I am apparently the only person, ever, who can't stand Phil.  He is so full of himself and over-estimates himself constantly, while being oblivious to so many things.

[biakbiak]

27 minutes ago, Suzn said:

He was incapable of seeing that Mitch was trying to do something that would please him.  If someone can't at least appreciate good intentions, they are the ones being insensitive

But it didn’t please him, what would have pleaded him is if they had done it together and spent that time together. 

[CleoCaesar]

1 hour ago, biakbiak said:

But it didn’t please him, what would have pleaded him is if they had done it together and spent that time together. 

Even if that's the case, flipping out, yelling, and storming off when someone sincerely tries to do something nice for you is a completely toxic reaction.

Edited December 11, 2018 by CleoCaesar

[WhosThatGirl]

Cam and Mitch are just a bad match for each other. I think it’s rare that we see instances where they even like each other. Most of their episodes is one of them wanting to do something the other doesn’t want to do. Mostly Cam I agree.

But also anytime Cameron does something  that can be romantic which may be over the top, Mitch always acts annoyed or bothered. And i get that Cam is a lot but sometimes Mitch can just be rude.

At least as I said the other couples Get to enjoy each other at times. This pairing never seems to. 

And yeah I think Gloria has become annoying because like most of this shows plots and characters she has become stuck. They don’t know what to  or how to write for the character anymore. But again... this show has been on for 10 years. It’s common for this to happen but this is also a reason why they should throw in the towel. I don’t know if they are going to.

I do see at least someone leaving from the cast though. Maybe more but I think definitely one. Maybe Ed. Like someone else said, this is his 2nd hit tv show he can afford to stop.

I’m not sure about any of the young actors. The only one who I think would maybe consider it is Sarah. She’s been doing the show since she was 20-21 and now she’s 28. I’m sure the show locked her from doing other projects, she might wanna do something else. I’m sure the other young actors probably do as well.

That said there’s been no word yet but again 10 years is a long time.

Edited December 11, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[Mrs. Hanson]

On 12/11/2018 at 12:17 PM, Suzn said:

I am apparently the only person, ever, who can't stand Phil. Claire. She is so full of herself and over-estimates herself constantly, while being oblivious to so many things.

There - fixed it for you me.

I would have ran away from home if Claire was my mom.  High strung much?  The incessant need to to be right would drive to me to drink!!!

[Suzn]

3 minutes ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

There - fixed it for you me.

I would have ran away from home if Claire was my mom.  High strung much?  The incessant need to to be right would drive to me to drink!!!

However, she is usually right.

[possibilities]

I like people who put being right above their desire to cling to a fragile delusion. 

I think the problem with Cam and Mitch is that ABC was afraid to create too much tenderness between the gay partners. It's less controversial to show them in conflict and fulfilling "humorous" stereotypes of bickering and drama queendom, than to show intimacy, affection, harmony, and warmth. Cam is a stereotype and Mitch is a trope.

[readster]

32 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I like people who put being right above their desire to cling to a fragile delusion. 

I think the problem with Cam and Mitch is that ABC was afraid to create too much tenderness between the gay partners. It's less controversial to show them in conflict and fulfilling "humorous" stereotypes of bickering and drama queendom, than to show intimacy, affection, harmony, and warmth. Cam is a stereotype and Mitch is a trope.

Yep, just like Claire has to be the helicopter/strict parent and Phil is the nice at times, oblivious to things parent.  Why be a balance and why does Claire have to be right about things unless its with other adults. Just like how many times can Manny do stuff everyone hates and he keeps acting like they should care and then pulls a Cam and storms off upset.

[Blakeston]

51 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I think the problem with Cam and Mitch is that ABC was afraid to create too much tenderness between the gay partners. It's less controversial to show them in conflict and fulfilling "humorous" stereotypes of bickering and drama queendom, than to show intimacy, affection, harmony, and warmth. Cam is a stereotype and Mitch is a trope.

I also think the writers just don't have a clue how to write for anyone who doesn't fit into the mold of a "traditional" family. The only well-written characters, at this point, are either members of the most conventional family (the Dunphies), or they're Jay (a straight white guy). They've failed miserably at writing for the Latino characters, the gay characters, and the one Asian character.

Which is ironic, considering how much they've pushed the idea that this is a show about diversity.

[SnarkySheep]

On 12/6/2018 at 12:09 AM, Aryanna said:

I wanted to feel for Haley because she's scared about having a baby and scared that she won't be a good mother. They were making as if it were a baby having a baby but it wasn't sweet or cute because you realize how old Haley is. By my count she's about 24 or 25 years old. It's not like she's a teenager. And let me reiterate, I really really really don't like her with Dylan. I have never liked Dylan.

Not to mention, the whole "oops" pregnancy storyline on TV is such an old and tired one. It's like every show gets to a point where they don't know how to mix things up, so they toss in an unplanned baby.

What do you want to bet that instead of being motivated to get their own apartment, Haley will simply keep living at the Dunphy home with Dylan and little Dylley?

[anna0852]

2 hours ago, SnarkySheep said:

Not to mention, the whole "oops" pregnancy storyline on TV is such an old and tired one. It's like every show gets to a point where they don't know how to mix things up, so they toss in an unplanned baby.

What do you want to bet that instead of being motivated to get their own apartment, Haley will simply keep living at the Dunphy home with Dylan and little Dylley?

If they go that route, it will last right up until Grandma Claire sticks her nose into the baby's upbringing! 

[biakbiak]

2 hours ago, SnarkySheep said:

What do you want to bet that instead of being motivated to get their own apartment, Haley will simply keep living at the Dunphy home with Dylan and little Dylley?

Doesn’t Dylan have an apartment or was what we saw a dorm?

[WhosThatGirl]

1 hour ago, biakbiak said:

Doesn’t Dylan have an apartment or was what we saw a dorm?

I’m not sure. He had roommates though and weren’t they also all nurses?

[possibilities]

Haley and Dylan could rent the apartment above Cam and Mitch.

[AnnaRose]

3 hours ago, possibilities said:

Haley and Dylan could rent the apartment above Cam and Mitch.

That's an excellent idea, Possibilities!

[readster]

14 hours ago, possibilities said:

Haley and Dylan could rent the apartment above Cam and Mitch.

That would actually make the most sense. Of course, we want more of Cam and Mitch forgetting their grand niece/nephew at places will get old very fast. I'm also surprised the top apartment has not been mentioned since Pam went to jail.