S03.E06: Chapter Forty-One: Manhunter

[The Crazed Spruce]

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After confronting the parents, Betty follows some strong leads in hopes of finding out the Gargoyle King's true identity; Veronica's attempt to prove Archie's innocence lands her in hot water; Archie turns to Kevin for help making things right.

[WhosThatGirl]

So before this episode airs, a lot of us already know how it’s going to end, right? I mean someone leaked the promo for 3x07 last week and I won’t spoil it but it definitely spoiled how some plots end in this episode.

 

Anyways.

 

I wish I cared about G and G but the more I hear about it, the less I do? I’m still convinced one of the Lodge parents is behind it.

 

Hey Jughead maybe did a smart thing by telling betty about the Gyglore King or kings. Whatever. I don’t care.

 

Oh Alice, stop pretending your a good mom. You really aren’t. 

 

Also I really wish Betty would stop trying to talk to her mom about this. It’s going to do her no favors and her mom will hardly tell her the truth and if any truth, it’s half truths.

 

Again who is writing Veronica’s lines? I agree with others whenever she talks, it really is like a different kind of show.

 

Are we supposed to like hero Archie taking the plea deal? It will always be stupid to me.

 

So Josie has a seizure.. Alan’s Evelyn is in this room too. So she’s behind it, right? 

 

Aw Jughead and Betty working together and being cute. 

 

I’m not really clear on why betty decided to confront the parents, alone. Seriously she should have taken backup. Doing it alone was stupid. And unsafe. 

 

Should we believe Penelope’s story? I.. don’t know. I mean m.. Penelope is still awful. All these parents are. Like I’m done with all of them and the show needs to stop with trying to make them a thing because they’re all awful and I hate them all.

 

Also FP is handcuffing Jughead for protection when really I doubt it and I can’t get behind him as a protecting father. Sorry but he still sucks. Along with his romantic counterpart but we will get to that later.

 

So.. why are all the teens trusting this doctor? Seriously he’s going to end up being super sketchy.

 

Also Veronica why did you bring the case files to your apartment? That was dumb. 

 

Aw Betty unhandcuffed Jughead with Bobby pins! And there were nicknames and a kiss and I love Bughead. Too bad that they are going to be in hell for future episodes probably. And yeah not their relationship but characters. 

 

I love Veroncias “you had one job!” To Kevin. True. Kevin is easily manipulated to do what others ask of him. For a time. I think that’s the only real characteristic of the character. 

 

Archie deciding to chase people down in the woods after getting his stabbed wound stitched. Yup. Good call.

 

Also Parent Lodges really need to start changing their password from Veronica’s birthday. Unless They were trying to fool Veronica.  But also why was she breaking into her mothers office? 

 

So everyone is a pawn in the game. And Archie has to die.. why? Why is he super special? 

 

Hiram telling Jughead he lost his mind. Well. That’s how I feel about the writers this season. Also now that Jughead said Hiram is the king, he probably isn’t. But who the hell knows anymore. Last season when they made Hal the black Hood and made it super obvious and Hiram’s little speech about all the other parents being killers, pretty sure Hiram is one as well, he may not directly kill people but pretty sure he’s had some orders killed in for people to be killed. Just saying.

 

Hey yay someone told Fred Archie’s out and running around the woods. Also she’s in jail do she needs a lawyer because she’s in jail. Also this makes me super sad for the inevitable breakup she and Archie are going to have because she’s going through intense work to get him cleared.

 

Betty is actually getting stuff down. Maybe.  Who knows.  This is probably all going to lead nowhere.

 

So Hiram’s Sheriff friend is shooting random people because of Archie?  I mean.. 

 

Also bye Joaquin. That kind of sucks but I guess there was no way for him to be awesome and a match for Kevin again after stabbing Archie. But hell.. they should start applying this situation to other characters that are still on this show that have  done awful terrible things. But we will get to that later.

i sort of get what archie is saying.

Betty and Penaoples scene was super odd, “please betty call me auntie”, the hell? 

 

Watching the scene with Alice and Betty and the king stuff was creepy, Also way to reference the scream scene with FP climbing though the window. Also are we supposed to suspect FP bow? That’s fine, I dislike him a lot too this season. Again. Done with all the parents. Also I’m thinking maybe Alice and FP planned this scenario to scare Betty or something. Either way this was no reason for Alice to send betty away to SOQM and it’s unforgivable. 

Aw Fred and Archie.and Archie’s note.

I love that Hermione thinks she knows things but honestly she knows nothing. She didn’t even know her daughter was in jail.

 

So can Alice Cooper be done as a character now? She’s sending Betty off to SOQM and we viewers know that place is beyond awful and therefore the show has to know she is done, right? I’m sorry but there is nothing damn redeemable about her at all anymore. And people can save me with the she is doing this to protect Betty.. like really? That doesn’t and shouldn’t give her a pass; we as viewers have been told and shown that this place is awful. And Alice isn’t a naive dumb person to think otherwise. Even if this show this season has been showing otherwise. Hey, maybe THATS what the farm does, they remove parts of your brain. It would explain so much. 

 

I also kind of hope this is the end of Falice as well. Why are people shipping this? All this episode to me did was prove that thy both are terrible characters who treat their kids terribly. Even FP, he’s not good at all. Especially this season when so far his top Priority has been his relationship with Alice and keeping his involvement in the g&G game secret. And yeah some may say to protect Jughead but.. it’s felt like more and more like he did it to protect himself and possibly also to keep whatever the hell he and Alice are doing and keep her happy. It’s crap. 

 

But as I was saying Alice Cooper is done, right? I sure as hell hope so. I just don’t understand because I think the show is going to try and still have us like her. Which I haven’t for a while. She has been awful since the very first episode.  And damn that scene where she sent betty away and ignored Jugheads call.. seriously, how are people stanning her? She’s unbelievable awful. 

 

I hope betty doesn’t forgive her. She’s terrible. 

 

Also again loving Veronica being like “Kevin, you had one job!” Also sad Varchie. I feel for these shippers I was there last season and continue to be there every episode with Bughead. But also god.. Veronica worked super hard to save Archie and disowned her family for.. a breakup? Like damn. That’s rough. 

Also Archie’s little speech about them being in love forever.. eh.. considering the promo for next week, really? I mean.. 

Also Jughead and Archie road trip. That’s cute. Also way to bury the lead on Joaquin being dead. What’s the body count this season?  

I really hate the SOQM story. I wonder if Jughead will ever find out betty is locked in there. 

[Advance35]

I LOVED the scene with the parents (at least some of them) not even Betty's overdone Nancy Drew act was enough to ruin it.  Nice staging, having Hiram and Hermione sitting well apart and across from all of the other parents.   And loved Hermione was quick to throw Penelope Blossom under the bus.  She is an opportunist at heart. LOL.  And Penelope Blossom is cut from the same cloth, quickly throwing the hot potato on the Doylee family. LOL.

I LOVE that Hiram replaced the Veronica portrait with one of himself. LOL.  Though as much as she'll deny it, I notice Veronica had her portrait hanging in her Speakeasy.  She is her father's daughter. lol.  I don't think I've ever noticed before, but Veronica has a mannequin she uses to see what her outfits look like when worn?!?!?!  I know the Lodges are bad to the bone but those kind of aesthetics and extra flourishes would be enough to keep me on Team Lodge no matter what they were scheming against the rest of Riverdale.

I did giggle when she told Fred to get to Shadow Lake and to deliver her message to Archie and added "would you mind giving Mrs. McCoy a ring and telling her to come to the Sheriff's station.  Fred gave a deep sigh that cracked me up.

My jaw dropped when we found out that Sierra McCoy posted Veronica's bail.  I thought Sierra loathed her.

Though I have a fondness for her, I hope Hiram and Hermione take off the gloves where she's concerned.  She is willing to send both Hiram AND Hermione to the slammer over her high school studhorse?!?!?!?!  This girl was never taught the sad truth, men come and go honey.  Though that end scene was the first time Archie convinced me he truly loved Veronica.  We'll see how things go from here.  He already seems friendly with the Farmgirl in the promo.

Also, can we please have more friendship scenes between Kevin and Veronica.  Kevin is one of the few people that's always been able to take Veronica in stride.

I'm no Tom Keller fan but Betty going on about being complicit in a cover up is rich.  I remember a nuisance that walked in on her mother scrubbing blood off the living room floor and proceeded to assist in the disposal of a car and other incriminating evidence.  Ugh.

[tennisgurl]

29 minutes ago, Advance35 said:

I LOVE that Hiram replaced the Veronica portrait with one of himself. LOL.  Though as much as she'll deny it, I notice Veronica had her portrait hanging in her Speakeasy.  She is her father's daughter. lol.

Oh I was dying at Hiram standing right next to the painting of Veronica she put up on her club! The levels of Extra with those two! Those two are way more alike than they would like to admit. Its all about the details when your running a teenage speakeasy/evil empire. 

Loved all of the adults together, alternating between trying to throw each other under the bus, and sticking together. All with Betty doing her best Nancy Drew, and bringing all the suspects together like its the ending to an Agatha Christie novel. I do roll my eyes at her constant judgement she throws at the parents. I mean, Betty has covered up murders, broken laws, almost cooked a guy alive, she isnt exactly miss sweet and innocent. Although, if she (or preferably one of the several former law enforcement officers or current lawyers) would say something a bit more forceful about Reggie's dad punching his son in the face, that would be nice...

Like seeing Kevin more involved in the plot, especially with he and Archie having some scenes, but it would be nice to see some more of the kids getting involved, especially as several of them have succumbed to the evils of tabletop games. I know that this is a ridiculous Riverdale thing, this plot really does seem ripped straight out of those late 70s Satanic Panic anti DnD made for TV movies. "Your kids have fallen prey to one of the most evil addictions known to sweet, wholesome kids today...fantasy games!!!" But, well, its Riverdale, so everything is constantly taken up to eleven. 

So now Alice hands Betty over to the Sisters of Eternal Creepiness, who are apparently doing some weird True Detective fan-art in their classes. Cool?

[WhosThatGirl]

Well according to Alices great parent instincts they’re going to help betty. And Alice is going off to the farm to confess more of her sins. Also love that both Alice and FP hugged each other and ignored Betty’s well being. Something tells me it was all a set up, that grave and sull thing.

Again all the parents suck. Except for Fred and Tom. And Tom gets a side eye occasionally for some of his actions.

Also I get this show is inconsistent but what is the deal with Hermione? Sometimes they want her to be a classic mob wife who knows nothing or pretends to, other tines  want it want it to be that she knows what’s going and in fact is the one who plans it.

Edited November 29, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[Dee]

Kevin conveniently gets an entire subplot.

Meanwhile Josie, Reggie & Toni get nothing.

Nice to see Riverdale remains racist trash.

[Snookums]

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So Josie has a seizure.. Alan’s Evelyn is in this room too. So she’s behind it, right? 

Totally, and I am pissed that the script ignored that: Betty should have figured that shit out in two seconds.

So far the writers seem to have learned their lesson about "not making up the Head Murderer's Identity on the fly;" they did a fairly good, Dorothy Sayer/Agatha Christie setup of multiple suspects and semi-plausible deniability: It was Oleander poisoning suicide murder and I don't remember Creepy Warden from school at all! Sure, guys, sure. Also, hi, Reggie's dad, whom we have never met before! You are a scumbag!

God, Alice is the WORST liar; how the hell was so much of this crap kept secret for so long? Every time Betty asks her anything she couldn't make it more obvious she's dodging and weaving if she had boxing gloves on and a ringside announcer yelling "AND she ducks! She weaves! She refuses eye contact while deflecting! Ladies and gentlemen, this woman couldn't step on the truth if she made shoes out of it!" I don't know why Betty even bothers.

And speaking of WORST, HP was acting extra sketchy with a side of untrustworthy this whole ep: That whole Gargoyle King invasion screamed horror film setup from the Jiffy Pop to the ridiculous grave marker, and it's clear Betty wasn't buying what HP's selling even if Alice is. But to make extra sure HP's on the suspect list let's have him handcuff his son to the fridge! Oh, brother. How Jug didn't call out his alcoholic father over that sanctimonious addict garbage was...something.

Veronica, you moved some mountains today, not saying you didn't but girl: THUMB DRIVE. Also, move out or get a lock for your bedroom door. 

Archie was no dumber than usual and actually got things moving, so yay. Also, the makeup department did a really good job making him look deeply unwell. The Sonic the Hedgehog hair, however, distracted from what was a really nice scene between him and Vee. When these actors are given emotional beats they really hit them. I don't know what Jug thinks he can realistically do for Archie that's worth abandoning his six thousand management positions (who will tell Fangs and Co. what to do?) but finally somebody realized that Archie should not be left alone.

God, how many teen couples are boning in that nasty-ass bunker? Is anybody washing the sheets? GROSS. 

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I did giggle when she told Fred to get to Shadow Lake and to deliver her message to Archie and added "would you mind giving Mrs. McCoy a ring and telling her to come to the Sheriff's station.  Fred gave a deep sigh that cracked me up.

 

I loved that: "You're not even my kid! And ever since you started DATING my kid things have gone to hell! Fine." *dials Attorney McCoy before heading off to save Archie*

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Betty and Penaoples scene was super odd, “please betty call me auntie”, the hell?

They are technically related-ish but not; some bizarro world callback to that whole Blossom Blood thing. Again, Penelope's never once asks about Polly or the twins.

[WhosThatGirl]

The worst thing about Alice shipping Betty off to SOQM is how more than likely the show will ignore it and try to make us like Alice again or have Betty forgive her. When in reality, Betty shouldn’t. Cheryl sure as hell didn’t forgive Penelope and we as viewers aren’t expected to think she should or will. But because it’s Alice the show will force the hand of that and that’s dumb. I’m honestly mad the writers actually did this because in reality, Alice won’t be able to come back from it, at least for me. But like I said the show is going to try. And it won’t work for me.

And yeah FP sucks a lot. He is the same problem with Alice. At some point the writers are going to have to realize that they can’t keep writing crap like this if they want us to like these characters. Sometimes you gotta stop. It’s also terrible because the idea of trying to get viewers to like these characters again is to just not mention what they did and.. that’s not great writing. It’s just bad. It also doesn’t work when they use this same tactic for other characters but yet tell us not to ignore it but throb for characters like FP and Alice were just supposed to take it all with a grain of salt and then forget it.

Edited November 29, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[AnimeMania]

How could Jughead leave and not tell anybody that he was going with Archie. I am sure that Betty will find a key piece of the puzzle staying with "The Sistas".

[WhosThatGirl]

9 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

How could Jughead leave and not tell anybody that he was going with Archie. I am sure that Betty will find a key piece of the puzzle staying with "The Sistas".

Well he was calling Betty when she got taken by the sisters, Alice hit ignore on her cell phone. I assume he was probably telling betty. Why would he tell fp anything at this point?

I also would assume Fangs and sweet pea know already, we just didn’t see that scene but that’s probably what he was calling to tell betty about. I’m wondering if he will ever find out about Betty being at the sisters. I sure hope so and I hope he gives Alice and FP a piece of his mind. As I said earlier that whole skull on Betty’s bed seemed stage as hell. And we can’t ignore that FP climbing though the window was pretty much the same scene as when SUs character did it in Scream and his character turned out to be one of the killers. So the show is totally telling us something, I think.

Edited November 29, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[bara007]

Wow, tha was quite a homage to classical Scream, with FP climbing up the window - and that look he give! I was getting serious vibes. :))

That must mean something....

[Lady Calypso]

Ok, so how weird was FP's reaction when he showed up at the Cooper house to find Alice and Betty hiding in her room and Alice telling him that the Gargoyle King was downstairs? It was like they made him play suspicious on purpose. Or it was just a Scream homage.

Oh well...bye, Joaquin. You didn't really get to do much this episode besides be captured, talk to Jughead, and then die.

Alice is....just wow. I really am not liking her choice with Betty, but this show always has these characters overreact to things, so it is no surprise. Plus, the show is writing for plot, rather than for character. They clearly just wanted someone at SOQM and Betty won that dice roll. 

Also, see Archie getting a one scene infection only to get him out of the bunker and to talk to suspicious coroner son. 

I'm still convinced they have no plan with the whole cult seizure stuff. Also, is it just the girls who are having seizures?

Well, Kevin got something to do. I did like his scenes with Archie. I'm a bit peeved that Fred was so close in getting to see his son after at least a month of not seeing him, but then Archie took off. He couldn't have waited an extra half hour to say goodbye to his dad in person? I get wanting to protect him, but still. Poor Fred, still the best parent of the bunch. I do worry that the show will give us the middle finger at some point and ruin him too.

[WhosThatGirl]

I mean I think they are writing for plot too, especially because I’m fully expecting the show to have us forget how terrible both Alice and DP have been this season. Like four episodes from now we are probably just going to have forget this all happened and the show will want us to like Alice again. Like how they tried and failed at least for me in season two with the character. I’ve never liked her and have been confused why people do.

Also I’m not sure the show has a plan for the G and G stuff king stuff along with the cult stuff. I personally think it’s all going to be spliced together badly and probably end up just as bad as the black Hood last season. Especially given that in this one episode alone we were given a ton of suspects/more than likely red herrings. I really think FP has something to do with it now but knowing this show.. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re just throwing things out to see what sticks.. again.

Plus we Have to think of who the powers that be of this show like a lot and want to continue to use, would SU be the big evil this season and the show would risk having to keep him away for an extended period because of this story? I mean they had to find a way to get him out of jail

in season 2 because fans liked FP a lot(not me, again.. not getting why certain characters get such high love when their actions are terrible), but I’m curious about the fact tht the main plots this season are a hot mess with no end in sight, just like last year. They don’t have a plan for anything, it seems like. 

Edited November 29, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[SourK]

Okay, so now G&G is a metaphor for being on drugs? And the proper way to help someone withdraw from drugs is to chain them to the fridge and peace out?

The funniest part of this to me was that Hermione saved every file she ever opened to her desktop, and the whole thing was such a mess that apparently Hiram could hide a bunch of videos there and trust that she would never know the difference. It's like when my parents hid my Christmas presents in my room because they knew I'd never clean it up.

14 hours ago, Snookums said:

Veronica, you moved some mountains today, not saying you didn't but girl: THUMB DRIVE. Also, move out or get a lock for your bedroom door. 

I know I log in every week to say that Riverdale can't make sense of some trivial real world thing -- like how tattoos are done, etc -- but... they don't understand email attachments, or file transfers either. At this point, I'm starting to wonder if they purposely approach every situation saying, "How can we make this abnormal?" or if the series is directed by an AI that's never lived in the world and is just trying to describe it based on data.

12 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

 And we can’t ignore that FP climbing though the window was pretty much the same scene as when SUs character did it in Scream and his character turned out to be one of the killers. So the show is totally telling us something, I think.

Yeah, that's what I got out of it, too. That was actually a pretty good homage to Scream all around, and it was either a brilliant way to tell us not to trust FP or else it means nothing at all.

[WhosThatGirl]

2 minutes ago, SourK said:

Okay, so now G&G is a metaphor for being on drugs? And the proper way to help someone withdraw from drugs is to chain them to the fridge and peace out?

The funniest part of this to me was that Hermione saved every file she ever opened to her desktop, and the whole thing was such a mess that apparently Hiram could hide a bunch of videos there and trust that she would never know the difference. It's like when my parents hid my Christmas presents in my room because they knew I'd never clean it up.

I know I log in every week to say that Riverdale can't make sense of some trivial real world thing -- like how tattoos are done, etc -- but... they don't understand email attachments, or file transfers either. At this point, I'm starting to wonder if they purposely approach every situation saying, "How can we make this abnormal?" or if the series is directed by an AI that's never lived in the world and is just trying to describe it based on data.

Yeah, that's what I got out of it, too. That was actually a pretty good homage to Scream all around, and it was either a brilliant way to tell us not to trust FP or else it means nothing at all.

Yeah. I mean it will probably be the latter and the writers thinking they are oh so clever when in reality I just find it annoying actually. Especially because it’s not out of anything to accuse FP as I’ve been saying he’s been terrible for this entire season pretty much, and the show tries to make him likes he’s not. He’s not a good parent at all. But whatever. This show loves to throw in a nice scene and try to erase previous actions.

[Al D]

Am I the only one who really enjoyed this episode? I've seriously watched it three times already tonight.

I personally think the writers know exactly what they're doing this time round, I think they learnt from their mistakes with last season and 100% have a plan for the ending (or at least I really hope so).

I absolutely love how every little thing is linked to the G&G game, it rounds everything off and personally I love a focused but wacky story line a hell of a lot more than loads of random ones that have no link. Everything about the game is intertwined into Riverdale, like the game IS Riverdale. Someone specifically created this game about Riverdale and everything that happens in it, now I dunno about everyone else but to me that's extremely interesting and well thought out.

I really don't think the Gargoyle King will be any of the parents the show just likes to give feelers to try and get you to question everyone and everything. Also I don't think the writers are trying to force the viewers to like anyone - I love all the scenes with the parents because they're all so terrible. They're meant to be horrible and bad at parenting that makes them them. Not every character in a TV show has to be likable, some are made to be unlikable and that's the whole point.

And I can't BELIEVE that no one has mentioned the homage to Stand by Me right at the end with Archie and Jughead on those train track!!! That was like the best bit! - it also confirms for me that the homage to Scream with FP is a red-herring, I think the writers are totally having a throwback moment.

[PeekaBoo]

Whoa!!! Now WTF is Falice up to? They can try to pull any tricks they want to pull but ain't NO ONE believing it was a "deliberate" appearance of the GK! Pfff!!! Come on! You could see Alice looking rather calculated throughout the episode, no wonder she was doing that! Now what are they hiding? This has Alice written all over and we know FP is capable of doing people's dirty work time and time again. Not excusing him for whatever he's been pulled into and most likely part of  (that creepy ass looked rather concern for Betty, not the opposite)...
I also LOVE LOVE LOVE this season! 

While I might not go crazy for the show as I did last year, I still love this show and it's turning out to be so damn GOOD! :D :D :D 
 

[WhosThatGirl]

Eh. I’m pretty over it and honestly I’m only here for Bughead and people can call me out. I really wish the parents weren’t so much a part of the story because I hate them all. Except Fred. Seriously. Falice was totally in on that moment and they are both horrible to their kids. Alice as I’ve said has never been a decent mother to Betty and FP has been terrible to Jughead more often than not. And he seems way more into his relationship with Alice this season which is hilarious that now they’ve become long lost lovers when from the clips I saw of the flashback eoisode(I haven’t watched that episode and don’t plan to) they hooked up a few times and Alice got pregnant but it was nowhere near actual relationship wise. And also for all the talk of how Falice wouldn’t deter Bughead, well.. they sure as hell aren’t helping them. Just saying.

 I bet fp going to the farm with Alice and Polly and they can all be a happy cult like family without those two teenagers they hardly take care of.

Also kind of funny people are still stanning Alice and saying things on Instagram about how Alice is just trying to protect Betty and do te beds she can and Alice doesn’t know what SOQM is. But.. I think she does. I think she’s more than aware of it. Also as viewers we’ve been presented that SOQM is awful so... when anyone is sent there, we know that person that sent them there is evil. Is been shown to be a bad place.

Granted I fullly expect that by April, Alice will be forgiven by Betty. Just like how she made Betty feel unsafe in her home by having chic there and then sang that song for Carrie and Betty was all “it’s all okay”. Ew.

In other news I feel for the Varchie shippers. Hell, I was there last season. You would get a ton of great moments in one episode for your ship and the  few scenes later they’re breaking up. Also kind of odd for Archie’s big love speech when the promo for both Archie and Veronica seems to be implying other things especially for Archie. 

Edited November 29, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[Al D]

Favourite line of the episode "I'm not a sixteen-year-old nerd" - Hiram Lodge

[WhosThatGirl]

6 minutes ago, Al D said:

Favourite line of the episode "I'm not a sixteen-year-old nerd" - Hiram Lodge

But he was one. He was even dressing up!

[Al D]

22 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

But he was one. He was even dressing up!

Exactly! That's what made me laugh.

[WhosThatGirl]

Just now, Al D said:

Exactly! That's what made me laugh.

I find that whole thing funny. That all these adults think they are so cool and in terms of Alice who was a gang member at the time decided to play a game.

And sadly.. all of the adults act like teenagers still. That’s another big problem for me, I don’t really enjoy watching adults act like teenagers and we seem to be focusing quite a lot on the adults. And I don’t enjoy. I know I’m alone.

[Quark]

I do so love this crazy show.

[lorbeer]

For about one minute I thought they got rid off Archie for good. I was debating with myself like "yeaah they could get rid of one of the main characters they did it in downton and others..) and then they showed that he was with Jughead and I was like "shit.. there's no way they got rid of jughead and archie at the same time...". I was happy for a minute. :(

[WhosThatGirl]

17 minutes ago, lorbeer said:

For about one minute I thought they got rid off Archie for good. I was debating with myself like "yeaah they could get rid of one of the main characters they did it in downton and others..) and then they showed that he was with Jughead and I was like "shit.. there's no way they got rid of jughead and archie at the same time...". I was happy for a minute. :(

I don’t think they will ever get rid of any of the core four, unless the actors themselves wanted to leave. Or there was stuff behind the scenes. And I think we would all hear about that before it happened on an episode. And I think we may have some time before any of these actors are thinking about leaving, it’s season three. 

Im curious about how long they’re going to do this on the lamb thing with Archie and Jughead. It can’t be that long. This show tends to suffer when characters are off in their own stories, that was a big problem last season. So I hope it isn’t long.

[HeatLifer]

I don’t know when it happened, but KJ has become my favorite younger actor and I’m shook. He’s grown so much since the series started. I also like how Archie is a bit more rooted in reality than the others (who have a knack to be more OTT and speak as if they’re on an episodic version of Mean Girls). The conversation over the phone with Veronica was so well-done, too. You *believed* Archie when, tbh, Archie can be really inconsistent and contradictory in his feelings about girls. His actions sometimes don’t match his words. A lot of times it’s almost like he says what he thinks they want to hear so he doesn’t hurt them. I think that’s intentional from a writing perspective. KJ plays it in a way that doesn’t make Archie look too much like a douchebag, though, because he still has such innocence. 

4 hours ago, SourK said:

Yeah, that's what I got out of it, too. That was actually a pretty good homage to Scream all around, and it was either a brilliant way to tell us not to trust FP or else it means nothing at all.

That was such a cool throwback.

3 hours ago, Al D said:

Also I don't think the writers are trying to force the viewers to like anyone - I love all the scenes with the parents because they're all so terrible. They're meant to be horrible and bad at parenting that makes them them. Not every character in a TV show has to be likable, some are made to be unlikable and that's the whole point.

Agree. And the acting is always on-point, so it’s fun to watch the deviousness. 

Edited November 30, 2018 by HeatLifer

[WhosThatGirl]

Eh, I think the show is going to bait and switch with alice. They want us to enjoy her but I can’t anymore. That’s just how I feel. And thts not what I meant when I said the writers force people to like characters , I just mean they still want Alice to be a main character and Betty is going to forgive her. Even though betty really shouldn’t. Not after his and not after previous actions.

 

Also sadly while Archie’s speech felt real, the promo for next week makes me think he’s back to season one Archie. And that’s not good.

Kjs gotten better. But Lili is still my favorite. And I have a soft spot for Cole but not lately because his acting is so over the top. Camilla can be really good sometimes, her phone call with Archie was great. I don’t see the great chemistry with Reggie so I’m one of the very few who don’t want veggie to happen now that Varchie is done, so I think Camilla’s acting is always good when she’s acting off other people, like she’s good without kJ, when they get to act and they aren’t just making out all the time.

Edited November 30, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[HeatLifer]

7 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Also sadly while Archie’s speech felt real, the promo for next week makes me think he’s back to season one Archie. And that’s not good

That’s kind of what I was getting at. While I believe that Archie has true feelings for Veronica, and what he said to her was rooted in the truth of that highly emotional  moment in time, there was also a part of Archie that was saying that to let Veronica down as easy as he could. It was more for her benefit than maybe his own. Archie can move on without her and be perfectly fine. 

[WhosThatGirl]

Just now, HeatLifer said:

That’s kind of what I was getting at. While I believe that Archie has true feelings for Veronica, and what he said to her was rooted in the truth of that highly emotional  moment in time, there was also a part of Archie that was saying that to let Veronica down as easy as he could. It was more for her benefit than maybe his own. Archie can move on without her and be perfectly fine. 

Yeah. I was wondering about the statement. That was the most endgame like statement Archie has ever said. Sure he has said he loves Veronica but that “I knew you were hit for me” was very endgame like. Bughead is always saying things like this and we’ve heard Veronica say she and Archie are end game before. So I agree with you. I’m not sure if Archie really meant it.

That said.. should we also take this as a meta commentary? As I stated Veronica has said it many times about her and Archie and Bughead is always talking like this, not in end game words but in other “we are forever”, should we think that these characters are nails in the coffin? I’m just wondering.

[HeatLifer]

16 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yeah. I was wondering about the statement. That was the most endgame like statement Archie has ever said. Sure he has said he loves Veronica but that “I knew you were hit for me” was very endgame like. Bughead is always saying things like this and we’ve heard Veronica say she and Archie are end game before. So I agree with you. I’m not sure if Archie really meant it.

That said.. should we also take this as a meta commentary? As I stated Veronica has said it many times about her and Archie and Bughead is always talking like this, not in end game words but in other “we are forever”, should we think that these characters are nails in the coffin? I’m just wondering.

Yeah, it’s not like I think Archie is lying, but if you remember back when they first met, while Archie was taken by Veronica’s beauty, I wouldn’t say he was ever thinking about a “future” with her or that she was “it” for him. I’m sure the audience can make up their own minds, but for me, this bit of rewriting history is very much in-tune with the wishy-washy nature of Archie’s character. He doesn’t actually know what he wants or who he wants to be with. The writers very subtly have played this through every season. 

I think the “endgame” and “forever” dialogue is more for their fans to celebrate as opposed to it meaning anything concrete. For example, if the show continues for say, three more seasons, I doubt the writers want to be held to those “endgames.” Endgame is so final. It’s meant for literally the end of a series/finale episode.

[WhosThatGirl]

1 hour ago, HeatLifer said:

Yeah, it’s not like I think Archie is lying, but if you remember back when they first met, while Archie was taken by Veronica’s beauty, I wouldn’t say he was ever thinking about a “future” with her or that she was “it” for him. I’m sure the audience can make up their own minds, but for me, this bit of rewriting history is very much in-tune with the wishy-washy nature of Archie’s character. He doesn’t actually know what he wants or who he wants to be with. The writers very subtly have played this through every season. 

I think the “endgame” and “forever” dialogue is more for their fans to celebrate as opposed to it meaning anything concrete. For example, if the show continues for say, three more seasons, I doubt the writers want to be held to those “endgames.” Endgame is so final. It’s meant for literally the end of a series/finale episode.

I agree with you about Archie. But I think the show and the powers behind  want Bughead to be an end game couple. I’m iffy about how they feel about Varchie. But like someone else said last season they have trademarked Bughead. At least I think they did. I swear I read it in the forums here. They have a lot of stock in that pairing. At least for now. And I agree it can change but I also think a lot of how the ships end up will depend on the actors themselves.

Like if in a few seasons someone involved with one of the ships wants to leave, they will have to find a way to write that. I do think they really like Bughead though.

[WhosThatGirl]

Thanks @SonomaI knew I read it here. But that’s why I think out of the ships, they do seem invested in trying to make Bughead an end game ship. I mean they will probably break up again but I do feel like that’s a relationship they are hoping to end the show with.

Granted as I said though, unforeseen circumstances could happen though. With any of the ships. Especially in today’s tv  day, it’s hard to find a cast that has every actor that stated on it still on it when it ends.

And like I said I’m sure about Varchie. I actually liked them this season, mostly because it felt like an actual relationship. Although they still were giving Veronica terrible lines about Archie constantly but I enjoyed them, probably more than I ever have. And I know people want Veronica and Reggie but I really don’t. I feel like Reggie isn’t going to do that to Archie. And I have to say while the promo kind of implies that both Archie and Veronica may move on in the next episode, it seems more Archie definitely will than Veronica. It kind of looks like Veronica is flirty with someone but Archie already looks about to move on. So yeah his goodbye phone call was probably more for Veronica than himself. 

So, how many people have died already this season already? I was trying to remember but I couldn’t remember how many shadow lake guys that were killed. It already seems like quite a lot for Riverdale for only being on episode six. I mean yeah it’s not all the same reason for why people are ending up dead but still.

And I know I shouldn’t care about the plot but I do, I can’t help it and it’s bothersome to me. I wish I could turn that off but I can’t.

[SourK]

Oh, I forgot to ask this about Archie because he's so boring: what awful embarrassing name do you think he'll give himself and Jughead? They don't have enough people to be a circle.

Also, do you think Jughead's going with him because it will somehow complete his quest and let him ascend in the Gargoyle game?

[WhosThatGirl]

6 minutes ago, SourK said:

Oh, I forgot to ask this about Archie because he's so boring: what awful embarrassing name do you think he'll give himself and Jughead? They don't have enough people to be a circle.

Also, do you think Jughead's going with him because it will somehow complete his quest and let him ascend in the Gargoyle game?

Ha. And yeah I think Jughead is going to protect Archie. Archie’s the super special piece. At least that’s my thinking. But maybe I’m wrong. As much as I think it’s safer for Jughead to be away from his dad who is totally up to creepy things or at least is acting super creepy right now, Jughead can’t be on the run forever. And Archie is acting like he is.

Like we know Betty’s at SOQM and Jughead doesn’t so I don’t see him being all leaving Riverdale forever or even a long amount of time without even hearing from Betty. I mean he called her and Alice ignored it and even if he left a message he’d want to tell her personally. So I don’t know what Jugheads end point is. Even if it’s to do a quest thing. I wonder if anyone has even explained this game to Archie yet. I guess we will find out next week what Jugheads real reason for going with Archie is.

But also if Jughead is doing it as a quest, how did he manage to lose Fangs and Sweet Pea? They were doing things with him for the quest this episode too. And yeah Choni was last week but there were not on screen this week (minus Cheryl’s 3 second scene) so I guess they aren’t playing anymore? Or they’re on pause? Whatever.

Edited November 30, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[methodwriter85]

Really loved the callbacks to Scream with the Jiffy pop and FP coming through the window. I also liked Kevin getting a scene with Archie. I like seeing characters getting paired up in unusual ways.

I really wanted "Stand by Me" to play at the end.

[Snookums]

They actually did shout out to Stand By Me with the song "Paladin;" that's the theme song to the TV show the kids were singing in the movie.

[thuganomics85]

FP handcuffing Jughead to the refrigerator and declaring that G&G has made him an addict was the greatest!  I just love how this Dungeons & Dragons knock-off has become the root of all evil here, and it feels like someone in the writers' just has a massive grudge against D&D.  Maybe it for all tabletop games.  It's a gateway drug, man!  First, its table-top!  Then it's video games!  And then suddenly, you've got a silly VR helmet on, and it's gasp!  It's all Ready Player One up in the joint!  Think of the kids!!!

Betty having all of the adults gather at the speakeasy was great, once we look past that this is a world where a bunch of adults just let one of their sixteen year-olds just boss them around, and not roll their eyes and send her to her room.  Alas, they continue to set-up one of them being the Gargoyle King, and since it seems like Betty and Judghead are the most gung-ho about it either being Hiram or Penelope, I'm guessing it won't be either of them.  Not sure who it could be, though.  Although, FP showing up right after the Gargoyle King broke into the Cooper house is suspicious, I guess....

The Archie/Kevin team was fun, even though they ended up not really accomplishing anything.

When Betty began grilling Keller about the case screw-up, I was back in S1 mode, all "Well, that doesn't mean anything, Betty.  He very well could have just messed that up on his own accord."  I mean, I love the guy, but Keller never really excelled at the whole sheriff thing.

Hermione's cluttered desktop was hilarious.  I guess she isn't good with creating documents and files on her computer, huh?

So, Archie is finally exonerated, but he now believes everything he touches goes to shit, so he's just bailing from Riverdale for good.  Of course, I doubt he will stay away for too long, but I almost don't blame him at this rate.  The phone conversation with him and Veronica was good.  I've always like Camilia Mendes here, but I feel like KJ Apa has actually been improving by a good bit.

Oh, boy!  Alice's is not only heading to the farm, but she's just got Betty committed to that insane church from last season.  Fun times will not be had!

[Wilpen]

Question... when Alice was being evil, sending Betty away and Betty's phone was ringing,,, was that Jughead calling her? 

An upset Varchie shipper I know was ripping Jughead for leaving with Archie without contacting Betty. I thought that's what the phone call was about? Jughead was calling Betty to tell her?

[Dobian]

This show has somehow managed to jump the shark over the shark.  Jump the shark squared?  Pam had a dream, Rosanne wrote a story, alien UFOs on CHiPs. and an entire hospital drama concocted in the mind of an autistic kid cannot even touch Riverdale.  And yet I keep watching.  The train wreck that keeps on giving.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Dobian

[Wilpen]

Honestly, this show is the one I look the most forward to every week. It's so crazy sometimes, but I can't help it... I am never clock watching, I'm always entertained. I'll never stop watching. 

[WhosThatGirl]

48 minutes ago, Wilpen said:

Question... when Alice was being evil, sending Betty away and Betty's phone was ringing,,, was that Jughead calling her? 

An upset Varchie shipper I know was ripping Jughead for leaving with Archie without contacting Betty. I thought that's what the phone call was about? Jughead was calling Betty to tell her?

Yes Jughead was calling Betty and Alice ignored it. I would assume Jughead was probably calling Betty to tell her he was leaving with Archie . 

[Wilpen]

24 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yes Jughead was calling Betty and Alice ignored it. I would assume Jughead was probably calling Betty to tell her he was leaving with Archie . 

Thanks! I thought so. 

I wonder how long Bughead will be apart. I hope not very long. 

[WhosThatGirl]

31 minutes ago, Wilpen said:

Thanks! I thought so. 

I wonder how long Bughead will be apart. I hope not very long. 

I hope so to! But sadly I think they might? I feel like Betty being at SOQM might be our cliffhanger into the break for the holidays. Who knows when or if Jughead will ever find out. I mean I’m sure he will find out eventually but.. I don’t think so for a while. It seems like this is what they will end the cliffhanger on.

Edited November 30, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[HeatLifer]

14 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

And I agree it can change but I also think a lot of how the ships end up will depend on the actors themselves.

Like if in a few seasons someone involved with one of the ships wants to leave, they will have to find a way to write that. I do think they really like Bughead though.

I’m sure the writers, as do the fans, all have preferences. And a variety of factors (internal and external) will determine how things play out at the end of the series. I’m just saying that it’s never a good idea for any pairing to be tied down so early in a work of television fiction that it limits other creative and story ideas. For example, Archie should be able to seek out other relationships and learn through those experiences. Maybe it will take him back to Veronica eventually or maybe it won’t. But having Archie never stray from her is extremely restricting. 

[Snookums]

I don't see Archie and Veronica as broken up so much as "torn apart by circumstance...that was generated by both a crazed grown mad and Archie's overdeveloped sense of personal drama." They certainly didn't have a fight or anything like that. However, judging from next week's promos they DO want Archie and his abs being pressed on by other nubile young persons without immediate fan rage, or something along those lines.

[HeatLifer]

12 minutes ago, Snookums said:

I don't see Archie and Veronica as broken up so much as "torn apart by circumstance...that was generated by both a crazed grown mad and Archie's overdeveloped sense of personal drama." They certainly didn't have a fight or anything like that. However, judging from next week's promos they DO want Archie and his abs being pressed on by other nubile young persons without immediate fan rage, or something along those lines.

Oh, yeah. But a lot of relationships are torn apart due to circumstance. It’s not necessarily either person’s fault. It’s outside factors that they can’t get past. In this case, though, I think a part of it is the writers taking an easy route. No one looks “bad” for the most part and Archie (and I’m sure Veronica) can move on to whatever he’s doing next (whether that’s another person or just his own journey) without months of tears bemoaning the state of their relationship. Because that’s just boring.

[WhosThatGirl]

36 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

I’m sure the writers, as do the fans, all have preferences. And a variety of factors (internal and external) will determine how things play out at the end of the series. I’m just saying that it’s never a good idea for any pairing to be tied down so early in a work of television fiction that it limits other creative and story ideas. For example, Archie should be able to seek out other relationships and learn through those experiences. Maybe it will take him back to Veronica eventually or maybe it won’t. But having Archie never stray from her is extremely restricting. 

I think Archie and Veronica are going to be the characters who out of the core four get to explore different love options more so than Betty or Jughead. Unless of course the show itself is leading to a grand love of Betty and Archie. I don’t see it but some people really see them as the end all pairing. I didn’t read the comics but I’ve seen bits and pieces and I don’t understand why people want betty with Archie because of the comics. Archie was terrible to Betty in the comics. I wonder if the comics weren’t the canon this was based on would people still want betty and Archie?

[Wilpen]

1 hour ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I hope so to! But sadly I think they might? I feel like Betty being at SOQM might be our cliffhanger into the break for the holidays. Who knows when or if Jughead will ever find out. I mean I’m sure he will find out eventually but.. I don’t think so for a while. It seems like this is what they will end the cliffhanger on.

 

I could totally see it play out like this. I guess it could be why we received those cute kisses in this episode. They will be apart for a bit. The good news is they aren't broken up for some lame reason. I like how they've been written this season. Given how horrible their parents are, I wish they'd pull a Stand By Me together... hit the train tracks, go on a long term journey together and never look back, lol.

21 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I think Archie and Veronica are going to be the characters who out of the core four get to explore different love options more so than Betty or Jughead. Unless of course the show itself is leading to a grand love of Betty and Archie. I don’t see it but some people really see them as the end all pairing. I didn’t read the comics but I’ve seen bits and pieces and I don’t understand why people want betty with Archie because of the comics. Archie was terrible to Betty in the comics. I wonder if the comics weren’t the canon this was based on would people still want betty and Archie?

I don't get it either. I was a casual reader of the Comics.... Archie always, always, preferred Veronica over Betty. Betty was like a doormat. She was always Archie's second choice. That never changed. Also, Jughead had a soft spot for Betty in the Comics. Thus, I feel like the show is actually as close to Comic Canon as you're going to get. I think it's perfect. 

Edited November 30, 2018 by Wilpen

[HeatLifer]

34 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I think Archie and Veronica are going to be the characters who out of the core four get to explore different love options more so than Betty or Jughead. Unless of course the show itself is leading to a grand love of Betty and Archie. I don’t see it but some people really see them as the end all pairing. I didn’t read the comics but I’ve seen bits and pieces and I don’t understand why people want betty with Archie because of the comics. Archie was terrible to Betty in the comics. I wonder if the comics weren’t the canon this was based on would people still want betty and Archie?

The only trait I really see from the comics in terms of Archie himself is his indecisiveness. Riverdale has definitely taken a spin on various relationships. Most people I see appreciate the connection between Betty and Archie that Riverdale created (and should write more of, IMO) and what KJ/Lili portray as opposed to clinging to specific canon from the comics. All that is to say I don’t think the comics are the “only reason” people may prefer Betty and Archie. But people like what they like at the end of the day for whatever reasons. Doesn’t really matter why.

[WhosThatGirl]

I guess. I see more of friendship with Lili and KJs playing of Betty and Archie. At least from the after the pilot. And I only mentioned the comics because that’s what I have seen in terms of why people think it needs to happen! Also yes tv Archie ten million times more likeable than comic Archie. So is veronica, honestly. That really needs to be mentioned. I’ve only seen bits and pieces but Veronica is not nice in the conics and she treats her supposed best friend Betty poorly. 

That said I don’t want betty and Archie because I don’t want the friendships between the core four to be a game of musical chairs. It’s not just my Bughead heart in this. I feel like all those friendships would be messed up if that were to happen.